Searching for the right mix...

lovesretirement

Hi there!

I am 62. I have been on every diet plan known to mankind and have lost/gained weight time and time again. I joined MFP June 2013 and was losing so slowly that I quit for 6 months. I recommitted in December 2014, got a personal trainer, and have logged in for 160 days. In that time, I have lost 15 pounds. There have been months when I have not lost anything and when I do lose, it's mere ounces. Maybe an average of 3 lbs a month is normal for my age?? Should I buy into the concept that older folks need less food regardless of exercise?

My calories have ranged from 1200-1400. Each month I try something new to get things moving along. I have eaten exercise cals back one month and the next month eaten none. I have changed macros, too. Now I am ready to up my calories because nothing else is working to get a productive weekly weight loss, especially given my exercise regimen. When I do have a cheat meal at the urging of my trainer, the weight will bump up for a day or two then settle back with sometimes losing a few ounces.

So. I am ready to increase. I have nothing to lose but weight, right?

Stats: 62, 5'5", 224.4 lbs Body fat 37.6

Exercise:
Mon. Aquazumba 60 min
Tues. body pump class 60 min (started this month)
Wed. Strength training with trainer (lower or upper) 30 min
Aquafit (after training) 60 min
Thurs. body pump class 60 min
Fri. Strength training with trainer (lower or upper) 30 min
Aquazumba ( after training) 60 min
Sat/Sun. Yoga/rest

According to Scooby and other online calculators, this is what I should be eating.
(My trainer worked this out for me when I started, but I felt it was too much)

My BMR is 1639. TDEE is 2541.
A 25% reduction is 1906 cals per day.

My plan is to turn off MFP's option to add exercise to the daily goal since TDEE already has it added. My macros are set at 30 carb, 30 fat, and 40 protein. Fiber is set to 30 and sodium is 1800.

I was using a Fibit but just changed to a Garmin Vivo2 which I can wear in the pool. I'm getting to know it and only use it to track steps..not anything else.

Any and all suggestions/advice will be welcomed.
My start day is June 1, and I have some planning to do.

TIA,
Connie

MandaLeigh123

Welcome to the group. Good idea to change thongs up. You have been doing a low calorie diet for a long time! Its a good idea to do a diet break for 8-12 weeks and do a full metabolic reset. Slowly up your calories until you are at TDEE then stay there so your body has a chance to recover :-)
When your body is ready, then cut your calories. 25% is a pretty aggressive cut amount. I think EM2WL recommends 20% but most people here are doing smaller cuts. It gives your body more fuel for your workouts.
Take some time to read all the posts at the top of the group: FAQs and beginner information.
You workout ALOT ...your calories on Scooby seem right to me but I am no expert
One of my MFP friends is your age... Lemme find her for you.

luluinca

Hi lovesretirement.........I'll wander into this conversation because I am 65, although unfortunately, I'm not retired yet.....

It sounds to me like you need to do a metabolic reset, and no I wouldn't buy into the lower calories as we age theory. I think the reason that is recommended by some is perhaps some of us move less as we get older. I don't think you have to worry about that based on your exercise routine............I know I don't.

I lost most of my weight eating about 1400 calories and finally stalled out last year after losing about 45 lbs. I changed trainers and he helped me do a reset. I gradually increased my calories over the course of a couple of months and worked my way up to about 2000 calories. I didn't actually gain any weight there but maintained for awhile.

As my calories increased so did the intensity of my workouts and my hunger. It was exactly what he wanted. And then I began eating at a deficit again. I average about 1750 calories a day, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. I've lost another 15 lb doing this and am now only about 7 or 8 lbs away from my goal.

I'm working through a hip flexor injury right now so I've dropped my calories a little because I'm just not working quite as hard as I was before the injury.

Don't let people tell you what you can and can't do because of your age...........you know what you can and can't do already............trust yourself and maybe your trainer, it sounds like you might have found a good one.

Hope this helps....

trishadams

Welcome Connie! These ladies have offered some great advice and are steering you in the right direction. Seniors only need less food due to sarcopenia (muscle loss as we age) and reduced activity. You are pretty activie and your strength training will help you to rebuild and maintain muscle that's been lost. But, in order for that to happen you also need to feed the muscle . So, your macros are set at a good starting point. Since you are eating below BMR, I'd start there and gradually increase cals at an interval you feel comfortable with. Maybe 100 cals every few days or week. Once you get to TDEE, hang out there for a good while before cutting

trishadams

Oops, got cut off.

....Once you get to TDEE, hang out there for a good while before cutting. When you do start your cut, start at 10-15%, returning to TDEE every 4-8 weeks.

Have you read the metabolism reset guide? It outlines the process on great detail. http://eatmore2weighless.com/the-metabolism-reset-guide/

lovesretirement

Thanks for all info and suggestions! I am still reading and researching and basically trying to wrap my head around it.

I'm not convinced that I have severely damaged my metabolism to warrant a full reset. I say this because while my loss is slow, averaging 3 lbs a month over the course of 160 days, it has not completely come to a standstill. If I had already lost quite a bit and THEN stalled, like Lulucina, I think I might need the reset.

