Amendment 1 in North Carolina
Replies
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Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
That much is unclear. Thomas Jefferson is famously identified as agnostic/atheist.. This really isn't true. He was a Christian man who loved Jesus. Abraham Lincoln, I could argue was at least agnostic. But the big thing is that they were tired of having a specific religion forced upon them. That's what they wanted to prevent- anyone in power forcing others to abide by their personal religious beliefs. On that face alone, any religious argument against gay marriage (or anything, really) *should* be moot in the states.0 -
U r gonna argue witha straight face that the tenents of the constitution
r not based on christianity?
IT'S RIGHT THERE IN PLAIN ENGLISH. Why are you even arguing this? If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.0 -
Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
You're right. The people at the time also came from nations where christianity was mostly the only religion they were exposed to, so some lines got fuzzied. People commonly misinterpet this as intentional christianity.0 -
If it were up to me there'd be no such thing as a marriage license. It'd be civil unions across the board for everybody. All equal under the eyes of the law and all qualifying for the same federal rights.
Ya wanna get "married"? Fine, go do it, but in order to qualify for the rights and privileges acorded to partners in a civil union you need to file for one.
I think and have always thought that the word marriage is the sticking point. Get rid of it.
This^^^ This^^^ and double this^^^^0 -
Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
It's completely irrelevant what faith they were. It only matters what the law says, and freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion are basic tenants upon which America was founded. I find it highly significant that they chose to put this particular guarantee at the first amendment not the second third or fourth. In fact, it's the first line of the first amendment.
This makes any religion-based argument against gay-marriage moot upfront. It's unconstitutional.0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me0 -
Banning religious indoctrination isn't the same as banning religion.
What's the big deal if I quote what I want to address? Religion has been banned places in America.Who has banned religion exactly in America?
Nobody is stopping you from practicing whatever belief system you have at home, just no specific religion should be given preference in court houses or schools.
You do know a little about your own constitution do you not? - the separation of church & state & all that... besides - it's a non-sequitur anyway, because even if religion was banned (Which it isn't) it would still have no impact on how unjust this specific law is.
It's too bad Washington and Lincoln didn't know about the separation of church and state, I'm positive they wouldn't have publicly prayed during their time in office. Pretty sure the Constitution doesn't say "keep your religion at home" either.
I do find all of the arguments for ssm interesting. I've learned a lot from all the derp derp homophobe! derp derp redneck! derp derp derp religion sucks!....
Real valid stuff.0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
This from the guy who's taking his ball and going home.0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
that was boring0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
Guess you couldn't cut it with Katatak, it is quite obvious she is out of your league as far as debates go. If you really got something to say and aren't cowering away because you don't have the knowledge to make good points then say it. Think on that, oh and I think we all knew you would do this as soon as people stopped messing around and got serious with you0 -
That much is unclear. Thomas Jefferson is famously identified as agnostic/atheist.. This really isn't true. He was a Christian man who loved Jesus. Abraham Lincoln, I could argue was at least agnostic. But the big thing is that they were tired of having a specific religion forced upon them. That's what they wanted to prevent- anyone in power forcing others to abide by their personal religious beliefs. On that face alone, any religious argument against gay marriage (or anything, really) *should* be moot in the states.
Kat I love you honey but we may need to debate over this one, TJ was as atheist as you could be back then. The man REWROTE the bible and took out all of Jesus's miracles and the resurrection! I don't see how he could be considered Christian and not believe in the resurrection. As the believers will tell you, it's kiiind of a big deal to them.0 -
Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
It's completely irrelevant what faith they were. It only matters what the law says, and freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion are basic tenants upon which America was founded. I find it highly significant that they chose to put this particular guarantee at the first amendment not the second third or fourth. In fact, it's the first line of the first amendment.
This makes any religion-based argument against gay-marriage moot upfront. It's unconstitutional.
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. The state simply cannot start a church, end of story. It has no bearing on whether or not a student would like to pray, or a politician for that matter.
What I find so hilarious is that the argument about ssm is that it harms no one, yet listening to someone pray is toxic.
I love you libs, no matter how hypocritical you are.0 -
Banning religious indoctrination isn't the same as banning religion.
What's the big deal if I quote what I want to address? Religion has been banned places in America.Who has banned religion exactly in America?
Nobody is stopping you from practicing whatever belief system you have at home, just no specific religion should be given preference in court houses or schools.
You do know a little about your own constitution do you not? - the separation of church & state & all that... besides - it's a non-sequitur anyway, because even if religion was banned (Which it isn't) it would still have no impact on how unjust this specific law is.
