Moving too fast....
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I certainly did, I'm less sure now because I've been put off by his demand for attention. Yes, I do when I'm with him but not this constant need for reassurance....my fault I guess for making him feel insecure!
Looks like it is over from your perspective.But if he doesn`t respond to what could be described as her needieness (not talking about the op here but in general) he is castigated for not being willing to commit or is a player.
Where is the guys equal ground?
The equal ground is non existent.
He may be castigated by the woman, but that’s not the right way to look at it. Does she stay with him? Men who are perceived as players are more attractive than needy men in the eyes of women.
While it is true but why I get annoyed at the man bashing/it is always his fault stuff I see.
Man bashing? I would have had the same response if it was a man in this situation. Do you think maybe it's because a majority of the posts in here are from women sharing their experiences and not the men?0 -
I certainly did, I'm less sure now because I've been put off by his demand for attention. Yes, I do when I'm with him but not this constant need for reassurance....my fault I guess for making him feel insecure!
Looks like it is over from your perspective.But if he doesn`t respond to what could be described as her needieness (not talking about the op here but in general) he is castigated for not being willing to commit or is a player.
Where is the guys equal ground?
The equal ground is non existent.
He may be castigated by the woman, but that’s not the right way to look at it. Does she stay with him? Men who are perceived as players are more attractive than needy men in the eyes of women.
While it is true but why I get annoyed at the man bashing/it is always his fault stuff I see.
Man bashing? I would have had the same response if it was a man in this situation. Do you think maybe it's because a majority of the posts in here are from women sharing their experiences and not the men?
Probably but what I see is that no matter the scenario somehow it always is presumed that anything bad or any failure in a relationship is always the mans fault.
No doubt sometimes it is but women are not blameless either.
The whole over thinking things and reaction to that when clearly errant is a good example.0 -
Well, here is the thing though: the men that get bashed (nice guys, jerks, losers, needy/clingy, you name it!) are definitely not the ones who act *smart*.
Probably but what I see is that no matter the scenario somehow it always is presumed that anything bad or any failure in a relationship is always the mans fault.
Man bashing? I would have had the same response if it was a man in this situation. Do you think maybe it's because a majority of the posts in here are from women sharing their experiences and not the men?
While it is true but why I get annoyed at the man bashing/it is always his fault stuff I see.
The equal ground is non existent.But if he doesn`t respond to what could be described as her needieness (not talking about the op here but in general) he is castigated for not being willing to commit or is a player.
Where is the guys equal ground?
He may be castigated by the woman, but that’s not the right way to look at it. Does she stay with him? Men who are perceived as players are more attractive than needy men in the eyes of women.
No doubt sometimes it is but women are not blameless either.
The whole over thinking things and reaction to that when clearly errant is a good example.
The men who act smart will basically not "fail" (or not significantly enough for the girl to be extremely annoyed about it), and will continue or end the relationship in their own terms which should be, at the end of the day, what every man should want.
It is possible with a minimum of intelligence and knowledge to avoid falling into one of these undesirable behaviours.
Also, you will see people are mainly posting complaints/griefs on forums (in general, maybe because they need input/support when they post), so even though it seems men are being bashed all the time here, I'm sure millions of women could post about their happy relationships with a normal man (should they want to).0 -
... it's not nice-guy syndrome. It's not gender specific. I've been in his shoes far too many times...
Just straight up tell him it's too much too fast, he needs to apply some brakes or drive on. Yeah, it sucks to say, sucks to hear... but the blatant truth is your best option.
You are 100% correct. I've been on both ends & it does suck either way. No need to add anything further as you've hit the nail squarely on the head0 -
I get those guys all the time. And it's not always the fact that they are being open or sounding needy that bothers me-- it's that every single time they poof away. They start off gung ho. After the first date I'm getting "I miss you" texts. Then it becomes "Is it weird that I miss you already?" And the most recent guy I have been seeing asked me on the first date "So are you my Girl?" And he did say the L word a couple times in recent weeks, but he didn't really say it in a serious way so I was like "no you don't". My guys, the first week or so they want to see me a few times and we are getting stuff going. So, I think maybe we are moving toward the couple thing and I'm cool with it. But, after that it's all talk (or text) and no action. I am a little gun shy but I'm also go with the flow and if I like a guy, it's kinda nice for them to show that they are into me but if they don't follow through on it and just say they want to see me or really like me, but whenever I try to get a plan or make a plan, they are too busy or tired....I just don't believe them anymore. If you want to see me, you will find a way. The guys on here have said that, too if I'm not mistaken.
