Will levothyroxine help me lose weight faster?
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lindsey1979 wrote: »As for what I believe, I don't need to believe it -- I've seen the proof and results in my own life, which perfectly aligns with the science. Once I got all my hypo and accessory issues properly diagnosed and sorted out, all the hard work from my diet and exercise finally started to pay off and the weight came off. No need for belief. Just results. This isn't really that hard to understand.
Then will you please extend the same courtesy to the rest of this group? Every one of us speaks from our individual experience, and everyone is different. What worked for you won't work for everybody else, and what didn't work for you might work for others.
It seems to me that you openly attack anyone who says that calorie restriction worked for them—especially if someone like me says they lost the weight before their thyroid levels ever entered the "normal" range. It's as if you think my story negates yours or something. It doesn't.
There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to losing weight—whatever your thyroid status. Ideally, we should all be able to tell our stories without being attacked. Then we can learn from each other and use trial & error to find what works for us.
Thyroid disease is exhausting—not to mention battling the health care system and trying to advocate for oneself. The last thing any of us needs is a whole lot of infighting amongst the only people who can really understand what we're going through. Can we please just agree to disagree?0 -
editorgrrl wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »As for what I believe, I don't need to believe it -- I've seen the proof and results in my own life, which perfectly aligns with the science. Once I got all my hypo and accessory issues properly diagnosed and sorted out, all the hard work from my diet and exercise finally started to pay off and the weight came off. No need for belief. Just results. This isn't really that hard to understand.
Then will you please extend the same courtesy to the rest of this group? Every one of us speaks from our individual experience, and everyone is different. What worked for you won't work for everybody else, and what didn't work for you might work for others.
It seems to me that you openly attack anyone who says that calorie restriction worked for them—especially if someone like me says they lost the weight before their thyroid levels ever entered the "normal" range. It's as if you think my story negates yours or something. It doesn't.
There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to losing weight—whatever your thyroid status. Ideally, we should all be able to tell our stories without being attacked. Then we can learn from each other and use trial & error to find what works for us.
Thyroid disease is exhausting—not to mention battling the health care system and trying to advocate for oneself. The last thing any of us needs is a whole lot of infighting amongst the only people who can really understand what we're going through. Can we please just agree to disagree?
I've never claimed otherwise, Editorgrrl. I, of all people, realize what works for one won't work for all. I just don't like the folks that make sweeping statements -- such as you did initially -- about hypothyroidism that simply aren't true. Or extrapolating their personal experience as the rule for everyone else (which is what you did initially as well as CSDriver). I've NEVER done that.
I've never debated calorie restriction -- go look at all my posts. You'll never see that EVER. Of course, calorie restriction is part of the equation. If you're overeating, you'll gain weight. However, what that means for each person can be VERY, VERY different. CICO is a great guideline as a starting point, but there are a lot of areas for that equation to go sideways, and thyroid issues are just one of them. Learning to count correctly is important, but it's not everyone's problem. Not everyone that struggles to lose weight and has a thyroid condition has failed to learn to count calories accurately or is just using their thyroid condition as an excuse to lose/maintain weight. In fact, most of us non-newbies are really, really good at it so it's insulting to insinuate that's the only solution.
You were mistaken about your calorie consumption, learned differently and corrected your strategy. That's great. But that doesn't mean that everyone else makes that same mistake. It's a pretty common mistake and that's why counting to figure out a baseline is a really good starting point for most and why it's suggested so often on MFP. But, it's not the only source of error or difficulty. It's not a magic bullet.
So, when you (as you did initially) or others like CSDriver come on and make sweeping statements about how it's all about CICO or calorie restriction, that simply isn't true. There are wrong and right answers, and there are plenty of times when we simply don't know the answer yet or that wrongness or rightness of an answer varies depending on the individual and their circumstances. Thyroid can be a very complicated puzzle, but going through those various questions and answers can help people learn what are the wrong and right answers for them.
I'm sorry that people disagreeing with you or correcting you hurts you or you see it as an attack. For me, when someone does that to me, I'm grateful because it's how I learn -- how new information is introduced and discussed. CSDriver has made several inaccurate statements and has a demeaning attitude ("it's only as much of an excuse as you make it"). When I counter his points, he calls me emotional. Telling people that are trying very, very hard that they are just using it as an excuse is very demeaning and not helpful at all.
