The mind game
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shai74
Posts: 512 Member
The mind game is far harder to play than the food game. I've been overweight since I was about 18, I guess. I have been 89kg at my lowest (not too bad, curvy but looked hot in a dress - guys like a girl with some curves) and 123kg at my highest (disgusting) I lost 30kg last year. I've gained back 13kg this year. I am struggling. My self loathing goes up every time the scale goes up. The way I feel about myself as a person is directly related to how much I weigh. I can not separate the two.
Last year, I stuck to Keto for 8 months. I felt that I was finally in control, I felt good. I didn't cheat. I was almost smug in my ability to eat well and lose weight. I was strong, I was never going to go back to being over 100kg, I was never going to let things get out of hand again. Today I am 107.1kg. I can't tell you how bad I feel about that, or how defeated. If I was so sure I'd finally licked this weight thing, and I was wrong, how can I ever trust that feeling again?
My partner and I have had some tough times. He is having issues with his job, and his horrible teenagers, and we have not been as close as we were (that guy thing where they put up a wall to cope). We don't fight, we still spend alot of time together, but his lack of "interest" directly affects my self esteem. I feel like if he doesn't desire me I must be undesirable. So why does it matter what I weigh? His lack of interest came at a time where I was kinda OK with my weight, so if I'm not good enough then, I may as well eat what I want. Right?
Intellectually I know that it's not me. I am the supportive, understanding partner. I do not get upset, I do not complain, I know he's dealing with things in his life the best way he can. I tell myself it's NOT personal. He tells me it's not me when we talk about it. I have to trust that. But emotionally, I am so damned fragile on the inside. I eat, I gain weight, I'm ashamed. I hate myself for it. To turn that feeling around, to eat better and lose weight and become positive is a very very hard thing to do.
I have wasted 20 years being half a person. Like when I'm overweight I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, I'm not me. If I was thin I'd be happy. If I was thin people would like me better. If I was thin I could buy nicer clothes. If I was thin I wouldn't have any of the stress I have, I'd have a nicer car, a nicer house, my family would be less messed up. If I was thin I'd be pretty. If I was thin I'd have a better job and more money. Being "thin" is something I've always told myself I'd be one day, and then I would be able to live my life, and all of these things would be OK. I'm 40. I'm scared I'm never going to be that person I can be proud of, I'm never going to be anything other than a "fat chick". I'm never going to be happy, or at peace.
I continue to try. I continue to hope. But what if I'm NEVER thin. What if one day I'm just OLD, and I never got to be me. I hear life is just as hard for thin people. Except they have smaller clothes.
Last year, I stuck to Keto for 8 months. I felt that I was finally in control, I felt good. I didn't cheat. I was almost smug in my ability to eat well and lose weight. I was strong, I was never going to go back to being over 100kg, I was never going to let things get out of hand again. Today I am 107.1kg. I can't tell you how bad I feel about that, or how defeated. If I was so sure I'd finally licked this weight thing, and I was wrong, how can I ever trust that feeling again?
My partner and I have had some tough times. He is having issues with his job, and his horrible teenagers, and we have not been as close as we were (that guy thing where they put up a wall to cope). We don't fight, we still spend alot of time together, but his lack of "interest" directly affects my self esteem. I feel like if he doesn't desire me I must be undesirable. So why does it matter what I weigh? His lack of interest came at a time where I was kinda OK with my weight, so if I'm not good enough then, I may as well eat what I want. Right?
Intellectually I know that it's not me. I am the supportive, understanding partner. I do not get upset, I do not complain, I know he's dealing with things in his life the best way he can. I tell myself it's NOT personal. He tells me it's not me when we talk about it. I have to trust that. But emotionally, I am so damned fragile on the inside. I eat, I gain weight, I'm ashamed. I hate myself for it. To turn that feeling around, to eat better and lose weight and become positive is a very very hard thing to do.