Maybe your guy really is a romantic and will follow through but if you are a little thrown off, no harm in starting an open communication about expectations. But I can say in my experience, that my guys come on strong and then poof, poof away slowly but surely. I've learned to take such early proclamations with a grain of salt. Which sucks because I don't know which way to go and I don't want a guy to not tell me but I want him to mean it if he does and follow through.0 -
I get those guys all the time. And it's not always the fact that they are being open or sounding needy that bothers me-- it's that every single time they poof away. They start off gung ho. After the first date I'm getting "I miss you" texts. Then it becomes "Is it weird that I miss you already?" And the most recent guy I have been seeing asked me on the first date "So are you my Girl?" And he did say the L word a couple times in recent weeks, but he didn't really say it in a serious way so I was like "no you don't". My guys, the first week or so they want to see me a few times and we are getting stuff going. So, I think maybe we are moving toward the couple thing and I'm cool with it. But, after that it's all talk (or text) and no action. I am a little gun shy but I'm also go with the flow and if I like a guy, it's kinda nice for them to show that they are into me but if they don't follow through on it and just say they want to see me or really like me, but whenever I try to get a plan or make a plan, they are too busy or tired....I just don't believe them anymore. If you want to see me, you will find a way. The guys on here have said that, too if I'm not mistaken.
Maybe your guy really is a romantic and will follow through but if you are a little thrown off, no harm in starting an open communication about expectations. But I can say in my experience, that my guys come on strong and then poof, poof away slowly but surely. I've learned to take such early proclamations with a grain of salt. Which sucks because I don't know which way to go and I don't want a guy to not tell me but I want him to mean it if he does and follow through.
If it was a guy you really liked how happy would you be if he was aloof and somewhat distant?0 -
If it was a guy you really liked how happy would you be if he was aloof and somewhat distant?
But I'm not distant at all. That's why it's confusing. I respond back. I initiate conversations. I make pretty much ALL the plans if there are going to be plans. I just don't get all swoony because someone says they miss me. I've even said "I miss you, too". It just means nothing once there is no action showing that you miss me. I'm not going to chase someone down and force them to "prove it". lol0 -
Wow.
I haven't dated since before getting married 23 years ago.
After reading threads like this, I'm wondering how to not be the nice guy that I am, syndrome or not, without dating about a hundred women to work out all of the mistakes I'll make breaking rules I didn't know existed. But then, how do I do that without shooting myself in the foot as I come off as a player? The thought of wasting so much time conquering that learning curve is nauseating.
Granted, I wouldn't be saying I love anyone soon like the guy described by the OP, but I wouldn't be dating just for the hell of it, either. If the woman seemed like someone I was really interested in, and we seemed to be clicking, I would be hoping to see if it was going to develop into a more serious relationship all along the way. That's why I'm there to begin with. I would hope that if a woman was just there for fun and games or friendship, I'd know that from the start so I could move on, or at least act accordingly. I don't want to move fast, but wondering where the relationship is at or where it might or might not go will be on my mind from the moment I ask the woman out the first time. It's an ongoing thought process. That's not needy; that's someone who is taking the process seriously.
Sounds like I've got a lot of hard lessons ahead of me.0 -
The rules are, there are no rules. Dating sucks. One person's too little, is another person's too much. When you are dating you have to sift through hundreds of straws to find your needle. Balancing mutual needs or expectations clouded by prior experiences. Aye. All we can do is be ourselves and hope to find one who's glad for it.0
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Just communicate with him. Tell him what you want.0
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Geez, are you the first girl this guy's ever dated? Those must have been some really good dates. It's almost like he's trying to scare you off.0
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I love you after three dates? That **** cray.
^^^^^THIS! It has nothing to do with being a nice guy but I am sorry three dates is too fast to start declaring your love for someone.
