Doesn't Counting Calories Count?
Replies
-
I think the problem a lot of people cannot hear their bodies. Mindless eating is far to easy to go back to and when you remove the carbs and the sugar coma that you get from over eating them a mindless eater (like myself) needs to be mindful of calories.4
-
Libellue23 wrote: »I think the problem a lot of people cannot hear their bodies. Mindless eating is far to easy to go back to and when you remove the carbs and the sugar coma that you get from over eating them a mindless eater (like myself) needs to be mindful of calories.
Bingo, that's my issue. I'm a binge eater. I'm doing keto to control my binge eating. I will just eat and eat until I'm close to vomiting. If I give myself zero control over calories and portion size I'll be eating 4000 calories a day. I'm not obsessive, I don't measure every single morsel I put on my plate and if I add some extra cheese to my burger I typically won't go back and add that, I just have to get a general idea of how much I'm eating every day so I don't overdo it.3 -
It's just a different kind of control. Some need to measure it in calories.
I personally measure it in time between eating...
It's uneccessary to eat again after only 2 or 4 hours. So if I think I'm hungry 4 hours after my last meal, something isn't right because 1, it just hasn't been that long and we didn't evolve eating that often and 2, I have plenty of stored energy for my body to use. So I drink some water with salt and simply don't eat until it's reasonable to expect the hunger is real.
I can press through any slight mental discomfort it may cause me to not satisfy whatever off signal of hunger I might be receiving because I use perspective... I consider the difficult things, actual, really hard things people I love have to go through... I think of their amazing strength in battling cancer or beating drug addiction or my daughter with T1D and her 6-10 daily injections and numerous finger pricks...
that perspective ended my binge tendencies dead stop.
It wasn't hard for me to ignore the cravings or boredom eating when I compared it to things that they have to do.
Honestly I only had to use that approach for a few weeks because I found it became natural. Like I reprogrammed myself and my hunger.
The only other times I've had issues with false hunger were related to low carb sweets and Diet Coke.
Anyway, all I'm saying is some non calorie counters still utilize methods to control a tendency to binge or overeat. Personally I've done it both ways and I'm more comfortable not focusing on numbers.3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »shanstilts wrote: »At what carb intake does this rule apply? Does this apply only to a ketogenic diet or will be effective at moderate low carb level? Im keeping to 30-max 40 gms carbs per day. Ive only been on for a week and feel pretty good but not like im in ketosis. Thanks!
It's not a rule exactly.
The idea is that you reduce carbs as low as you need to in order to prevent cravings and stop any desire to eat when not hungry.
Then, you don't need to count calories because you're only eating when hungry and you're not getting false hunger signals related to sweet cravings or habit eating. If you only eat when hungry, you won't overeat. But each of us has a certain limit for carbs that we stay below in order to keep those false hunger signals away. This is also often true for eating low carb sweet things as well.
It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Limiting calories that you or some calculator decided on by going hungry for the sole purpose of not going over that number isn't sustainable long term. Certainly not forever. It's a better strategy to learn to eat in such a way that you naturally don't overeat without having to count anything.
How long do you suppose it might take before you've got the carbs sufficiently out of mind and body to tell real hunger (triggered at root by a nutritional need... I think... ?) from an addiction-driven craving?1 -
Yeah. I am trying really hard to not say, "I told you so" to someone on a keto chat that I participate in. For weeks, he had told me that he needed to count calories to lose. He told me that he would gain, if he didn't count. Earlier this week, he decided to go on a bulk (primarily wants to put on muscle) while remaining in keto.
Half of his messages since then have been about how hard it is to eat all these calories, how he isn't hungry but he needs to eat, and how he's struggling to stay above his TDEE in order to put on weight.
It only sounds easy and fun to gain weight on low-carb. It's actually pretty hard unless you're underweight.
I'm finding that too. I'm training now, and even the little I add to the energy expenditure side (about 500kcal daily or so) already causes me to lose serious weight, because I really have to be conscious to take in more calories. If I don't watch my weight, I'll lose too much.
I taught myself to make my eating pattern super predictable and repetitive. This I did by tracking, then I let go of tracking but kept the same pattern. That worked, but now I have to vigilant even to eat a little more.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »shanstilts wrote: »At what carb intake does this rule apply? Does this apply only to a ketogenic diet or will be effective at moderate low carb level? Im keeping to 30-max 40 gms carbs per day. Ive only been on for a week and feel pretty good but not like im in ketosis. Thanks!
It's not a rule exactly.
The idea is that you reduce carbs as low as you need to in order to prevent cravings and stop any desire to eat when not hungry.
Then, you don't need to count calories because you're only eating when hungry and you're not getting false hunger signals related to sweet cravings or habit eating. If you only eat when hungry, you won't overeat. But each of us has a certain limit for carbs that we stay below in order to keep those false hunger signals away. This is also often true for eating low carb sweet things as well.
It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Limiting calories that you or some calculator decided on by going hungry for the sole purpose of not going over that number isn't sustainable long term. Certainly not forever. It's a better strategy to learn to eat in such a way that you naturally don't overeat without having to count anything.
How long do you suppose it might take before you've got the carbs sufficiently out of mind and body to tell real hunger (triggered at root by a nutritional need... I think... ?) from an addiction-driven craving?
took me about 8 months....3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »shanstilts wrote: »At what carb intake does this rule apply? Does this apply only to a ketogenic diet or will be effective at moderate low carb level? Im keeping to 30-max 40 gms carbs per day. Ive only been on for a week and feel pretty good but not like im in ketosis. Thanks!
