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Amendment 1 in North Carolina

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Replies

  • EmCarroll1990
    EmCarroll1990 Posts: 2,830 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....

    And so begins the start of a new thread...
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    If you don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.
    Let's not make this too easy for those who want to debate the issue. I see these types of quotes often, "Don't want an abortion; don't get one", "Don't want gay marriage; don't get gay married", but those just open it up to rebuttals such as, "Don't like drunk drivers; don't get drunk and drive", "Don't like child molestation; don't molest a child". I get what you're saying. You're saying gay marriage doesn't affect anyone outside of that union, but I don't like those types of quotes.

    Sorry.........just trying to get a real debate going in here since everyone else is afraid of us.....:wink:
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.
    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    You totally beat me to it!
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.
    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    You totally beat me to it!

    :drinker:
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,927 Member
    I'd like to invite everyone to visit Washington, or move here! Same sex unions welcome.

    We would love to have you live here, start up successful businesses, form families or not, spend money, add to our tax base, etc.

    I left the South thirty years ago and it's still surprising to me when I go back there to find how much more uptight they are.
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    When I wrote to my senators to oppose CISPA, I wrote from their viewpoint because I knew that appealing to MY demographic wouldn't change their mind. You have to use their own thought processes and figure out a way to make your point in a way they HAVE to agree to it. So, anyway, that's my piece. Don't hate NC, they should be admired for holding out so long, but chastised for their decision. Chastise them not by name calling, but by approaching the issue from their stance and exploiting the flaws in their logic in a way they would agree with.
    While I agree with the sentiment, you can't use logic to talk somebody out of a position they didn't arrive at using logic..
  • DoingItNow2012
    DoingItNow2012 Posts: 394 Member
    Man looking at this same thread in the chit chat section makes me love our little debate group even more.

    Not NC but related:

    The Missouri House of Representatives after several times rejecting "sexual orientation" as one of the legally prohibited categories of discrimation, managed to find another category in March (to join race, religion, etc.) that IS deserving of specila protection. Licensed concealed-weapons-carriers.

    So it's cool to discriminate against gays, "it's their choice after all". But I guess in Missouri they're born with those guns they need to carry around.

    Democracy, sometimes it sucks.

    wow, really?
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
    Being against something shouldn't be reason enough to legislate to ban it.

    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it, why? - because it's not the place of the state or any government to dictate preference (in situations in which others are not objectivly harmed) - neither should the power reside within individuals (or a collective to over-ride the autonomy of others - again in situations in which nobody is actually harmed.

    Which applies to female genital mutilation, gay marriage & that poor Snooki analogy. (Which I may add - reductio ad ridiculum)
  • atomiclauren
    atomiclauren Posts: 689 Member


    ‏
    @thinkprogress
    FACT: Last time North Carolina amended their constitution on marriage it was to ban interracial marriage

    AsavFDbCIAIoTpv.jpg
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
    Being against something shouldn't be reason enough to legislate to ban it.

    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it, why? - because it's not the place of the state or any government to dictate preference (in situations in which others are not objectivly harmed) - neither should the power reside within individuals (or a collective to over-ride the autonomy of others - again in situations in which nobody is actually harmed.

    Which applies to female genital mutilation, gay marriage & that poor Snooki analogy. (Which I may add - reductio ad ridiculum)

    How about routine male circumcision? That causes objective harm.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it
    Yet, many people have banned religion.
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,375 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...

    There could be an argument that Snooki reproducing could cause objective harm. Just sayin :wink:
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member


    ‏
    @thinkprogress
    FACT: Last time North Carolina amended their constitution on marriage it was to ban interracial marriage

    AsavFDbCIAIoTpv.jpg

    That's what makes me chuckle about these laws they pass.

    Forever huh? You sure about that?

    What is written can be erased.
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
    Being against something shouldn't be reason enough to legislate to ban it.

    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it, why? - because it's not the place of the state or any government to dictate preference (in situations in which others are not objectivly harmed) - neither should the power reside within individuals (or a collective to over-ride the autonomy of others - again in situations in which nobody is actually harmed.

    Which applies to female genital mutilation, gay marriage & that poor Snooki analogy. (Which I may add - reductio ad ridiculum)

    How about routine male circumcision? That causes objective harm.
    Why would I feel any different about male circumcision?, it's mutilating the genital of another person without consent.

    The fact it's considered acceptable in some countries just shows a lack of social development.

