Geroge Zimmerman trial
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I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Their son's life is not valued? Really?
What about the 9 people that were shot last weekend in Chicago, that the media will NEVER tell you about? Their lives apparently have no value.
They absolutely had value. Everyone's life has value.
Okay so why is it that you hear NOTHING about them?
Is it because it was black killing blacks?
Why doesn't Rev. Jesse Jackson get up and protest them?
Black on black crime is a completely different problem, but the history of non blacks being able to kill blacks and walk free is disgusting and people are sick of it....0 -
I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Based on what I heard it sounded like a case of self defense. Perhaps I don't have the correct story but more to the point. If you think that there is some form of cosmic justice then you are kidding yourself. If Zimmerman is a Christian and he asks for forgiveness then he will be let in to heaven just the same as anyone else. It's not like this murder makes him unable to get in. I haven't committed murder but your god would make me suffer for not believing in him. Jeffry Dahmer gets eternal paradise but anyone who does not believe gets eternal hell. There is no cosmic justice.
I do not know how much you did or did not watch, but it certainly did not sound like self defense to me....I have been following this since it first came up in the headlines of March 2012.....Zimmerman should not have been following him to start with, he had no business stalking him down....esp after 911 told him not to.
As for 'cosmic justice' I am not sure what your beliefs are, but they certainly do not sound like mine. Everything you stated there does not coincide with my beliefs at all. Zimmerman is NOT remorseful, nor is he sick, he had a chip on his shoulder about young black males, and finally did something about it when confronted back by one he was following.....this has evil written all over it.....0 -
I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Based on what I heard it sounded like a case of self defense. Perhaps I don't have the correct story but more to the point. If you think that there is some form of cosmic justice then you are kidding yourself. If Zimmerman is a Christian and he asks for forgiveness then he will be let in to heaven just the same as anyone else. It's not like this murder makes him unable to get in. I haven't committed murder but your god would make me suffer for not believing in him. Jeffry Dahmer gets eternal paradise but anyone who does not believe gets eternal hell. There is no cosmic justice.
I do not know how much you did or did not watch, but it certainly did not sound like self defense to me....I have been following this since it first came up in the headlines of March 2012.....Zimmerman should not have been following him to start with, he had no business stalking him down....esp after 911 told him not to.
As for 'cosmic justice' I am not sure what your beliefs are, but they certainly do not sound like mine. Everything you stated there does not coincide with my beliefs at all. Zimmerman is NOT remorseful, nor is he sick, he had a chip on his shoulder about young black males, and finally did something about it when confronted back by one he was following.....this has evil written all over it.....
I caught bits and pieces of the trial here and there when I could. I saw new coverage of the trial. Perhaps I may have missed something but no amount of being followed is enough to justify tackling someone to the ground and hitting their head against the concrete.
I know my beliefs are not the same as yours. You have no way of knowing if Zimmerman is remorseful or not. You have no way of knowing if he is sick or not. You have no way of knowing if he is going to ask your imaginary friend for forgiveness or not. But you do know that if he is remorseful and if he does ask for forgiveness that he definitely will not be punished. Meaning he will never be held accountable by anyone.
Are you saying that if you commit murder that God will never forgive you?0 -
Zimmerman is NOT remorseful, nor is he sick, he had a chip on his shoulder about young black males, and finally did something about it when confronted back by one he was following.....this has evil written all over it.....
Do you have proof of any of this?0 -
I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Based on what I heard it sounded like a case of self defense. Perhaps I don't have the correct story but more to the point. If you think that there is some form of cosmic justice then you are kidding yourself. If Zimmerman is a Christian and he asks for forgiveness then he will be let in to heaven just the same as anyone else. It's not like this murder makes him unable to get in. I haven't committed murder but your god would make me suffer for not believing in him. Jeffry Dahmer gets eternal paradise but anyone who does not believe gets eternal hell. There is no cosmic justice.
I do not know how much you did or did not watch, but it certainly did not sound like self defense to me....I have been following this since it first came up in the headlines of March 2012.....Zimmerman should not have been following him to start with, he had no business stalking him down....esp after 911 told him not to.
As for 'cosmic justice' I am not sure what your beliefs are, but they certainly do not sound like mine. Everything you stated there does not coincide with my beliefs at all. Zimmerman is NOT remorseful, nor is he sick, he had a chip on his shoulder about young black males, and finally did something about it when confronted back by one he was following.....this has evil written all over it.....