I extend the exact same courtesy to this group -- allowing for individual experience and sharing what I've learned along the way in my journey, just as have many others. But, I won't stand by and allow people to state untruths or half-truths or demean others because of their lack of understanding or otherwise.
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It is a known medical fact that people with hypothyroidism and treated effectively ( i.e. all levels correct, T3, T4, TSH AND THEY ACTUALLY FEED GOOD AND HAVE ENERGY). This can be upwards of 300 calories below a person without hypothyroidism for the same height, weight, age activity level. The medication does not put the metabolic rate back to where it was prior to the onset of hypothyroidism. I shudder to think what the metabolic is for those who cannot be treated effectively and there are many who aren't being treated effectively. More medical research needs to be done for those who do not feel well.
Seems as if your first sentence is cut off - are you suggesting that metabolic rate will be insufficient post diagnosis and treatment? If BMR is not reestablished then further diagnosis would be required to get the individual back to pre-hypothyroid condition, but there is no reason why a person with thyroid disorder could not maintain pre diagnosis level of activity.
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It is a known medical fact that people with hypothyroidism and treated effectively ( i.e. all levels correct, T3, T4, TSH AND THEY ACTUALLY FEED GOOD AND HAVE ENERGY). This can be upwards of 300 calories below a person without hypothyroidism for the same height, weight, age activity level. The medication does not put the metabolic rate back to where it was prior to the onset of hypothyroidism. I shudder to think what the metabolic is for those who cannot be treated effectively and there are many who aren't being treated effectively. More medical research needs to be done for those who do not feel well.
Seems as if your first sentence is cut off - are you suggesting that metabolic rate will be insufficient post diagnosis and treatment? If BMR is not reestablished then further diagnosis would be required to get the individual back to pre-hypothyroid condition, but there is no reason why a person with thyroid disorder could not maintain pre diagnosis level of activity.
This is all in its infancy but they've also semi-recently found that BMRs to be lower than expected for the same weight/composition if you've lost 10% or more of your body weight in the past year. It was a study that came out of Cornell a couple of years back. After a year, the BMR was still lower than expected (something to the tune of 20% lower than expected). And they don't know whether it ever recovers -- as there wasn't any study done longer than a year. It's possible that it does slowly recover or possible that it never does, so someone that's lost a significant amount of weight will always have a lower BMR than the calculators would indicate based on body weight and composition.
It doesn't seem like a stretch that if mere weight loss can do this, that thyroid problems (or other problems) could have a similar effect. And be part of the reason why something like 95% of people regain lost weight within 10 years.
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Frigs's first statement is not cut off mid sentence. It stands large in full. Read it all.
The crux of the issue is.
POST diagnosis DO patients receive the right medication to restore metabolic function to what should normal for them?
I for one believe, when the head of our local Endocrinology Department, (who is typical of many) can say, of all cases, Hypothyroidism does not cause low basal body temperature, which is indicative of low metabolic function and is passing on this travesty to young trainee specialists, someone has so much to learn and it is not myself. We need to fight the ignorance in the medical profession. He did not think I had any need to know about my high levels of antibodies. It was left to haematology following a costly diversion in diagnostics who recognised my eagerness to improve my health.
Comprehensive vitamin, mineral and total endocrine system and toxic load, testing should bring conclusive information/knowledge, (as at 1/6/2015 will we ever know it all), knowledge about what is going on in the individual person, knowledge which would prevent the travesty of under and wrongly medicated people. People who are condemned to live restricted lives especially if they are women. In the past we were expected to be deferential to doctors, to do what we are told, to be passive.
Proper diagnosis is vital for all. Now t3 is more widely being seen as a brain hormone not just a body hormone may be many with mental health issues who get no further than the medical practice being sent away with some antidepressant which damage the thyroid even more, or sent off to some talking therapy, which does its place for some, may start to gain access to real help.
Conspicuous weight gain and more reluctant if not stagnant loss is for many symptomatic of low metabolism. For many success at weight loss becomes a flag in which to cover all their other chronic symptoms (which are not shrouded by excuses). If by eating less and less, itself even more damaging to thyroid function restricting vital nutrients at a time when they are most needed. Continually running themselves into the ground so they can loose this abominable symbolic weight, they will know their medication is working! They will have the stamina appropriate to the stage in life the are chronologically in. They will be OK.