It's not a rule exactly.
The idea is that you reduce carbs as low as you need to in order to prevent cravings and stop any desire to eat when not hungry.
Then, you don't need to count calories because you're only eating when hungry and you're not getting false hunger signals related to sweet cravings or habit eating. If you only eat when hungry, you won't overeat. But each of us has a certain limit for carbs that we stay below in order to keep those false hunger signals away. This is also often true for eating low carb sweet things as well.
It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Limiting calories that you or some calculator decided on by going hungry for the sole purpose of not going over that number isn't sustainable long term. Certainly not forever. It's a better strategy to learn to eat in such a way that you naturally don't overeat without having to count anything.
How long do you suppose it might take before you've got the carbs sufficiently out of mind and body to tell real hunger (triggered at root by a nutritional need... I think... ?) from an addiction-driven craving?
That's like asking how long it takes to lose 10 pounds. One persons answer could be a week while another's is over a year...
It has just as much to do with knowing old sugar addiction or boredom is tricking you, I think... meaning if I ate a good dinner at 5, and I think I'm hungry at 8... it's only been 3 hours. If I truly ate an adult serving of meat that included a fair amount of fat, why would I be hungry only 3 hours later?
As far as being a nutritional need... maybe. That's why you often see me advising against the use of fat bombs for between meal snacking to "get fat in". If your meal was too low fat, you didn't choose the right food. Try again next time. I wouldn't want to make between meal eating a habit or risk using a sweet fat bomb that might keep my sweet addicted brain on the hook.4 -
Hello! I just watched the Bailor video, which was interesting. I see some other people have the same issues with eating as I do, where eating has nothing to do with hunger and therefore there is no "natural" cut-off that my body tells me I am full as I was eating to satisfy a craving and not to fulfill hunger. I've never read the book, so I only know what I saw in the video. What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess? Because I know I can eat a whole chicken, or a 2 pound steak, or 2 pounds of bacon at 1 sitting. Is that not overeating? I can only barely tolerate vegetables, so no I can't overeat vegetables. I won't be having 10 pounds of salad a day, that's true. If I was in a controlled environment where my food was restricted to only veggies, I would certainly lose weight as I would eat nothing until absolute true hunger took over, as I don't enjoy eating them.
I am trying today to restart a LCD using a more clean eating type of approach as he mentioned in the video. Before I was using protein bars, diet drinks, and low carb desserts. I gained 5 pounds in a month. Now I'm going to try to use only fresh, non-processed items as much as I can. I will not be making my own cheese for example, but I can stay away from protein bars, frozen diet meals, and other similar things. I'll drink tea and coffee, because I can't give that up yet! Breakfast today is eggs with spinach and mushrooms, dinner will be shrimp, steamed asparagus with huge spring mix salad, snacks are natural mixed nuts, orange, and strawberries. My lunch is leftover from before, a lean cuisine meal because I really can't just throw it out, because I can't afford to throw out food and I was raised not to waste. I have 1 more I will eat tomorrow.
I hope this works better for me than the last time. I bought lots of the veggies I do like: asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, the spring mix, an onion, and lots of mushrooms. For fruit I got oranges, grapefruit, blackberries, and strawberries. I had a whole honeydew melon so I have to eat that too. Before I think I was overdoing the things like sour cream, cream cheese, and cheese in general. Trying to cut back a lot on that. I will try to log these into my diary, not for calories, but just a record of what I'm eating. If it works or doesn't, I need to remember how I did it. I could just use a food journal though, and not worry about logging here as much as having a record. We'll see. I really need to do this. I did low-cal for a year and lost 70 pounds, have now put 10 back on. It is true that most people cannot live like that forever...I am sick of measuring every tablespoon I put in my mouth. It's not even that I didn't like the low calorie foods, I did like the food very much, but ALWAYS having to weigh and measure EVERYTHING gets so old! I need a plan I can do for life. I don't care about corn or regular potatoes, but I will miss the heck out of sweet potatoes and carrots. Maybe later as a treat...they are both great with butter! Wish me luck!0 -
purplesevens wrote: ». What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess?
The way I understand it is that when you eat the right foods your body gets better overall nutrient satisfaction and is naturally able to achieve and maintain a healthy bodyfat level without conscious effort on our part. Basically, your body is smarter than you. Eat your natural food source and it naturally maintains itself.
Think about wild animals. How many fat wild animals have you seen?
I'm not talking about the backyard raccoons that raid your garbage cans because they aren't eating their natural food either. Certainly not most domesticated pets either. They aren't eating their natural food or eating only when hungry either. They eat what some company puts in a bag and are fed on a schedule regardless of hunger. Much like the average American...
Animals eating the right food, only when they are hungry, will not get fat. Without ever choosing to go hungry or diet or exercise. They are just doing what's natural.
Eating the unnatural processed foods that have become normal, do nothing but stimulate our hunger and deny us proper nutrition so we are never satisfied. Years and years of that have fried our hunger, metabolic and digestive hormones so many people find they still need to be aware of how much their eating even after switching to the right foods. There could be enough hormonal signaling damage that you can't trust your own hunger signals. A person may just need time to reset and heal the issues and be able to get back to the natural balance. Others may need to stay mindful and decide when to stop eating to prevent overeating because the signal just doesn't come naturally.