I caught bits and pieces of the trial here and there when I could. I saw new coverage of the trial. Perhaps I may have missed something but no amount of being followed is enough to justify tackling someone to the ground and hitting their head against the concrete.
I know my beliefs are not the same as yours. You have no way of knowing if Zimmerman is remorseful or not. You have no way of knowing if he is sick or not. You have no way of knowing if he is going to ask your imaginary friend for forgiveness or not. But you do know that if he is remorseful and if he does ask for forgiveness that he definitely will not be punished. Meaning he will never be held accountable by anyone.
Are you saying that if you commit murder that God will never forgive you?
I believe that someone that commits murders because they are mentally ill, say, in the case of Andrea Yates, can still be redeemed in the eyes of God.
Someone that kills someone because they are different then them, in the name of hate, I am not so sure if they can ever been redeemed because of the hate in their hearts. Internal hate is a powerful thing.
Furthermore, I do think that if someone is following you, that you have the right to defend yourself, I do not think anyone, esp a kid, should wait until they are being grabbed, raped or attacked before defending themselves....if that was my son, I would have told him to defend himself as well.
Anyone that has been watching the coverage, and the interviews with Zimmerman and his family, can tell he has no remorse for the loss of this young life. If you have been watching and cannot see that, you are not paying attention.0 -
Anyone that has been watching the coverage, and the interviews with Zimmerman and his family, can tell he has no remorse for the loss of this young life. If you have been watching and cannot see that, you are not paying attention.
When is the last time Zimmerman was interviewed?
Are you a professional at reading people?0 -
Alright stop the presses. I will table everything you said for now to focus on the one thing that I think deserves to be highlighted. You believe that if someone follows you it gives you the right to attack them and that you would consider that attack an act of self defense. Let me make this unambiguously clear. You are wrong. There is no such thing as a preemptive self defense.I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Based on what I heard it sounded like a case of self defense. Perhaps I don't have the correct story but more to the point. If you think that there is some form of cosmic justice then you are kidding yourself. If Zimmerman is a Christian and he asks for forgiveness then he will be let in to heaven just the same as anyone else. It's not like this murder makes him unable to get in. I haven't committed murder but your god would make me suffer for not believing in him. Jeffry Dahmer gets eternal paradise but anyone who does not believe gets eternal hell. There is no cosmic justice.
I do not know how much you did or did not watch, but it certainly did not sound like self defense to me....I have been following this since it first came up in the headlines of March 2012.....Zimmerman should not have been following him to start with, he had no business stalking him down....esp after 911 told him not to.
As for 'cosmic justice' I am not sure what your beliefs are, but they certainly do not sound like mine. Everything you stated there does not coincide with my beliefs at all. Zimmerman is NOT remorseful, nor is he sick, he had a chip on his shoulder about young black males, and finally did something about it when confronted back by one he was following.....this has evil written all over it.....
I caught bits and pieces of the trial here and there when I could. I saw new coverage of the trial. Perhaps I may have missed something but no amount of being followed is enough to justify tackling someone to the ground and hitting their head against the concrete.
I know my beliefs are not the same as yours. You have no way of knowing if Zimmerman is remorseful or not. You have no way of knowing if he is sick or not. You have no way of knowing if he is going to ask your imaginary friend for forgiveness or not. But you do know that if he is remorseful and if he does ask for forgiveness that he definitely will not be punished. Meaning he will never be held accountable by anyone.
Are you saying that if you commit murder that God will never forgive you?
I believe that someone that commits murders because they are mentally ill, say, in the case of Andrea Yates, can still be redeemed in the eyes of God.
Someone that kills someone because they are different then them, in the name of hate, I am not so sure if they can ever been redeemed because of the hate in their hearts. Internal hate is a powerful thing.
Furthermore, I do think that if someone is following you, that you have the right to defend yourself, I do not think anyone, esp a kid, should wait until they are being grabbed, raped or attacked before defending themselves....if that was my son, I would have told him to defend himself as well.
Anyone that has been watching the coverage, and the interviews with Zimmerman and his family, can tell he has no remorse for the loss of this young life. If you have been watching and cannot see that, you are not paying attention.
