50 Shades of Grey
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So, do we all agree that a public library should not provide pornography, though? Books nor movies?
I'm not in favour of a public library stocking Playboy etc, or films made explicitly for the 'adult' market. But that's about where I feel that sort of ban should end. It becomes too difficult to define the line between what is 'pornographic' and what is simply 'sexually explicit' (and yes, I do believe there is a difference). The sort of restrictions being suggested would eliminate the provision of too many films and books in which sexually explicit material is only a part of a whole, rather than the primary purpose.0 -
I guess I'm just confused on why it's so hard to call pornography what it is. Come on; there's a huge difference between romance novels and Playboy magazine, for instance.Then they shouldn't have any romance novels or VC Andrews, either.
One has photos and one's just descriptions. Romance novels are pretty racy.
And have you ever read Flowers in the Attic?0 -
Okay. So you don't support the banning of any types of books, magazines, or videos in public libraries?I still don't agree with it. A lot of books, even the classics have what people could consider 'pornographic.'
My issue is what people consider 'Pornographic.' If 50 shades of Gray is considered porn than I know a lot books that should be banned.0 -
No. Ha! I remember wanting to so badly when I was little, but my mom wouldn't let me. I think I was in junior high when it was popular.And have you ever read Flowers in the Attic?0 -
No. Ha! I remember wanting to so badly when I was little, but my mom wouldn't let me. I think I was in junior high when it was popular.And have you ever read Flowers in the Attic?
Two words: Incestuous rape.0 -
I guess I'm just confused on why it's so hard to call pornography what it is. Come on; there's a huge difference between romance novels and Playboy magazine, for instance.Then they shouldn't have any romance novels or VC Andrews, either.
As with many things, there is a lot of grey area for what people would define as pornograhic.
Some books that people have tried to have banned for being pornagraphic:
The Catcher In The Rye
1984
Anne Franke's Diary
Do you consider all the above to be pornographic? It may be easy to draw a distinction between Mother Goose Nursery Rhymes and Hustler magazine, but whose subjective opinion will decide on the things that don't fall into one extreme or the other?0 -
No wonder she wouldn't allow it!Two words: Incestuous rape.0 -
No wonder she wouldn't allow it!Two words: Incestuous rape.
And it's not even the worst of her books.0 -
*not wanting to derail.0
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The context is the celebration of marital love not focusing on sex for the sake of sex.
Posted something, then changed my mind, as I don't wish to offend. Can't delete the post, though.0 -
Not that I would know out of personal experience, but I doubt any of the above books are sold in adult book stores. I wonder why. Not because *I* don't consider them pornographic, but possibly because the adult book industry or pornography business doesn't???The Catcher In The Rye
1984
Anne Franke's Diary
Do you consider all the above to be pornographic? It may be easy to draw a distinction between Mother Goose Nursery Rhymes and Hustler magazine, but whose subjective opinion will decide on the things that don't fall into one extreme or the other?0 -
I realize my answer would open up a can of worms. Kinda why I didn't want to address that specific comment. I probably shouldn't have.Posted something, then changed my mind, as I don't wish to offend. Can't delete the post, though.0 -
Not that I would know out of personal experience, but I doubt any of the above books are sold in adult book stores. I wonder why. Not because *I* don't consider them pornographic, but possibly because the adult book industry or pornography business doesn't???
A book doesn't have be available in an adult book store for some people to decry it as being pornographic or having pornographic content.0 -
Not that I would know out of personal experience, but I doubt any of the above books are sold in adult book stores. I wonder why. Not because *I* don't consider them pornographic, but possibly because the adult book industry or pornography business doesn't???The Catcher In The Rye
1984
Anne Franke's Diary
Do you consider all the above to be pornographic? It may be easy to draw a distinction between Mother Goose Nursery Rhymes and Hustler magazine, but whose subjective opinion will decide on the things that don't fall into one extreme or the other?
