Test your Blood Sugar Today?
deansdad101
Posts: 644 Member
If you didn't, I'm going to try my darnedest to convince you that you should have.
First thought that probably comes into your mind is -"what is he, crazy - gone off the deep end? I'm not diabetic, why should I test?"
A few months ago I said exactly the same thing.
Next might be "stick myself (on purpose), you nuts?"
Trust me, there is no one on the planet with a greater fear of needles (doctors, hospitals, white coats, etc) than I (doctor show on tv - either I close my eyes on purpose or I do so when i hit the ground<g>).
So you'll have to come up with a better excuse than those because they're both already been used. (and so has the one about setting my report card on the back of a dump truck and it drove away while at the bus stop when the teacher asked how come I didn't return it "signed" by my parents)
Kidding aside, if you are already T2D or have been told you are "pre" - you probably already are checking (at least you should be), so I'm talking to those who aren't and don't.
As I said, a few months ago I wouldn't have considered it but since I have been checking daily for the last few months I've come to realize the benefits are well worth the small expense and might just be the best money you can possibly spend on "preventive medicine".
Simple, plain (but painful) fact of the matter is, "most" of us wouldn't be here in the first place if we weren't dealing with "weight issues" one way or another and "weight" is the NUMBER ONE predictor of IR/T2D problems down the line.
To get the money part out of the way, one can get a "starter kit" with all you need to get going for under $20 at your local wallyworld or even for FREE if you're willing to wait a week or two (at least for those in US, and I "think" CA and UK, not sure about ROW).
For glucose testing (blood "sugar") depending on how many times you test a day (and where you get your test strips) it's $0.50 - $1.00 a day. A whole lot less than that daily "starbucks" stop and a whole lot better for your health as well.
If just keeping a much closer "eye" on glucose levels (which are the most important marker of insulin resistance (IR), the impending onset of metabolic syndrome or T2D) won't convince you, ask anyone you know who is currently dealing with T2D if they would rather have had a little more "advanced notice" and possibly taken steps early enough to avert what they currently have to deal with. It shouldn't be too difficult to find one just look around, pick out 3 or 4 people randomly and there's a pretty good chance one of them will qualify.
Or, you can do what I did for so long, carry on with the junior high beliefs that "it can't happen to me....., lalalala...."
So even if that won't convince you, try this on for size.
Did you know that monitoring blood glucose (BG) levels is one of the "best" (and most reliable) methods of determining your level of "ketosis" and even more importantly, your level of carb (and protein) tolerance and insulin resistance?
Unlike the basically "useless" urine styx or questionable breath testing methods currently available, BG test results are probably the second best, most accurate, and most reliable method of determining carb tolerance levels (second only to blood B-OHB "ketone body" testing which you can also do with the proper meter although it is significantly more expensive for the strips).
In simple terms, EVERYONE's level of carb tolerance is different - both to become "fat adapted" and to remain so in "maintenance", It is important to determine exactly what YOUR level is if you intend to remain "in" ketosis.
Yes, it "can" be done by "trial and error" and many have done so, but it takes a good deal of time, accurate data collection, and a good understanding of exactly which changes or adjustments are impacting what.
For most, it's much closer to "I think I'm "in" because my pee stinks", or "I know I'm "in" because my Styx are always purple" (which is almost always an indication that you are NOT).
A BG much above 100 (fasting) or one that doesn't return to "pre meal" levels within 2 hrs is "almost" certainly an indication that "something" isn't quite right and that a change in your macros is needed.
With that knowledge, garnered by an actual "test" instead of a "guess", one can quite easily (and quickly) "narrow down" the possibilities. Have your carb levels exceeded YOUR tolerance level? ("but, I'm only eating 45/day, I thought that was ok"). If your tolerance level is 40 then NO - it's not OK.
Or maybe you've exceeded your protein tolerance level and even though your carb levels are fine, the gluconeogenisis monster has paid you a visit and dropped off a nice dose of glucose.
The styx can't tell you, a breath meter can't tell you - a BG meter CAN.
And, it can tell you in almost "real time".
Now, tell me again why YOUR long term health, and YOUR understanding of exactly what the "best" macro levels for YOU is - isn't worth 50 cents or a buck a day?
PLEASE, at least consider giving it a try - there's NO "downside", potentially some "really" important benefits, and possibly might even give you a "heads up" in time to spare you many years of anguish if not worse.
T2D CAN be "stopped in its tracks" (not for everybody, but for many), IF it's caught early enough!
We need all the members we can get if we're going to get to the top of the charts as a Group and I'd hate to lose a single one of you! <S>
First thought that probably comes into your mind is -"what is he, crazy - gone off the deep end? I'm not diabetic, why should I test?"
A few months ago I said exactly the same thing.
Next might be "stick myself (on purpose), you nuts?"
Trust me, there is no one on the planet with a greater fear of needles (doctors, hospitals, white coats, etc) than I (doctor show on tv - either I close my eyes on purpose or I do so when i hit the ground<g>).
So you'll have to come up with a better excuse than those because they're both already been used. (and so has the one about setting my report card on the back of a dump truck and it drove away while at the bus stop when the teacher asked how come I didn't return it "signed" by my parents)
Kidding aside, if you are already T2D or have been told you are "pre" - you probably already are checking (at least you should be), so I'm talking to those who aren't and don't.
As I said, a few months ago I wouldn't have considered it but since I have been checking daily for the last few months I've come to realize the benefits are well worth the small expense and might just be the best money you can possibly spend on "preventive medicine".
Simple, plain (but painful) fact of the matter is, "most" of us wouldn't be here in the first place if we weren't dealing with "weight issues" one way or another and "weight" is the NUMBER ONE predictor of IR/T2D problems down the line.
To get the money part out of the way, one can get a "starter kit" with all you need to get going for under $20 at your local wallyworld or even for FREE if you're willing to wait a week or two (at least for those in US, and I "think" CA and UK, not sure about ROW).