You cannot be defending yourself until after you are attacked. If you attack first you are the aggressor.0 -
All, I'm going to say is someone needs to put the blindfold back onto Lady Justice. Because what is even more sad to me than Zimmerman walking away from the court that day with a Not Guilty verdict (which is the State's fault as well as they didn't investigate and their prosecution was weak) is that a Black Woman went to jail for shooting a gun into the air, with no intent to kill, ON HER OWN properpty when people were tresspassing... and she got 20 years even though she was also using the Stand Your Ground...0
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I will ask this question because it may explain why he attacked Zimmerman. Is anyone here a minority? This is very important from a minority standpoint. I am a Native American and I have been followed in stores because of my color. I have been searched when leaving stores when others walk right past. I have also been stereotyped as a drunk and asked if I finished high school. I have also seen my children treated differently when they were with me opposed to with their dad. Their dad, he's caucasian. We are in an interracial relationship. I have even seen people treat him differently after they have found out he is married to me and has biracial babies. A little about me: I have a bachelor's degree in Accounting with a Minor in Finance (yes, I finished high school), I don't drink (common stereotype for Native Americans, I don't have a criminal record unless a speeding ticket for 5 over counts and I refuse to play the race card when it comes to myself or my children. BUT I have definitely seen it.
With that said, does anyone else know what it's like to be "profiled" on a regular basis? Maybe Trayvon appeared suspicious in a neighborhood ridden with burglaries. But as a minority or someone that is "profiled" on a regular basis, I'm not going to stop because someone, who is not of law enforcement authority, wants to ask me some questions. Especially if you are stalking me. Ever hear about the women/kids stalked in parking garages or parking lots or playgrounds and snatched up never to be seen again or at least alive?? This world is crazy. When a man gets out of his car and starts coming towards me, I would have reacted in the same manner.
The real police were en route to the neighborhood. Let the professionals do their job. That's what they went to school for and get paid to do. Zimmerman was just neighborhood WATCH. He had no authority to confront a potential burglar.0 -
All, I'm going to say is someone needs to put the blindfold back onto Lady Justice. Because what is even more sad to me than Zimmerman walking away from the court that day with a Not Guilty verdict (which is the State's fault as well as they didn't investigate and their prosecution was weak) is that a Black Woman went to jail for shooting a gun into the air, with no intent to kill, ON HER OWN properpty when people were tresspassing... and she got 20 years even though she was also using the Stand Your Ground...
She was also shooting a warning shot to warn her abusive husband (or maybe it was ex husband) not to come any closer. She had also already filed a protective order against him. But please note that a protective order doesn't mean squat unless the police are there to see the person the PO is filed against. I had a PO filed against my ex in high school and on many occasions he violated the order but the police did nothing.0 -
Let's assume that on that night, Trayvon was able to get to Zimmerman's gun before Zimmerman was, let's assume that Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman. Is there any single one of us who would have ever heard about this story? My guess is no. As far as "non black" people being able to kill black people and get away with it over and over? Hmmm...I'm sure OJ has something to say about that.
This wasn't about race, this was about punks breaking into a gated community and stealing things and a person being fed up with it and doing what he thought was right...it didn't matter if the punks were black, green, purple, white, brown, or rainbow colored. It's about a 17 yr old kid thinking he was tougher than he was. Trayvon had plenty of time to make it home and Zimmerman would have never caught up with him. When Trayvon confronted Zimmerman instead of just heading home put him in a situation he thought he was going to control but couldn't.
Trayvon wasn't some soft faced little kid that was portrayed in the news, he was over 6', 17 yr old, football player...the same age my son was when this all went down and I'll tell you right now, my son could give me a decent fight if he wanted to.
Did Zimmerman mess up, I think so. I sorta of understand why he gave chase, but I'm not going to say I would have done it. Trayvon may have been just innocently coming home from getting Skittles, but he didn't have to run if he wasn't doing anything wrong. If he felt that Zimmerman was a threat, then go to the nearest house and ask for help, hang up the phone and call your parents or the police...you're in a gated sub-division, I'm sure somebody was home. Trayvon wanted to act like a thug and look like a thug, look at his posted tweets and self taken pictures, and when he thought he had the jump on Zimmerman, he came out and acted like a thug.
Do any of you teach your children to run away, hide, and when the guys back is turned to come out and confront him? Maybe I raised my son wrong, but if he were in that situation, he would have talked with Zimmerman from the onset out on the sidewalk with more than a dozen houses around and the second it looked like there is going to be trouble he is on the phone with me, or knocking on the neighbors door, or both.
Fact: it is not illegal to ask someone what they are doing, no matter what they are doing, what they are wearing, what color they are, what color you are, your profession, or your volunteer activities.
Fact: assault is illegal.
Fact: if you assault someone who is carrying a gun, your chances of getting shot increase vs assaulting someone who does not carry a gun.