Unfortunately as STTM set out to stop over 20 years ago. Many, principally women, are failed by, under or inappropriate medication, medication unsuitable for them, medics fear of over medicating, (who with half a brain would let themselves be over medicated they'd stop taking the stuff wouldn't they, you?). Then there is the problem of medication filled with a binder which is on Thyroid UK's list of problem foods, maize, problematic for some but not all but this is the way with thyroid problems. As there are 300 known health problems which present in differing combinations, THERE CAN NOT BE A ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION. Please do what is right for you knowing your options.0 -
Raising my BMR is my new focus and thanks for all of the information. It does appear to be in it's infancy in understanding and definitely needs more long term studies. All I really know is that mine appears to be damaged and yet I have all of the "recommended" blood levels and feel energetic. I get adequate rest, adequate water, not really stressed and do lots of cardio, over 10 miles a week in addition I play tennis 1 time per week and do barre 1 time per week and 2 cardio kick box workouts. This can only get worse as I age and loose a little more weight so I need to take action.
First step. Focus on how to increase it and let the experts focus on what caused it although action plan may depend on what caused it, I can't control that right now.
Find a plan to increase it. So if anyone has any plans to share and are similarly focused I would appreciate it. And no I will not change genders just to increase my BMR. Just a little jest.
So...here is what I have been told and plan to do in an effort to increase my BMR:
Add to my existing workout(I don't think I can give up my cardio but maybe due to time cut back a little)
Strength Training - a must
Morning strength training if at all possible x 3 - I don't think I can maintain heavy lifting long term but will do free weights more routinely.
Walk at lunch even if only for 10 minutes. Maybe my sedentary day work is taking me down.
Get my VCO2 tested every three months even if I have to pay out of pocket.
I have a baseline and we will see what happens.
Good Health to everyone on this thyroid journey. My only bright spot is my mom who at 84 eats everything and still maintains health and turns heads. She was diagnosed at 46
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Raising my BMR is my new focus and thanks for all of the information. It does appear to be in it's infancy in understanding and definitely needs more long term studies. All I really know is that mine appears to be damaged and yet I have all of the "recommended" blood levels and feel energetic. I get adequate rest, adequate water, not really stressed and do lots of cardio, over 10 miles a week in addition I play tennis 1 time per week and do barre 1 time per week and 2 cardio kick box workouts. This can only get worse as I age and loose a little more weight so I need to take action.
First step. Focus on how to increase it and let the experts focus on what caused it although action plan may depend on what caused it, I can't control that right now.
Find a plan to increase it. So if anyone has any plans to share and are similarly focused I would appreciate it. And no I will not change genders just to increase my BMR. Just a little jest.
So...here is what I have been told and plan to do in an effort to increase my BMR:
Add to my existing workout(I don't think I can give up my cardio but maybe due to time cut back a little)
Strength Training - a must
Morning strength training if at all possible x 3 - I don't think I can maintain heavy lifting long term but will do free weights more routinely.
Walk at lunch even if only for 10 minutes. Maybe my sedentary day work is taking me down.
Get my VCO2 tested every three months even if I have to pay out of pocket.
I have a baseline and we will see what happens.
Good Health to everyone on this thyroid journey. My only bright spot is my mom who at 84 eats everything and still maintains health and turns heads. She was diagnosed at 46
Outstanding!!! All the research supports cardio for anyone who is hypo. Jillian Michaels is also hypo and swears by resistance training. Stronlifts 5x5 is a great place to review strength training and really stresses the need for proper form over heavy weights.
As for VCO2 if you have a smartphone the Polar H7 and associated app have an algorythm for this - I test mine about every 3 months.
Best regards to you and your awesome Mom.
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lindsey1979 wrote: »It is a known medical fact that people with hypothyroidism and treated effectively ( i.e. all levels correct, T3, T4, TSH AND THEY ACTUALLY FEED GOOD AND HAVE ENERGY). This can be upwards of 300 calories below a person without hypothyroidism for the same height, weight, age activity level. The medication does not put the metabolic rate back to where it was prior to the onset of hypothyroidism. I shudder to think what the metabolic is for those who cannot be treated effectively and there are many who aren't being treated effectively. More medical research needs to be done for those who do not feel well.