Yeah. You might "feel it" for someone, but you don't know them yet well enough to know if you "love" them. I feel "love" feelings for someone quick, but I remind myself, "You haven't seen him stressed yet, you haven’t seen him angry yet, you haven't seen anything but that best foot we all put forward in the first couple of months."We have threads here where most ladies say that they will mentally move themselves into a relationship status almost immediately with a
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Now you all think he is effed up for doing it
Umm, isn't that what you guys think about women who do this?? That's what I pulled from the other threads ;-)in my experience, that my guys come on strong and then poof
My experience too! The faster and harder they fall for you, the more suddenly and unexplainably they poof!0 -
:noway:
This thread is going to give me nightmares.0 -
It is not "effed up" to decide after three dates that you want to be exclusive with someone. That's a little fast for my individual tastes, but some people do connect that quickly.
HOWEVER, it is completely "effed up" to drop the L bomb after the third date. That reeks of mental and emotional immaturity. I don't care how hot or sweet or awesome someone is, you do not love them after 3 dates. Telling them you do is certifiably insane.
And to everyone who has some story to tell about how they told someone they loved them after 5 minutes and they ended up getting married and are perfectly happy, well, congratulations on finding someone as crazy as you are. Obviously, at some point you did grow to love each other. But not after 5 minutes.0 -
It could be this guy is emotionally unstable, maybe desperate. You can't possibly love someone so soon. I mean, I feel many feelings for Smiley at this point but I'm aware I don't love him yet. Love takes time and though we've had things thrown at us early on, we're not out of the honeymoon stage yet.
I had this experience with Irish guy. He completely scared me away. When I met him, the "feelings" he felt weren't mutual. Yet with Smiley, the gushing and giddyness couldn't be prevented. Why is that?
I don't think Smiley is emotionally unstable at all. He's still normal from what I can tell. He didn't come on strong like Irish guy but he let me know very early on that I had pretty much rocked his world from the beginning. Why didn't it scare me the way other guy did? Just last night he was telling me how I've brightened up his world. I tease him because I wore a hot nice corral colored dress our 1st date. Instead of telling me how hot I looked (because I did!), he said "you look bright!" lol. So he said there was color in his world before but I just made it more colorful.
I accept his words. I love them actually because I feel the same way.
I just think it's interesting that any other guy would had freaked me out. Smiley asked me to stop seeing other guys after date 2. It was early but I felt the same way. There was no hesitation, no scared feelings, no "he's coming on way to strong" type of thoughts. It just felt natural and good. So there can be exceptions to this... or is it just me?0 -
Amazon .. I think it is the people involved. You have to want what that person is giving you. Obviously you and smiley share the same feelings towards one another and have the same desired outcome.
It all boils down to timing and chemistry. If something is off .. I don't believe it can work in the long run.0 -
That's a classic case of nice guy syndrome and why it fails to keep the ladies around.
Spot on. It does sound like it and is the normal for today. This chick must be pretty, the guy is a nice guy, and she has many options. Its typical of todays dating scene with women. If this guy was a good looking bad boy, this would be a different situation. People forget that times have changed. I remember back in the day when women complained because they couldnt find a good guy, back then, they kinda had a right, men cheated alot and didnt want to settle down. Now its the women who dont want to settle down and likes to play the field. Men are becoming more sensitive, caring about relationships, and wanting to marry early. Back then, women called guys players but now women do it and its called dating. Also, it was very common for men to fall in love within a few days, thats how alot of grandparents got married. That kind of romance is dead now. It seems now nice guys are a dime a dozen and they find them boring. Its simple, if women dont generally like nice guys, then stop going out with them. I dont know you and am not judging you, its just how things are now with lot of people now. There are alot of studies and stats that goes over this stuff.0 -
To me, if you feel love, then that's what it is.
Why does anyone need to define how long that takes?? Or what it encompasses?
It's not necessarily crazy or needy to have a feeling. And so what if it is?? Love IS crazy!! It makes you do the maddest things!! And love, by default, fulfills a human NEED!! Most people NEED to be loved and to love in return.
It's like why do you cry when someone dies that you've never met?? Or why do you get angry when cant find your keys??
Emotions are infinitely complex and indefineable. The only reason you're thinking this guy is a freak because society told you its 'not the done thing' combined with your security to hold back.