I've found that I have to avoid the packaged low carb products, especially the sweet ones. I can't even eat low carb sweets I make at home or use most sweeteners because that taste seems to stir up false hunger signals in me. It seems to be very individual what you can include and still find that natural hunger balance that keeps you from overeating.3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »purplesevens wrote: ». What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess?
The way I understand it is that when you eat the right foods your body gets better overall nutrient satisfaction and is naturally able to achieve and maintain a healthy bodyfat level without conscious effort on our part. Basically, your body is smarter than you. Eat your natural food source and it naturally maintains itself.
Think about wild animals. How many fat wild animals have you seen?
I'm not talking about the backyard raccoons that raid your garbage cans because they aren't eating their natural food either. Certainly not most domesticated pets either. They aren't eating their natural food or eating only when hungry either. They eat what some company puts in a bag and are fed on a schedule regardless of hunger. Much like the average American...
Animals eating the right food, only when they are hungry, will not get fat. Without ever choosing to go hungry or diet or exercise. They are just doing what's natural.
Eating the unnatural processed foods that have become normal, do nothing but stimulate our hunger and deny us proper nutrition so we are never satisfied. Years and years of that have fried our hunger, metabolic and digestive hormones so many people find they still need to be aware of how much their eating even after switching to the right foods. There could be enough hormonal signaling damage that you can't trust your own hunger signals. A person may just need time to reset and heal the issues and be able to get back to the natural balance. Others may need to stay mindful and decide when to stop eating to prevent overeating because the signal just doesn't come naturally.
I've found that I have to avoid the packaged low carb products, especially the sweet ones. I can't even eat low carb sweets I make at home or use most sweeteners because that taste seems to stir up false hunger signals in me. It seems to be very individual what you can include and still find that natural hunger balance that keeps you from overeating.
Wild animals tend to be a LOT more physically active than domesticated animals. They have to be, just by virtue of the fact that they don't know where their next meal currently is. They do "exercise", otherwise they'd starve. Kind of like how humans were before there was a 7-11 on every corner.
3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »purplesevens wrote: ». What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess?
The way I understand it is that when you eat the right foods your body gets better overall nutrient satisfaction and is naturally able to achieve and maintain a healthy bodyfat level without conscious effort on our part. Basically, your body is smarter than you. Eat your natural food source and it naturally maintains itself.
Think about wild animals. How many fat wild animals have you seen?
I'm not talking about the backyard raccoons that raid your garbage cans because they aren't eating their natural food either. Certainly not most domesticated pets either. They aren't eating their natural food or eating only when hungry either. They eat what some company puts in a bag and are fed on a schedule regardless of hunger. Much like the average American...
Animals eating the right food, only when they are hungry, will not get fat. Without ever choosing to go hungry or diet or exercise. They are just doing what's natural.
Eating the unnatural processed foods that have become normal, do nothing but stimulate our hunger and deny us proper nutrition so we are never satisfied. Years and years of that have fried our hunger, metabolic and digestive hormones so many people find they still need to be aware of how much their eating even after switching to the right foods. There could be enough hormonal signaling damage that you can't trust your own hunger signals. A person may just need time to reset and heal the issues and be able to get back to the natural balance. Others may need to stay mindful and decide when to stop eating to prevent overeating because the signal just doesn't come naturally.
I've found that I have to avoid the packaged low carb products, especially the sweet ones. I can't even eat low carb sweets I make at home or use most sweeteners because that taste seems to stir up false hunger signals in me. It seems to be very individual what you can include and still find that natural hunger balance that keeps you from overeating.
Wild animals tend to be a LOT more physically active than domesticated animals. They have to be, just by virtue of the fact that they don't know where their next meal currently is. They do "exercise", otherwise they'd starve. Kind of like how humans were before there was a 7-11 on every corner.
Ok. But that's just their normal activity level. They don't exercise on purpose. As a matter of fact I think they would avoid activity whenever possible.
There's no way wild animals lack of fatness has as much to do with their activity as it does eating their natural food source.
Even major fitness geeks will tell you that you get fit in the gym, you lose weight in the kitchen.
Plus, how do you explain lions? They're lazier than me! Lol
I'm sure their plenty of very lazy animal examples. I'm not buying the activity gets the credit.4 -
OK, that is what I was assuming that it meant. If you eat a whole chicken, you'll be full but it's useful food. Eat a whole cake, it's all garbage your body doesn't need!
I'm on day 2 and even if I don't lose weight, which I hope will happen, it's got to be better to eat like this.
5 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »purplesevens wrote: ». What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess?
The way I understand it is that when you eat the right foods your body gets better overall nutrient satisfaction and is naturally able to achieve and maintain a healthy bodyfat level without conscious effort on our part. Basically, your body is smarter than you. Eat your natural food source and it naturally maintains itself.
Think about wild animals. How many fat wild animals have you seen?
I'm not talking about the backyard raccoons that raid your garbage cans because they aren't eating their natural food either. Certainly not most domesticated pets either. They aren't eating their natural food or eating only when hungry either. They eat what some company puts in a bag and are fed on a schedule regardless of hunger. Much like the average American...
Animals eating the right food, only when they are hungry, will not get fat. Without ever choosing to go hungry or diet or exercise. They are just doing what's natural.