50 Shades etc. is sold in mainstream bookshops and is to be made into a mainstream film. Perhaps also because the adult book/film industry, as well as the majority of the mainstream sellers do not consider it pornographic.0 -
Meh. My point is that we all know what "real" porn is. Throwing out pieces of literature in a discussion about modern day porn is just deflect from the current conversation, IMO.A book doesn't have be available in an adult book store for some people to decry it as being pornographic or having pornographic content.0 -
Making my point about the other books.50 Shades etc. is sold in mainstream bookshops and is to be made into a mainstream film. Perhaps also because the adult book/film industry, as well as the majority of the mainstream sellers do not consider it pornographic.0 -
Making my point about the other books.50 Shades etc. is sold in mainstream bookshops and is to be made into a mainstream film. Perhaps also because the adult book/film industry, as well as the majority of the mainstream sellers do not consider it pornographic.
Yes, but also underlining that this particular series is perhaps not as 'pornographic' as certain media outlets would have the public believe.
Why do I always have to log off just as things are getting interesting. Time zones - pah!0 -
And that may be true. I haven't read it, so I don't know. I'm just saying if it really is considered porn, it shouldn't be in a public library, IMO.Yes, but also underlining that this particular series is perhaps not as 'pornographic' as certain media outlets would have the public believe.0 -
Meh. My point is that we all know what "real" porn is. Throwing out pieces of literature in a discussion about modern day porn is just deflect from the current conversation, IMO.A book doesn't have be available in an adult book store for some people to decry it as being pornographic or having pornographic content.
Hardly. You are dismissing that a lot of literature has been classified as being pornographic by some, with attempts to ban it. The line isn't as clear cut as you would have us believe.0 -
No....don't go!Why do I always have to log off just as things are getting interesting. Time zones - pah!
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Meh. My point is that we all know what "real" porn is. Throwing out pieces of literature in a discussion about modern day porn is just deflect from the current conversation, IMO.A book doesn't have be available in an adult book store for some people to decry it as being pornographic or having pornographic content.
What's porn to us will be classic literature to a later generation (um -- Lolita and Lady Chatterly's Love to name two, and even much of Ernest Hemingway's work). From what I've heard 50 Shades is very poorly written, so as a novel it probably won't survive the test of time, but the subject matter is a different story.0 -
I haven't read this nor know much of anything about it and would have to in order to make a decision but ohhhhh man- the librarian in me is conflicted anyhow.
If we are strictly talking libraries there's an important yet very grey line between banning (or censoring) and "selection."
Here's an older commentary on the subject of censoring versus selection:
http://www.ala.org/offices/oif/basics/notcensorship
and an article about this book being pulled by one librarian calling it straight-up porn:
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20120508/NEWS01/305080004/Brevard-libraries-take-another-peek-banned-50-Shades-Grey-?odyssey=nav|head0 -
I haven't read this nor know much of anything about it and would have to in order to make a decision but ohhhhh man- the librarian in me is conflicted anyhow.
If we are strictly talking libraries (especially public in this case) there's an important yet very grey line between banning and "selection."
I think the issue is public libraries, not school libraries and there is a difference. I wouldn't support this being selected for a school library any more than I think Harlequin romances belong in school libraries. There isn't really any educational value to them. They're (what I've been told, anyway) poorly written and they're pretty much brain candy kind of books. What would be the purpose of teaching them in, say, a high school English class? But I think 99.9% of books -- and maybe even 100%, but I'm sure someone could point to something I wouldn't support -- should be available in a public library.0 -
Meh. My point is that we all know what "real" porn is. Throwing out pieces of literature in a discussion about modern day porn is just deflect from the current conversation, IMO.
My point is that you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone has different standards and I'm not comfortable leaving anyone as final judge and arbiter of what is available for me to read.
Everyone who supports banning/censorship always says "We KNOW what porn is" and then you end up with banned books like Catcher in the Rye (a personal favorite), 1984 and the like. Now if we all KNOW what porn is why do these books always make the list?
Distrust anyone trying to control the information you are allowed access to. Or as Stephen King put it during a speech he gave at a Banned Books Week conference, "Any book that your parents or teachers tell you you can't read, go out and IMMEDIATELY get your hands on that book. That's where they're hiding all the information they don't want you to know."0 -
I'm not sure if we're still talking about this specific book or not. I have granted that if this book isn't pornography, then I don't see why it should be banned in a public library. If it is pornography, like magazines and videos that are promoted as such, then it shouldn't be in a public library.Distrust anyone trying to control the information you are allowed access to. Or as Stephen King put it during a speech he gave at a Banned Books Week conference, "Any book that your parents or teachers tell you you can't read, go out and IMMEDIATELY get your hands on that book. That's where they're hiding all the information they don't want you to know."