Sure, if the guy is freaking you out, or you dont feel the same, then that's cool. It's inevitable that couples move at a different pace. But Jeez, give the guy a break for just expressing himself..........:flowerforyou:0 -
My experience too! The faster and harder they fall for you, the more suddenly and unexplainably they poof!
PRE-Sactly! I wonder why this is? Perhaps the person constructs a fantasy of who we are & then when we fail to live up to it - POOF? That being said, I lost someone I really love by NOT responding quickly enough, so it works both ways. I am currently "in hope" with someone who has been really patient with me - three whole months - and the more I get to know his kindness toward me, the more I respect him for it. He told me immediately what his intentions were, I just didn't really believe him. But he has passed all my tests for having a good generous heart and a passion for helping and understanding others. I don't know what will happen between us, but I do know that I have found a loving heart and we will both be enriched by getting to know each other. There is a huge age difference between us, but I actually think HE is the more Adult one.0 -
To me, if you feel love, then that's what it is.
Why does anyone need to define how long that takes?? Or what it encompasses?
It's not necessarily crazy or needy to have a feeling. And so what if it is?? Love IS crazy!! It makes you do the maddest things!! And love, by default, fulfills a human NEED!! Most people NEED to be loved and to love in return.
It's like why do you cry when someone dies that you've never met?? Or why do you get angry when cant find your keys??
Emotions are infinitely complex and indefineable. The only reason you're thinking this guy is a freak because society told you its 'not the done thing' combined with your security to hold back.
Sure, if the guy is freaking you out, or you dont feel the same, then that's cool. It's inevitable that couples move at a different pace. But Jeez, give the guy a break for just expressing himself..........:flowerforyou:
Well said. I agree. I think alot of people like to define how long it takes because they like to control everything. I also know many women are scared of things that feel right too hence why they stay with guts who they argue with alot and get cheated on. As soon as they meet a guy who makes their heart happy, they run back into something they know isnt right. Dating is way too complicated these days.0 -
That's a classic case of nice guy syndrome and why it fails to keep the ladies around.
Spot on. It does sound like it and is the normal for today. This chick must be pretty, the guy is a nice guy, and she has many options. Its typical of todays dating scene with women. If this guy was a good looking bad boy, this would be a different situation. People forget that times have changed. I remember back in the day when women complained because they couldnt find a good guy, back then, they kinda had a right, men cheated alot and didnt want to settle down. Now its the women who dont want to settle down and likes to play the field. Men are becoming more sensitive, caring about relationships, and wanting to marry early. Back then, women called guys players but now women do it and its called dating. Also, it was very common for men to fall in love within a few days, thats how alot of grandparents got married. That kind of romance is dead now. It seems now nice guys are a dime a dozen and they find them boring. Its simple, if women dont generally like nice guys, then stop going out with them. I dont know you and am not judging you, its just how things are now with lot of people now. There are alot of studies and stats that goes over this stuff.
Women don't want guys that are too easy and not a challenge for them. Many complain about guys being too much of players and wishing that they were nice, regular guys. Then when there''s a run of the mill guy, there's not enough excitement.
Best thing for a guy is to exhibit the traits a woman wants: confidence, a take charge attitude, and a somewhat distant persona. Not good to be needy and come across as desperate because that doesn't keep them around. The goal should be to keep them wanting you if you're a guy (provided you want them).0 -
Exactly DM. Perfectly said.0
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Women don't want guys that are too easy and not a challenge for them. Many complain about guys being too much of players and wishing that they were nice, regular guys. Then when there''s a run of the mill guy, there's not enough excitement.
Best thing for a guy is to exhibit the traits a woman wants: confidence, a take charge attitude, and a somewhat distant persona. Not good to be needy and come across as desperate because that doesn't keep them around. The goal should be to keep them wanting you if you're a guy (provided you want them).
Well, sorta. Women want excitement, but not so sure about the challenge. I think you can keep a person by being yourself, when you're comfortable and confident. My way of keeping a woman is to do things for her that she knows she won't get elsewhere.0 -
Women don't want guys that are too easy and not a challenge for them. Many complain about guys being too much of players and wishing that they were nice, regular guys. Then when there''s a run of the mill guy, there's not enough excitement.