For glucose testing (blood "sugar") depending on how many times you test a day (and where you get your test strips) it's $0.50 - $1.00 a day. A whole lot less than that daily "starbucks" stop and a whole lot better for your health as well.
If just keeping a much closer "eye" on glucose levels (which are the most important marker of insulin resistance (IR), the impending onset of metabolic syndrome or T2D) won't convince you, ask anyone you know who is currently dealing with T2D if they would rather have had a little more "advanced notice" and possibly taken steps early enough to avert what they currently have to deal with. It shouldn't be too difficult to find one just look around, pick out 3 or 4 people randomly and there's a pretty good chance one of them will qualify.
Or, you can do what I did for so long, carry on with the junior high beliefs that "it can't happen to me....., lalalala...."
So even if that won't convince you, try this on for size.
Did you know that monitoring blood glucose (BG) levels is one of the "best" (and most reliable) methods of determining your level of "ketosis" and even more importantly, your level of carb (and protein) tolerance and insulin resistance?
Unlike the basically "useless" urine styx or questionable breath testing methods currently available, BG test results are probably the second best, most accurate, and most reliable method of determining carb tolerance levels (second only to blood B-OHB "ketone body" testing which you can also do with the proper meter although it is significantly more expensive for the strips).
In simple terms, EVERYONE's level of carb tolerance is different - both to become "fat adapted" and to remain so in "maintenance", It is important to determine exactly what YOUR level is if you intend to remain "in" ketosis.
Yes, it "can" be done by "trial and error" and many have done so, but it takes a good deal of time, accurate data collection, and a good understanding of exactly which changes or adjustments are impacting what.
For most, it's much closer to "I think I'm "in" because my pee stinks", or "I know I'm "in" because my Styx are always purple" (which is almost always an indication that you are NOT).
A BG much above 100 (fasting) or one that doesn't return to "pre meal" levels within 2 hrs is "almost" certainly an indication that "something" isn't quite right and that a change in your macros is needed.
With that knowledge, garnered by an actual "test" instead of a "guess", one can quite easily (and quickly) "narrow down" the possibilities. Have your carb levels exceeded YOUR tolerance level? ("but, I'm only eating 45/day, I thought that was ok"). If your tolerance level is 40 then NO - it's not OK.
Or maybe you've exceeded your protein tolerance level and even though your carb levels are fine, the gluconeogenisis monster has paid you a visit and dropped off a nice dose of glucose.
The styx can't tell you, a breath meter can't tell you - a BG meter CAN.
And, it can tell you in almost "real time".
Now, tell me again why YOUR long term health, and YOUR understanding of exactly what the "best" macro levels for YOU is - isn't worth 50 cents or a buck a day?
PLEASE, at least consider giving it a try - there's NO "downside", potentially some "really" important benefits, and possibly might even give you a "heads up" in time to spare you many years of anguish if not worse.
T2D CAN be "stopped in its tracks" (not for everybody, but for many), IF it's caught early enough!
We need all the members we can get if we're going to get to the top of the charts as a Group and I'd hate to lose a single one of you! <S>
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Where can a BG meter be had for free? I would be more that happy to test. If I understand right a person needs to test a couple or few times a day at first to try to get a reading on how the WOE is working for you. After this is it more of a one time a day at the same time considering we might eat about the same time daily?0
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Never mind I found all of this information on this post. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10019664/how-do-i-know-if-im-in-ketosis#latest0
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SOI;shadesofidaho wrote: »Where can a BG meter be had for free? I would be more that happy to test. If I understand right a person needs to test a couple or few times a day at first to try to get a reading on how the WOE is working for you. After this is it more of a one time a day at the same time considering we might eat about the same time daily?
Check this thread for more details on the meters.
community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10019664/how-do-i-know-if-im-in-ketosis#latest
There have been a few changes since that thread was posted, and that thread focuses more on testing blood ketones (which is also a very good idea but in addition to BG testing, NOT "instead of").
The basic difference is, if you DO want to be able to test for ketones, there are only two meters which will do both (Precision Xtra (abbott) and the Relion Ultima (wallyworld).
In fact they are EXACTLY the same meter (both made by Abbott, just different name for WW) and either one can use the strips from the other.
The Xtra was free from abbott (google "Abbott Precision Xtra Free Meter") but you might have to dig around for it. I did a quick check and it looks like they are pushing the lesser grade meters (which are free for BG but will NOT also do Ketones if that matters to you)
https://abbottdiabetescare.com/products/patient/pxtra-overview.html
It's entirely possible that they no longer offer the Xtra for free as there were rumors that they are pulling out of that market and making them only for WW (as "relion Ultima's) now.
IF you want to be sure (on ketone testing) - you'll have to get the WW Ultima (~$20)
If you just want to do BG, any of the other Abbott "free" meters will do and the biggest determiner would be the cost of the strips. Take a look on ebay they're available there much cheaper but ONLY strips for whatever meter you select will work on that meter. (the Utima and the Xtra are the ONLY exception to that rule that I know of.
The WW Ultima at $20 is a pretty good deal though since the strips are available locally and pretty cheap (you can get them a little cheaper on the net but not much).
My second choice (maybe first if you don't care about K testing) is the Bayer Contour Next USB.
https://contournext.com/CMSPages/PortalTemplate.aspx?product=contournextusb&promospec=save&aliaspath=%2fMeter-and-Test-Strip-Savings%2fSave-on-Meters%2fMeter-Request
I have both and use the Xtra for k tests and the Contour for BG (most days).
I use the Relion Ultima BG test strips (bought on the net ebay) for BG tests once in a while, my bride prefers that meter and uses it daily.
When I looked into the "accuracy", reliability, and user satisfaction of a bunch of meters, the Xtra, Ultima, and Contour USB came out on top so if you're looking at one of the others you might want to do a little research.
The Contour can upload data to the lappy and it's nice for bringing to the doc. The software isn't that great but it's included free and fine for just printing out results.
The Contour has two advantages i do like which are, it takes a little less blood to "register" and if you don't get enough (it's not much) the first time, you get a "do-over" with the same strip, on the Ultima if it doesn't work the first time you need a new strip.