Eating the unnatural processed foods that have become normal, do nothing but stimulate our hunger and deny us proper nutrition so we are never satisfied. Years and years of that have fried our hunger, metabolic and digestive hormones so many people find they still need to be aware of how much their eating even after switching to the right foods. There could be enough hormonal signaling damage that you can't trust your own hunger signals. A person may just need time to reset and heal the issues and be able to get back to the natural balance. Others may need to stay mindful and decide when to stop eating to prevent overeating because the signal just doesn't come naturally.
I've found that I have to avoid the packaged low carb products, especially the sweet ones. I can't even eat low carb sweets I make at home or use most sweeteners because that taste seems to stir up false hunger signals in me. It seems to be very individual what you can include and still find that natural hunger balance that keeps you from overeating.
Wild animals tend to be a LOT more physically active than domesticated animals. They have to be, just by virtue of the fact that they don't know where their next meal currently is. They do "exercise", otherwise they'd starve. Kind of like how humans were before there was a 7-11 on every corner.
Ok. But that's just their normal activity level. They don't exercise on purpose. As a matter of fact I think they would avoid activity whenever possible.
There's no way wild animals lack of fatness has as much to do with their activity as it does eating their natural food source.
Even major fitness geeks will tell you that you get fit in the gym, you lose weight in the kitchen.
Plus, how do you explain lions? They're lazier than me! Lol
I'm sure their plenty of very lazy animal examples. I'm not buying the activity gets the credit.
FYI: Male lions with a pride don't even hunt, lol. They prowl (and sometimes fight). Cause the females are doing all the hunting. HE takes first dip at the kill, though...and he chooses to eat organ meats. Presumably because organ meats have more nutrition
The lean muscle tissue and bones are leftovers for the bottom feeders of the tribe. Maybe that's why we humans love that stuff? ... starting out as scavengers ?
Single male lions have to hunt themselves. So I'm reluctant about the theory "exercise" explains the peak muscle condition a top male lion of a pride is able to maintain for several years in a row. No chunky-munky going on there. He's a lazy *kitten*!☺
Edit: Carnivores like lions naturally eats IF -style. Since prey runs away when chased, the hunts are only successful occasionally. I jokingly say "I'm going hunting" when hitting the grocery store. I wonder what would happen if those pork rinds or rib eye steak started to flea the shelves as I come to grab them!3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »purplesevens wrote: ». What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess?
The way I understand it is that when you eat the right foods your body gets better overall nutrient satisfaction and is naturally able to achieve and maintain a healthy bodyfat level without conscious effort on our part. Basically, your body is smarter than you. Eat your natural food source and it naturally maintains itself.
Think about wild animals. How many fat wild animals have you seen?
I'm not talking about the backyard raccoons that raid your garbage cans because they aren't eating their natural food either. Certainly not most domesticated pets either. They aren't eating their natural food or eating only when hungry either. They eat what some company puts in a bag and are fed on a schedule regardless of hunger. Much like the average American...
Animals eating the right food, only when they are hungry, will not get fat. Without ever choosing to go hungry or diet or exercise. They are just doing what's natural.
Eating the unnatural processed foods that have become normal, do nothing but stimulate our hunger and deny us proper nutrition so we are never satisfied. Years and years of that have fried our hunger, metabolic and digestive hormones so many people find they still need to be aware of how much their eating even after switching to the right foods. There could be enough hormonal signaling damage that you can't trust your own hunger signals. A person may just need time to reset and heal the issues and be able to get back to the natural balance. Others may need to stay mindful and decide when to stop eating to prevent overeating because the signal just doesn't come naturally.
I've found that I have to avoid the packaged low carb products, especially the sweet ones. I can't even eat low carb sweets I make at home or use most sweeteners because that taste seems to stir up false hunger signals in me. It seems to be very individual what you can include and still find that natural hunger balance that keeps you from overeating.
Wild animals tend to be a LOT more physically active than domesticated animals. They have to be, just by virtue of the fact that they don't know where their next meal currently is. They do "exercise", otherwise they'd starve. Kind of like how humans were before there was a 7-11 on every corner.
Ok. But that's just their normal activity level. They don't exercise on purpose. As a matter of fact I think they would avoid activity whenever possible.
There's no way wild animals lack of fatness has as much to do with their activity as it does eating their natural food source.
Even major fitness geeks will tell you that you get fit in the gym, you lose weight in the kitchen.
Plus, how do you explain lions? They're lazier than me! Lol
I'm sure their plenty of very lazy animal examples. I'm not buying the activity gets the credit.
And this is where things can get interesting. I've actually done quite a bit of looking into ancestral diets, but things are really damned hazy and even more fragmented prior to the advent of agriculture and subsequent mass shipping lanes.
The problem one runs into is that there is no universal "natural" diet across the human population. There were civilizations that subsisted primarily on acorns. Some primarily on fish and fatty sea mammals. Some on various types of cheeses, milks, meats and animal blood from various species.