I have wasted 20 years being half a person. Like when I'm overweight I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, I'm not me. If I was thin I'd be happy. If I was thin people would like me better. If I was thin I could buy nicer clothes. If I was thin I wouldn't have any of the stress I have, I'd have a nicer car, a nicer house, my family would be less messed up. If I was thin I'd be pretty. If I was thin I'd have a better job and more money. Being "thin" is something I've always told myself I'd be one day, and then I would be able to live my life, and all of these things would be OK. I'm 40. I'm scared I'm never going to be that person I can be proud of, I'm never going to be anything other than a "fat chick". I'm never going to be happy, or at peace.
I continue to try. I continue to hope. But what if I'm NEVER thin. What if one day I'm just OLD, and I never got to be me. I hear life is just as hard for thin people. Except they have smaller clothes.
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*hugs*
Being thin won't fix everything.
Who says you can't be you even if you're carrying a bit of extra weight around?0 -
Thanks Twibby. No one says. It's a belief inside of me, as strong as I imagine a belief in God is in some people.
If I told someone who goes to church that God doesn't exist, it's just a book, a made up story, something people tell themselves to justify all sorts of things, or to feel they belong to something greater than themselves, or to absolve themselves of some responsibility by placing things in the hands of some imaginary higher being, would they say "oh, you're right". No. It's so much a part of who they are that there is no room inside them to believe otherwise.
That's how I feel. I can tell myself my weight has nothing to do with anything. I can tell myself I'm fine as I am, I'm still a worthwhile person, people love me the same, my life will not be perfect if I was thin. But I can not change the fact that I BELIEVE otherwise. It's how I've felt my whole life. It's what society tells me I should feel. Killing is wrong. Speaking your mind is rude. Being thin is "normal" and desirable, being fat is not.0 -
What are you doing differently now to prevent what made you stop keto after 8 months and regain the weight?
How tall are you and what's your goal weight?0 -
In my Jimmy Moore podcast obsessions, today I listened to an interview with this writer, who focuses on body image; might be worth a read? https://harriet-brown.squarespace.com/booksforreal/
Hang in there.
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@shai74 Girl. I had to literally spend hours one day convincing my size 10 friend that dressing up in sexy lingerie for her hubby was a good thing. She could only think about her perceived flaws. Obsessively so. It just broke my heart.
TMI Warning for some. I am 5'4" tall (163 cm, give or take). I weighed nearly 350 at my heaviest (roughly 159 kg). At the time of the discussion above, I was around 275 pounds (125 kg). I wore a US size 24W/3X. I told her that I wore skimpy underthings on a regular basis, because it made me feel good about myself, and my guy enjoyed it too. She couldn't fathom it. Wearing things like that FOR MY OWN ENJOYMENT even when I was single, enjoying a quick glance in the mirror, but not really starting and looking for flaws, etc. Much like how you "FEEL" is a better indicator of health, so too how I "FELT" dressing up that way was more important than how I perceived myself to look. I felt sexy and awesome and all that. Even when my guy wasn't feeling it, I took the ego hit, sure. That's natural. But I wasn't any different. But I was me and proud of it. She couldn't fathom enjoying the lingerie that her hubby had requested she wear (anything other than utilitarian and granny panties was his request, I believe), nor the fact that he found her sexually attractive and wanted to enjoy gazing at her body. She never did wrap her head around it, and it literally broke my heart.
I may not look the way I want to look in the mirror, but several years back, I woke up one day, said screw this, and realized I was not waiting another single second to live my life the way I wanted to live it. I started doing things for me. To this day, putting myself first is hard, but I do it...and it does get easier. I was miserable years back, and it took some real crap dumped on me by my ex-husband to trigger my inner b!tch and fighting spirit, but FFS, I'm so tired of society telling me anything. I wrote a blog about it that I posted on here, if you're curious.
I'm a woman, damn it, not some stick figure child. I have curves and I don't give a crap who likes it. I LIKE IT. Society can go take a leap. I know there are a number of men who enjoy that Victoria Secret look. Screw that. Give me the Lane Bryant models hands down. Most men, when honest, find the curves of a woman sexy. I'm on the path I am to gain health. If I lose weight along the way, more power to me. If not, I am completely okay with my body. I may not like it, but I love me.
