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My point actually lines up with your attempt at humor somewhat. lifting 200 lbs once takes the same effort/calories as lifting 50lbs four times - calories used are the same but one might result in overload and signals to the body to build stronger muscle and the other wouldn't - again, calories are only part of the story,…

You are 100% right, this is one of several formulas of varying complexity, though most are pretty much the same. The formula is only as good as the variables included in the estimate. However, i have only seen BMR formulas that are static - i have never seen one that is dynamic (e.g., accounts for the fact that i have been…

i would agree that all the things you said can affect metabolism in general. However,BMR in the CICO model is a specific formula used to estimate your metabolic rate. You can read about the formula here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris%E2%80%93Benedict_equation

The whole point of a theoretical model (like CICO) is that its supposed to be an accurate representation of how something works (in this case weightloss). The model is supposed to be a summation of scientific understanding about relationships and interactions. If the model is accurate it should help inform your decision…

I agree with everything you wrote - the problem is that the BMR formula thats used in the CICO model does not allow for a dynamic BMR (other than accounting for changes in weight etc.) . According to the formula, your BMR should be unaffected by hormones other than a general variable of being male or female. Your argument…

But that's exactly what the CICO model says - track your caloric intake, track/estimate your energy expenditure and as long as calories in are less than calories out you will lose weight. While that works for some period of time, once the body begins to adapt it becomes more complicated. If you think the model says…

Thanks for taking the time to watch the video Riff1970. While I have problems with the CICO model, i actually like the model that AnvilHead sent as a better and more complete model (http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html). Based on other literature, like the video, I've concluded that low carb is the way to go (in my…

Please see my response to Kimny72 - if you can explain how my understanding of the calories out side of the equation is wrong I'd appreciate it.

In my understanding of the CICO model, ALL calories out are ONLY accounted for by BMR + thermic effect of food + activity. BMR is ONLY based on body mass, body composition, gender, age and general activity level. Thats the point of the biggest loser study - they found metabolism slowed more than one would expect based on…

According to the CICO model - your daily metabolic rate should be your BMR + activity. My point is that BMR seems to do a poor job of predicting someones base metabolism overtime when they are on a diet. the biggest loser study here's accessible summary of the study (an…

I get all the things your said. My assertion is that the CICO model is a simple linear equation that it is not accurate and does not adequately describe the complexity of the human body (which you also described nicely). My point is that the CICO model has a very limited number of variables in it (calories consumed, BMR,…

Thanks for the reply. I understand and agree with a "tendency to preserve energy. I wouldn't entirely disagree with your response. I just don't think what you said is contained within or explained by the CICO model. Thats why i was so confused by the model of obesity that AnvilHead sent to justify/explain the CICO model in…

For now, forget I even mentioned insulin. Can any of the CICO proponents explain to me what the CICO model says about “a tendency to preserve energy”. How is this tendency enforced by the laws of physics or the human body? Can this tendency be affected positively or negatively? I don’t disagree with the tendency (and I…

I agree that obesity is multifactorial - and in a cursory review of the map your linked to I think there's a lot that's right. But one question I have is right smack in the middle of the energy balance section is a box labled "Tendency to Preserve Energy". There is no explanation of what that means in the model, but what i…

Glad to see you have an open mind and are willing to look at information that conflicts with your understanding - the scientific method requires constant challenging. Clearly its not worth listening to a professor from Brigham Young University, what could he possibly know that you don't? Even if he is a keto zealot - why…

A video of Dr. Bikman (professor at BYU) discussing some aspects of a caloric vs. hormonal model of weight loss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t1JN0RgvO4

No a blog post is not a comprehensive review of the scientific literature, but the blog cites a scientific study to support its assertion (found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10049982 ) There was a book written about this issue that goes through a lot of science. "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and…

From the Myfitnesspal blog See myth #2 https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/2-major-myths-about-calories-to-reconsider/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MFP_Newsletter_20180607&os_ehash=55@sfmc:16216971

The blog you quote asserts that there is direct relationship between calories and adult obesity. Lets start with the fact that this was simple analysis by a blogger and not published in a peer-reviewed journal. Below is a more sophisticated analysis of the SAME DATA (which was derived from NHANES) that was published in a…

On the point of insulin response to various macroeconomics, the insulin reactions to different nutrients is different, fat produces a minimal insulin response, protein a greater response and carbs the greatest response. Its why I thing a LCHF diet is preferred. While correlation does not equal causation - another…

Kimny - I think all those things you suggested are possible - i was responding to one specific point about how could sugar use go down and obesity go up. I am familiar with the Blue Zones - I think that that research is very interesting and suggests that health and weight are multi-factorial problems. I think the issues of…

AnvilHead - here is a companion to your graph. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/heal-the-mind-heal-the-body/201711/new-diet-ideas-the-artificial-sweeteners-controversy

One possible answer for sugar consumption going down and obesity going up is that artificial sweeteners still spike insulin. Artificial sweeteners produce the counterintuitive effect of inducing metabolic derangements…

Here's and answer from science - we are eating more carbs than we used to. Trends in carbohydrate, fat, and protein intakes and association with energy intake in normal-weight, overweight, and obese individuals: 1971–2006 "Results: The prevalence of obesity increased from 11.9% to 33.4% in men and from 16.6% to 36.5% in…

There are lots of folks who have done keto for years at www.ketogenicforums.com . Also, the hosts of the 2ketodudes.com podcast have been keto for years. Also, Drs. Phiney and Volek have been research and writing and eating keto for a VERY long time…

The anvil will hit the ground first because you did not specify that they are both in a vacuum or that the ten pounds of feathers are bound together in some package and not simply a pile of feathers that are free to float down gently because of their greater surface area. Details matter. Similarly, to ignore the…

Yes the law of gravity is universal - and if you jump out of a tree you will hit the ground - but you can jump out of the tree holding an anvil or wearing a parachute and your experience hitting the ground will be very different. When people talk about CICO they talk about simply counting calories and treating a calorie is…

CICO is asserted as true by many - and there's also lots of evidence that is not the total story. There is nothing in the CICO model that accounts for why someones metabolism can speed up or slow down (well-accepted and well-documented). CICO suggests that you are playing a board game with regular forward and back movement…

When you eat carbs your body retains more salt and water for as long as you continue to eat carbs. That is why most people on a low carb diet experience a big weight loss in the first week. If you eat keto - then you are eating a minimal amount of carbs and you will retain a minimal amount of water and salt.

congratulations - its not always a smooth journey - keep calm and keto on. Also, remember how you gained the weight in the first place and, no matter what, don't do that again :-)