I'm grateful to my parents for restricting what I could read at certain ages (and I just learned of a new one that my mom never let me read, and now thankful I didn't). Junk in, junk out.0 -
I'm not sure if we're still talking about this specific book or not. I have granted that if this book isn't pornography, then I don't see why it should be banned in a public library. If it is pornography, like magazines and videos that are promoted as such, then it shouldn't be in a public library.Distrust anyone trying to control the information you are allowed access to. Or as Stephen King put it during a speech he gave at a Banned Books Week conference, "Any book that your parents or teachers tell you you can't read, go out and IMMEDIATELY get your hands on that book. That's where they're hiding all the information they don't want you to know."
I'm grateful to my parents for restricting what I could read at certain ages (and I just learned of a new one that my mom never let me read, and now thankful I didn't). Junk in, junk out.
I didn't say Flowers in the Attic was junk. I said it has explicit sex scenes in it and if we're going to ban 50, then Andrews should be banned as well. Most people would say Andrews should not be banned.
VC Andrews was a very good writer and her books were enjoyable. I'm glad I was never told I couldn't read something.0 -
I think the issue is public libraries, not school libraries and there is a difference. I wouldn't support this being selected for a school library any more than I think Harlequin romances belong in school libraries. There isn't really any educational value to them. They're (what I've been told, anyway) poorly written and they're pretty much brain candy kind of books. What would be the purpose of teaching them in, say, a high school English class? But I think 99.9% of books -- and maybe even 100%, but I'm sure someone could point to something I wouldn't support -- should be available in a public library.
I agree - that's why I edited out public in my response since that caters to all.
It's dangerous - like others have mentioned, a few people (parents, librarians, and so on) who "know" how to classify something as it if were their bookshelf at home and have influence on decisions can create havoc and in some cases, chilling effects..0 -
If this is 'porn' then so are all the Harlequin romance novels too. I've read those, and read bits of this book, and both go into graphic sexual detail.
Besides, if public libraries are places where people can use the internet to watch porn, then banning a BOOK seems a bit silly.
Either way, don't like it, don't read it. Pay attention to what your kids are doing if you don't want them to read it either.0 -
I'm not sure if we're still talking about this specific book or not. I have granted that if this book isn't pornography, then I don't see why it should be banned in a public library. If it is pornography, like magazines and videos that are promoted as such, then it shouldn't be in a public library.Distrust anyone trying to control the information you are allowed access to. Or as Stephen King put it during a speech he gave at a Banned Books Week conference, "Any book that your parents or teachers tell you you can't read, go out and IMMEDIATELY get your hands on that book. That's where they're hiding all the information they don't want you to know."
I'm grateful to my parents for restricting what I could read at certain ages (and I just learned of a new one that my mom never let me read, and now thankful I didn't). Junk in, junk out.
I didn't say Flowers in the Attic was junk. I said it has explicit sex scenes in it and if we're going to ban 50, then Andrews should be banned as well. Most people would say Andrews should not be banned.
VC Andrews was a very good writer and her books were enjoyable. I'm glad I was never told I couldn't read something.
I agree and read Flowers in the Attic when I was in junior high - I wouldn't say it scarred me.
Another fantastic writer is Diana Gabaldon. If anyone has read any part of her Outlander series, there are some explicit sex scenes in there, but there is so, so much more than just that.0 -
If this is 'porn' then so are all the Harlequin romance novels too. I've read those, and read bits of this book, and both go into graphic sexual detail.
Besides, if public libraries are places where people can use the internet to watch porn, then banning a BOOK seems a bit silly.
Either way, don't like it, don't read it. Pay attention to what your kids are doing if you don't want them to read it either.
Agreed! Maybe 50 could be classified as smut? Like Harlequin romance novels? (I've not read it).
I don't think porn should be banned from the library, I just think most people that want porn won't try to find it there. Maybe if we brought it into the libraries people some people would expand.
Honestly, even porn has value so why not have it where it can be accessed? People are so down on extramarital affairs and why marriages die - maybe they need porn? :laugh:0
This discussion has been closed.