Best thing for a guy is to exhibit the traits a woman wants: confidence, a take charge attitude, and a somewhat distant persona. Not good to be needy and come across as desperate because that doesn't keep them around. The goal should be to keep them wanting you if you're a guy (provided you want them).
Well, sorta. Women want excitement, but not so sure about the challenge. I think you can keep a person by being yourself, when you're comfortable and confident. My way of keeping a woman is to do things for her that she knows she won't get elsewhere.
I've just said in another thread that attraction is much more than this bad guy/good guy thing that you seem taken with DM. It's about meeting someone that compliments you. I know some seriously boring women that wouldnt want a guy to excite them out of their comfort zone at all!! One size does NOT fit all!! :noway:
Perhaps the girls you're attracted to are the one's looking for exciting, challenging guys? And if this guy that they want isnt you, why are you trying to be elusive and exciting and distant, when that's not your character?? Or perhaps it is, I dont know you....lol
But anyway, all i'm saying is this 'bad' guy you keep describing is not in the least bit desirable to me. I want a chatty, compassionate, sexy, thoughtful, composed, attentive guy who can cook and has a foot fetish!!! :laugh:0 -
My way of keeping a woman is to do things for her that she knows she won't get elsewhere.
oooh la la !!!! :devil:0 -
That's a classic case of nice guy syndrome and why it fails to keep the ladies around.
Spot on. It does sound like it and is the normal for today. This chick must be pretty, the guy is a nice guy, and she has many options. Its typical of todays dating scene with women. If this guy was a good looking bad boy, this would be a different situation. People forget that times have changed. I remember back in the day when women complained because they couldnt find a good guy, back then, they kinda had a right, men cheated alot and didnt want to settle down. Now its the women who dont want to settle down and likes to play the field. Men are becoming more sensitive, caring about relationships, and wanting to marry early. Back then, women called guys players but now women do it and its called dating. Also, it was very common for men to fall in love within a few days, thats how alot of grandparents got married. That kind of romance is dead now. It seems now nice guys are a dime a dozen and they find them boring. Its simple, if women dont generally like nice guys, then stop going out with them. I dont know you and am not judging you, its just how things are now with lot of people now. There are alot of studies and stats that goes over this stuff.
Women don't want guys that are too easy and not a challenge for them. Many complain about guys being too much of players and wishing that they were nice, regular guys. Then when there''s a run of the mill guy, there's not enough excitement.
Best thing for a guy is to exhibit the traits a woman wants: confidence, a take charge attitude, and a somewhat distant persona. Not good to be needy and come across as desperate because that doesn't keep them around. The goal should be to keep them wanting you if you're a guy (provided you want them).
You already know I agree. Well said brother. From what my female friends say, it seems the problem is most women really dont know what they want themselves. They sometimes think they do but then realize it isnt what they wanted. Their minds are always changing because they follow their feelings and emotions. They like bad boys because they feel dangerous but safe ath the saem time, they like the feeling those type gives them. They give them excitment, makes them feel like they can do anything, they like the danger, love having a man most women want *bad boys are more wanted and desired then the good guys), confidence *let be honest, bad boys are more apt to be in the front dancing and mingling and the good guys are shy in bakc in a corner hidden), and they feel protected. Im a guy and try to understand how they think but to me I guess its like comparing sky diving to going bowling, which one makes you go wow, that was exciting and an awesome feeling.0 -
So... The love of your life ("love at first sight" man), is he like that with you? (I mean: chatty, compassionate, sexy, thoughtful, composed, attentive guy).I've just said in another thread that attraction is much more than this bad guy/good guy thing that you seem taken with DM.
Perhaps the girls you're attracted to are the one's looking for exciting, challenging guys? And if this guy that they want isnt you, why are you trying to be elusive and exciting and distant, when that's not your character?? Or perhaps it is, I dont know you....lol
But anyway, all i'm saying is this 'bad' guy you keep describing is not in the least bit desirable to me. I want a chatty, compassionate, sexy, thoughtful, composed, attentive guy who can cook and has a foot fetish!!! :laugh:
I thought he didn't respond to your solicitations YET you feel attracted to him like you never had before. Sounds to me like this is a "challenge", and that it fits what has been said so far.