Seems as if your first sentence is cut off - are you suggesting that metabolic rate will be insufficient post diagnosis and treatment? If BMR is not reestablished then further diagnosis would be required to get the individual back to pre-hypothyroid condition, but there is no reason why a person with thyroid disorder could not maintain pre diagnosis level of activity.
This is all in its infancy but they've also semi-recently found that BMRs to be lower than expected for the same weight/composition if you've lost 10% or more of your body weight in the past year. It was a study that came out of Cornell a couple of years back. After a year, the BMR was still lower than expected (something to the tune of 20% lower than expected). And they don't know whether it ever recovers -- as there wasn't any study done longer than a year. It's possible that it does slowly recover or possible that it never does, so someone that's lost a significant amount of weight will always have a lower BMR than the calculators would indicate based on body weight and composition.
It doesn't seem like a stretch that if mere weight loss can do this, that thyroid problems (or other problems) could have a similar effect. And be part of the reason why something like 95% of people regain lost weight within 10 years.
I would greatly appreciate a link if you can. Far too many variables on general population studies like this. Did they monitor diet and physical activity post diagnosis and treatment? Was there a control group of people without thyroid condition and what were their weight results?
Many of the issues we're discussing are on the mental side of this. Do you choose to spin negative or positive? You can resign yourself to having no control or you can be positive and focus on the variable you have control over.
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I can't find a convenient link to the actual study (I wish I'd save it when I read it), but the research is done by Rosenbaum and Leibel out of Columbia. It was also featured on the HBO documentary series -- Weight of the Nation. Here is an article out of Columbia discussing related research, in addition to other research on leptin and obesity: http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/publications/in-vivo/Vol1_Iss9_may15_02/bulge.htmllindsey1979 wrote: »It is a known medical fact that people with hypothyroidism and treated effectively ( i.e. all levels correct, T3, T4, TSH AND THEY ACTUALLY FEED GOOD AND HAVE ENERGY). This can be upwards of 300 calories below a person without hypothyroidism for the same height, weight, age activity level. The medication does not put the metabolic rate back to where it was prior to the onset of hypothyroidism. I shudder to think what the metabolic is for those who cannot be treated effectively and there are many who aren't being treated effectively. More medical research needs to be done for those who do not feel well.
Seems as if your first sentence is cut off - are you suggesting that metabolic rate will be insufficient post diagnosis and treatment? If BMR is not reestablished then further diagnosis would be required to get the individual back to pre-hypothyroid condition, but there is no reason why a person with thyroid disorder could not maintain pre diagnosis level of activity.
This is all in its infancy but they've also semi-recently found that BMRs to be lower than expected for the same weight/composition if you've lost 10% or more of your body weight in the past year. It was a study that came out of Cornell a couple of years back. After a year, the BMR was still lower than expected (something to the tune of 20% lower than expected). And they don't know whether it ever recovers -- as there wasn't any study done longer than a year. It's possible that it does slowly recover or possible that it never does, so someone that's lost a significant amount of weight will always have a lower BMR than the calculators would indicate based on body weight and composition.
It doesn't seem like a stretch that if mere weight loss can do this, that thyroid problems (or other problems) could have a similar effect. And be part of the reason why something like 95% of people regain lost weight within 10 years.
I would greatly appreciate a link if you can. Far too many variables on general population studies like this. Did they monitor diet and physical activity post diagnosis and treatment? Was there a control group of people without thyroid condition and what were their weight results?
Many of the issues we're discussing are on the mental side of this. Do you choose to spin negative or positive? You can resign yourself to having no control or you can be positive and focus on the variable you have control over.
If I find the actual study, I'll post a link -- I just can't remember what the name of the journal it was published in.