I'm not saying any of this to put you down or anything. I want you to see that it is possible to still be morbidly obese and to like myself. I would strongly suggest some reading, some journaling, and some counseling, because there is no magic pill or wand. You have to learn to love yourself now and to take charge of the rest of your life. A confident woman who is 100 pounds overweight is far sexier to a normal person than the insecure woman who is on the skinny side of her ideal weight, per the ridiculously outdated charts...
So the work you need to do first and foremost is in your head and your heart. I spent six months last year in maintenance just getting my head on straight, and it helped so much... And keeping your head straight is an ongoing process too. (hugs)0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@shai74 Girl. I had to literally spend hours one day convincing my size 10 friend that dressing up in sexy lingerie for her hubby was a good thing. She could only think about her perceived flaws. Obsessively so. It just broke my heart.
TMI Warning for some. I am 5'4" tall (163 cm, give or take). I weighed nearly 350 at my heaviest (roughly 159 kg). At the time of the discussion above, I was around 275 pounds (125 kg). I wore a US size 24W/3X. I told her that I wore skimpy underthings on a regular basis, because it made me feel good about myself, and my guy enjoyed it too. She couldn't fathom it. Wearing things like that FOR MY OWN ENJOYMENT even when I was single, enjoying a quick glance in the mirror, but not really starting and looking for flaws, etc. Much like how you "FEEL" is a better indicator of health, so too how I "FELT" dressing up that way was more important than how I perceived myself to look. I felt sexy and awesome and all that. Even when my guy wasn't feeling it, I took the ego hit, sure. That's natural. But I wasn't any different. But I was me and proud of it. She couldn't fathom enjoying the lingerie that her hubby had requested she wear (anything other than utilitarian and granny panties was his request, I believe), nor the fact that he found her sexually attractive and wanted to enjoy gazing at her body. She never did wrap her head around it, and it literally broke my heart.
I may not look the way I want to look in the mirror, but several years back, I woke up one day, said screw this, and realized I was not waiting another single second to live my life the way I wanted to live it. I started doing things for me. To this day, putting myself first is hard, but I do it...and it does get easier. I was miserable years back, and it took some real crap dumped on me by my ex-husband to trigger my inner b!tch and fighting spirit, but FFS, I'm so tired of society telling me anything. I wrote a blog about it that I posted on here, if you're curious.
I'm a woman, damn it, not some stick figure child. I have curves and I don't give a crap who likes it. I LIKE IT. Society can go take a leap. I know there are a number of men who enjoy that Victoria Secret look. Screw that. Give me the Lane Bryant models hands down. Most men, when honest, find the curves of a woman sexy. I'm on the path I am to gain health. If I lose weight along the way, more power to me. If not, I am completely okay with my body. I may not like it, but I love me.
I'm not saying any of this to put you down or anything. I want you to see that it is possible to still be morbidly obese and to like myself. I would strongly suggest some reading, some journaling, and some counseling, because there is no magic pill or wand. You have to learn to love yourself now and to take charge of the rest of your life. A confident woman who is 100 pounds overweight is far sexier to a normal person than the insecure woman who is on the skinny side of her ideal weight, per the ridiculously outdated charts...
So the work you need to do first and foremost is in your head and your heart. I spent six months last year in maintenance just getting my head on straight, and it helped so much... And keeping your head straight is an ongoing process too. (hugs)
Thank you, you're right, I know. That is exactly what I struggle with. On the outside I'm a kind and confident person, but on the inside, I've never been good enough, for anyone. Especially not me. If I don't think I'm good enough, how can I expect anyone else to? In fact I believe a large part of the reason my marriage fell apart (other than the fact that we were too different) was because I was ashamed that my husband was attracted to me. Like there was something wrong with him that he could love this. You know? I blame myself for the way others treat me. My current partner is lovely. But he's not very good at relationships. A bad abusive marriage (his ex wife is psycho) and then 8 years on his own, I'm not sure he really knows how. But he refuses to try. Inside I blame myself that he doesn't, if I was thinner, prettier he would.
