Squat depth
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MissHolidayGolightly wrote: »Is your lower leg short in relation to your upper leg (as in imbalanced)? I would think short legs overall shouldn't affect your ability to squat but perhaps it might make it difficult if part of your leg is unusually short.
This is kind of what I'm thinking. Hence, research.
And THANK YOU to everyone for all of your suggestions and feedback. I've got a lot to play with now.
xo0 -
I was squatting over 200# and patting myself on the back when... husband finally convinced me by videoing my form. Let's just say it was horrible.
This was my workout tonight. I am glad I checked it out, take a deload and do it right. I use 2 cans of paint stacked on top of each other as kind of a guide because I work out alone. I think I am going to continue using it for my warm-ups for a while, just so getting to depth feels natural.0 -
I've also taken a lot of weight off to get depth. It's hard to correct form - I wish I'd done more research when I started lifting (not that I didn't do any).
How tall are you crabada? I'm 5'5" - my feet only just touch the ground on bench - tip toes. My bench isn't wide/ long enough for me to get my feet up. It sure is awkward (aka designed for a dude). I can still get parallel though.... atg without a bar, but parallel is my aim for heavy squats. I agree it is hard to tell yourself. My gym also only has mirrors in front of the rack, so you can't get a side on view which is in essence the most helpful. I'm too nervous to video it in my gym - I'd have to ask a stranger.... nah0 -
I'm 5' 4" in my sneaks.
I have videoed myself, which is how I know I'm not getting parallel. I think I need to kind of just start over from scratch with squats and try all the lovely suggestions given here. But it took me so damn long to get my shoulders to the point I could even get under the bar that I'm obviously reticent to give them up.
I'll figure something out in this next week and then you can all look forward to even wordier daily check-ins from me.
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I've also taken a lot of weight off to get depth. It's hard to correct form - I wish I'd done more research when I started lifting (not that I didn't do any).
How tall are you crabada? I'm 5'5" - my feet only just touch the ground on bench - tip toes. My bench isn't wide/ long enough for me to get my feet up. It sure is awkward (aka designed for a dude). I can still get parallel though.... atg without a bar, but parallel is my aim for heavy squats. I agree it is hard to tell yourself. My gym also only has mirrors in front of the rack, so you can't get a side on view which is in essence the most helpful. I'm too nervous to video it in my gym - I'd have to ask a stranger.... nah
Where are you putting your foot on bench? Ideally you want them closer to your head, but that depends a lot on mobility. I would think though at 5'5" unless you have a super long torso that you could get them down with the right positioning, and be able to use leg drive. It's pretty easy to film yourself on lifts if you prop your phone against a multitude of surfaces. I put my phone in my shoe. (I wear different shoes than I lift in to the gym.)
Crabada would you feel comfortable posting your videos for a form check? Sometimes others can see things you're missing in form, and that can make all the difference in a lift.
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you can all look forward to even wordier daily check-ins from me.
yay. i'm trying to figure out the tradeoff between buttwink and depth. i'm not even confident i know what buttwink is - in the sense i don't know how much leeway you have before someone's pointing and yelling the word. some images for the correct form show a definite flexion in the lower spine, some show the entire spine as level and say that's just fine . . . i just wish they'd all get together and pick one single story to tell.
#grumble.
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Fittreelol wrote: »Crabada would you feel comfortable posting your videos for a form check? Sometimes others can see things you're missing in form, and that can make all the difference in a lift.
Assuming you're talking about squats here, since I definitely don't need a video to tell me that my feet can't touch the ground from bench.
And maybe, but not yet. I want to try some of the suggestions here and see if any of them help first. No use having everyone repeat themselves before I even get a chance to make adjustments. But thanks for the offer -- sincerely. xo0 -
Fittreelol wrote: »Crabada would you feel comfortable posting your videos for a form check? Sometimes others can see things you're missing in form, and that can make all the difference in a lift.
Assuming you're talking about squats here, since I definitely don't need a video to tell me that my feet can't touch the ground from bench.