Also, here's a somewhat related but different study that was showing the reduction in RMR with different diets. One is a high carb diet (60C/20F/20P), one is a low glycemic diet (40C/40F/20P) and low carb (10C/60F/30P). It showed that the RMR was lowest with the high carb, intermediate with the low glycemic and highest with the low carb. I wish they would have controlled for protein (had 20% protein in all instead of just the first two) since you're going to expect a slight increase in RMR due to higher protein content, but it does show some interesting evidence that a calorie is not just a calorie, at least not all the time -- and how you lose the weight as far as macros go may ultimately greatly impact your longterm success. I'm fairly certain that I've seen other research that shows that this levels out over 24 months, but it still may be quite important for the intermim 6-24 months (which I believe was the time line for that other study).
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154
[Edit] -- Here is the 2008 research, but it wasn't the one I was initially looking for: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/4/906.full0 -
I do 40C/28F/32P ...and I track fiber 30g daily and water 11 per day. Usually carbs are under 150 per day. Yeah nutritionist said go lower on carbs and higher on fats..but I do need to live with the diet also. Any lower on the carbs and I just don't have the energy for the running workouts. I may have 1 or 2 days slightly off but am pretty steady and satisfied hunger wise AS LONG AS I CHOOSE the correct foods.
I am successful in loosing weight .5 per week..but would really like to loose weight on 1650 rather than 1450 like others just to give me more flexibility to add in the nuts and coconut oils which are so high in calories. I may have to back off protein and up fats..but time will tell. I'll give the strength training 3 months.
I am hoping the strength training will do it.
Thanks for the app on the testing!0 -
I too do better when I restrict carbs and stay away from grains altogether, but I don't go as extreme as to be considered a LCHF or keto diet (and given that those may negatively impact those us with thyroid issues, all the better). I tend to stay under 100-120 generally.
There was another very interesting study in the last few years that showed different macro diets (but same equivalent calories) across groups of women with different insulin sensitivities. I'm sure I shared it here before, but just not on this thread.
I believe it broke down at 60C/20F/20P and 40C/40F/20P -- they controlled for protein in this one. And the women with better insulin sensitivity lost nearly twice as much on the high carb but the exact opposite was true for the insulin resistant women (not as severe as diabetic, but pre-diabetic insulin numbers) -- that the insulin resistant women lost nearly twice as much on the lower carb diet. But even the lower carb diet was still pretty generous at 40% carbs.
It's just so interesting to see how much individual variation there is in such things. This is why I think CICO is a great starting point, but far from the last word, especially for optimal results. That's the problem with attempting to apply a simply physics equation to a complex biochemical organism.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full
Or, and this is getting far afield, but a study that was put together to determine the causes (or high likelihood) for diabetes across different population. They compared various populations' data and controlled for poverty, urbanization, aging, and most important, obesity and physical activity. The only thing that accounted for the raise in diabetes (or decline, as the case may be) -- sugar consumption.
I know some get really freaked out by any "demonization" of certain food groups, but it seems like we should be able to discuss disturbing facts or trends without it amounting to demonization. I think the comparison the doctor makes of added sugar to alcohol is reasonable -- a little is fine, but too much can have deleterious effects. I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call it a toxin, but I can see the analogy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lustig-md/sugar-toxic_b_2759564.html0 -
CSARdiver....again, you are wrong. Weight gain/loss is a balance of calorie in/calorie out, managed by metabolism, and impacted by several variables FOR THE PERSON WITHOUT A THYROID ISSUE. Now, if you insist this is semantics, then explain how a person can eat a 1200 calorie diet and exercise EXCESSIVELY (2 hour bike ride at 14 mph + 3 times a week and weight training at gym for 1 1/2 to 2 hours twice a week)....and NOT lose weight? Voila, levothyroxine......and guess what? A small weight loss. Semantics? I don't think so.0
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I worry that anyone thinks that getting TSH "into range" means you will be well. For a few that may work, but not for many - as evidence by the numbers still not well on standard treatment. For me I have to be very close to suppressed before I can even function let alone live.
We are all different and far too many people are accepting a substandard quality of life because they do not feel able to challenge the utter twaddle spouted by some docs.
I got well be sorting my own meds and treating by symptoms (including temp. pulse and blood pressure) rather than by inaccurate and flawed blood tests. Now even my Doc has to agree my way has worked much better than when I was "treated according to the official guidelines."
Don't accept less than feeling WELL - THEN you will lose weight - you will still have to work hard, but only as hard as any normal, non-hypo person.
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