High Blood Pressure in Ketogenic Diets

GrannyMayOz

As some of you already know, I took my BP reading on Friday evening and got a horrible fright! It was 151/96 after I'd been sitting peacefully and happily at my computer for about an hour. The next morning after waking and just sitting up it was 148/84. This morning, after a short night's sleep because of a noisy party next door it was 140/76 (but this reading was from still laying down).

We have taken readings on my husband his is normal, so it's not the machine at fault.

I've just found, on ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-dieting.html this...

Myth #10: ...

Put another way, water retention and high blood pressure are common side effects of a high carb diet, because a high carb diet causes the kidneys to retain salt, which causes the body to retain water. Going on a low carb, ketogenic diet is an excellent way to reduce water retention and blood pressure.

After a week or so on a ketogenic diet, your body will become “keto-adapted”, and water loss will stabilize, as long as you are getting enough sodium and other minerals to replace the ones lost in the bathroom. At this point, fat loss accelerates and becomes the primary source of fuel.

The water loss effects of dizziness and weakness at the beginning of a low carb diet can be avoided by making sure you get plenty of salt (at least 5g/day) and extra potassium and magnesium in your diet.

Well I've been on LCHF/Keto for 4 weeks now. I didn't really feel as if I had a 'keto flu' at any stage - just a couple of tiny things, certainly nothing to complain about. But this BP issue is frightening me. I normally have good BP other than a little stress-induced rise in September of last year, which was addressed easily and quickly by my naturopath and I was back to normal by October. I have started again on the herbs he gave me last time.

I've been taking a comprehensive magnesium/potassium/zinc... supplement for about 2 weeks and began a multi-vitamin 3 days ago. Not sure if the multi-vitamin is for me and it duplicates some of the minerals in the other one, so I don't think I'll continue with that. I have not done the maths on their combined relationship to daily allowances.

However!!! How do I get my BP back down to within normal range? This really is concerning me and has reduced my quality of life at the moment. I'm too afraid to exercise - I usually jog and sprint on the treadmill 2 or 3 times a week, which I love. I'm too afraid to do my dumbbell training I know I'm being OTT about this but I have anxiety/panic issues which I can't help, and have a very low tolerance to the adrenalin that I'm so good at creating *sigh*

I don't feel that the quoted passages tell me if or when BP should return to normal, so I'd be very grateful for any *encouraging* input or weblinks anyone can give me.

PS I'm mainstream-medicine-phobic so will go to my naturopath if needed. I can't guarantee even he'll be LCHF approving though under these circumstances. I'm trying so hard to remain positive and I truly do believe in this lifestyle, just struggling with this one issue!

IamUndrCnstruction

I am trying to find anything I can, but all signs point to the fact that keto should lower your BP, not the other way around. Are you having headaches or any other symptoms? Water retention increases my BP, and chance you have had too much sodium? I am sorry you are having anxiety with this.

shadesofidaho

If you do not need potassium and are taking it it can make your heart race. Maybe stop the potassium and monitor how you feel. I even have to take diuretics and I do not have to take potassium daily. I do know when I need it though. I get queasy, shaky, heart beating too fast and just generally feel ick. Even nauseous. Too much potassium is as bad for you as too little. Just a thought.

GrannyMayOz

@IamUndrCnstruction Thank you so much for your reply. I know, that's what shocked me. I know I had normal BP in Oct. I guess it could have risen through Nov to now - I really was eating badly during that time, but then I almost always have So it's *possible* that my BP is coming down from some unknown high that it had reached. I was drinking water and peeing 'for king and country' yesterday. I had increased my sodium intake on 3rd Feb but that increased my weight by over a pound the next day, stayed that same weight as that the next day, then up 2 lbs the day after that so I went back to my usual sodium intake on 6th Feb.

@shadesofidaho Thank you. You're always around when I need an ear. My heart rate is normal. Resting pulse of 55 this morning when I woke up. It was 63 yesterday when I was suffering anxiety. I normally exercise hard so (hopefully) my heart is in good condition. I didn't take my magnesium/potassium/etc supplement last night, and will give it a miss for a couple of days and take another BP reading. I'd just be happy if I knew exactly what steps to take. I think it's the floundering around and the chance of potentially making things worse (through ignorance and doing the wrong thing) that gets to me. Funnily, I did occasionally have a 'fluttery' feeling in my heart when I went to bed before I started LCHF. That has not happened since I have been low carb. It all feels so mystifying

GSD_Mama

I don't know anything about this, but hugs to you and I hope you will figure it all out soon!

dawlfin318

Why not try reducing your sodium intake to no more than 2000mg/day? If you already do this, then try lowering it further. Track it and your blood pressure and see what happens. Some people run higher or lower, naturally and need to adjust their intake for their own personal situation. I run low, just like my father and siblings, so I need to keep the sodium up or I get positional hypotension (orthostatic hypotension) on this diet.