My opinion is based on race or emotion, it's based on what I watched during the trial and what evidence was admitted...as well as those not admitted, but surfaced in the news...not what was reported but was Trayvon written by Trayvon in his posts and tweets. Watching the trial, it seemed to me that the prosecution seemed desperate...they seemed really trying to make something out of things that were really nothing.
Bottom line is, none of us know what truly went down that night, nobody here knows Zimmerman or knew Trayvon personally...everything we have is either second or third hand information and a lot of the speculations floating around are either racially or emotionally motivated, or both. Step away from the race card and put emotions aside, look at the facts presented in the case, and Florida law...and I would have given the same verdict as the jury.0 -
What we do know is that since the verdict happened there have been multiple incidents of black people attacking white people and shouting justice for Trayvon. Like it or not that is racism. Zimmerman is not a white guy. He only looks like a white guy he is Hispanic. That fact did not matter when a 78 year old white guy was beaten almost to death by two black teenagers and they were yelling "Justice for Trayvon" the entire time they did it.
There are still plenty of people in this country that think the races that we are serve the purpose of dividing us up in to teams. That fact will only be true for as long we me make it true. The problem is I fear it will always be this way. I am seriously starting to doubt that we will ever outgrow racism.0 -
All, I'm going to say is someone needs to put the blindfold back onto Lady Justice. Because what is even more sad to me than Zimmerman walking away from the court that day with a Not Guilty verdict (which is the State's fault as well as they didn't investigate and their prosecution was weak) is that a Black Woman went to jail for shooting a gun into the air, with no intent to kill, ON HER OWN properpty when people were tresspassing... and she got 20 years even though she was also using the Stand Your Ground...
Hey K8. I was thinking how crazy FL was for this whole incident until I read this part of and article from the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/marissa-alexander-gets-20_n_1530035.html
"On Aug. 1, 2010, Alexander was working for a payroll software company. She was estranged from her husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him, even though they'd had a baby together just nine days before. Thinking he was gone, she went to their former home to retrieve the rest of her clothes, family members said.
An argument ensued, and Alexander said she feared for her life when she went out to her vehicle and retrieved the gun she legally owned. She came back inside and ended up firing a shot into the wall, which ricocheted into the ceiling.
Gray testified that he saw Alexander point the gun at him and looked away before she fired the shot. He claims she was the aggressor, and he had begged her to put away the weapon.
A judge threw out Alexander's "stand your ground" self-defense claim, noting that she could have run out of the house to escape her husband but instead got the gun and went back inside. Alexander rejected a plea deal that would have resulted in a three-year prison sentence and chose to go to trial. A jury deliberated 12 minutes before convicting her."
If that's the case, she wasn't standing her ground. Just saying. Unjust sentencing...hell yeah. But if you fear for your life and had a chance to get away and instead come back with a gun, it shines a new light on everything. I still think 20yrs is waaaay to much, but what do I know?0 -
What we do know is that since the verdict happened there have been multiple incidents of black people attacking white people and shouting justice for Trayvon. Like it or not that is racism. Zimmerman is not a white guy. He only looks like a white guy he is Hispanic. That fact did not matter when a 78 year old white guy was beaten almost to death by two black teenagers and they were yelling "Justice for Trayvon" the entire time they did it.
There are still plenty of people in this country that think the races that we are serve the purpose of dividing us up in to teams. That fact will only be true for as long we me make it true. The problem is I fear it will always be this way. I am seriously starting to doubt that we will ever outgrow racism.
I couldn't agree more with you. I always tell people that you can only feel inferior if you let them. I'm a Hispanic guy living in a Poe-Dunk part of Maryland. Not too many minorities here. I've been called quite a few things. It doesn't bother me. Based on this article, it was never really a race issue until this happened.
http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-shooter-sues-nbcuniversal-3989720 -
I am just sick over this.....I am really struggling internally about this because of my Christian beliefs vs how angry I feel about this.....
There may not have been any justice for Trayvon on this earth, but one day, Zimmerman will have to face God
My heart bleeds for Trayvon's poor parents...to know that their son's life is not valued
Their son's life is not valued? Really?
What about the 9 people that were shot last weekend in Chicago, that the media will NEVER tell you about? Their lives apparently have no value.
They absolutely had value. Everyone's life has value.
Okay so why is it that you hear NOTHING about them?
Is it because it was black killing blacks?
Why doesn't Rev. Jesse Jackson get up and protest them?