I have in my head that I need to be under 75kg to be happy. I'm a smart, educated woman. Even I know that's crap. But, it's like this unattainable goal in my head. I've realized I have been miserable my whole adult life, because of my weight.
I am at the moment back on Keto, but every day's a struggle. Feeling so defeated when it took me 4 months to gain back the weight that took me 8 months of hard work and daily effort to lose.
@kirkor I'm 5'10" and currently 105kg. I would like to be even at the upper level of a healthy BMI at 75kg. The lowest I've ever got, and I have been trying to lose weight my whole life, is 89kg. For about a week. Then I gained it all back.0 -
@shai74, I learned, the hard way, that to be successful at weight loss I must love me! Not in a conceited way at all. You have to realize something, we all admire others because they are good people, would help anyone, would give you the shirt off their back (note that none of these have anything to do with outward appearance)..... We have to find a way to think those things about ourselves too, because they are true, and we deserve our own love too! We have, on average, 300 negative thoughts about ourselves, every day! We have to find a way to change that and turn them into positives because our brain believes what it thinks! When I learned this, it changed me. It wasn't overnight since it takes work to change our thoughts, but it can be done! At 270 pounds I learned to love me. It's made a huge difference for me. I am now 205 pounds and still losing, slowly but losing. I hope this helps, some. Best to you! You matter! We all do!0
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It seems to me that we are not saying anything you don't already know. I totally understand how you can 'know' that you're loveable and desirable and still believe the opposite. I struggled with that double mind for a long time and was actually clinically depressed and suicideal at one time. I suggest you get some outside help and counselling. Beside as long as you feel this way about yourself losing weight won't make any difference. You NEED to be able to love yourself to be happy. So go and find someone who canhhelp you to love yourself. I'm now losing weight because I love me. Not out of self loathing like before. And it's so much easier this time.0
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Friend... I am US size 6 and I STILL battle those same exact feelings. I love the advice to get counseling and to do journaling--I will probably do that myself.
I do know that if you decide to lose weight for someone else, and they don't respond, it sucks and feels pointless. So you have to decide to do it for yourself. I also agree that a confident woman at any size is much sexier than a skinny insecure woman.
I spent some time in the inner city, and my ethnic neighbor noticed Id gained about 15 pounds--I was pregnant. She just dawned over my new curves! "Girl," she said, "You should try to stay this weight after you have that baby! You look gooooood!"
I. Was. Shocked. How could someone look better heavier?! Then it hit me: beauty is cultural. Find some friends who like your curves, and AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE people who put you down. It will do worlds of good for you.
Also, you might look into hypnosis--I did it with my pregnancy and it really changed my perception of my blossoming body.
One last thing I did, and you're going to think I'm crazy, but it has freed me from that daily depression: I threw out my scale. I haven't weighed myself in a year. I found that my entire day was controlled by what happened to that stupid number every single day--up and I was blue all day; down and I was happy. But it never moved more than 10 lb up or down in 4 years!! So I decided I was done being controlled by that and chunked it. It's been amazing.0 -
I just wanted to add to all the great things that everyone had said with this.... How much did you weigh when you got with your partner? My husband doesn't like that I am losing weight. He knows I have to, but he prefers me bigger. I was 305 when we got married. now I am about 240. Time and weight loss has made me a little less "alluring" to him, but he still loves me. May be just your partner like you bigger...
If that turns out to be true, don't let that detour your weight loss journey. Just know it MIGHT be true.0 -
Big hugs @shai74 are you sure you *know* what your partner feels about you or your weight? My experience is that we can never really know another's thoughts...often they are our own thoughts projected onto the other person. I can really sympathize with your thoughts as I can often do the same kind of thing. I have found Byron Katie's books most helpful, especially "I need your love...is that true?". Good luck and hope you feel better about life soon.0
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One last thing I did, and you're going to think I'm crazy, but it has freed me from that daily depression: I threw out my scale. I haven't weighed myself in a year. I found that my entire day was controlled by what happened to that stupid number every single day--up and I was blue all day; down and I was happy. But it never moved more than 10 lb up or down in 4 years!! So I decided I was done being controlled by that and chunked it. It's been amazing.