The Contour is a few dollars more (not sure how much) in a store but "free" is good.
Strips are also a little more (not much) online than the relion or ulima's.
I do have a source for the K strips where they are ~$2.00 (retail is $5 or 6) and another poster (GH?) mentioned that he found them online as well if you are interested).
I don't have permission to post the link but will send it to you if you are interested, PM me.
That should get you going on the meters, let me know if you need help.
As far as testing, my suggestion would be (to start off)- Test "fasting" BG (first thing when you get up) daily
- Test "before" a meal,
- 1 hr after the meal,
- 2 hrs after the meal
with the 3 tests.
You are looking for FBG (fasting blood glucose) levels around 100 (or less), and
Meal time levels that return to "pre meal" levels by the 2 hr test (with a fairly "smooth" curve).
If after the first week or two, FBG levels are in your "comfort zone" you might back off on the "everyday" some but if they're higher you'll want to continue and monitor closely.
I'd "mix up" the meals that you test (sometimes bfast, sometimes dinner) and before long you'll have a pretty good idea of the effects of different meals.
For determining carb tolerance levels it will become obvious pretty quickly if a level of BG isn't returning to "pre-meal" within the 2 hrs that either the carb or protein level is too high and you'll adjust based on the results.
Much like BP levels, it's the TREND and "averages" that matter - don't flip out over one reading (unless you actually ARE T1D or T2D - for those folks, one reading CAN be a real problem.)
edit: Forgot to mention, I had occasion to talk to both Abbott and Contour "customer service" and BOTH of them were extremely helpful, polite, and professional.
They each have "support" things you "join" separately (part of registration if I remember correctly) and I'd suggest you DO.
Both offer discounts on strips and the Contour one gives you a new carry case which is much nicer than the one that comes with the starter. (or a couple other choices).
Both "starters" come with only a couple strips, so you'll need more almost right away.
The both include (in the starter) a "lance" (the little "gun" that you use to stick yourself) and a few "lancets" (the little "needles" you put in the lance - so you'll need those before long as well (they're cheap).
The lancets come in different "guages" (thickness of the needle) - the thinner they are the less you feel them but I'd hold off on them until you try the ones in the starter.
If you don't like the lancet included with the starter there are a million choices for 3rd party ones (and a whole "cult" thing around which is best) - for me, the one with the xtra is my favorite but the contour one is fine and I did buy another (~$5) and any of the three are fine.
For the lancets "most" of them are interchangeable and will work in another lance.
They advise using a new one every time but lots of people reuse them until they get "dull" (I do).
I wouldn't "share" lancets (two people on the same one) and her sveltness uses a new one every time so just do what feels "right" for you. (They're only a couple cents apiece.0 -
PHEW. I am a bit overwhelmed. I need to read this again in the morning. I still have snow to shovel before I go to bed. And I worried about getting exercise after I had to stop the fence build. LOL
We might get to go to wallyworld Monday. I need to make it easy. There is another little version of WW close to us too and some times their prices are good and they tend to carry the same things. I will make and take notes with me. I do not know if I am headed towards diabetes. I would imagine considering my weight and love for sweets. Sugar cravings. Not now but before LCHF.
Right now I am stressing over the roads and our two doctor appointments for Joe on Monday. I know do not stress over some thing I can not control. At least we got both appointments on the same day. Hoping this storm passes by fast.
Thanks so much for all your information. I really do want to do the testing I just need to make it easy for me to do so. I love living in the middle of nowhere but when I want some thing right now it just has to wait. It is 45 miles to WW and then back again. Up and over a mountain with 7% grade and sharp curves at both ends with cliff at both the turns. It is not me I am afraid of it is the crazies that forget they are driving on ice. The plows are going strong tonight and will keep at it. Bless them.0 -
Testing my glucose and ketone levels was a pain in the figure but did help me gather some info for a couple weeks. It would have been nice to have had the meter and tested both before being LCHF for a few months.
Thankfully when I got my meter the first of this month I did not test insulin resistant but I may have been both leptin and insulin resistant but will never know now.
It was interesting to know my BG was 53 and 55 a couple times and I was going strong but the ketone level was around 2 which meant I was burning ketones for energy well I guess.0 -
SOI;shadesofidaho wrote: »PHEW. I am a bit overwhelmed. I need to read this again in the morning. I still have snow to shovel before I go to bed. And I worried about getting exercise after I had to stop the fence build. LOL
We might get to go to wallyworld Monday. I need to make it easy. There is another little version of WW close to us too and some times their prices are good and they tend to carry the same things. I will make and take notes with me. I do not know if I am headed towards diabetes. I would imagine considering my weight and love for sweets. Sugar cravings. Not now but before LCHF.
Right now I am stressing over the roads and our two doctor appointments for Joe on Monday. I know do not stress over some thing I can not control. At least we got both appointments on the same day. Hoping this storm passes by fast.
Thanks so much for all your information. I really do want to do the testing I just need to make it easy for me to do so. I love living in the middle of nowhere but when I want some thing right now it just has to wait. It is 45 miles to WW and then back again. Up and over a mountain with 7% grade and sharp curves at both ends with cliff at both the turns. It is not me I am afraid of it is the crazies that forget they are driving on ice. The plows are going strong tonight and will keep at it. Bless them.
It really does seem much more "intimidating" when writing about it than it is in "real life".
Sorry if it's info overload but I do want you (and others) to have enough "info" to be able to avoid the questions that I and others have had in the beginning, and to avoid the mistakes we made at first.
What the heck is a "lancing device?"....does one come in the box or do I have to buy it extra?....what "guage" lancet do I need?....will a test strip from brand A work in brand B?...can I use a ketone test strip in x meter?....
In real life, if you just want to do BG testing for now, go online and get the Contour USB for free (be careful though, there are a bunch of different models called "contour xxx" (I suggest the USB)
or, go to WW and get the Relion Ultima if you "think" you might want to do K tests in the future (although it will be there later on). It'll cost you 20 bucks though and unless the "little version" is an actual WW - they won't have it since Relion is only available at WW.
