Test your Blood Sugar Today?
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Picked up 10 lbs of 73/27 beef today. I also got 100 of the strips. So, I am set to start. I tested my blood sugar with one of the strips (to make sure they work). It worked just fine. I pulled an 80 (non-fasting).
I May have to make some changes to the amounts I plan. I am hesitant to go as low as 50g because it is below my minimum. I might go with the minimum. And then do 3x that for the max... Or maybe double my max. I need to figure it out.
Frob;
Hope you enjoy the 73/27 - we LOVE it! First time we've had burger that tastes like those from our youth for as long as we can remember (not like cardboard - Fat is KING!!
I was sure the Ultima strips would work in your Xtra - that's all we've been using for quite a while now. WW prices are good on them too, you can save a couple bucks online (sometimes) but it's hardly worth it unless you go with expired xtra strips or grab a really big quantity.
You know you best but 50g wouldn't concern me. Once things settle down around here (if there's time before we leave for MX) I might be able to get a week where I could give it a shot, but a week would be the max so probably better if I hold off until we get back.
Didn't think about it until late last night, but looking back the week I did the egg "fast" my protein levels must have been off the charts (for me) - not sure if I was doing daily K tests then or not though.
Just not enough hours in a day......keep working because this retirement thing is REALLY "taxing" - time wise <g>.
Kidding aside, we keep looking at each other and saying "how did we EVER manage to get all this stuff done when we were working?" <VBG>
We "volunteered" for it though so, and somebody has to do it........(."pick me, pick me......")<G>
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I bought a Relion Ultima awhile back b/c paying full price for the strips is still cheaper than the brands my insurance covers. I had no idea it could also do ketones, I can't imagine checking ketons frequently b/c the ketone strips cost so much, but I'll get some just to satisfy my curiosity now!0
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Rad;I bought a Relion Ultima awhile back b/c paying full price for the strips is still cheaper than the brands my insurance covers. I had no idea it could also do ketones, I can't imagine checking ketons frequently b/c the ketone strips cost so much, but I'll get some just to satisfy my curiosity now!
For the K strips, buy those ONLINE NOT in retail drug store.
$5 - $6 retail at drug stores, you can find them online for ~$2 (still not exactly "cheap" but a whole lot better than retail).
The Abbott Xtra strips work just fine in Relion Ultima. (both BG and K)
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deansdad101 wrote: »Hope you enjoy the 73/27 - we LOVE it! First time we've had burger that tastes like those from our youth for as long as we can remember (not like cardboard - Fat is KING!!
I do like the 73/27. I buy it as my preferred ground beef. It also helps that it is cheap. It won't work for the high protein days, unless I also go for high calories.You know you best but 50g wouldn't concern me. Once things settle down around here (if there's time before we leave for MX) I might be able to get a week where I could give it a shot, but a week would be the max so probably better if I hold off until we get back.
There is some reason to believe that those eating zero-carb have higher base protein needs than those just doing keto. This is primarily for the reason I'm exploring, we use some of the protein we eat to manufacture the necessary blood glucose. Even when keto-adapted, there is a fixed amount of glucose needed by the body. That said, 50g is probably enough. But, I would rather go with 75g (which is closer to my minimum). I think we could both agree that this amount would be considered adequate and not excessive.
I am thinking:
5 days @ 75g protein
2 days -- break
5 days @ 225g protein
Both of those at 2000 calories a day. I'll be taking blood sugar readings when I wake up. And, I will also take them after eating at 1, 2, and 4 hour intervals. For the second one, I may have to break it into two meals (as eating 3 pounds of ground beef at a time is hard). We could both agree that 225g would be providing me with plenty of excess protein.
While I am interested in the rise after eating, I am mainly interested in seeing if the average fasting glucose goes up when eating more protein.