Thank you for your kind words. I know I can't throw out the scales though, If I get on them every morning I keep my weight under control. It's when I start avoiding them that I pile the weight on again. I think in my mind it won't be that bad when I do weigh myself and then I'm devastated to find I've gained 20lbs.totaloblivia wrote: »Big hugs @shai74 are you sure you *know* what your partner feels about you or your weight? My experience is that we can never really know another's thoughts...often they are our own thoughts projected onto the other person. I can really sympathize with your thoughts as I can often do the same kind of thing. I have found Byron Katie's books most helpful, especially "I need your love...is that true?". Good luck and hope you feel better about life soon.
I know I was 4kg heavier than I am now when we met. So pretty much the same. He used to want me every night. While I know that's not realistic long term, I'd settle for once a week. I honestly have no idea why he's so closed off in that department. He tells me that he withdraws when he's stressed, and his two teenage girls have been *kitten* from hell the last few months (if you can think of it, they've done it - short of getting knocked up so far) so it is understandable that he is stressed. I'm patient, understanding, supportive, I never yell or get upset or make it about me, even when his kids have blamed me for some of the stuff they've done. The insecure side of me says that regardless of what I consider "raising kids stress" (I have two of my own slightly older, I know - my 18yo daughter has a 2yo baby) if I was thinner, or someone else, he would still want me. The irony is, for the last two years of my marriage I didn't want my husband to touch me - at all. Now I'm starting to understand how that feels. Which is why I probably feel like it's a huge problem, because when I didn't want my husband anymore the marriage was over.
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One last thing I did, and you're going to think I'm crazy, but it has freed me from that daily depression: I threw out my scale. I haven't weighed myself in a year. I found that my entire day was controlled by what happened to that stupid number every single day--up and I was blue all day; down and I was happy. But it never moved more than 10 lb up or down in 4 years!! So I decided I was done being controlled by that and chunked it. It's been amazing.
Thank you for your kind words. I know I can't throw out the scales though, If I get on them every morning I keep my weight under control. It's when I start avoiding them that I pile the weight on again. I think in my mind it won't be that bad when I do weigh myself and then I'm devastated to find I've gained 20lbs.totaloblivia wrote: »Big hugs @shai74 are you sure you *know* what your partner feels about you or your weight? My experience is that we can never really know another's thoughts...often they are our own thoughts projected onto the other person. I can really sympathize with your thoughts as I can often do the same kind of thing. I have found Byron Katie's books most helpful, especially "I need your love...is that true?". Good luck and hope you feel better about life soon.
I know I was 4kg heavier than I am now when we met. So pretty much the same. He used to want me every night. While I know that's not realistic long term, I'd settle for once a week. I honestly have no idea why he's so closed off in that department. He tells me that he withdraws when he's stressed, and his two teenage girls have been *kitten* from hell the last few months (if you can think of it, they've done it - short of getting knocked up so far) so it is understandable that he is stressed. I'm patient, understanding, supportive, I never yell or get upset or make it about me, even when his kids have blamed me for some of the stuff they've done. The insecure side of me says that regardless of what I consider "raising kids stress" (I have two of my own slightly older, I know - my 18yo daughter has a 2yo baby) if I was thinner, or someone else, he would still want me. The irony is, for the last two years of my marriage I didn't want my husband to touch me - at all. Now I'm starting to understand how that feels. Which is why I probably feel like it's a huge problem, because when I didn't want my husband anymore the marriage was over.