I do think though that WW will "ship to home" so the jolly little UPS guy (or mail lady?) would handle it for you ("...not rain or sleet or snow.....") but that will add a few bucks too.
Like you, we too live in the country and "in the hill county" so while it's not 45 miles for us (more like 15-20), we are in the "snow belt" typically might get two feet when the "flatlanders" get a dusting and we had to commute everyday to work "down the mountain".
Don't miss that part of it even a little bit.
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No the little store 20 miles away is not WW so that is out.
Yes WW will ship. Might be worth is because I m not sure hubby will be in shape to go there with two appointments. He also gets overwhelmed when there is more then one thing to do.
Still snowing I am off to bed. Thanks so much
http://lb.511.idaho.gov/idlb/cameras/camera.jsf?id=90&view=state&text=m&textOnly=false0 -
GH;GaleHawkins wrote: »Testing my glucose and ketone levels was a pain in the figure but did help me gather some info for a couple weeks. It would have been nice to have had the meter and tested both before being LCHF for a few months.
Thankfully when I got my meter the first of this month I did not test insulin resistant but I may have been both leptin and insulin resistant but will never know now.
It was interesting to know my BG was 53 and 55 a couple times and I was going strong but the ketone level was around 2 which meant I was burning ketones for energy well I guess.
As long as the 53/55 was just a "couple times" I wouldn't be concerned but if it's below 55 too often/consistently, I might be.
55 is "generally" considered the bottom of "normal" range and 70-100 (fasting) - "ideal".
Extreme "lows" can be just as (if not more) "concerning" than the highs although either might indicate a hormonal imbalance that requires attention.
The good news though is that with B-OHB's of ~2.0, that's a good indication that your levels of insulin production/utilization are within acceptable ranges (otherwise ketone production would likely be inhibited).
Here's a very "general" article that might be of interest.
med.umich.edu/intmed/endocrinology/patients/Hypoglycemia.htm
Fairly consistent B-OHB levels of ~2.0 though, pretty much rule out any "...I guess(ing)..." about being firmly entrenched in ketosis and the fact you are measuring them and "know" that what you are doing is working (instead of having to "guess") is (for me at least) well worth the finger pricks.
I too wish I had started testing earlier and envy those low BG levels (working to get mine down from high 80's).
That we each actually "know" though, and can do what we have to do, is worth every dime - which is why I believe so firmly that simple testing is a "no-brainer".
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I am JUST starting to be worried about my glucose and metabolism of sugars and starch. I had a high (for me) fasting glucose and asked to have an A1C just for giggles since she doesn't think anything is wrong with me but I DO! If my fasting BG was always 80- 82 and it jumped to 104...Yes that is a sign something is wrong!
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Cindy I use Casein Protein Power most often vs. Whey Protein powder when I come up short on eating protein. I like Casein in that it breaks down over 7 hours vs. 3 hours for whey.
However Casein usage at bedtime will get my morning fasting BG figures more like 80-90 vs than my norm 60-70 range. A couple hours after a meal I am normally 100-130 BG when my blood ketones are averaging around 2.
I know you said Fasting but some report just a cup of black coffee can raise BG levels 20-30 points especially in the morning. I did not know this about caffeine in some people until just now.0 -
All I know of my BG is when I first went to the doctor and it was in one of the regular blood tests done it was 94. This was at least 3 hours after two cups of coffee with tsp sugar in each and peanut butter toast with a little jelly. I was not told to fast for the test. I did not even know what tests they were doing until I got the results back. I do know my LIPIDS were high. But some of that was because I was lacking thyroid for 7 years.0
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Cindy;I am JUST starting to be worried about my glucose and metabolism of sugars and starch. I had a high (for me) fasting glucose and asked to have an A1C just for giggles since she doesn't think anything is wrong with me but I DO! If my fasting BG was always 80- 82 and it jumped to 104...Yes that is a sign something is wrong!
104 isn't "bad" enough to push the panic button, but it is the upper level of the "ideal" range (as we now define it). Think of it more along the lines of the difference in BMI between 29.9 and 30.1. 29.9 and one is "just" overweight - 30.1 and they are "obese".
The "lines" are basically "artificial" and the pound or so that changes one's "status" hardly even noticeable let alone a "game changer".
So too with BG, 104 v 100 isn't a "cause for alarm" (as GH said, even 20-30 point changes can be expected in "normal" living).
BUT, I do agree that if you have "always" averaged 80-82 FBG (over a fairly long period of time) and that "average jumped to 104" (again, not just a day or two, but consistently and longer term) - I too would be concerned that "something" was going on and I'd want to know what it is - and why.
Most "typical" docs won't even raise an eyebrow until FBG's exceed 130 (the "old school" threshold). Current thinking though is that, much like their fixation on LDL levels, the "old way" of thinking is in serious need of modification.
If you haven't seen them, there are now "home testing" kits for A1C that are reportedly quite accurate and reasonably priced. Depending on one's health insurance situation, they may or may not be less expensive (out of pocket) than one ordered by the doc (although getting one a year from the doc is still a good idea if for no other reason than the "documentation").
The biggest advantage (of the home tests - IMO) though is that while most docs/ins co's are unlikely to "order" (and pay for) more than one a year prior to "diagnosing" T2D, with the home kits you can do 4 a year (every 90 days), and as with most testing, more data points DO increase accuracy and reliability and obviously give you that "heads up" that something may be amiss.
As I'm sure you know, the primary difference between A1C tests and standard BG testing is that A1C readings represent an "average" glucose level over the previous 90 days where daily testing is more "in the moment" and typically not more than the most recent 8hrs (FBG).
It's important to remember though, that just like BG, B-OHB, or many other testing protocols, any ONE test result is subject to considerable variations.
In fact, "most" docs will not diagnose based on the results of only one A1C test exceed the "threshold". Medical "best practices" calls for TWO, consecutive, A1C tests (at least 90 days apart) that exceed the limits.