One thing does stand out pretty well though: the civs that thrived with husbandry and hunting of animals generally had little issue with curbstomping the agrarian civs.2 -
purplesevens wrote: »Hello! I just watched the Bailor video, which was interesting. I see some other people have the same issues with eating as I do, where eating has nothing to do with hunger and therefore there is no "natural" cut-off that my body tells me I am full as I was eating to satisfy a craving and not to fulfill hunger. I've never read the book, so I only know what I saw in the video. What exactly does he mean by "it's impossible to overeat the right kinds of foods"? Does he mean that if you ONLY eat the right foods, your body will process it correctly, and not store it as excess? Because I know I can eat a whole chicken, or a 2 pound steak, or 2 pounds of bacon at 1 sitting. Is that not overeating? I can only barely tolerate vegetables, so no I can't overeat vegetables. I won't be having 10 pounds of salad a day, that's true. If I was in a controlled environment where my food was restricted to only veggies, I would certainly lose weight as I would eat nothing until absolute true hunger took over, as I don't enjoy eating them.
I am trying today to restart a LCD using a more clean eating type of approach as he mentioned in the video. Before I was using protein bars, diet drinks, and low carb desserts. I gained 5 pounds in a month. Now I'm going to try to use only fresh, non-processed items as much as I can. I will not be making my own cheese for example, but I can stay away from protein bars, frozen diet meals, and other similar things. I'll drink tea and coffee, because I can't give that up yet! Breakfast today is eggs with spinach and mushrooms, dinner will be shrimp, steamed asparagus with huge spring mix salad, snacks are natural mixed nuts, orange, and strawberries. My lunch is leftover from before, a lean cuisine meal because I really can't just throw it out, because I can't afford to throw out food and I was raised not to waste. I have 1 more I will eat tomorrow.
I hope this works better for me than the last time. I bought lots of the veggies I do like: asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, the spring mix, an onion, and lots of mushrooms. For fruit I got oranges, grapefruit, blackberries, and strawberries. I had a whole honeydew melon so I have to eat that too. Before I think I was overdoing the things like sour cream, cream cheese, and cheese in general. Trying to cut back a lot on that. I will try to log these into my diary, not for calories, but just a record of what I'm eating. If it works or doesn't, I need to remember how I did it. I could just use a food journal though, and not worry about logging here as much as having a record. We'll see. I really need to do this. I did low-cal for a year and lost 70 pounds, have now put 10 back on. It is true that most people cannot live like that forever...I am sick of measuring every tablespoon I put in my mouth. It's not even that I didn't like the low calorie foods, I did like the food very much, but ALWAYS having to weigh and measure EVERYTHING gets so old! I need a plan I can do for life. I don't care about corn or regular potatoes, but I will miss the heck out of sweet potatoes and carrots. Maybe later as a treat...they are both great with butter! Wish me luck!
I have the same struggle. My overeating has nothing to do with hunger and everything to do with my failure to manage my stress and emotions in a much healthier way. In the ideal world I would go to the gym every night to manage my stress, but instead I choose to work 18 hours a day 7 days a week instead... my addiction to working long hours has chronically resulted in bad eating habits.
I eat clean and don't touch much in the way of processed foods, other than some occasional bottled salad dressing. And nope, I don't overeat my lettuce either lol, but I have no problem consuming way too much protein, which is my ongoing battle. I can take it or leave it with the fat, but I could easily polish off a pound of meat... but I guess that's better than the bag of chips and chocolate bar I would have eaten in the past.
For me to lose weight, I have to weigh, measure and record my food consumption and use hard limits as a way to restrict my overeating, otherwise it's way too easy for me to just eat anything and everything that isn't a carbohydrate. But it works for me when I choose to do it and it works well.
2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »One thing does stand out pretty well though: the civs that thrived with husbandry and hunting of animals generally had little issue with curbstomping the agrarian civs.
I think my ancestors must have been the hunter types by my preferred eating style and how I seem to feel best. Not by any underlying curb stomping nature of course...2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Potentially BIG "ifs" there
4 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Potentially BIG "ifs" there
Yes. That's true. That part is important0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »shanstilts wrote: »At what carb intake does this rule apply? Does this apply only to a ketogenic diet or will be effective at moderate low carb level? Im keeping to 30-max 40 gms carbs per day. Ive only been on for a week and feel pretty good but not like im in ketosis. Thanks!
It's not a rule exactly.
The idea is that you reduce carbs as low as you need to in order to prevent cravings and stop any desire to eat when not hungry.
Then, you don't need to count calories because you're only eating when hungry and you're not getting false hunger signals related to sweet cravings or habit eating. If you only eat when hungry, you won't overeat. But each of us has a certain limit for carbs that we stay below in order to keep those false hunger signals away. This is also often true for eating low carb sweet things as well.
It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Limiting calories that you or some calculator decided on by going hungry for the sole purpose of not going over that number isn't sustainable long term. Certainly not forever. It's a better strategy to learn to eat in such a way that you naturally don't overeat without having to count anything.
How long do you suppose it might take before you've got the carbs sufficiently out of mind and body to tell real hunger (triggered at root by a nutritional need... I think... ?) from an addiction-driven craving?
That's like asking how long it takes to lose 10 pounds. One persons answer could be a week while another's is over a year...
It has just as much to do with knowing old sugar addiction or boredom is tricking you, I think... meaning if I ate a good dinner at 5, and I think I'm hungry at 8... it's only been 3 hours. If I truly ate an adult serving of meat that included a fair amount of fat, why would I be hungry only 3 hours later?
As far as being a nutritional need... maybe. That's why you often see me advising against the use of fat bombs for between meal snacking to "get fat in". If your meal was too low fat, you didn't choose the right food. Try again next time. I wouldn't want to make between meal eating a habit or risk using a sweet fat bomb that might keep my sweet addicted brain on the hook.