GrannyMayOz

@itcphotog Thank you so much. I hope so too - for my own sake and for anyone who finds this thread in the future and needs answers.

@dawlfin318 Thank you. I did reduce it from the standard LCHF 'add lots extra' advice, but will reduce it further. Hopefully my naturopathics will be assisting soon too. I haven't had any cramps or anything to suggest I'm low on salt so I am in a position to try what you suggest.

sbom1

I know you know this but the original reading could have been a fluke (poor position, too tight a cuff, too loose.....) and the subsequent elevations stress induced. Can you try some meditation/visualization prior to checking again?

GaleHawkins

Glad you got a normal reading of not being over 140. High BP is typically a factor of the viscosity (thickness) of your blood and the level of arterial damage (constriction). Alzheimer's and other damage can occur if you are not getting enough oxygen to the brain which is why our BP increases to keep us healthy.

Remember high blood pressure is NOT a disease that needs to be treated. We need to treat the Cause of HP. High BP is what keeps us alive until we can get the cause of high BP addressed.

Drinking less than a gallon of water a day is one thing that can give us a higher BP reading.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=PXe2xldWxtY

I think this is the link to the above info.

GrannyMayOz

@sbom1 Thank you for your suggestions. I've taken 9 readings since Friday evening (it's Monday morning for me now). 3 have been in the Prehypertension range and 6 in the Hypertension Stage 1 range. We've also taken my husband's readings twice to rule out machine error. His readings are perfect. You could say he doesn't suffer from stress, but he's a carrier My arm is very much towards the outer limit of the cuff size, but we've been unable to source a larger one. I am certainly *within* its range, even though I'm only a little within.

@GaleHawkins Thank you Gale. This morning's reading (laying down after waking) was almost the same as Friday morning. 130/76 then and 130/78 today. Both resting pulse rates were 60. I also did a blood keto reading this morning and it was hard to draw blood where I've never had trouble before. I only got 'half a drop' from 2 pricks and had to do a third. But Saturday and half of Sunday I was 'peeing for King and country', as the saying goes. I was drinking plenty and I have been supplementing Potassium and Magnesium. I *was* adding extra salt, which resulted in weight gain, but I will put that back on the menu having had a small cramp in my leg in the night. And I will watch that YouTube, thank you so much! My drinking glass holds 2 Cups measurement, and I drank around 8 of them on Saturday and 6 or 7 yesterday.

GrannyMayOz

UPDATE AND PREQUEL

Over the weekend I remembered a couple of incidence in recent history that probably have a huge bearing on this situation. When going out in the heat (it's summer down here in Australia) I have been quite breathless and felt a little unwell a couple of times. There was one day in particular where I was out in the midday sun for over an hour photographing birds. I was carrying a backpack as well as my 'birding lens' which weighs 7 lbs. The temperature was 100°F. We didn't walk a great distance, mostly just standing and taking photos. By the time we got back to the car I felt quite unwell, was *very* breathless, felt hot and dry, and got David to take my belongings from me, because I could barely stand up, and practically collapsed into the front seat of the car. Once we had the car air-conditioning on I revived well and we went and bought a mineral water each and I was back to normal.

In hindsight I'm thinking that was probably a BP issue. Perhaps even a BP crisis. This was on 5th Feb, my 14th day of LCHF.

Another... my husband dropped me off on his way to work and I set off walking home. Admittedly it was quite a warm day and I was walking on an asphalt path in a dip where there was no breeze, but I was breathless really quickly, and felt really hot. I was wearing a heart rate monitor (I love statistics if you haven't guessed that long before now) and my rate was far higher than is normal for me. It was to have been a 7km (4½ mile) walk, which I've done both ways (14 kms/9 miles) in the past on slightly cooler days, but I couldn't do it. At the 3km mark I sat down under a tree for a while and my heart rate dropped quickly but the moment I started walking again it rose sharply back to its high mark. By the 4km mark I bailed and had to ring my son to come and collect me.