And maybe, but not yet. I want to try some of the suggestions here and see if any of them help first. No use having everyone repeat themselves before I even get a chance to make adjustments. But thanks for the offer -- sincerely. xo
Oh and I should add if one's feet can't touch on bench placing a couple 45lb plates on the ground will enable you to reach the ground and get proper leg drive.0 -
Crabada, I am only 4'9" with quite short legs and I don't think I have a problem with depth because of it. "Butt wink" is a whole other problem though. I have videoed myself doing tons of squats including bodyweight and I just can't seem to stop it. I never feel it so I just don't know what to do.
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Fittreelol wrote: »Oh and I should add if one's feet can't touch on bench placing a couple 45lb plates on the ground will enable you to reach the ground and get proper leg drive.
Yup - I currently stack three 25 lbs. plates under each foot.
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I took the night off from strict 5x5 tonight and just played with my squats for a bit. Bear with me while I talk this out, and thanks in advance for feedback and suggestions.
I did my bar-only warmups, and then 1x5 @ 95 lbs. They felt harder than I would have liked (I think two *seriously* lazy days is the culprit here), so instead of moving up, I decided to just futz around with form and see what was what.
At that point, I did some body weight squats. I cannot break what I see as parallel (when looking in the mirror and comparing crease to knees) while doing these without a wider stance than usual and without holding on to something. At least not with my feet flat on the ground. As I said in another post, in order to get to where that crease is below my knees, I am in what I would consider pretty much an *kitten*-to-grass position -- which, when I see others doing this, looks like it is considerably below parallel. I will continue to play with BW squats at home to try to feel my way through each body part and what's happening where.
My gym doesn't have boxes, so I moved one of the benches into the rack to use that as a gauge. I have NO problem hitting the bench doing squats. In fact, I definitely get lower during my normal squats. This very well may have to do with the fact that I have a rather large caboose, so my *kitten* hits that bench well before I get all that low in the squat position.
Then I did 5x5 at 75 lbs (big deload from my current working set of 125 lbs.) just to watch my knees, feel for butt wink, etc. From what I saw and felt, my knees are not caving inwards, they are not going too far over my feet, the bar is staying basically over mid-foot, and there is no butt wink. I did video the 1x5 @ 65 lbs. set and the first of the 1x5 @ 75 lbs. and honestly, my form looks pretty good to me. And I honestly feel like I'd be my own worst critic here, so that's saying something. (Sorry -- I cannot bring myself to post them, because, man, do I look huuuuge.)
I also did a little research and it appears that my tibia is likely not shorter than average, or short relative to my femur, so that's not something I'm considering as an issue anymore.
So, thoughts from all this:
- My considerable body fat is skewing the visual and I am in fact getting below parallel, and/or it's keeping me from getting parallel, but I am at least getting as low as I can for now.
- I will continue playing with my stance to see if a wider one helps with depth -- though I do have some hesitation here due to the adductor issue of days of yore, which has only improved since I narrowed my stance.
- I need to work on hip flexibility -- something I've known for ages -- and will watch to see how this affects my squats.
OK, your turn. Thoughts?
And again, thanks!
xo,
C.0 -
so my *kitten* hits that bench well before I get all that low in the squat position..
i had this idea too after thinking about how it goes with me, but you beat me to it. as far as the stance width - is your adductor nervous even if you make sure to keep your feet parallel? i don't understand why, but since my latest round of shoulder-back rehab, *plus* the little muscle oops that i had before xmas, suddenly my hips seem to want my feet turned outwards at 30 degrees. with the narrow parallel stance that i've used forever, i'm suddenly falling over backwards half the time, go figure.
i'm not giving them what they want during actual squats. but i am spending quite a lot of warmup/stretch time basically in an atg sumo/frog pose, with my hands wrapped around my feet and my elbows pushing my knees out as well. it's for flexibility but i do quite a few bodyweight reps that way too, because a) it seems to help with the real squats and b) inner-thigh blobs.
i really like your constant willingness to take something apart and tinker with it to make it better, btw.
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canadianlbs wrote: »as far as the stance width - is your adductor nervous even if you make sure to keep your feet parallel?
Not sure 100% what you're asking here. But I'll answer anyway. Adductor bothered me before when I had a wide stance, with feet turned out. I've narrowed my stance to just past shoulder-width, with feet turned out about 30 degrees, and adductor is fine. I'm going to play with this next time, widening with each set probably, and see what it does to my depth and knee position.canadianlbs wrote: »i really like your constant willingness to take something apart and tinker with it to make it better, btw.
