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HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Replies
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Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are.
Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
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deansdad101 wrote: »
Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
Thank you - I do have a potentially stupid question (as I have not started my research) - but is there a difference in the TG/HDL and the CHOL/HDL ratios? The reason I ask is because my results state the Chol/HDL ratio should be in a range of 2.8 - 6.6. Initially it was 6.98 (high) and the latest test shows it falls (although on the high side) within the acceptable ranges. Now I'm second guessing what I am reading based on this discussion. (And I don't want to take over someone elses thread with this so, my apologies for that.) I thought I was sharing good news and now I'm just confused.0 -
Vol;deansdad101 wrote: »
Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
Thank you - I do have a potentially stupid question (as I have not started my research) - but is there a difference in the TG/HDL and the CHOL/HDL ratios? The reason I ask is because my results state the Chol/HDL ratio should be in a range of 2.8 - 6.6. Initially it was 6.98 (high) and the latest test shows it falls (although on the high side) within the acceptable ranges. Now I'm second guessing what I am reading based on this discussion. (And I don't want to take over someone elses thread with this so, my apologies for that.) I thought I was sharing good news and now I'm just confused.
Come on Vol - you know the drill......the only "stupid question" is the one.........
Short (and VERY oversimplified) answer is "yes" - there is a difference (and a big one).
Each of those ratios (and the others) will have totally different "recommended" ranges, high and low limits and import as to how reliable it is as a marker for prediction of (for example) CHD,
Here's a "quickie" that provides an quick overview of the various ratios that's pretty good - just don't pay too much attention to many of the specific numbers they cite as "goals" or "limits" - until you've had a chance to learn why they might not be the most reliable available.
http://tinyurl.com/ny9nlb2
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volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. Event though it's a huge improvement in your Triglycerides (which is great!), the ratio is a more telling number. Have you ever had your c-reactive protein checked? or your LDL particle size?
If you are eating a lot of omega-6 fats (vegetable oils [eg: salad dressing, mayo], grain fed beef, etc) this will have a negative effect on your HDL. Interestingly I had Trig/HDL numbers very close to yours (123/29) when I had it checked about 3 months ago (1 month into keto). Of course my doc wasn't concerned at all because my total cholesterol was only 151). However, I was very concerned based on everything I've read on the subject. Since then I've been really focused on lowering omega-6 fats and increasing my "good" saturated fats (more MCT's, and grass fed beef/dairy). I go back for a blood test this week, I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
I had my bloodwork done in August (8th), pre-keto, but had lost 60lbs or so at that point.
Cholesterol: 172.7 (down from 192)
Triglycerides: 95.36 (down from 106)
HDL: 33.02 (down from 39! damnit)
LDL: 154.72 (up from 132)
The HDL/LDL thing was bothersome, but I am working on that and my Trig/HDL ratio is 2.89 so not ideal but not bad either. I just had a physical Thursday for school and I am hoping to see improvement in my numbers, particularily a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. I've been trying to make an effort to increase my omega-3's: Grassfed butter, unrefined coconut oil, two fish oil capsules/day (containing 1500mg omega-3 combined), my eggs have omega 3 (and I eat about 12 a week), I only eat red meat about 2 times per week (I cannot afford grassfed beef for a family of 6), while decreasing my omega-6: I use olive oil if I use oil, mayo is a not even every week sort of thing, I use salad dressing no more than twice/week in general etc.
My diet last week (for example) was 74% fat (and of my fat, 38.3% was saturated), 5% carbs (14.6g daily, of which 7 was fiber), and 21% protein. I am hoping if I can keep my numbers like that going forward, I will see continued improvement in my cholesterol panel.
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Ok - I have worn out my poor calculator - but I get it now. The concern is that my HDL/LDL ratio is too high. I need to increase my HDL and lower (even further) my LDL. I will continue to work on that. Keep in mind that these results are after eating keto for 2 months (june/july). The reduction of total cholesterol was pretty good I felt (considering what I started with). I do eat the grassfed butters, coconut oil etc. But I eat a lot of red meat - (steaks, hamburgers, roasts, etc.) Now to educate myself on foods that are in the omega 6 category and omega 3 category and make some changes. WHEW - I swear I learn something new EVERYDAY eating Keto. 0
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Trigs/HDL dropping from 5.8 to 4.8 is a great move in the right direction. So, don't get too frustrated. Over 5 is not good. Under 5 is better. You want to get closer to 2 (or under it).
I would focus on eating good healthy (aka animal) fats and give your body time to heal and adjust. I realize this is the opposite advice from the standard (avoid animal fats and add lots of vegetable oils), but it should raise your HDL while having a negligible effect on your LDL levels.
That said, everyone's body reacts differently. There are links to more information above. I try not to stress too much about numbers.0 -
Vol;Ok - I have worn out my poor calculator - but I get it now. The concern is that my HDL/LDL ratio is too high. I need to increase my HDL and lower (even further) my LDL. I will continue to work on that. Keep in mind that these results are after eating keto for 2 months (june/july). The reduction of total cholesterol was pretty good I felt (considering what I started with). I do eat the grassfed butters, coconut oil etc. But I eat a lot of red meat - (steaks, hamburgers, roasts, etc.) Now to educate myself on foods that are in the omega 6 category and omega 3 category and make some changes. WHEW - I swear I learn something new EVERYDAY eating Keto.
Yes.............................but.
On the Omegas 3&6, yes for sure.
On the H and L dl's though it's not quite that cut and dried.
This is the problem with attempting to give "short and sweet" answers (even if I was any good at short and sweet - which I'm quite sure no one would argue I am) -
-it's just never that simple.
Most of what you (and everyone else) "knows" and has been told (by the medical "professionals" we "trust") is simply wrong - there's just no "nice" way to say it.
The long claimed "absolute, positive causal link" between "bad" cholesterol numbers and "certain death" CVD - just isn't there now, has never been there over the last 40 years or so since it was "declared" to be and there has been NOT ONE clinical study which has stood up to peer review that shows otherwise. (Ask your Dr to show you "the" one s/he's basing their belief on).
The whole HDL/LDL/TG/VLDL issue is FAR from settled science but today it's close to becoming consensus (at least in the research community) that the single LDL number we typically get from a doc office test is basically useless (it's not even a "measured" quantity but rather a calculated figure).
The issue of TWO types of LDL, and total particle numbers and density matters much more than does the single "calculated" number.
There's WAY too much detail to try and explain here and there are numerous sources where one can find the info is as much detail as desired. Some extremely "jargon" laden and others over simplified to the point of uselessness.
This one is a decent "middle ground" - enough detail, yet not so much as to induce sleep.
tinyurl.com/nqcsc4h
Under 10 bucks for kindle version and you can "preview" it by clicking on the image of the book.
A good resource in its own right but also an excellent source of "leads" to others in the field on the "cutting edge".
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Thank you both. I am familiar with Jimmy Moore and his work. I have read Keto Clarity (ok, more skimmed for highlights). I will have my levels checked again soon (after having eaten this way for a longer amount of time - more than 2 months) and see where I am before I make any adjustments. I know I'm doing the right things now, and I was very pleased with my results having been eating poorly for 47 years and then switching to Keto and seeing a huge change (one I had never seen before) almost immediately. I have been Keto Adapated for 6 months as of next Monday. Trying to reverse 47 years is going to take some time. But I am committed. And again, thanks for all of you time and concern.0
