refilling glycogen stores?
AngInCanada
Posts: 947 Member
I started out doing Atkins but I've kind of just went to a keto diet because I'm not quite following induction to a T. Anyways I was reading and some websites say its VITAL to replenish or refill glycogen stores once a week by having a high carb day. From what I understood you can keep your body in ketosis for years without having a high carb day but then these websites say you NEED a high carb day once a week to replenish the glycogen. I'd be more inclined to believe this for muscle building but for right now I want to send fat and maintain the muscle I have. I am running and doing Les Mills Pump (weight lifting). So what are your thoughts?
0
Replies
-
Glycogen is only needed for top-end athletic performance. Most of us do fine burning fat.0
-
I hope I don't need a high carb day because I tried that last weekend and felt awful. I want to avoid feeling like that.0
-
Also the reddit forum for ketogains is more about lifting and such. For the most part, our bodies will self-regulate and convert for the glycogen it needs. Watch how you feel. If you get the symptoms of low glycogen (whatever they are), consider upping your high-fiber veggies and such. I doubt very much that you'd need a lot of bread or sugary stuff. If you're going to give your body carbs, make them good ones, and make them work for you. Almost all of my carbs come from dairy and veg.0
-
Doing just plain Keto, I feel great! However the scale wasn't budging. I tried CarbNight (having what ever carb I want for a meal or two for dinner/dessert) the scale started moving. If the scale is moving and you're not having a Carb Day/Night, then do what makes you feel good. If the scale isn't budging and you want it to, give it a try if you'd like. I personally don't feel crappy the next day. I also work out 4-5 days a week doing cardio and heavy lifting with not a lot of weight to lose. TBH when I hit maintenance, I probably won't do the Carb Day/Night unless it's a special occasion. I prefer eating Keto than carbs now (except for fruit and Swedish fish
). 0 -
Doing just plain Keto, I feel great! However the scale wasn't budging. I tried CarbNight (having what ever carb I want for a meal or two for dinner/dessert) the scale started moving. If the scale is moving and you're not having a Carb Day/Night, then do what makes you feel good. If the scale isn't budging and you want it to, give it a try if you'd like. I personally don't feel crappy the next day. I also work out 4-5 days a week doing cardio and heavy lifting with not a lot of weight to lose. TBH when I hit maintenance, I probably won't do the Carb Day/Night unless it's a special occasion. I prefer eating Keto than carbs now (except for fruit and Swedish fish ).
I would wager a guess that your youth is helpful in the regard of bouncing back - you haven't had as much time to get "broken." LOL
And I agree - mixing things up to find the best blend for you is the only way to customize this way of eating to meet your own personal needs, which will never be exactly the same as anyone one else. So keep each and every idea in the back of your mind.
Just remember that any changes you make should be given 4-6 weeks minimum to determine effect. Sometimes you'll have a mild gain followed by a huge drop, so give any changes a fair test run before cancelling them!0 -
I think this is a good thing to try when you are close to your goal or in maintenance. Upping my carbs occasionally has helped me sometimes.0
-
A user here @DonPendergraft is doing keto and he runs 50M and I don't think he does refeeding or "carb days". Maybe he'll see this thread and comment. He's also in the facebook group, you could ask him there or message him on here.
EDIT: I take that back, I think last I heard he was back up to 16M but he used to do 50M. he hasn't been on keto that long so he's working his way back up. Anyway, you get the picture.
It is not an absolute must. But you absolutely must find what works for you. I do agree with that. But to simply walk around as a normal human being on a keto diet? No, it's not necessary.
The body builders do a cyclical keto diet, up the glycogen on purpose to refuel muscles before a heavy workout. Is it necessary? Who knows. Surely not for everyone. Surely it is for some.
0 -
I know several people who run, one ultra-marathons, on zero carb and never have any carb days. I also know people who lift without needing to have carb days.