Makes sense to me. I don't know where to draw the line between cravings, dependence and addiction, but the only approach that makes sense to me is to treat food addiction the same as dependency on tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc. Seems like you would have to ID the problem, identify the triggers, and functionally wall off the *kitten* cues from your decision-making before you really know whether you're hungry or craving.
Here's an interesting research summary:
http://news.yale.edu/2011/04/04/compulsive-eating-and-substance-dependence-share-similar-brain-patternsIn the current study, 48 healthy adolescent women ranging from lean to obese completed the Yale Food Addiction Scale (YFAS), which applies the diagnostic criteria for substance dependence to eating behavior. Next, using brain-imaging procedures such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), the study examined the relation of food addiction symptoms, as assessed by the YFAS, with the women’s brain activity in response to food-related tasks. The first task looked at how the brain responded to cues signaling the impending delivery of a highly palatable food (chocolate milkshake) versus cues signaling the impending delivery of a tasteless control solution. The second test looked at brain activity during the actual intake of the chocolate milkshake versus the tasteless solution.
Both lean and obese participants with higher food addiction scores showed different brain activity patterns than those with lower food addiction scores. In response to the anticipated receipt of food, participants with higher food addiction scores showed greater activity in parts of the brain responsible for cravings and the motivation to eat, but less activity in the regions responsible for inhibiting urges such as the desire to drink a milkshake. Thus, similar to drug addicts, individuals exhibiting signs of food addiction may struggle with increased cravings and stronger motivations to eat in response to food cues and may feel more out-of-control when eating highly palatable foods.
0 -
purplesevens wrote: »Because I know I can eat a whole chicken, or a 2 pound steak, or 2 pounds of bacon at 1 sitting. Is that not overeating?
I routinely eat a whole chicken or 2 pounds of steak or a whole pound of bacon. I typically eat 1-2 meals a day, so that's not over-eating. It would be difficult to eat that amount 3 times a day for multiple days in a row. Of course, my calorie needs are not your calorie needs.
It does matter that you fight your habits of eating out of boredom, stress, or otherwise when not hungry. Although, it might be better to attack the root causes. Find ways to avoid boredom, relieve stress, and otherwise be productive and not eat when you're not hungry.0 -
This does not work for me, even after all this time. The simple reason being, I know when I'm hungry, sure, but I do not know when I've had enough. For example if I don't track and weigh my food, I really can't tell the difference - satisfaction wise - between 400 calories of bacon and eggs or 1000 calories of the same (especially when hubby makes Sunday brunch).
I have tried, in the past, to stop tracking (early last year) - but only eating keto foods (fats and meat and eggs, a little avocado and zucchini and mushrooms) definitely under 20g carbs a day - and I gained 14kg in 4 months. And I was NOT eating like a pig, I was just eating when I felt I was hungry.
And I was only able to get rid of those 14kg by being strict about my calorie intake.
And it took 9 months to get back to my pre-Christmas 2015 weight.
I read all the time "your body needs to heal" and "trust the process" and "only eat when you're hungry" and I'm sure this is true for a lot of people but if my body hasn't healed after 4 years it's not likely going to. If trusting the process and eating when I'm "hungry" results in a 14kg gain then it's not an option.
I think wistfully about being able to stop thinking about food, being able to just eat "like a normal person" and not get fat, and I know that would be the dream - but for me, and many like me it's not reality. No denying you are a wealth of information FG but I think maybe you are also a unique case, or at least not "the norm".3 -
Just because somebody is not actively or obviously counting calories, doesn't mean their body isn't doing the math.
The scale and how your clothes fit (preferably tight jeans, not yoga pants) will let you know if you're eating in a deficit, surplus or maintenance.
I am aware when I'm satisfied and "should" stop eating, it's my willpower that needs working on.1 -
Here's an interesting research summary:
http://news.yale.edu/2011/04/04/compulsive-eating-and-substance-dependence-share-similar-brain-patterns
In the current study, 48 healthy adolescent women ranging from lean to obese completed the Yale Food Addiction Scale (YFAS), which applies the diagnostic criteria for substance dependence to eating behavior. Next, using brain-imaging procedures such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), the study examined the relation of food addiction symptoms, as assessed by the YFAS, with the women’s brain activity in response to food-related tasks. The first task looked at how the brain responded to cues signaling the impending delivery of a highly palatable food (chocolate milkshake) versus cues signaling the impending delivery of a tasteless control solution. The second test looked at brain activity during the actual intake of the chocolate milkshake versus the tasteless solution.
Both lean and obese participants with higher food addiction scores showed different brain activity patterns than those with lower food addiction scores. In response to the anticipated receipt of food, participants with higher food addiction scores showed greater activity in parts of the brain responsible for cravings and the motivation to eat, but less activity in the regions responsible for inhibiting urges such as the desire to drink a milkshake. Thus, similar to drug addicts, individuals exhibiting signs of food addiction may struggle with increased cravings and stronger motivations to eat in response to food cues and may feel more out-of-control when eating highly palatable foods.
And this finding is consistent with what those of us in this group that identify as having a food or sweet addiction describe to the letter. We feel like we can lose control. So we don't kid ourselves thinking moderation is a good tool for us.2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »shanstilts wrote: »At what carb intake does this rule apply? Does this apply only to a ketogenic diet or will be effective at moderate low carb level? Im keeping to 30-max 40 gms carbs per day. Ive only been on for a week and feel pretty good but not like im in ketosis. Thanks!