If for no other reason than having to deal with the "limitations" imposed by insurance coverage AND "best practice", having a history of "home" results will tell YOU there's an "issue" and YOU are the one that matters (and cares) MOST.
I have no personal experience to relate regarding the use of the home tests since "my" BG numbers haven't indicated a need (at least "yet"), but I did research them for a friend and if I were to use one it would probably be this:
contournext.com/Blood-Glucose-Monitoring/ClassicMeters/A1CNow
The A1Cnow is available on amazon for ~$60 but that's for 2 tests, so $30/test or $60/yr to do 4 tests. There may be other sources but probably not too much variation in the prices.
As far as I know, at this point there are basically two available but things change every day so you might want to pay a visit to the googlemachine for the most recent info - if you are interested in pursuing the option.
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If we can get to WW tomorrow I will try to pick up the Relion Ultra. And the Glucose strips. I will work on that for now and wait on the keto strips. Maybe next trip down. I know it is important but I have bills this month.
Phew Glad I am done figuring that.
One little thing If the BG strips are outdated are then no good? I see them selling on Ebay past their expiration date.
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SOI;
My "guess" is that, as long as they are sealed, they're "probably" fine.
The strips are individually sealed in foil, air tight (and a PITA to open <g>), and I can't imagine why they would deteriorate although I suppose anything is possible.
I've seen those "outdated" ones as well but never purchased them so I can't tell you from personal experience but if the date was "expired" by only a couple months and the price difference enough I'd probably give it a shot with a small quantity.
From what I saw though, the price difference wasn't enough to justify the risk (whatever "risk" there is.)
The Relion Ultima strips at WW are 36 cents which is a pretty good price (and lower than almost any other meter strips) so use that as a guide for ebay prices.
When/if you do decide to get K-strips though, it's a different story. For those you absolutely want to go online.0 -
Gave up two drops of blood today for first time over holidays. Glucose fasting was 78 and ketone level was 0.8
I had a orange or two and a couple apples and several vegs long with some cranberry salad and knew from my breath analyzer my acetone level was down but a readable amount. Testing the blood ketone level this AM showed with it was lower than I liked yet it still was above the min threshold of .5 meant was still in mild ketosis. Now I know to tighten up on the carbs to work it back up to a 2.0 average ketone level. Glucose levels have been good since I started testing several weeks ago.
I had started cutting sugar the first of Aug but only went cold turkey on carbs 1st of Oct 2014. This means I have no base line BG readings before starting CLHF life style.
As a side note over Christmas when I had more carbs and my ketone level was down I found myself going off the deep end over some needless damage to the driver's door on the old Blazer. While it was short term and greatly upset me that I was less than cool this was the first time in a long time since getting and staying in nutritional ketosis with ketone levels averaging 2 that this has happened.
I do find a calming effect from averaging around a ketone level of 2 that I have not had in many years as a glucose burner and with high levels of arthritis pain that is now managed with my LCHF eating lifestyle.
I have been researching the down side to a LCHF diet over the holidays. While I have found more pluses I have not found any clear downside yet but I am still looking.
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Gale;GaleHawkins wrote: »Gave up two drops of blood today for first time over holidays. Glucose fasting was 78 and ketone level was 0.8
I had a orange or two and a couple apples and several vegs long with some cranberry salad and knew from my breath analyzer my acetone level was down but a readable amount. Testing the blood ketone level this AM showed with it was lower than I liked yet it still was above the min threshold of .5 meant was still in mild ketosis. Now I know to tighten up on the carbs to work it back up to a 2.0 average ketone level. Glucose levels have been good since I started testing several weeks ago.
I had started cutting sugar the first of Aug but only went cold turkey on carbs 1st of Oct 2014. This means I have no base line BG readings before starting CLHF life style.
As a side note over Christmas when I had more carbs and my ketone level was down I found myself going off the deep end over some needless damage to the driver's door on the old Blazer. While it was short term and greatly upset me that I was less than cool this was the first time in a long time since getting and staying in nutritional ketosis with ketone levels averaging 2 that this has happened.
I do find a calming effect from averaging around a ketone level of 2 that I have not had in many years as a glucose burner and with high levels of arthritis pain that is now managed with my LCHF eating lifestyle.
I have been researching the down side to a LCHF diet over the holidays. While I have found more pluses I have not found any clear downside yet but I am still looking.
0.8/78 is about as close to "ideal" as it gets.
My "understanding" is that while 0.5 is generally accepted as the bottom of the range, 0.8 is the point at which B-OHB levels enter the "really effective" zone and that once at or above 0.8 there is only a marginal increase in effectiveness with further increase.
While I continue to check BG daily (usually 1-FBG + 1 meal, pre, 1hr and 2 hr), I've backed off on the K tests to 1, sometimes 2, a week. I don't have a high degree of confidence in the Ketonix (as far as specific "numbers" go) but do find that as long as I get a reasonable number of "flashes" I can be pretty confident it's 0.8 or above.
That B-OHB levels affect so much more than just the fat "burning" quotient though, is now quite well known and accepted so my "gut" tells me that the correlation between higher B-OHB and your reaction seems entirely reasonable. Whether it applies to others as well (or not) is an interesting question but it wouldn't surprise me if it does.
Speaking of "gut", the whole issue of gut bacteria has elevated itself to joining my official list of "crusades" <g> - along with glucose, insulin, and carbs.
The science is still very much in its infancy (basically the last 10 years at most), and from what I've seen so far, there simply are not enough reliable, documented, and properly designed "controlled" studies completed yet to nail down many of the "details".
The one thing I do feel pretty confident about though is the nearly "superfood" qualities of vinegar (for promoting "good" gut bacteria) - which is a good thing for me since oil and vinegar on all types of salads has been a mainstay for me for as long as I can remember. (As a kid, my Dad and I would fight over the OV left in the bottom of the salad bowl<G>).