And, darthluiggi is a body builder who does keto. He used to do carb days and carb loads, years ago when he started, but found them to be counter-productive to his goals. Now he just sticks to a fairly typical, and strict, keto diet without carb-loads and trains. He's not exactly suffering for it either, as you can see from his instagram. He's been doing keto for years (I want to say 13-14 years, but I forget for sure). Certainly long enough to prove you can lift without carb loading.
https://instagram.com/darthluiggi/
That's his instagram, in case you're interested. Note: Only watch the videos of him working out if you want to feel like a pathetic weenie.
0 -
https://instagram.com/darthluiggi/
That's his instagram, in case you're interested. Note: Only watch the videos of him working out if you want to feel like a pathetic weenie.
Made me laugh out loud. Ahh... yet, I started following him
0 -
It makes me wonder why people think they need carbs ......I work with nurses with important jobs and even they can't tell me what purpose those carbs serve. I'd rather not start eating too many again.0
-
https://instagram.com/darthluiggi/
That's his instagram, in case you're interested. Note: Only watch the videos of him working out if you want to feel like a pathetic weenie.
Made me laugh out loud. Ahh... yet, I started following him
lol, I follow him too. Sometimes it can be inspirational.0 -
https://instagram.com/darthluiggi/
That's his instagram, in case you're interested. Note: Only watch the videos of him working out if you want to feel like a pathetic weenie.
Made me laugh out loud. Ahh... yet, I started following him
He's also the owner of /r/ketogains if you ever want to ask him for help.
I've never done a carb refeed, even when I was far more active than I am now. Your body adapts to what it has, but it's not an overnight process. IMO, the people who get wrapped up in cycling carb days instead of just accepting a short term deload are simply making the adaption process take longer.0 -
Kitnthecat wrote: »It makes me wonder why people think they need carbs ......I work with nurses with important jobs and even they can't tell me what purpose those carbs serve. I'd rather not start eating too many again.
Your brain needs carbs! Carbs are the body's preferred fuel!
I still don't get the logic and rabid adherence to the latter. If carbs were truly the body's preferred fuel, why then, does the body store upwards of hundreds of thousands of calories as fat?
Now, there can be an argument for competitive powerlifters to do very specific carb-ups for the purpose of filling glycogen stores for a competition (powerlifters have slightly different goals from bodybuilders). Likewise, a handful of bursty, interval-style sports, such as boxing/MMA, could arguably benefit from similar carb-up periods to allow for the momentary "125% output" periods where glycogen shines.
Even then, though, you're talking very specific sports at competition levels, at which you're largely no longer talking about doing what they're doing for purposes of health.0 -
DarthLuiggi has been doing keto for about 14 years as of this interview from last September:
https://youtu.be/d0O9duM9hOw
My fiance sent me this a while back and asked me to take a look at it for info. He doesn't sit through long videos very well. It's an hour long video, but I really do recommend it - even if you're not into "gainz". There's some very interesting and useful information in the video, including some of the diet adjustments he's tried.
That guy's arms are ridiculous.
-T.
0 -
I can't help but think he skips leg day a little too often.
0 -
I have to say I shed a little tear. I am mourning to loss of some high carb items and thought a carb refeed would taste amazing right now lol.
Thanks for all of the help though. All of it makes sense!0 -
AngInCanada wrote: »I have to say I shed a little tear. I am mourning to loss of some high carb items and thought a carb refeed would taste amazing right now lol.
Thanks for all of the help though. All of it makes sense!
Carb addiction is hard to break. I've heard some really out there excuses for going back to eating carbs. Heck, I have one that was so great, I saved it as a screenshot. In the end, there's no requirement to eat any high carb items. Sorry.
0 -
Thanks for the video!
The Beast is into fitness big time and used to lift heavy. (Now he does MMA and obstacle racing) but the video will likely just help his mind be more settled with my new WOE, seeing this guy.
As for MMA and boxers maybe needing the glycogen stores, I don't think so. I think they'd still do better fat adapted to the max. I'd be more inclined to agree with the power lifting competitions because it's litterally seconds of effort. Professional MMA fighting is a schduled 15 minutes or 25 minutes of all out max effort. I could be wrong but I don't know that muscle glycogen would last that long anyway would it?