It's not a rule exactly.
The idea is that you reduce carbs as low as you need to in order to prevent cravings and stop any desire to eat when not hungry.
Then, you don't need to count calories because you're only eating when hungry and you're not getting false hunger signals related to sweet cravings or habit eating. If you only eat when hungry, you won't overeat. But each of us has a certain limit for carbs that we stay below in order to keep those false hunger signals away. This is also often true for eating low carb sweet things as well.
It's not that calories suddenly don't count.... you simply don't have to count them. IF you only eat when hungry, and until not hungry anymore.
Limiting calories that you or some calculator decided on by going hungry for the sole purpose of not going over that number isn't sustainable long term. Certainly not forever. It's a better strategy to learn to eat in such a way that you naturally don't overeat without having to count anything.
How long do you suppose it might take before you've got the carbs sufficiently out of mind and body to tell real hunger (triggered at root by a nutritional need... I think... ?) from an addiction-driven craving?
That's like asking how long it takes to lose 10 pounds. One persons answer could be a week while another's is over a year...
It has just as much to do with knowing old sugar addiction or boredom is tricking you, I think... meaning if I ate a good dinner at 5, and I think I'm hungry at 8... it's only been 3 hours. If I truly ate an adult serving of meat that included a fair amount of fat, why would I be hungry only 3 hours later?
As far as being a nutritional need... maybe. That's why you often see me advising against the use of fat bombs for between meal snacking to "get fat in". If your meal was too low fat, you didn't choose the right food. Try again next time. I wouldn't want to make between meal eating a habit or risk using a sweet fat bomb that might keep my sweet addicted brain on the hook.
Makes sense to me. I don't know where to draw the line between cravings, dependence and addiction, but the only approach that makes sense to me is to treat food addiction the same as dependency on tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc. Seems like you would have to ID the problem, identify the triggers, and functionally wall off the *kitten* cues from your decision-making before you really know whether you're hungry or craving.
Here's an interesting research summary:
http://news.yale.edu/2011/04/04/compulsive-eating-and-substance-dependence-share-similar-brain-patternsIn the current study, 48 healthy adolescent women ranging from lean to obese completed the Yale Food Addiction Scale (YFAS), which applies the diagnostic criteria for substance dependence to eating behavior. Next, using brain-imaging procedures such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), the study examined the relation of food addiction symptoms, as assessed by the YFAS, with the women’s brain activity in response to food-related tasks. The first task looked at how the brain responded to cues signaling the impending delivery of a highly palatable food (chocolate milkshake) versus cues signaling the impending delivery of a tasteless control solution. The second test looked at brain activity during the actual intake of the chocolate milkshake versus the tasteless solution.
Both lean and obese participants with higher food addiction scores showed different brain activity patterns than those with lower food addiction scores. In response to the anticipated receipt of food, participants with higher food addiction scores showed greater activity in parts of the brain responsible for cravings and the motivation to eat, but less activity in the regions responsible for inhibiting urges such as the desire to drink a milkshake. Thus, similar to drug addicts, individuals exhibiting signs of food addiction may struggle with increased cravings and stronger motivations to eat in response to food cues and may feel more out-of-control when eating highly palatable foods.
Oh *kitten*. I'm *kitten*. 0 -
For two months last year i just counted carbs. Didnt worry about calories. My job is requires a lot of walking during the day and during the summer with temps in the low 100s to 120s it can take a toll on your body. For those two months I consumned mostly meats, 73/27 ground beef with cheese. On average i consumed about 3600-4500 calories a day and i was still dropping weight. Mind you i dont work 7 or even 5 days a week. Usually its 3 one week and 4 the next with 12 hour work days. I lost on average 5lbs a week. I am a firm believer that you dont need to count calories. I stick to counting carbs, fat and protein and making sure i dont go over board with those.0
-
FIT_Goat, have you ever thought about writing your own book?0
-
Christine_72 wrote: »Just because somebody is not actively or obviously counting calories, doesn't mean their body isn't doing the math.
The scale and how your clothes fit (preferably tight jeans, not yoga pants) will let you know if you're eating in a deficit, surplus or maintenance.
I am aware when I'm satisfied and "should" stop eating, it's my willpower that needs working on.
That might work for you, but some of us don't get that message from our body that it has done the math. Some of us will sit down with 1 lb. of meat, then go back for another lb. over and over and over again until either we tell ourselves this is just going to make us fat and we stop eating, or we run out of meat. Here's a recent example - last Sat., I cooked a pork butt in the slow cooker. It was 3.37 lbs. when I started. I added diced onions, diced peppers, salt, black pepper, garlic salt, and water. Cooked it for hours. Throughout the day, I ate other foods for normal meals. When the roast was done, I ate it, the onions, peppers, and drank the fatty water/broth mixture it had cooked in. I was still hungry afterwards, but decided I was so far over calories already for the day that it would be best to stop before getting myself even further behind.