It's a stripped down version of my original plan. But, based on the results, I could always go and test other amounts.0 -
Frob;deansdad101 wrote: »Hope you enjoy the 73/27 - we LOVE it! First time we've had burger that tastes like those from our youth for as long as we can remember (not like cardboard - Fat is KING!!
I do like the 73/27. I buy it as my preferred ground beef. It also helps that it is cheap. It won't work for the high protein days, unless I also go for high calories.You know you best but 50g wouldn't concern me. Once things settle down around here (if there's time before we leave for MX) I might be able to get a week where I could give it a shot, but a week would be the max so probably better if I hold off until we get back.
There is some reason to believe that those eating zero-carb have higher base protein needs than those just doing keto. This is primarily for the reason I'm exploring, we use some of the protein we eat to manufacture the necessary blood glucose. Even when keto-adapted, there is a fixed amount of glucose needed by the body. That said, 50g is probably enough. But, I would rather go with 75g (which is closer to my minimum). I think we could both agree that this amount would be considered adequate and not excessive.
I am thinking:
5 days @ 75g protein
2 days -- break
5 days @ 225g protein
Both of those at 2000 calories a day. I'll be taking blood sugar readings when I wake up. And, I will also take them after eating at 1, 2, and 4 hour intervals. For the second one, I may have to break it into two meals (as eating 3 pounds of ground beef at a time is hard). We could both agree that 225g would be providing me with plenty of excess protein.
While I am interested in the rise after eating, I am mainly interested in seeing if the average fasting glucose goes up when eating more protein.
It's a stripped down version of my original plan. But, based on the results, I could always go and test other amounts.
Agree completely on the min gluco requirement and I can't put my hands on it at the moment but I think I recall seeing someplace that even with 0 dietary carbs it was something under 50 (for most) but not sure.
I have seen numbers for both the % of total energy that goes directly to fuel the brain,(which is higher than most believe), and for the % of that % that must be glucose (which is relatively low and will be met by gluconeo if dietary carb shortfall exists) so I suppose it should be fairly easy to at least estimate a range.
My concerns have always been on the other end - gluconeo overproducing gluco (beyond min req'd) and defeating the efforts of LC re NK/FA.
I'll keep my eyes open for the cites and I don't think we're all that far off as far as the range goes. Still believe that 150 is higher than I'd rec for "most" folks although I agree that for newbs starting out with levels at or above that would be fine as long as the plan was simultaneous reduction of P and increase F.
I'm still convinced that much like the carb loading mantra of old, much of the p-level thinking is a carry over from the gym. (and I basically discount the "elite" athletes assuming that the vast majority of LCD'ers are more concerned with health benefits and weight loss outcomes than body building or marathons but of course we always need to include the "disclaimer".
No question though that you're right about there being a 'too low" number and I think in the end (between your N=1 and whatever we can find from the current research) we are going to be able to narrow the "range" somewhat.
Also no question though that much like carbs the "range" will also have to take into consideration the variations in individual's resistance and threshold levels.
BTW, my bad - I just looked up my last BG strip purchase and actually was a better price on ebay $25/100 delivered, relion, seller was timbargins123 but none currently.
I think you'll find that the pre, 1, and 2hr post will be enough (should be back to pre at 2hrs) at low P in (and if not there's something else going on), but it will be interesting to see if that holds at the mega P levels.
I agree that 225 in one sitting will be tough but I think, if you can figure out a way to do it (p-shakes maybe?) at least a couple days, that would be the test we'd really like to see because if the BG isn't back to pre-meal levels at hr2 (and it is (for you) back at the low P days) - that could be a meaningful finding.
Average fasting BG levels is an important parameter and that info alone will indeed be interesting to see but I think it's equally important to try (somehow, wish I could come up with a method) to take into consideration the duration of the elevated BG levels (if there are elevated levels). FBG, given the "cooling off" time (8 hrs) returning to "normal" levels "might" indicate that the higher P intake is being dealt with overnight (and not "building up" in the bloodstream, or that the glucose produced was metabolized during the night and consumed as brain food but we don't know anything about K levels or what portion of the gluconeo sugar was stored (which I don't think there is any way we can determine).
