If your not competing in a sport? I say its up to you. If you are in a sport, I look at it as an unfair advantage. I do not compete in any sport so Honestly I might if not for the possible negative side effects. Plus I would assume once you start using them you pretty much have to cycle for the rest of your life to maintain your gains, but I have not researched them so I don't know if this is true,.

the main issue is impatient people who jump on them straight away with hardly any training experience. They will help get you beyond you're genetic potential but not necessary until you actually get there. I know nothing of prohormones but read up a bit on steroids.

What is sad, is all the guys in my gym, who are clearly younger than me, juicing who cant hit intermediate lifts, they probably havent researched lifting, or hormones. Its like the guys say above, its impatient people who want everything now, sadly, it'll only get worse as the information age shortens attention spans

if it don't get you high then why bother?

There are definitely safe doses, but again, not a substitute for diet, hard work, consistency, and time
I think it is more fun and challenging to struggle though...keeps me motivated

I don't use them (obviously) but if someone uses them for recreational reasons (as opposed to a professional athlete who is breaking rules by using them) I don't take issue with it.

I DO take issue with people who use steroids and then use their physique to indicate that they have a clue what they're talking about, but that's another issue.

I don't use them (obviously) but if someone uses them for recreational reasons (as opposed to a professional athlete who is breaking rules by using them) I don't take issue with it.

I DO take issue with people who use steroids and then use their physique to indicate that they have a clue what they're talking about, but that's another issue.

This is called "Bro-Science", I'm not a fan either...it just spreads ignorance and normal (non-enhanced) people buy into it

Sometimes I read things that make me say "what the hell".

First of all, waiting to run a "cycle" until you max out naturally is dumb. If you run a "cycle", meaning you take the drugs, then you stop, after you've reached your genetic max (which takes ~8 years of training/dieting or so I've read) you will flat out lose any gains you made while on cycle. It's the same thing as being drunk, once you remove the alcohol, you sober up. So unless you plan on blasting and cruising once you hit your max, there's no point.

Running a PH/DS/AAS allows you simply to train harder, longer, or more frequently. In 6 weeks you can get 6 months of "work" done, providing diet is on point as well as you're training. Regardless of how flawless what you do is, you're going to lose some of it. The upside, is that you can get closer to your genetic max in less time. And for 99% of the people training in gyms, who aren't sponsored to be bodybuilders, there's this thing called life, work, and family that will always prevent you from "maxing out" naturally. Unless your entire day revolves around nutrition and training, you'll never "max out".

Second of all, I wish people would stop crediting anabolics for the physique SOME users own. Strongman competitors run the same, often times heavier cycles than pro bodybuilders, yet they have absolutely no physique. Physique is earned through hard, methodical work in the gym, hard methodical work in the kitchen, and plenty of rest. Drugs may enhance what you already have, but your average joe running a cycle of test e and dianabol will not suddenly look like Phil Heath. Either you do the work to get the body, or you don't and you won't.

more people die falling off ladders every year than AAS....should we ban ladders?

People need ladders to reach things. The general (healthy) public does not "need" steroids, they just want them.

Nice strawman argument. Not biting

Just saying, where's the anti stance on anabolics rooted?

The majority of the people against anabolics aren't athletes.
They're people who:
1. Don't understand steroids
2. Watch sports on tv and think steroids ruin the sport, again, they don't understand that a large portion of their favorite athletes have used or are currently using.
3. Are lazy people who want to discredit other peoples achievements by saying they cheated and used steroids.

I come into contact with all of those people pretty often.

Just saying, where's the anti stance on anabolics rooted?

The majority of the people against anabolics aren't athletes.
They're people who:
1. Don't understand steroids
2. Watch sports on tv and think steroids ruin the sport, again, they don't understand that a large portion of their favorite athletes have used or are currently using.
3. Are lazy people who want to discredit other peoples achievements by saying they cheated and used steroids.

I come into contact with all of those people pretty often.

Totally agree. I have never used but I spent 2 years educating myself before deciding not to. I have NOTHING against anyone who decides to use them. On one hand I don't think they should be legalized in theory because there are risks and to get the desired effect that MOST people are after we are talking about abusive levels AS. On the other hand I'm a proponent of legalizing certain recreational drugs because I feel that is a lost war and we might as well tax the shyt out of it. So really what's the difference right? I don't know... my main beef is with people who abuse their bodies and then we the public end up footing the bill when they end up in hospital.