Someone (Frob?) recently suggested a book which I picked up yesterday and kept me up all night reading. I can't second the recommendation more highly (for those "addicted" to the "science").
tinyurl.com/n54r6bq
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Thanks for the comment on the really effective ketone level zone. There is so much to learn. The book looked interesting at a glance. I need to read up more on 'gut bacteria'.
Was organizing all of my keto book marks last night and deleted all of them. Well this time I will better know what book marks that are worth marking.
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Well I feel like I am bringing disappointment. I got to WW and the Relion Ultama says on the box it only does BG. Nothing about Ketones. I even discussed this with the pharmacist who went to talk to some one else. So I got skunked on that deal/ I was sure I read online it DID do the Blood Ketones but the strips were much more expensive. I also spoke to the pharmasscist at the smaller store and he said he did not believe there even was a machine that did both. So now I need to do some more researh on that and be sure before I jump in and buy it.
I did buy the ketone stix which I know you say are not good but at this point and the snow coming down we were ready to head to home. The stix I bought did have numbers under the low med high. So mine is at the low end of the 80 to 150.
This kind of tells me I can keep eating my veggies. I have never given them up. Not starch type veggies but broccoli and Brussels sprouts and zucchini.
I feel so disappointed. I do not know when we are going back to town. It was snowing all the way home. I have enough dog cat and people food. I am staying put for awhile. Sorry
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shadesofidaho wrote: »Well I feel like I am bringing disappointment. I got to WW and the Relion Ultama says on the box it only does BG. Nothing about Ketones. I even discussed this with the pharmacist who went to talk to some one else. So I got skunked on that deal/ I was sure I read online it DID do the Blood Ketones but the strips were much more expensive. I also spoke to the pharmasscist at the smaller store and he said he did not believe there even was a machine that did both. So now I need to do some more researh on that and be sure before I jump in and buy it.
I did buy the ketone stix which I know you say are not good but at this point and the snow coming down we were ready to head to home. The stix I bought did have numbers under the low med high. So mine is at the low end of the 80 to 150.
This kind of tells me I can keep eating my veggies. I have never given them up. Not starch type veggies but broccoli and Brussels sprouts and zucchini.
I feel so disappointed. I do not know when we are going back to town. It was snowing all the way home. I have enough dog cat and people food. I am staying put for awhile. Sorry
SOI;
The pharmacists are idiots (sorry, just no "nice" way to say it) - as long as it was the Ultima it DOES do ketones
tinyurl.com/m43yaka
As far as the styx goes, if you have been "in" for a while (VLC), darker (higher #'s, more purple) is NOT "better" ("usually" and for "most") so it's likely that you're probably fine but unfortunately with the styx you can't know for sure.
WW will be there next time you get to town so stay safe for now, pick one up the next time and enjoy the rest of the holidays!
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Thanks Deansdad. It is on my list for next time and I agree sometimes the pharmacists can not have all the answers. I talked to two of them today. So obviously WW does not have the ketone stix. I KNOW I saw them on Ebay last night when I was looking. Dang it I wish I trusted myself more.
I did read on the keto stix a high reading could be dangerous for diabetics. As far as I know I have not had an issue with high BS. I guess not all fat people are diabetics. I agree it will be interesting to see the facts.
I am supposed to get a thyroid blood test some time around the 16th of Jan. Not set in stone. Just when we get there.0 -
shadesofidaho wrote: »Thanks Deansdad. It is on my list for next time and I agree sometimes the pharmacists can not have all the answers. I talked to two of them today. So obviously WW does not have the ketone stix. I KNOW I saw them on Ebay last night when I was looking. Dang it I wish I trusted myself more.
I did read on the keto stix a high reading could be dangerous for diabetics. As far as I know I have not had an issue with high BS. I guess not all fat people are diabetics. I agree it will be interesting to see the facts.
I am supposed to get a thyroid blood test some time around the 16th of Jan. Not set in stone. Just when we get there.
High levels of ketones are only a concern for diabetics if their blood sugar is also high. Even then, you're talking ketone levels way over nutritional ketosis levels (15 vs 3 in whatever unit ketones are measured in, I forget offhand). The ketoacidosis situation is really only possible if your pancreas has completely shut down (ie - Type 1 Diabetes or late-stage Type 2 Diabetes).0 -
Thanks Dragonwolf for easing my brain on this one. I was not really worried yet because diabetes has never even been mentioned in my blood work. So I figure I am just throwing ketones in a good way. Another reason to get the meter is to test my hubby once in awhile because he has had part of his pancreas removed. As of now what it left is functioning enough to not give him diabetes. So the blood glucose monitor will be a tool we need in our house for both of us.0
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Just as a side note when my ketone level goes over 3 for some reason I seem to have less energy which I do not understand why. I know that is a safe level in my case.0
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GH;GaleHawkins wrote: »Just as a side note when my ketone level goes over 3 for some reason I seem to have less energy which I do not understand why. I know that is a safe level in my case.
Back in my aviation days, it was known as the,
"Back Side of the Power Curve"
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The basic difference is, if you DO want to be able to test for ketones, there are only two meters which will do both (Precision Xtra (abbott) and the Relion Ultima (wallyworld).
In fact they are EXACTLY the same meter (both made by Abbott, just different name for WW) and either one can use the strips from the other.
Are you sure the Relion Ultima glucose strips work with the Xtra?
I was thinking of doing an n=1 experiment based on one of the protein links posted yesterday in the other thread. Basically 4 groups of 5 days with same calories, but different amounts of protein. To see how my glucose response was to the varying amounts. Testing my fasting, 1 hr, 2 hr, and 4 hr glucose readings each day... then having a way to compare each.
5 days of 50g protein 200g fat
5 days of 100g protein 178g fat
5 days of 150g protein 156g fat
5 days of 200g protein 133g fat
My suspicion would be that my fasting glucose would be slightly higher for the high protein periods and I may get a slightly higher glucose increase from them. I wouldn't expect either to be significant. But, that's just my hypothesis. I would need to check that. I don't want to go and drop $40 on strips and then find they don't work with the meter I have.