Depending on what you see resulting from the testing procedure you designed, I think the next step would have to add BOHB testing into the mix since that's one variable we can test for.
When I get back, depending on what you find on the first round, I could do a week at my "normal" P intake with FBG and K tests daily, and then a week at elevated P (as high as I can take<g>) with the same. What I'd really like to find is the point at which higher P kicks me out (as well as the change in average FBG's.
Assuming we are correct that for "most" there's going to be an absolute minimum P somewhere around 50-60g/day and an upper limit (beyond which any "normal" person simply can't eat, detrimental or not), AND there is an inflection point somewhere in between where FA can't be maintained (if it's due to gluconeo) - that's the number we really want to know.
Next thing would be to try and nail down how much that number varies by individual.
Of course "most" people aren't going to do 225 in one sitting and one thing to look for would be if, when spread out over the day, there's a general elevation of BG levels (225p v. 50-75) or not, or if the 2hr return to pre starts moving out with overall intake. The "time" x "rate" and "volume" of gluconeo isn't something I've seen much discussion of and wouldn't have a clue where to find.
Once again, not being able to home test insulin levels makes it still just a supposition as to what's keeping the BG level elevated longer. Seems reasonable to "assume" that the excess P would require more time for gluconeog to pump out the sugar - but there are other variables going on at the same time that would be affecting it as well and while BG is good indicator for B-OHB levels I just don't know enough about how the gluconeo mechanism works to hazard a guess as to how much/hr or even how much of the excess might be excreted vs converted.
Sorry for the rambling, but each "solution" seems to bring up another "problem" - just too many things going on at once. For example, we haven't even considered the impact of varying levels of dietary carbs and that's going to be a "biggie".
The one thing that we do know would be a pretty safe bet though is that "if" BG levels are averaging higher and longer times, that's not a good sign - even if we can't determine exactly why.
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Yeah, I am more interested in the higher end than the lower end. I doubt people with sub-100g protein consumption are at risk for kicking themselves out. There is an absolute minimum, but you'd probably have to try and get there. Lyle says 50g is enough to meet all glucose requirements for the body, I assume that is based on no other carb source. So, 50g is probably fine.
I have been tracking today, just to see. I ate 80-90g of protein around 7pm. There was nothing between my lunch and that.
* 3pm: 80 (non-fasted... but only coffee, cream, and maybe 4 oz of steak for lunch)
* 7pm: __ (didn't take reading-consumed ~1 lb of chuck roast with some spicy mayo to dip it in)
* 8pm: 90 (10 pts... not that bad)
* 9pm: 98 (total of 18 pts... pretty much in the expected range)
* 10pm: 91 (ok... we're dropping back down)
* 11pm: 100 (???) <- this second spike was unexpected
* 12am: 89 (back down)
I am going to try again at 12pm... see if it's still up or going back down. I'm watching parks and rec... so I may stay up for a while and see if I can get a "random day" done. In about 20 minutes... we'll get a 5 hr reading.
I would like to see how long it remains elevated. And, we'll see if tomorrow the fasting is higher.
Granted, this is a BIG serving of protein for most people. Few people eat a whole pound of meat in a sitting. And, my glucose hasn't really risen about the levels expected in a non-diabetic fasting person. Even the most recent spike isn't that high, compared to a meal with carbs.
Edit: Add midnight0 -
Switching gears......
A couple recent posts on another group made me focus on the fact that even among those that actually "have to" measure BG's multiple times a day (T1 & 2's), there is an amazing amount of misunderstanding and confusion as to exactly "what" the different numbers mean.
While I'm surprised by it, I DON'T "blame" the individuals. On the contrary the "blame" belongs laid at the feet of the medical "professionals" who fail to adequately inform their patients of the detail or ship them off to a "diabetes expert" who reads from some ADA webpage which is just as likely to parrot the "company line" - (sensing a "theme" here?)