It's too bad Washington and Lincoln didn't know about the separation of church and state, I'm positive they wouldn't have publicly prayed during their time in office. Pretty sure the Constitution doesn't say "keep your religion at home" either.
I do find all of the arguments for ssm interesting. I've learned a lot from all the derp derp homophobe! derp derp redneck! derp derp derp religion sucks!....
Real valid stuff.
yea sure... it doesn't say "leave your religion at home" but it's generally agreed upon that your right to religious freedom should not infringe on the rights of others...0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
Is it against the rules if I point out the breathtaking incoherence of this post?0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
did you type that with your nose?
0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
Well... I tried to do that with you, but you didn't want to go along with it and have a respectful discourse. So, since you *want* me to act like a little kid so you can feel better about your beliefs and ignore the fact that they have no foundation in the law... I'll go ahead and be childish.OK, I'm checking out. This is the "if you're not pro-gay you're stupid, a bigot, or uninformed" thread
Here's a final thought, I understand and empathize with you feeling wronged and I'm pro civil unions, but you do your case a disservice in how you react to those who have a difference of opinions.... If you really want to "win," grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they can't play in the sandbox.
Trust me
FTFY, dumb@ss
EDIT: found even more errors I had to go back and fix.0 -
Our country has banned religion in public schools, courthouses, etc. That was my point.Which countries have banned religion - I need to move there!
That's not quite true. This country has banned the forcing of religion upon people in public schools and courthouses. Any individual is free to pray as they see fit in a public school or courthouse, federal building, public library, etc.
As an attorney, I can tell you without a doubt prayer in a courtroom is regular and frequent.0 -
Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
It's completely irrelevant what faith they were. It only matters what the law says, and freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion are basic tenants upon which America was founded. I find it highly significant that they chose to put this particular guarantee at the first amendment not the second third or fourth. In fact, it's the first line of the first amendment.
This makes any religion-based argument against gay-marriage moot upfront. It's unconstitutional.
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. The state simply cannot start a church, end of story. It has no bearing on whether or not a student would like to pray, or a politician for that matter.
What I find so hilarious is that the argument about ssm is that it harms no one, yet listening to someone pray is toxic.
I love you libs, no matter how hypocritical you are.
that depends on how you interpret it... and it is generally interpreted to extend the way it is being used in this thread... and I am all for reinterpreting the constitution as times change... thing of all the other 1st amendment cases that have extended freedom of speech if the constitution would have been interpreted simply as exactly what is says0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
did you type that with your nose?
I was wondering the same.
Why does he constantly bang on about "winning".0 -
That much is unclear. Thomas Jefferson is famously identified as agnostic/atheist.. This really isn't true. He was a Christian man who loved Jesus. Abraham Lincoln, I could argue was at least agnostic. But the big thing is that they were tired of having a specific religion forced upon them. That's what they wanted to prevent- anyone in power forcing others to abide by their personal religious beliefs. On that face alone, any religious argument against gay marriage (or anything, really) *should* be moot in the states.
Kat I love you honey but we may need to debate over this one, TJ was as atheist as you could be back then. The man REWROTE the bible and took out all of Jesus's miracles and the resurrection! I don't see how he could be considered Christian and not believe in the resurrection. As the believers will tell you, it's kiiind of a big deal to them.
I'll be the first to admit that I am not super-knowledgeable on this one... I will say that I've read a couple of articles and I've seen some interviews which have convinced me that he was, at least outwardly, a Christian man. I won't step up to the plate for a debate on this one until I do some more sound research. I'm better at debating current social issues than on matters of historical fact. Simply taking out the miracles though, doesn't make someone not Christian. My mom is definitely Christian, but doesn't believe in the miracles, hell, or the resurrection. She still loves her some Jesus though!0 -
Is it against the rules if I point out the breathtaking incoherence of this post?
Since it and the others were kind of written in lolcat, I just wrote it off as a troll...or a cat :huh:0 -
Please don't leave yet. I haven't had the chance to chat with you yet. I am a conservative Christian, and I'm often in this debate group alone defending Christianity. I always try to do it with grace, kindness, and respect. Try to see beyond what you feel is an attack, and just give your argument, but support your argument with good, coherent thoughts expressed.Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
I posted this earlier and don't know if you got to see it. What is your thought on this quote?
"Politics divide. Love doesn't. Sad for the division and loss this unnecessary political move has caused and will cause. Sad for the message it sends. "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's and don't get them tangled up...."0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
did you type that with your nose?
I was wondering the same.
Why does he constantly bang on about "winning".