Then I need to find a food that will be easy enough to hit make sure I hit the protein. The fat will likely have to come from bacon grease and/or butter to fill the rest in.0 -
Frob;The basic difference is, if you DO want to be able to test for ketones, there are only two meters which will do both (Precision Xtra (abbott) and the Relion Ultima (wallyworld).
In fact they are EXACTLY the same meter (both made by Abbott, just different name for WW) and either one can use the strips from the other.
Are you sure the Relion Ultima glucose strips work with the Xtra?
I was thinking of doing an n=1 experiment based on one of the protein links posted yesterday in the other thread. Basically 4 groups of 5 days with same calories, but different amounts of protein. To see how my glucose response was to the varying amounts. Testing my fasting, 1 hr, 2 hr, and 4 hr glucose readings each day... then having a way to compare each.
5 days of 50g protein 200g fat
5 days of 100g protein 178g fat
5 days of 150g protein 156g fat
5 days of 200g protein 133g fat
My suspicion would be that my fasting glucose would be slightly higher for the high protein periods and I may get a slightly higher glucose increase from them. I wouldn't expect either to be significant. But, that's just my hypothesis. I would need to check that. I don't want to go and drop $40 on strips and then find they don't work with the meter I have.
Then I need to find a food that will be easy enough to hit make sure I hit the protein. The fat will likely have to come from bacon grease and/or butter to fill the rest in.
"are you sure....?"
As sure as I can be without actually having physically purchased one myself and sticking in a strip - based on what I've read and was posted on JM's site.
I'm confident that, with the size of his audience, if were not true, someone would have said so by now - but just in case, next time I'm in wallyworld I'll pick one up so I can say it confidently from personal experience.
The meters are physically identical (except for color, markings) and AFAIK the "exact" same meter - both manufactured by Abbott on the same line and both using the exact (or each other "brand" strips, interchangeably. I've held them side by side, used the Ultima BG strips in my Xtra and the Xtra K strips in the Xtra (just not the Xtra K strips in the Ultima).
Strips are like razor blades where in the old days - only "gillette" blades would fit in a gillette razor so they basically gave you the razor for free so you'd have to buy their blades. What's old is new and all of the BG meters do essentially the same thing now.
BUT......be SURE it's the Ultima model and NOT one of others they have on display (and cheaper).
The strips (both BG and K) will ONLY work with the Ultima, not any of the other models.
Since it is the most expensive "starter kit" in the Relion line - the first couple times I looked for it (while waiting for the Xtra to arrive in the mail) it was not in stock. Each time I requested that they get some in and eventually they did.
When I originally had the same questions regarding the use of the Xtra strips (and specifically the K strips) I got the same song and dance from the "pharmacist" that SOI did.
Totally "wrong" info but presented as he "knew" it wouldn't work - so don't be surprised if you get the same.
If you can find the Xtra on the Abbott website with a link to the "free" offer - I would absolutely suggest you go that way but when I took a quick look recently I couldn't find it so it's entirely possible they pulled it, or that it's just "hidden" someplace I couldn't find.
My original link to the offer now redirects to the cheaper models (which also don't work with K strips) but even with that they are fine for BG although the Xtra does rate higher on the "accuracy and reliability" reviews I've seen.
For just BG I actually prefer the Contour USB but they are really a horse a piece, It is nice having more than one meter though but it does mean having different strips (for BG) so probably the most economical solution (if you wanted two meters), would be the Xtra (if you can get it "free"), AND the Ultima (which is <$20 for the "starter kit" at WW).
Regardless though, the Contour USB is still free (but it only does BG) here:
tinyurl.com/p2gnogs
In any case, you will need strips right off the bat and the Ultima strips at WW are about 35 cents (in the 100 box). It's unlikely that they will even have the K strips so you'll have to get them online for ~$2/ea (or in a local pharmacy for ~$5-6.00).
In the end, for K testing, either the Xtra or the Ultima are really the only choices.
There are a couple other meters that will test K's but from what I remember they're really not viable alternatives either for cost or accuracy.
I'm looking forward to the results of your N=1.
I've never done one with protein as the variable although I'd be willing to after we see your results, just to see what variation might exist between our two cases and if we can reasonably expect the results to be representative of more than just one or two individual cases.
While we continue to hold differing opinions on the whole protein issue, it is important that folks reading of our differences understand that we are coming at it from different perspectives (I think).
Mine focuses more on the impact of the gluconeogenetic process on k-levels and ultimately fat adaptation (and loss) which I know sounds somewhat out of character for me.
Quite frankly, I'd not considered the effects on BG levels (which is why I'm anxious to see your results) and how that might relate to insulin and IR levels.
As someone (DW?) previously, I really wish there was an economical, home test for insulin levels but to the best of my knowledge it simply doesn't exist.
The best we can do (at least for now) is the HbA1c test but that would be a "crap shoot" at best since it's basically a 90 day average and would be very difficult to determine any relationship to our short term N1 testing.
I did do a fairly comprehensive comparison between both the Ketonix and a cheaper BAC breath tester (and a couple days with the styx) v. measured K levels (with the Xtra).
Virtually no correlation that I could see with the BAC meter and a real 'stretch" to find one with the ketonix.
My conclusion was that the BAC was essentially worthless (on par with styx) and the Ketonix a VERY general "above 0.5" but with pretty much no (discernible) relationship as to "how much" above 0.5ish.
As you probably know, it's not really a "meter" in the sense that it returns an actual "number" (digital) as the Ultima/Xtra do - but rather an analog scale based on various colors and the number of "flashes".
One would "assume" that there should be at least "some" correlation between the various "ranges" displayed by the color/flash combinations as they are described as "low", medium, high (or something close) but if there is one, I couldn't find it.
There actually are some pretty good reasons why a direct correlation can't be made (and they do acknowledge it) having to do with the fact that both the breath and urine methods are testing levels of different k-bodies (not B-OHB), and while those "might" be an indicator for B-OHB (or might not) neither of those are really what we care about.
Long story short, as I know you've heard me preach before - for my money, blood B-OHB is the only way to go.