So, if even for those where it really IS a very serious matter in their everyday lives aren't aware of many of the details, it stands to reason that folks who are looking into BG/K testing here for the first time, might not be as well.
Maybe my reply in that thread might help, here it is:
(question)
I was diagnosed 3 months ago with type 2. I test my blood each day. My doctor eventually wants my numbers to be between 4-6. How come all of your numbers are in the 100's? Is it something different that you guys test? Sorry that probably seems like a stupid question! This is all very new and confusing to me!
(reply below)
The "numbers" are simply different scales of measurement. (Think of kilometers/hr and miles/hr). 150k/h = ~93mph. The car is going the same speed just shows two different numbers depending on which speedometer you look at.
While, technically, mg/dl (milligrams/deciliter), and mmol/l (millimoles/liter), aren't exactly the same (mg is "weight", mmol is "molarity"), they are close enough for our purposes.
In the US mg/dl (the 100's numbers) is the norm, most of the rest of the world uses mmol/l as the standard.
It's not an "exact" conversion, but as a rule of thumb, you can multiply mmol numbers (the 4-10's) times 18 to convert to mgs.
So if the "normal" ranges are 70-130 mg/dl (US),
the equivalent in ROW would be ~3.9-7.2 mmol/l
A 180 pp "max" = 10mmol/l
(10 x 18=180)
Likewise, A1C can be measured in varying units %, mmol, or mg/dl. and can be converted, one to another.
Again not "exact" but close enough for gov't work.
A1C 6% = 126mg/dl = 7.0mmol/l
If you are, (or anyone else is), interested in a more "detailed" (and much longer <g>) discussion of BG testing, and tools - have a look at this thread:
Tested your BG Today?0 -
What's interesting, to me, was my morning fasting glucose was 98 today. That's a true fasting one (16-17 hours after my last meal). I will try and get a baseline over the next few days. Could it be that my fasting glucose just varies between 80-100? If it does, is there any point with my experiment? If all the measured "increases" fall within the variation between my normal fasting levels?
Time will tell.
Edit: I am not concerned about a fasting of 98, even though it's high. Those on very low carb diets are known to have higher than average fasting glucose readings, so being around 100 isn't unusual or a concern.0 -
Frob;What's interesting, to me, was my morning fasting glucose was 98 today. That's a true fasting one (16-17 hours after my last meal). I will try and get a baseline over the next few days. Could it be that my fasting glucose just varies between 80-100? If it does, is there any point with my experiment? If all the measured "increases" fall within the variation between my normal fasting levels?
Time will tell.
Edit: I am not concerned about a fasting of 98, even though it's high. Those on very low carb diets are known to have higher than average fasting glucose readings, so being around 100 isn't unusual or a concern.
From my experience, a 10 point "range" (variation) is about as exact as it gets (home or in the docs office) - it's more a function of the body than it is an "accuracy" issue with the various meters (although there IS very good evidence that some meters are more accurate than others and you have one of the best).
So while I don't think it renders your testing "not worth doing" - only that the results have to take into consideration that there will be some "variation" in the numbers which simply reflects the degree to which we are able to measure.
I'd disagree somewhat with the "Those on very low carb diets are known to have higher than average fasting glucose readings" statement, though.
Depends, (IMO) on who you listen to and how "VLC" is defined, ("experts" on both sides), and while I absolutely agree that the statement applies to "some", my belief is that it's "some" but not "most".
All things being equal (which they never are of course), I'm typically 80-90"ish" FBG but just yesterday "spiked" well above my mean to 116 but chalked that up to NYE "excesses" and lack of sleep.
I like to see (and would love to be able to reproduce consistently) numbers in the 80's with a long term goal of pushing that down to the 70's) but at the same time, 98 or even the occasional 116 isn't (IMO) any cause for alarm.