Bad guys are challenges, this is why they are attractive. They keep women on their toes. And I don't mean the bad guy who beats his woman when he comes home (at least, he shouldn't beat her initially...).
I mean the man who has a "dangerous/adventurous" side (one day at work, you hear your mobile ringing "Hey it's me, I'm downstairs! Come on my motorbike we're going somewhere right now" => the perspective that the man is going to get you out of a dull life), the man who can ignore you and put you in place when you need to be (he is THE challenge, the thing you can't really have, this is where all the nice guys fail I'm afraid), the strong guy with the outside world who can still show his nice side just for you (aren't you flattered?).
About the bad guy who would steal/beat the woman (that is *real* bad behaviour), the amazing thing is that most women will cope with that in the hope that "he can change" or "this is just a bad pass" or find excuses for this kind of behaviour in general (this however can normally only happen at a later stage of the relationship, not initially thus the need for the guy to hide this behaviour or even simply develop these patterns later in the relationship).
This is what I mean by women are "submissive" or "align with the male goal" (submissive to me = supportive to an extreme, renouncing to all pride and self esteem for supporting someone is not being supportive, it's being submissive). That's when you know you're trapped in a relationship.
Hope that all women who became submissive got their cookie in the end yet I don't know why but I seriously doubt it...
Anyway, the good kind of "bad guys" are a bit like John Travolta in Grease (I'd assume since I've never seen the movie, but it looks like the crappy kind of story with a nice girl/bad guy for which all women would fall for).
DM is right, he just summarized the concept.
Bad-bad (outside/inside) guys fail to keep the women though, this is true. Nice-nice (outside/inside) guys fail. Bad-nice (outside/inside) guys don't fail to keep the women though and they are attracted like flies.0 -
Just to throw something out there because I like to do that...
How much of the Mr Excitement,badass guy appeal is actually a desire for a lady to elevate her status among her peers?
The same situation applies for the guy seeking a trophy wife/gf except I don`t think any one questions the motives there.
I would propose that perceived social positioning among females is 1000 times more important to them then to most guys.
All "not every male/female" disclaimers apply.0 -
So... The love of your life ("love at first sight" man), is he like that with you? (I mean: chatty, compassionate, sexy, thoughtful, composed, attentive guy).
I thought he didn't respond to your solicitations YET you feel attracted to him like you never had before. Sounds to me like this is a "challenge", and that it fits what has been said so far.
Yes, he was all those things, and more. Dont ask me how I knew this in 10 minutes of meeting him, because I have no clue!! In fact, if I had the answer to that I'd rich...... :laugh:
Bad guys are challenges, this is why they are attractive. They keep women on their toes. And I don't mean the bad guy who beats his woman when he comes home (at least, he shouldn't beat her initially...).
A guy that is exciting and adventurous and challenging, isnt necessarily 'bad' IMO. I think we just disagree with the definition here. If you have the 'bad guy' and the 'nice guy' at either end of the spectrum then there are millions of guys that fall somewhere in between? The John Travolta you're talking about isn't a 'bad' guy, he's just guy with a leather jacket and bunch of peers he needs to show his macho side to!!! :laugh:
By definition, a 'bad' guy to me is an unreliable, unromantic, thoughtless, probably a womaniser, probably a drunk, he doesnt answer texts cos he's too busy planning how to get out of a date and go to the pub with his mates, he cheats and he lies!!! He may very well have charm and generosity, be sexy and exciting and like to cook, and yes he's 'challenging' but his underlying behavior isnt trustworthy. Of course that keeps you on your toes cos you have no clue what he's up to!!
THAT guy is not for me!! But some women do find him a 'challenge' for sure. They see him as tame-able........whereas I just see him as a jerk!0 -
Just to throw something out there because I like to do that...
How much of the Mr Excitement,badass guy appeal is actually a desire for a lady to elevate her status among her peers?
The same situation applies for the guy seeking a trophy wife/gf except I don`t think any one questions the motives there.
I would propose that perceived social positioning among females is 1000 times more important to them then to most guys.
All "not every male/female" disclaimers apply.
No idea Carl. I'm still not seeing the appeal of this exciting badass guy! :noway:0
This discussion has been closed.