In hindsight I'm thinking that was probably a BP issue too. This was on 31st Jan, my 9th day of LCHF.

The more I read about LCHF and blood pressure though, the more convinced I am that my BP was actually higher than this before I was aware of the situation. Judging by LCHFs reaction on everyone else I've been able to Google, their BPs have *all* come down on this WOE. So mine *has* to be reducing too. Doesn't it? I am content to have had a 'yellow' reading this morning, so I know that I'm not staying in 'low orange' or getting worse. I won't be dropping down dead or having a stroke, so I am now patient to see how this pans out naturally with the diet and my herbal supplements.

I will continue to monitor and probably report back, maybe daily for a while, then weekly until my BP is 'in the green'. And I still hope that this thread will help someone else in the future by giving them peace of mind.

Very interesting stuff anyway; to me. I hope I haven't bored the pants off everyone else.

GaleHawkins

What range is the correct BP range that should be normal based on your health factors?

GrannyMayOz

You've got me there GaleHawkins. Isn't it just that less than 120/80 is normal and above that is prehypertension? And above 140/90 is hypertension stage 1 (which I've recorded for 6 out of my 9 readings over the past 3 days).

I'm female, 58, weigh 86 kgs (190 lbs) and am 5' 5" tall with a very solid/stocky muscular build (under the fat). Does that make a difference? I'm not on any medications, nor have I ever been, and thought I was in excellent health. I jog/walk (1 song of each, alternating for 8 songs) and then do a couple of short sprints with walking in between) two or three times a week. Is that the information that can help with the answer to your question?

IamUndrCnstruction

Your two episodes sound a lot like ones I have had that were dehydration related (I am on two different diuretics and a host of other meds for the things I have going on and the dosage was too high at the time). But the breathlessness and weakness and so on sound very much the same. Also same circumstances (though I am in Florida, not Oz). Both times my heart rate was sky high, but oddly enough my BP was rock bottom. Dehydration is very dangerous. If nothing else take water with you!!!

GrannyMayOz

Thank you IamUnderCnstructn. I did have a bottle of water with me for the long walk (which I did drink LOL), but not the bird photography session. I did go through a time (since starting LCHF) where I wasn't drinking much water, I just really didn't want it. I can't remember if that was over that period but that is definitely food for thought. I'm not going to go out deliberately and induce those symptoms but I will remain more aware for the future.

I think Florida and my part of Oz are pretty similar weather so you do know what a hot day is like for walking in. The day of the long walk was really humid, the day of the bird photography was a really dry heat. We usually have dry heat in Perth.

I really hope that your symptoms and meds can reduce over time as you continue your LC lifestyle.

Dragonwolf

IamUndrCnstruction wrote: »

Your two episodes sound a lot like ones I have had that were dehydration related (I am on two different diuretics and a host of other meds for the things I have going on and the dosage was too high at the time). But the breathlessness and weakness and so on sound very much the same. Also same circumstances (though I am in Florida, not Oz). Both times my heart rate was sky high, but oddly enough my BP was rock bottom. Dehydration is very dangerous. If nothing else take water with you!!!

I was thinking heat exhaustion, since we're talking Aussie summer. The same symptoms are indicative of heat exhaustion, especially given the A/C making her feel better. Dehydration, plus heat exhaustion, would equal a pretty nasty situation.

IamUndrCnstruction

GrannyMayOz wrote: »

Thank you IamUnderCnstructn. I did have a bottle of water with me for the long walk (which I did drink LOL), but not the bird photography session. I did go through a time (since starting LCHF) where I wasn't drinking much water, I just really didn't want it. I can't remember if that was over that period but that is definitely food for thought. I'm not going to go out deliberately and induce those symptoms but I will remain more aware for the future.

I think Florida and my part of Oz are pretty similar weather so you do know what a hot day is like for walking in. The day of the long walk was really humid, the day of the bird photography was a really dry heat. We usually have dry heat in Perth.

I really hope that your symptoms and meds can reduce over time as you continue your LC lifestyle.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding you. I wasn't. I just get scared about that as both times I ended up in the ICU. They did finally get the dosages straightened out and it has not happened again since.

GrannyMayOz

Dragonwolf wrote: »

I was thinking heat exhaustion, since we're talking Aussie summer. The same symptoms are indicative of heat exhaustion, especially given the A/C making her feel better. Dehydration, plus heat exhaustion, would equal a pretty nasty situation.