If it "stayed" up there for more than a week or so, I'd probably be reaching for the panic button but a day or two - naah.
I think what you'll find as you return to testing on a daily basis is that the "averages" will probably smooth out until you introduce a real change in one pattern (like P levels in this case or carbs, or exercise, for sure).
My "guess" is, when introducing a significant change in diet (all else kept constant as much as possible), the first couple days will probably show hills and valleys but then "settle in" to a range similar (in deviation, not absolute numbers), as existed prior.
Over time, I do think the "averages" though would move to the degree that the "effect" of the change would be noticeable and reasonably considered to be the "result" of the change.
How long it would take, and to what degree we could "assume" the change in the average (IF there is one large enough to measure with a fair degree of certainty) is the question.
Without doing the N=1 (or having a "real", well designed, clinical study where the question is isolated) - we'll never know, so yes, I DO think it's worth it.
Possibility exists, of course that we "might" still not know much more than we do now after the N=1 but such is the "risk" one takes with any of this stuff.
Never know if we don't at least try.
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Frob;
Forgot to add that there's a growing body of opinion that FBG isn't really all it's cracked up to be. (let alone the mad dash to break out the script pad)
Meaning that while one absolutely "should" measure and pay attention to significant changes and trends, it's MUCH less important than the PP (post prandial) numbers.
The 1hr PP "spike" as well as the 2hr (ideally returning to "pre") are MUCH better indicators of both IR and carb tolerance capabilities and responses.
Not sure exactly why FBR has assumed such a role of dominance but if I had to hazard a guess, I think it might have to do, not as much with the "highs" as it does with overnight "lows" (which for T1's especially, can be MUCH more dangerous - even life threatening).
At least to some degree, this is what was influencing my thinking as to "splitting up" the massive P intake levels over two (or more) meals - changes the dynamics of the experiment.
It's also (although in a somewhat different vein), at least part of the reason I question the whole "net" carbs and "GI" mentality.
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Happy New Year to all
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deansdad101
As far as testing, my suggestion would be (to start off)
Test "fasting" BG (first thing when you get up) daily
Test "before" a meal,
1 hr after the meal,
2 hrs after the meal
THANK YOU!!! so much deansdad 101for this advise
I am borderline or prediabetic
my doctor told me to test glucose before meal and test it again 2 hours after meal
she want to put me on the pills
testing 2 hours after meal was always borderline 7.1-7.8
but testing 1 hour after meal showed me which food to avoid
rice=12.4, pizza = 9.9 , ciabatta bun =10.4, spaghetti =10.2, apple 8.4
I had 1 cup of milk before bed thinking it was only a protein
wrong!
morning fasting glucose was 8.4!
now I am in range 6.2-6.9 before meals
hopefully with low carbs, low sugar and some fasting
I could lower glucose even more
eating bigger meal 2-3 x a day is better for me0 -
EAVA;Happy New Year to all
Re:
deansdad101
As far as testing, my suggestion would be (to start off)
Test "fasting" BG (first thing when you get up) daily
Test "before" a meal,
1 hr after the meal,
2 hrs after the meal
THANK YOU!!! so much deansdad 101for this advise
I am borderline or prediabetic
my doctor told me to test glucose before meal and test it again 2 hours after meal
she want to put me on the pills
testing 2 hours after meal was always borderline 7.1-7.8
but testing 1 hour after meal showed me which food to avoid
rice=12.4, pizza = 9.9 , ciabatta bun =10.4, spaghetti =10.2, apple 8.4
I had 1 cup of milk before bed thinking it was only a protein
wrong!
morning fasting glucose was 8.4!
now I am in range 6.2-6.9 before meals
hopefully with low carbs, low sugar and some fasting
I could lower glucose even more
eating bigger meal 2-3 x a day is better for me
So glad it helped and thank YOU for posting the detailed results.
Testing matters and you've demonstrated exactly why.
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