Haha! You are the QUEEN of this. Totally my inspiration for not just plowing through 5x5 tonight. WWCanadianLbsD?
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Fittreelol wrote: »I've also taken a lot of weight off to get depth. It's hard to correct form - I wish I'd done more research when I started lifting (not that I didn't do any).
How tall are you crabada? I'm 5'5" - my feet only just touch the ground on bench - tip toes. My bench isn't wide/ long enough for me to get my feet up. It sure is awkward (aka designed for a dude). I can still get parallel though.... atg without a bar, but parallel is my aim for heavy squats. I agree it is hard to tell yourself. My gym also only has mirrors in front of the rack, so you can't get a side on view which is in essence the most helpful. I'm too nervous to video it in my gym - I'd have to ask a stranger.... nah
Where are you putting your foot on bench? Ideally you want them closer to your head, but that depends a lot on mobility. I would think though at 5'5" unless you have a super long torso that you could get them down with the right positioning, and be able to use leg drive. It's pretty easy to film yourself on lifts if you prop your phone against a multitude of surfaces. I put my phone in my shoe. (I wear different shoes than I lift in to the gym.)
I just have tip toes on the floor.... should I not? 0 -
My gym doesn't have boxes, so I moved one of the benches into the rack to use that as a gauge. I have NO problem hitting the bench doing squats. In fact, I definitely get lower during my normal squats. This very well may have to do with the fact that I have a rather large caboose, so my *kitten* hits that bench well before I get all that low in the squat position.
body fat will alter the visuals a bit for sure. How high was that bench compared to your tibia? There's a slight chance here you might be hung up on something that's not really a problem at all! Can you feel your calves touching your thighs when you squat? While that is not in itself a very good indicator of depth, it can mean that your depth is a bit limited. I've seen it in my lil sister when I was checking her squat form. She doesn't get very low, but when I made her sit back with a counter balance, it was pretty clear she couldn't really go much further without something else moving to make the lower angle possible - but her knees were as bent as they could be. A wide stance will clear some thigh fat out of the way, in a way, but if you're not comfortable in it it's not worth the extra depth IMO. Adductors... and I have never been friends. (Pulled my groin playing soccer when I was younger, kind of pushed through it to finish the season, then potato-ed my way through college. It never had a proper rehab and now it's still weak and stupid xD)
Also, squats with the bar will always (have the ability to) be deeper than bodyweight squats on their own without a counter-balance or some assistance (wall, pillar, box to sit on) simply because the bar will move forward to counterbalance the weight of your buttocks sitting back. As your core gets stronger the limitation will be lesser, but it's still harder to do ATG bodyweight squats. Basically, if you can break parallel with your bw squat, you *should* be golden with the bar!0 -
I just have tip toes on the floor.... should I not?
Short answer: that depends. Are you able to get sufficient leg drive when benching? If so that is fine. If you're not or you plan on competing in the USAPL/IPF someday then work on getting feet flat- either by changing your stance, working on mobility, or putting plates under your feet.
I just posted this on a friends wall, but wanted to put it in here as well because it's useful! The 2nd picture is about as far down as you can go with a lowbar style squat. Granted there are several lifters that lift low bar but use a highbar style or hybrid style squat so they look like the first picture even though they have the bar lower on their back.0 -
body fat will alter the visuals a bit for sure. How high was that bench compared to your tibia? There's a slight chance here you might be hung up on something that's not really a problem at all! Can you feel your calves touching your thighs when you squat? While that is not in itself a very good indicator of depth, it can mean that your depth is a bit limited.
It was a "normal" bench, probably came to just below my knee if I stood next to it. I'll check again tomorrow. And *should* I be able to feel my calves and thighs touching, or are you saying that could be a reason I can't get lower? I don't know if they are or not. I'll pay more attention tomorrow.
I'll just keep playing and tweaking and trying things with my stance width, but also not worry about it too much. I honestly feel like I'm pushing myself to get as low as I can, so I'll just have to trust things will continue to improve and fall into place as I go.
@Fittreelol - Thank you so very much for all your feedback and your willingness to share your expertise! xo0 -