Thanks Dragonwolf. My mental faculties were all there so I'm not sure about heat exhaustion. My husband had that once and he barely knew who he was, but perhaps I could have been in the early stages and just got to the car in time. It's good to have other ideas to work with.

I really appreciate all input. No words from anyone have been a waste of time.

GrannyMayOz

IamUndrCnstruction wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding you. I wasn't. I just get scared about that as both times I ended up in the ICU. They did finally get the dosages straightened out and it has not happened again since.

Not at all, I took your comment as concern and advice, not in any bad way. I'm very grateful for everyone's time and thoughts. All knowledge and ideas have been really helpful. Thank goodness you were treated in time and that things are going better for you now!

KnitOrMiss

GrannyMayOz wrote: »

@sbom1 Thank you for your suggestions. I've taken 9 readings since Friday evening (it's Monday morning for me now). 3 have been in the Prehypertension range and 6 in the Hypertension Stage 1 range. We've also taken my husband's readings twice to rule out machine error. His readings are perfect. You could say he doesn't suffer from stress, but he's a carrier My arm is very much towards the outer limit of the cuff size, but we've been unable to source a larger one. I am certainly *within* its range, even though I'm only a little within.

From personal experience, I can tell you that if you are anywhere close to not being able to close the cuff fully, your readings are invalid. If you have an arm circumference of over 15 inches (38.1 centimeters - don't know what metric measure you use), I think it is, any size arm cuff not intended for extended/extra large sizes will read overly high for you or give you completely invalid reasons. I know this from personal experience.

If the doctor's office uses a machine (still haven't figured out exactly why) or a smaller cuff, my readings come out over 170/110 (once, figured out after the idiot didn't know what he was doing). It is recommended that if you are above the size for the cuff to use it on your forearm, but that usually increases the readings 10/5 for me, so find your balance.

If you cannot find a larger cuff for your existing machine or find a decent balance on your forearm (the readings will be different until you find your best position, etc.). you simply need a new machine that has the size cuff you need. Period. Or you might as well not bother taking it. I've had three different doctors explain all the medical info for me, but I can't remember all the technical stuff.

I'm sure you know all the common things, sit still, breath evenly (no holding your breath), don't cross your ankles, arm horizontal, take readings at least 30 minutes apart, etc., that give the accurate reading. If not, I don't check a list. So many factors!

Good luck.

totaloblivia

That's very helpful knitormiss thank you. I had 2 high blood pressure readings before Christmas which spurred me on to start ochre to lose weight, but am scared to get another reading. Head in the sand time.... I need to face up to it but am thinking of buying a home BP monitor instead. Any good brands any of the UK folk are aware of?

totaloblivia

totaloblivia wrote: »

That's very helpful knitormiss thank you. I had 2 high blood pressure readings before Christmas which spurred me on to start ochre to lose weight, but am scared to get another reading. Head in the sand time.... I need to face up to it but am thinking of buying a home BP monitor instead. Any good brands any of the UK folk are aware of?

Ochre???? I meant LCHF!

KnitOrMiss

I don't know any brands in the UK, but here the best suggestions I would have is 1) ask your doctor, 2) ask your pharmacist, and 3) ask friends for personal referrals to types... You can also google for reviews if you find a brand. Mine was $85 US for the machine and extra large cuff, but I could have bought a regular machine and then an extra large cuff for less, but I did it this way so I could get reimbursed. (long story) Good luck!

If you're checking for reviews, look for customer complaints, returns, ease of use, battery and plug in options, and memory, etc.

totaloblivia

Thanks!

GrannyMayOz

totaloblivia wrote: »

That's very helpful knitormiss thank you. I had 2 high blood pressure readings before Christmas which spurred me on to start ochre to lose weight, but am scared to get another reading. Head in the sand time.... I need to face up to it but am thinking of buying a home BP monitor instead. Any good brands any of the UK folk are aware of?

I'm in Australia, so I don't know about brands in the UK. I do, however, have a machine at home and I truly recommend that to get decent readings instead of when you could be nervous at the doctor's.

I don't know if you're a big girl or not, but if/when you buy the machine, do make sure that the cuff fits properly on your arm. I'm really borderline on mine and it's possible that's the reason I've had high readings lately and have been scared half to death by them. It could just be an error because I'm larger now than I was when I bought the machine a few years ago.