Edit: and.... not to be picking on anyone... but yeah. I agree. Looking at those fab arms... either he's a hard leg gainer only or he likely just don't like legs.
0 -
AngInCanada wrote: »I have to say I shed a little tear. I am mourning to loss of some high carb items and thought a carb refeed would taste amazing right now lol.
Thanks for all of the help though. All of it makes sense!
oh dear
well, at least now you know what you're up against.
0 -
AngInCanada wrote: »I have to say I shed a little tear. I am mourning to loss of some high carb items and thought a carb refeed would taste amazing right now lol.
Thanks for all of the help though. All of it makes sense!
Carb addiction is hard to break. I've heard some really out there excuses for going back to eating carbs. Heck, I have one that was so great, I saved it as a screenshot. In the end, there's no requirement to eat any high carb items. Sorry.
Don't tease us! Let's hear a couple of those really out there ones, including the one you took a screenshot of!0 -
Thanks for the video!
The Beast is into fitness big time and used to lift heavy. (Now he does MMA and obstacle racing) but the video will likely just help his mind be more settled with my new WOE, seeing this guy.
As for MMA and boxers maybe needing the glycogen stores, I don't think so. I think they'd still do better fat adapted to the max. I'd be more inclined to agree with the power lifting competitions because it's litterally seconds of effort. Professional MMA fighting is a schduled 15 minutes or 25 minutes of all out max effort. I could be wrong but I don't know that muscle glycogen would last that long anyway would it?
Edit: and.... not to be picking on anyone... but yeah. I agree. Looking at those fab arms... either he's a hard leg gainer only or he likely just don't like legs.
MMA rounds are 5 minutes (or less) with a one minute rest period. Non-title matches don't exceed 3 rounds, and title matches don't exceed 5 rounds, so it's not a full 15/25 minutes straight of all-out effort, but more like Metcon-style high intensity intervals.
I'm referring more to the explosive power needs, which generally come largely from glycogen. A "train low fight high" type of cycle could be useful for maintaining a higher base level of endurance, which is certainly an advantage in itself. Add a little extra glycogen on top of that (not to mention adding a little poundage after making weight) for extra explosive power, not unlike training with weighted equipment and taking the weights off for the competition. Whether such a routine is necessary is probably arguable, but again, if you're not doing it for competition, it's probably moot anyway, and if you are doing it for competition, you've probably dialed in your diet as a whole enough to know what helps and what doesn't for your own style and routine.0 -
- I had to heavily edit the screenshot, to remove personal identifying information, but I promise I didn't change the actual content or meaning of what was being said. God told this person that avoiding carbs was wrong and sinful. I don't know if they were talking about potatoes and rice, or if Doritos also count as food God created and we would be sinning to avoid eating.
- One person needed to go back to including some carbs (from keto to around 100g / day) because they were losing weight too quickly and it's not healthy to lose more than 2 pounds a week.
Those are the two that come to mind, this morning. I've heard others though. I just can't recall them at the moment.0 - I had to heavily edit the screenshot, to remove personal identifying information, but I promise I didn't change the actual content or meaning of what was being said. God told this person that avoiding carbs was wrong and sinful. I don't know if they were talking about potatoes and rice, or if Doritos also count as food God created and we would be sinning to avoid eating.
-
Oh, Goat, I'm dying over here...
My two cents. FWIW. I was stalled. I was 15lb to goal. And I did 2 rounds of carbNite (10 days apart). I transitioned ok after the first one (one day of mild fatigue) and lost a measly amount. A fraction of a pound. It did break the stall though. The second round...Holy Cannoli! For two days, despite good electrolytes, it felt like a VERY pissed off Wolverine was trapped with Sabertooth in my brain. So I've lost 3lb. Which is nice. I was supposed to do another refeed yesterday though, but I decided that I'll wait until my next epic stall, because yanking my fuel system around is NOT pleasant whatsoever. And I really have no desire to faceplant in sweets right now anyway regardless.