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If you've used the Ultima blood strips in the Xtra, that's all I need to know. I'm not thinking of buying the ketone strips for this experiment. I was just going to use the blood glucose. I could see if I could get the ketone strips, but they are cost-prohibitive for this experiment, at this time.
I already have the Xtra. I used to test blood ketones and glucose fairly regularly. I never noticed any effect with protein (except lower ketones... than when protein was low but still in ketosis (>0.5) at all times). I didn't strictly control it though. I was just going to go with the blood glucose response.
My theory, if you could call it one, is that high levels of protein intake, over a couple days, will raise the background glucose level to some degree and they may cause a slightly larger spike. I suspect both combined will still leave me well within the normal range. I think this slightly elevated base glucose level would be what is responsible for the degree in amount of ketosis. If it exists.
For example and pulling random numbers from thin air, say that my fasting glucose was 80 when eating 50g of protein a day. That 50g might cause it to jump up to 92 for a short period. Well, the fasting glucose may be 86 when eating 200g of protein a day, and it may jump up to 104 for a short period after consuming all that protein.
If we see a pattern like that, we could have some evidence that increased protein does have an effect on blood sugar that may effect ketosis. I am really curious about the fasting blood glucose. What I have read suggests that protein->glucose conversion seems to be slow and that the glucose is released over a long period of time.
It is something I would like to test. I wonder if the local walmart has those strips in stock. I would probably do this Sunday-Thursday with Friday/Saturday off between each cycle. So, it would take a while. Results wouldn't be in until around the 30th of January, at the earliest. I will definitely look into doing this.
I also may not be able to eat all that protein and fat at one meal. I typically eat 1 meal a day, but I don't know how I could get 200g of protein into one meal comfortably.
Using ground beef I would probably be able to do it. I would need to get some of the leaner stuff near the end.0 -
I would need to eat over 2lbs of 95/5 ground beef (plus 6 TBS of bacon grease) each day at the end to hit the right macros for the 200g. Certainly possible. Honestly, the 90% fat ratio of the 50g day worries me most. That's a lot of fat to get in.0
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Frob;If you've used the Ultima blood strips in the Xtra, that's all I need to know. I'm not thinking of buying the ketone strips for this experiment. I was just going to use the blood glucose. I could see if I could get the ketone strips, but they are cost-prohibitive for this experiment, at this time.
I already have the Xtra. I used to test blood ketones and glucose fairly regularly. I never noticed any effect with protein (except lower ketones... than when protein was low but still in ketosis (>0.5) at all times). I didn't strictly control it though. I was just going to go with the blood glucose response.
My theory, if you could call it one, is that high levels of protein intake, over a couple days, will raise the background glucose level to some degree and they may cause a slightly larger spike. I suspect both combined will still leave me well within the normal range. I think this slightly elevated base glucose level would be what is responsible for the degree in amount of ketosis. If it exists.
For example and pulling random numbers from thin air, say that my fasting glucose was 80 when eating 50g of protein a day. That 50g might cause it to jump up to 92 for a short period. Well, the fasting glucose may be 86 when eating 200g of protein a day, and it may jump up to 104 for a short period after consuming all that protein.
If we see a pattern like that, we could have some evidence that increased protein does have an effect on blood sugar that may effect ketosis. I am really curious about the fasting blood glucose. What I have read suggests that protein->glucose conversion seems to be slow and that the glucose is released over a long period of time.
It is something I would like to test. I wonder if the local walmart has those strips in stock. I would probably do this Sunday-Thursday with Friday/Saturday off between each cycle. So, it would take a while. Results wouldn't be in until around the 30th of January, at the earliest. I will definitely look into doing this.
I also may not be able to eat all that protein and fat at one meal. I typically eat 1 meal a day, but I don't know how I could get 200g of protein into one meal comfortably.
Using ground beef I would probably be able to do it. I would need to get some of the leaner stuff near the end.
I'll start paying a little closer attention to P v. FBG readings.
I haven't had anything "jump out" at me, but to be honest, I really haven't been "looking for it" either and my daily levels of both C & P tend to remain fairly constant.
Total Carbs generally in the 15 neighborhood and P bouncing around 60-70 but with more frequent "forays" (than with carbs) to 40 or over 100.
It's actually be quite a while since I've calculated averages so those are both really "guesses".
I do watch (most of the time) and try to "make up for" the wide variation days the following day or two but not with any real "eye" to keeping long term averages as close to the targets as I should so until I go back and compare results it's really just a "gut" "guess".
All that said though, I'm really pretty much on "auto-pilot" as far as feeding goes.
I have hit a wall to some degree which has lasted longer than I'd like so I (sort of) decided to go to one meal as well, and probably throw in a 24-36 hr IF (500C<) a day or two a week when I get the urge.
It's the "last 15" though, and really last 5 (to my original goal) + 10 more for "good measure" (just to see if I can), so I'm thinking my body just got it in it's head that "enough is enough" and decided to put it's foot down at the original 5 <VBG>
So far, so good getting past the holidays, but loving my new CI braiser just a little too much - especially the braising liquid (good dose of wine) and cheese sauces it refuses to stop "creating".
hummmmm.....might have to "revisit" that 1 meal a day thing. Visions of my morning omelette slathered in the leftover fat/wine/cheese sauce - dancing in my head!
Enjoy NY's Eve - Italian buffet for us (with the biggest "Steamboat Round" you ever saw in your life and a chef/server who not only "loves" his job - but "owes" me (and I FULLY intend to "collect").
Happy NEW YEAR to all!!!
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Picked up 10 lbs of 73/27 beef today. I also got 100 of the strips. So, I am set to start. I tested my blood sugar with one of the strips (to make sure they work). It worked just fine. I pulled an 80 (non-fasting).
I May have to make some changes to the amounts I plan. I am hesitant to go as low as 50g because it is below my minimum. I might go with the minimum. And then do 3x that for the max... Or maybe double my max. I need to figure it out.0
This discussion has been closed.