It's because it's not marketable, everything is about money. Look at the media circus this trial created, they made it about good guy vs bad guy and threw the race card in there, even though it had nothing to do with it. It's hard to market many different people getting shot by faceless people. Your system is to blame for this, the court case was televised and Zimmerman was guilty before the trial in the eyes of everyone because of what the media released to the public.
I just find it strange because we aren't allowed to televise court cases here, it keeps it from becoming a tv show!0 -
Anyone looking for an unbiased, very deep, breakdown of the entire case going back months would be advised to have a look at http://www.talkleft.com.
The author is a lawyer whose ties to the progressive/liberal community are unimpeachable so it's not the words of some right-wing fanatic.
Her postings affer an insight to the case that strips away the hysteria of the media and focuses on the facts and makes it crystal clear why the case was decided the way it was - she also has very harsh words for the prosecution. It's a great deal of information, but if you're really interested in getting past the sound bytes to a serious examination of things, there is really no better source.0 -
Anyone looking for an unbiased, very deep, breakdown of the entire case going back months would be advised to have a look at http://www.talkleft.com.
The author is a lawyer whose ties to the progressive/liberal community are unimpeachable so it's not the words of some right-wing fanatic.
Her postings affer an insight to the case that strips away the hysteria of the media and focuses on the facts and makes it crystal clear why the case was decided the way it was - she also has very harsh words for the prosecution. It's a great deal of information, but if you're really interested in getting past the sound bytes to a serious examination of things, there is really no better source.
I'm sure a site called talkleft is very unbiased0 -
Whatever you do, don't read the the articles on the trial. We wouldn't want you to have to try to comprehend that a left-wing site is capable of providing coverage of something that breaks with the conventional progressive position. Stick inside your cocoon where your views are soothingly spoon-fed back to you.I'm sure a site called talkleft is very unbiased0 -
To be fair I don't really know if we humans are even capable of being unbiased. No matter how hard we try we are always going to be who we are. That is a truth of life that cannot be escaped. MSNBC and Fox news can both do a great job of telling us the actual events that happen and when we compare those things we can normally find that their stories will match.
Where the bias comes in to play is when they start telling us why those events took place:
Fox will tell us that our problems are always caused by one of their chosen villains. It will be the homosexual agenda or the bleeding heart liberals or the new atheists etc.
MSNBC will tell us that out problems are caused by the heavy hand of right wing conservatives imposing their views upon the rest of the world. They will say that we shouldn't be trying to be the world's police.
At the end of the day it can be difficult to say who we should be trusting. Our media does not have a lot of room for middle the road people who don't have extreme views because we the people have trained our media by giving our attention to the most radical of positions. I know most people are flocking to watch the train wreck but that is where the advertising dollars are going so that is the kind of media we are going to get.0 -
This wasn't about race, this was about punks breaking into a gated community and stealing things and a person being fed up with it and doing what he thought was right...it didn't matter if the punks were black, green, purple, white, brown, or rainbow colored. It's about a 17 yr old kid thinking he was tougher than he was. Trayvon had plenty of time to make it home and Zimmerman would have never caught up with him. When Trayvon confronted Zimmerman instead of just heading home put him in a situation he thought he was going to control but couldn't.
This is the most important view to me. Recently, we have had a string of break-ins in our neighborhood. Last week both my car and my fiances, our elderly neighbors across the street and a couple of friend at the end of the road all had our cars broken into. I was the only one who had items stolen. A GPS that was hidden between seats and my iPod. The same thing happened last summer and the police believe it is neighborhood teens who are 'bored'.
We have a neighborhood watch as well and I guarantee, if I saw a stranger walking through my neighborhood in the middle of the night, I would follow them until the police were present. Would any of you call the police and go home, wait for the police to call back and ask where he was last seen as they cannot find the person? "I don't know officer, I went to bed, they are probably in a neighbors house robbing them at gunpoint or something." I know I would want to keep an eye on the person until police arrived as I am sure most people would do as well. The notion that George Zimmerman just followed Trayvon to shoot him doesn't even make sense, I don't even know how people came to that conclusion.
So far in 2013, the murder rate in Indianapolis has doubled from last year, almost all black on black crimes. Unknown_sister, I know you think blacks are oppressed and targeted for committing crimes, but when you have 200 white on white shootings in a matter of 6 months, then you can use that excuse. It burns me to for people to want equality yet also use their race and oppression as an excuse for committing crimes. I get the same thing with the neighborhood kids who are breaking into our cars because our town "doesn't give them anything to do..."0