    You seem to be missing the point, causes objective harm - it's not that complicated.
  • katatak1
    katatak1 Posts: 261 Member
    When I wrote to my senators to oppose CISPA, I wrote from their viewpoint because I knew that appealing to MY demographic wouldn't change their mind. You have to use their own thought processes and figure out a way to make your point in a way they HAVE to agree to it. So, anyway, that's my piece. Don't hate NC, they should be admired for holding out so long, but chastised for their decision. Chastise them not by name calling, but by approaching the issue from their stance and exploiting the flaws in their logic in a way they would agree with.
    While I agree with the sentiment, you can't use logic to talk somebody out of a position they didn't arrive at using logic..

    I agree. I'm not saying use logic to refute them, I'm saying use *their* logic to refute them. So find an argument that appeals to their sensibilities. The most successful attempt to do just that in NC was the argument about how it would damage the rights of women for domestic abuse. Objectively, this isn't really true. There would still be protections in place for these women if you dig deep enough. But, by bringing arguments that most people will agree with and exploiting flaws that fit with their world view (most people agree domestic abuse is ****ed), you will be more successful at changing their mind than if you just yelled "stupid ****s, everybody deserves marriage." This strategy simply doesn't work. I used "big government, big brother" type arguments with my Senator instead of 4th amendment arguments. I said "I, like you, want to see a small government. This bill opens up the door for more spending and more regulations." Say your piece in a way that fits their world view.
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    How about routine male circumcision? That causes objective harm.

    We had this argument right? You may want to do a search because I swear I remember arguing against hacking bits off babies.. if not I'll gladly do it again.
  • Sockimobi
    Sockimobi Posts: 541 Member
    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it
    Yet, many people have banned religion.

    Quote mining much? :noway:

    Which countries have banned religion - I need to move there!
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    Personally i'm against religion - but I don't seek to ban it
    Yet, many people have banned religion.
    Who has banned religion exactly in America?
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    Quote mining much? :noway:
    Quote mining????
    Which countries have banned religion - I need to move there!
    Our country has banned religion in public schools, courthouses, etc. That was my point.
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    How about routine male circumcision? That causes objective harm.

    We had this argument right? You may want to do a search because I swear I remember arguing against hacking bits off babies.. if not I'll gladly do it again.

    I wasn't arguing in favor of circumcision, I was making a point...
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    Who has banned religion exactly in America?
    What's the big deal if I quote what I want to address? Religion has been banned places in America.
  • Bahet
    Bahet Posts: 1,254 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
    That causes EVERYONE harm. :laugh:

    FTR, I didn't write that "10 Reasons" post. Stolen from FB.
  • Roadie2000
    Roadie2000 Posts: 1,801 Member
    If you're against something that doesn't effect you, get a life.

    I'm against genital mutilation of African girls.... that doesn't really affect me....
    Female genital mutilation causes objective harm, gay marriage doesn't.

    I'm against Snooki being a celebrity.... that doesn't really affect me or cause objective harm...
    Yes, but there are no laws about it. I'm not sure if you are trying to make valid points or just being difficult.
  • opus649
    opus649 Posts: 633 Member
    Yes, but there are no laws about it. I'm not sure if you are trying to make valid points or just being difficult.

    Both?
  • EmCarroll1990
    EmCarroll1990 Posts: 2,830 Member
    Who has banned religion exactly in America?
    What's the big deal if I quote what I want to address? Religion has been banned places in America.

    Oh America! This is why in Canada, we have Catholic schools and Public schools.
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    Who has banned religion exactly in America?
    What's the big deal if I quote what I want to address? Religion has been banned places in America.
    Banning religious indoctrination isn't the same as banning religion.

    Nobody is stopping you from practicing whatever belief system you have at home, just no specific religion should be given preference in court houses or schools.

    You do know a little about your own constitution do you not? - the separation of church & state & all that... besides - it's a non-sequitur anyway, because even if religion was banned (Which it isn't) it would still have no impact on how unjust this specific law is.
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89 Member
    How about routine male circumcision? That causes objective harm.

    We had this argument right? You may want to do a search because I swear I remember arguing against hacking bits off babies.. if not I'll gladly do it again.

    I wasn't arguing in favor of circumcision, I was making a point...
    Yes, but not a pertinent one.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    Nobody is stopping you from practicing whatever believe system you have at home, just no specific religion should be given preference in court houses or schools.

    You do know a little about your own constitution do you not? - the separation of church & state & all that... besides - it's a non-sequitur anyway, because even if religion was banned (Which it isn't) it would still have no impact on how unjust this specific law is.
    Chill. I was just being sarcastic since no one in here was actually debating the issue.
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