GrannyMayOz

Well, this isn't answering anything scientific necessarily, it's not even giving solid evidence in any direction at all, but here's the theory on what has eventuated here for me.

151/96 Friday night
142/94 Saturday morning
140/46 Sunday morning
139/86 Sunday afternoon
130/78 Monday morning
118/69 Tuesday morning
124/74 Wednesday morning

So either...
My BP was sky high before I started LCHF and it has been coming steadily down from whatever it was 5 weeks ago that I was blissfully unaware of.

Or...
My arm has been too big for the cuff and it's been giving ridiculous and untrue readings. I know my arm seems to be borderline on the measuring line on the cuff. So perhaps I've now lost sufficient weight and size in my arm, that it's now giving true readings and my BP has been fine all along!

I guess we will never know. There goes my love of all things scientifically measured but thank goodness it looks as if my BP is within normal ranges now. I will continue to monitor it daily for a while though, and then weekly for a while.

FIT_Goat

That's great to hear. Like you said, keep monitoring it to see what happens as you go. In any case, it went in the right direction and has been fantastic recently.

GaleHawkins

GrannyMayOz wrote: »

Well, this isn't answering anything scientific necessarily, it's not even giving solid evidence in any direction at all, but here's the theory on what has eventuated here for me.

151/96 Friday night
142/94 Saturday morning
140/46 Sunday morning
139/86 Sunday afternoon
130/78 Monday morning
118/69 Tuesday morning
124/74 Wednesday morning

So either...
My BP was sky high before I started LCHF and it has been coming steadily down from whatever it was 5 weeks ago that I was blissfully unaware of.

Or...
My arm has been too big for the cuff and it's been giving ridiculous and untrue readings. I know my arm seems to be borderline on the measuring line on the cuff. So perhaps I've now lost sufficient weight and size in my arm, that it's now giving true readings and my BP has been fine all along!

I guess we will never know. There goes my love of all things scientifically measured but thank goodness it looks as if my BP is within normal ranges now. I will continue to monitor it daily for a while though, and then weekly for a while.

Looks like someone parties TOO MUCH on Friday evenings.

140/90+ reading after reading would be of concern to me being 64. There is no such thing as a "normal" BP that is correct for everyone.

Keeping hydrated as others mentioned is the #1 way to manage BP per some and I agree.

Got to run but it sounds like your BP is not a health concern at this time.

GrannyMayOz

Thank you Goat yes, it's looking good now *phew*.

Thanks GaleHawkins. LOL that would be nice, but I'm always home alone on a Friday evening while my husband is at work. He gets home around midnight or 1am as per 4 or 5 other nights of the week. I've been watching my water intake - felt a bit weak and wobbly this arvo (that means afternoon) but I'd run on the treadmill this morning and it's a very hot and humid day so I've been sweating heaps ever since. I sprinkled a little salt on my hand and ate it, then drank 2 big glasses of water and slowly came back to my usual self. Maybe I'm underestimating just how much extra water I need on LCHF. I thought I was drinking plenty, but we live and learn. I'm 58 by the way, so no spring chicken either

IamUndrCnstruction

Quick thought (most of mine are quite slow!) potassium loss can cause some of the same symptoms. Potassium and sodium work in tandem so perhaps you may consider a potassium supplement or just some good food sources, avocados if they are available are an excellent source.

Glad your BP is behaving itself now!

GrannyMayOz

@IamUndrCnstruction Ha ha, I'm a slow (but thorough) thinker. Thank you for your thoughts, I own a potassium, magnesium and vitamin/mineral supplement, which I bought a week ago, but had stopped taking it for a couple of days. Researching the ingredients I found that it has *1½ times the maximum daily allowance* of Pyridoxine Vitamin B6, even though it tells me on the packet that this very ingredient can be dangerous if taken in high doses or for extended periods of time!!! I started taking it again last night, but only a half dose of what it tells me on the packet. It cost a fortune at almost AU$80 (around US$60) for the container, which is about 6 weeks' supply. The lady in the health food shop sold that one to me because I can't swallow tablets but I shall do my own investigating of labels for next time and probably buy cheaper tablets instead. I usually crunch tablets and eat them with the tiniest possible mouthful of unsweetened cranberry juice. Yes I've met some disgusting ones in my time though ROFL

I'm waiting and longing for avocados to become cheaper.