That isn't the first time either - I've had much larger quantities of meat and was still hungry. Should I have had no vegetables in it? Would that have made a difference? What about the salt, garlic salt, black pepper, and water? What would you suggest it would take for my body to do that math properly and let me know I'm eating too much?3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Here's an interesting research summary:
http://news.yale.edu/2011/04/04/compulsive-eating-and-substance-dependence-share-similar-brain-patterns
In the current study, 48 healthy adolescent women ranging from lean to obese completed the Yale Food Addiction Scale (YFAS), which applies the diagnostic criteria for substance dependence to eating behavior. Next, using brain-imaging procedures such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), the study examined the relation of food addiction symptoms, as assessed by the YFAS, with the women’s brain activity in response to food-related tasks. The first task looked at how the brain responded to cues signaling the impending delivery of a highly palatable food (chocolate milkshake) versus cues signaling the impending delivery of a tasteless control solution. The second test looked at brain activity during the actual intake of the chocolate milkshake versus the tasteless solution.
Both lean and obese participants with higher food addiction scores showed different brain activity patterns than those with lower food addiction scores. In response to the anticipated receipt of food, participants with higher food addiction scores showed greater activity in parts of the brain responsible for cravings and the motivation to eat, but less activity in the regions responsible for inhibiting urges such as the desire to drink a milkshake. Thus, similar to drug addicts, individuals exhibiting signs of food addiction may struggle with increased cravings and stronger motivations to eat in response to food cues and may feel more out-of-control when eating highly palatable foods.
And this finding is consistent with what those of us in this group that identify as having a food or sweet addiction describe to the letter. We feel like we can lose control. So we don't kid ourselves thinking moderation is a good tool for us.
Can and DO.
My husband just doesn't understand why I have to log obsessively. He never counts anything but maintains at 155, at 5'11" consistently. I have to count every damn thing that goes into my mouth, because, despite knowing what I should and should not do, I will continue to cram food into my mouth even when I am not hungry because I'm addicted to the taste. I also have a very delayed satiety reflex. I try to mitigate that using mindful eating and taking forever to eat. And chewing a lot of gum. It's just better I log like a madwoman. I've tried ad libitum, and nothing good comes from it.
I envy DH's ability to not eat breakfast. I will chew people's faces off if I have to miss a meal still. And he can moderate. I'm an "all or nothing" gal. I'll EAT IT ALL, so it's best if I eat none at all. I will eat a whole can of nuts or 3/4 bag of chips, half the carton of ice cream or cookies before I come out of the fog. I will eat until physically full, and then as soon as I am not about to burst, I'll go eat something else until bursting again. Rinse and repeat, until bedtime. Something's not wired right, but I know my limitations and have a work around. It's annoying! But it works. I have made my peace with it.
5 -
I log religiously.....For me I feel like it helps me to just know where I'm at for the day. If I get to the end of the day and I think I'm hungry I look at my log. If I've used up all my macros it triggers me to take a minute to find out am I really hungry or do I just think I need something else.
If I'm really truly hungry I don't mind going over my limits for the day (except for carbs) to have a little extra, but knowing my macros will go into the red will keep me from eating something just for the heck of it.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Just because somebody is not actively or obviously counting calories, doesn't mean their body isn't doing the math.
The scale and how your clothes fit (preferably tight jeans, not yoga pants) will let you know if you're eating in a deficit, surplus or maintenance.
I am aware when I'm satisfied and "should" stop eating, it's my willpower that needs working on.
That might work for you, but some of us don't get that message from our body that it has done the math. Some of us will sit down with 1 lb. of meat, then go back for another lb. over and over and over again until either we tell ourselves this is just going to make us fat and we stop eating, or we run out of meat. Here's a recent example - last Sat., I cooked a pork butt in the slow cooker. It was 3.37 lbs. when I started. I added diced onions, diced peppers, salt, black pepper, garlic salt, and water. Cooked it for hours. Throughout the day, I ate other foods for normal meals. When the roast was done, I ate it, the onions, peppers, and drank the fatty water/broth mixture it had cooked in. I was still hungry afterwards, but decided I was so far over calories already for the day that it would be best to stop before getting myself even further behind.
That isn't the first time either - I've had much larger quantities of meat and was still hungry. Should I have had no vegetables in it? Would that have made a difference? What about the salt, garlic salt, black pepper, and water? What would you suggest it would take for my body to do that math properly and let me know I'm eating too much?
Admittedly I cant imagine eating that much without feeling ill, let a lone still hungry afterward. I guess this is one reason i weigh all of my food and count my calories. I prelog my day everyday, if i logged 250g of chicken, 150g of veggies etc etc, that's exactly how much goes on my plate. I've learnt what satisfies me, and what doesn't. Obviously I'm not perfect, and i do have IDGAF days, but they are few and far between.
I also go to bed between 7-8 every night and watch tv in my bedroom, If i stay out in the living room chances are high that I'll start snacking, but once I'm in bed i couldn't be bothered getting up again.
There's something more going on with your appetite thermostat @midwesterner which i am not even going to begin to diagnose or understand. Is it honestly true hunger you're feeling or do you just like to eat and have that over stuffed feeling. Do you try to eat within your calories? For me, maintaining my weight and not ever becoming overweight again is always in the forefront of my mind. I refuse to go through this dieting crap ever again, once is enough!
I also only started gaining weight at around age 40, before that i was always at a slim normal weight, so i've only had to battle this for a few years, it hasnt been a life long struggle which i think makes a big difference.
ETA: I also walk a lot and have my fitbit synced to mfp. If i want to eat more that day then I'll exercise more to fit it in. I would struggle to stay in a deficit without exercise. It's one of THE most important things i do to maintain my weight somewhat effortlessly.1
This discussion has been closed.