Sorry, was driving at the time...by winning I meam winning ppl to ur argument.0 -
That much is unclear. Thomas Jefferson is famously identified as agnostic/atheist.. This really isn't true. He was a Christian man who loved Jesus. Abraham Lincoln, I could argue was at least agnostic. But the big thing is that they were tired of having a specific religion forced upon them. That's what they wanted to prevent- anyone in power forcing others to abide by their personal religious beliefs. On that face alone, any religious argument against gay marriage (or anything, really) *should* be moot in the states.
Kat I love you honey but we may need to debate over this one, TJ was as atheist as you could be back then. The man REWROTE the bible and took out all of Jesus's miracles and the resurrection! I don't see how he could be considered Christian and not believe in the resurrection. As the believers will tell you, it's kiiind of a big deal to them.
Revisionist history at its finest. He attended church and that abridged version has miracles listed in the table of contents. Sounds like a non-believer to me0 -
Since it and the others were kind of written in lolcat, I just wrote it off as a troll...or a cat :huh:
Nah. Most cats I know are agnostic if not straight up atheists. And commies, the lot of them.0 -
Is it against the rules if I point out the breathtaking incoherence of this post?
Since it and the others were kind of written in lolcat, I just wrote it off as a troll...or a cat :huh:
WHAT?? A cat would never write such utter nonsense!!!
<
I r offended on behalf of my fluffster!
Edited to add: erm, up a bit for the fluffster!0 -
I was thinking the same thing,Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
did you type that with your nose?
I was wondering the same.
Why does he constantly bang on about "winning".
It's almost like he thinks he's made at least a singular salient point on the subject which require debating - I'm still waiting for a cogent argument against gay marriage from anybody worth the wear on my keyboard.
I won't hold my breath.0 -
Wrong. This country was founded on the notion of FREEDOM of religion.
Amendment 1 of the constitution (since you obviously missed this in your high school civics class):
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I'm not american so correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the founding fathers non religious and borderline agnostics? I'm pretty sure the first few presidents were?
Didn't want to post the entire conversation you two were having so I just posted the last comment!
It's completely irrelevant what faith they were. It only matters what the law says, and freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion are basic tenants upon which America was founded. I find it highly significant that they chose to put this particular guarantee at the first amendment not the second third or fourth. In fact, it's the first line of the first amendment.
This makes any religion-based argument against gay-marriage moot upfront. It's unconstitutional.
There is no "freedom from religion" in the Constitution. The state simply cannot start a church, end of story. It has no bearing on whether or not a student would like to pray, or a politician for that matter.
What I find so hilarious is that the argument about ssm is that it harms no one, yet listening to someone pray is toxic.
I love you libs, no matter how hypocritical you are.
that depends on how you interpret it... and it is generally interpreted to extend the way it is being used in this thread... and I am all for reinterpreting the constitution as times change... thing of all the other 1st amendment cases that have extended freedom of speech if the constitution would have been interpreted simply as exactly what is says
So we make it up as we go? Sounds like a solid way to have a rule of law society.0 -
Ok im checking out, this is the "if ur not pro gay ur stupid a big or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I under stand n empsthizr wiyh u feeling wronged n im pro civil unions, but u all do ur caise a disservice in how u react to those who have a diffetence in oponions....if u really want to "win" grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they cant play in the sandbox.
Trust me
Well... I tried to do that with you, but you didn't want to go along with it and have a respectful discourse. So, since you *want* me to act like a little kid so you can feel better about your beliefs and ignore the fact that they have no foundation in the law... I'll go ahead and be childish.OK im checking out. this is the "if you're not pro-gay you're stupid, a bigot, or uninformed" thread
Heres a final thought, I understand and empathize with you feeling wronged and I'm pro civil unions, but you do your case a disservice in how you react to those who have a difference of opinions.... If you really want to "win," grow up and act like an adult and not like children who were told they can't play in the sandbox.
Trust me
FTFY, dumb@ss
I just want to add, while it's not totally relevant to this conversation, I read through a post once a couple weeks ago that started off about virginity, and some kid feeling pressured to not be a virgin. The thread evolved in to this same guy arguing that atheists have no morals and go around having endless promiscuous sex and hurting people, and that's what he would do if he didn't answer to god. Call me a bigot, but I wouldn't trust his opinion on ANYTHING in the fields of morality, ethics, personal responsibility or anything else. He might be good for weight loss and exercise advise but that's where I draw the line.0 -
Since it and the others were kind of written in lolcat, I just wrote it off as a troll...or a cat :huh:Is it against the rules if I point out the breathtaking incoherence of this post?Sorry, was driving at the time...
Toonces!0
This discussion has been closed.