My guy tends to turn off/away when stressed, too, which is all the time lately. But, I keep talking to him even when the conversation is one-sided and let him know how it all affects me, especially when he doesn't intend it. It has helped and he does make the effort and he's starting to see how he can use intimacy to mediate the effects of stress, too, so that helps, too, because it is helping him to see things in ways he never imagined before...0 -
Shai74, be true to yourself. Even if you are thin and even gorgeous it's still not enough for some. Thin beautiful women get wronged every day. Imagine how it must feel to bust your butt to look that way only to have your partner looking over your shoulder for the next best deal to come along? Treat yourself right. Never punish yourself. The grass is not always greener.0
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I really liked The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris. I eat up those sorts of books like candy because I like the whole "Know Thyself" mentality, but this was by far a game changer for me. It very clearly guides you through exploring your inner critic and and helps you very clearly take steps to break unhealthy habitual thought cycles. It especially tackles the myth of "if only I was x, I would be happy." If you're a reader and are brave enough to try some serious journalling, pick this up.0
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AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »I really liked The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris. I eat up those sorts of books like candy because I like the whole "Know Thyself" mentality, but this was by far a game changer for me. It very clearly guides you through exploring your inner critic and and helps you very clearly take steps to break unhealthy habitual thought cycles. It especially tackles the myth of "if only I was x, I would be happy." If you're a reader and are brave enough to try some serious journalling, pick this up.
I'm definitely a reader. I'll have a look, thanks.0 -
I'm definitely a reader. I'll have a look, thanks.
I think it took me six weeks or so to work through it the first time I read it, because he gives you the tools to address so many complicated things... that takes some time. And I go back and work for a few weeks at a time on new stuff that pops up as I start feeling better. It's good stuff.
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Everyone here has already said pretty much everything that needs saying. I second, third, fourth and fifth the counseling and journaling.
I will say this, I have been at both ends of the spectrum, very fit at 5'10" and a size 8US, don't know how much I weighed as I didn't own a scale, and I have been obese at 240 and almost a size 20. At a size 8, I had smaller clothes and a lot of attention from guys (I'm gay, so this did me no good LOL), a crappy job, a dead relationship and doubt every. damn. day. When I was around 200, I was fronting a rock band, singing my heart out, had (still have) an awesome job, and still got attention from guys (oh well, it's still nice LOL). I had no doubt of my badassery. It's all about loving what you do in life and who you are and those around you. I am losing now for medical reasons, and yes, I have many doubts about myself again, but those now stem from the fact that my body will no longer do as I ask.
Please, get counseling. Being thin will NOT make you better. It just won't. Worse, you asked what will happen if you never reach thin.....well, then you will have wasted an entire lifetime where you could have been happy and fulfilled, chasing something that wasn't going to help you anyway. Life is too short for that dear. I know this the hard way.0 -
AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »I really liked The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris. I eat up those sorts of books like candy because I like the whole "Know Thyself" mentality, but this was by far a game changer for me. It very clearly guides you through exploring your inner critic and and helps you very clearly take steps to break unhealthy habitual thought cycles. It especially tackles the myth of "if only I was x, I would be happy." If you're a reader and are brave enough to try some serious journalling, pick this up.
Thanks for this recommendation I will check this out too.
I'm not sure this will help but... for what It's worth, I feel just like you. and when I let that get the best of me, which is often, I gain weight.
Since meeting my partner I've gained 70lbs. Unfortunately he is NOT one of those guys who can appreciate a larger woman. He admits he is not attracted to me anymore. and so, there's not much going on in the bedroom. He says he still loves me, who I am and that's why we;re together but he says it's getting harder for him. Mostly though he says because he misses the things we used to do. I can't run with him anymore. I'm often tired and I always hurt. So where we used to walk from store to store, now I complain and ask if we can drive because my legs hurt.
Now this might sound bad, that he'll leave if I don't lose the weight, but it's an interesting situation because, that is who I was when I met him. That is who I want to be. That is where I'm happiest because I can do all those things. What it really means is my stress is under control and my thoughts and my mind are in a good place. My outward body is always a reflection of my inner body (mind). So weight loss for me is as much a mind game as anything else.
I know I don't have the answer for you, I don't think anyone does, but I just wanted you to know, I think this is unfortunately common. I think the mind game "is" the game. If we can't get the inside organized, the outside will always reflect that.
Sounds like there are many things that aren't working for you in your life. I'm not going to offer advise on what you should do about it, just that food is not the only part you need to focus on.
I sincerely hope you can find your way to happiness. I believe you create the happiness and then the weight loss will follow. No, I have no scientific evidence to back this up. Only personal study.
Hugs0