And I can't be sure that it wasn't a renewed obsession with logging that budged the scale anyway. Or my body just finally decided to let go of the weight independently of jerking my keto-adaptation around.
You could have a cheat if you want. But you haven't been in ketosis long enough to become fully adapted. And I would wait until I was 150% certain that I could go right back on-plan immediately after.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I can't help but think he skips leg day a little too often.
Haha! I was thinking that, too. It could just be genetics, though. Fiance does a well-rounded workout including some pretty heavy leg days and still has small calves and relatively small legs compared to the rest of his body.
So @AngInCanada, what high carb items are you missing? Maybe we can help identify the craving and find something that'll help fill the void you feel?
-T.
0 -
From what I understand, as a woman trying to lose weight it's best to limit yourself to one carb meal, like a sweet potato or have some ice cream after your regular day. Start small like that or you may end up gaining weight on the weekend then spending a whole week trying to lose it.0
-
Dragonwolf wrote: »I can't help but think he skips leg day a little too often.
So @AngInCanada, what high carb items are you missing? Maybe we can help identify the craving and find something that'll help fill the void you feel?
-T.
Chips chips and chips.
0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I can't help but think he skips leg day a little too often.
Haha! I was thinking that, too. It could just be genetics, though. Fiance does a well-rounded workout including some pretty heavy leg days and still has small calves and relatively small legs compared to the rest of his body.
So @AngInCanada, what high carb items are you missing? Maybe we can help identify the craving and find something that'll help fill the void you feel?
-T.
I suspect it is that he's just a hard-gainer in the legs, but it still looks funny because his arms are so huge. :laugh:- I had to heavily edit the screenshot, to remove personal identifying information, but I promise I didn't change the actual content or meaning of what was being said. God told this person that avoiding carbs was wrong and sinful. I don't know if they were talking about potatoes and rice, or if Doritos also count as food God created and we would be sinning to avoid eating.
- One person needed to go back to including some carbs (from keto to around 100g / day) because they were losing weight too quickly and it's not healthy to lose more than 2 pounds a week.
Those are the two that come to mind, this morning. I've heard others though. I just can't recall them at the moment. Oh my.
You know, at least the second one has a certain amount of logic to it. Said logic might be flawed, but it does make a certain amount of sense to tinker with carb intake to adjust rate of weight loss, especially if you're struggling with eating enough to slow it through sheer caloric intake. I do wish I had that kind of problem, though.
That second one, though? Wow. I've seen Christianity used to justify quite a number of crazy things, but that one is just...wow. Does that mean I get use my being Norse Pagan as sufficient justification to drink mead to my heart's (and liver's) content? After all, that stuff's the drink of the gods. 0 - I had to heavily edit the screenshot, to remove personal identifying information, but I promise I didn't change the actual content or meaning of what was being said. God told this person that avoiding carbs was wrong and sinful. I don't know if they were talking about potatoes and rice, or if Doritos also count as food God created and we would be sinning to avoid eating.
-
There's recipes for LCHF chips! Tortilla chips? I think you can make cracker type things from flax seeds and some other stuff. Potato chips? I've done kale chips, seaweed chips, and radish chips! Check out the internet for a recipe that looks good to you! Also, flavored pork rinds suit that craving for me! I like the hot sauce or bbq flavor. 0 carb!0
-
Zuchini chips.0
-
I was a pretty hardcore chip-o-holic. I don't really miss them anymore.
Pork rinds really help fill that particular void for me. They are good with dips, too, like sour cream. Mmm...
Oh man. Now I wish I had sour cream because these pork rinds are sitting in the cabinet beckoning me!
And yeah, kale and seaweed chips are awesome, but I ate those before I went keto. I'll have to check the ones I used to have and see what the nutritional info is like.
-T.
0
This discussion has been closed.