I have been eating 1200-1400 cals, exercising, and working with the trainer for almost 6 months. I just feel that at my weight and activity level, I should be losing a bit more.

I am going to gradually increase my calories, though, to see what happens. I considered zigzagging them but am leary of introducing two different changes at the same time. At any rate, I have a week to decide on something. Quitting is not an option, and I must find what works for my body. I am going to continue to read through these threads and the website.

Thanks,
Connie

heybales

I'll mention - if you are only going to give it a week - forget it right now - not going to work in one week.

And 3 lbs a month is great, that 0.75 lb weekly, but indeed with that activity level and that low level of eating, sounds like it should be more very easily.

But - if potential TDEE really is around 2500, and you have suppressed it by 20%, which is easily done, that means you have a suppressed TDEE of 2000.

Now, eating at average say 1300 (if between 1200-1400 really is avg 1300), that should be 1.4 lbs a week.

So you should still be losing something above 0.75 lb weekly. Unless the stress of undereating and that exercise is causing increased cortisol to be slowly packing on the water weight, masking some of that fat loss.

Or because of undereating enough, you have some binge meals or binge days that are not terribly accurate for logging and it wipes out a week of deficit, but actually packs on fat for that day.

So just saying - you won't see anything to what you'd consider positive in 1 week - you should see easy weight gain actually. Water weight.

lovesretirement

@heybales "At any rate, I have a week to decide on something."

What I meant was I am in the midst of deciding on something...whether starting with TDEE with cut OR doing a reset.

As I stated in my first post, my start day for this is Monday, June 1.

Previous changes in my journey have been made at the beginning of the month, and I stick with that change for 4-8 weeks.

I agree, there would be no discernible difference in a mere 7 days.

Thanks for your input.
Connie

MandaLeigh123

heybales wrote: »

And 3 lbs a month is great, thats 0.75 lb weekly, but indeed with that activity level and that low level of eating, sounds like it should be more very easily.


Now, eating at average say 1300 (if between 1200-1400 really is avg 1300), that should be 1.4 lbs a week.

This is where you take the time to think about your die, which is exactly what you are doing. If you are slowly losing, that is great. But with your numbers, you should be losing a higher amount. If you aren't, then something is wrong.
Either, your body has adjusted and slowed down your metabolism.
Your body has increased your cortisol and slowed down your weight loss.
Maybe cheat meals are too cheaty or you aren't logging your food properly.
These are all just things to consider.

You may not have completely stopped losing yet, but you will eventually. Or it will keep slowing down.
First 1/2 pound per week lost.
Then 1/4 pound per week lost.
Then plateau and you lose nothing and nothing and nothing.
Then you'll have to make a choice, you either lower your calories below 1200 (NOT RECOMMENDED!)
Or you see it's time to fix your metabolism and you start eating more.

The longer you continue to eat a low calorie diet, the longer it will take to fix your metabolism.
I started my metabolism reset before I completely stopped losing. I had slowed down to about 1/2 pound a week, but with my calorie deficit being GIANT math wise, I should have been losing close to 2 pounds per week. Hindsight, that's not healthy, but the numbers were showing me something was wrong. Calories in were far less than calories out and my weight lose was slowing and slowing.

I put your numbers in Scooby, with your age, weight and height at the 5-6x/week strenuous activity because it's definitely more than 3-5 moderate.

TDEE 2825
A 10% defecit has you eating 2543/day
for a weight loss of 0.6lbs per week

Even with moderate activity
TDEE 2538
A 10% deficit has you eating 2285/day
for a weight loss of 0.5lbs per week

A 15% deficit has you eating 2158/day
for a weight loss of 0.8lbs per week

So if you are saying you are eating 1200-1400 a day, and only losing 0.75lb, the numbers show that there is something going on there.

Good luck figuring it out! Everyone here is only trying to help, because a lot of has been in your shoes and have also been very resistant to give it a go. I, in particular, have the first response of "No, I don't think so" when anyone, especially people on the internet give me advice. Just remember everyone's advice is coming from a good spot! If you are going to only be losing 0.75lbs a week, wouldn't it be better to do that eating more?

lovesretirement

Oh yes..I do want to eat more! Who wouldn't? This info is invaluable, and I appreciate all responses! I am ready to begin the process of fueling my body appropriately and not tearing it down with all my workouts!

Thanks!

heybales

Well, just a little tear down, since that's the only way the body improves.
Tear it down, feed it well, let it rest, let it build it back up stronger!

Actually, the big deficits effect the recovery first, which is impaired in a diet anyway.
Eventually without getting needed repair, the workouts start becoming not so good, not tearing down anymore, because you don't have the strength or stamina to do that anymore.
So while the workout feels intense, it because it's with an unrecovered body, but in reality, it's mediocre and not asking for much.

So fuel those workouts, tear that body down, and let it rest!

But that doesn't sound nearly as inspiring as "no pain, no gain" or "work through the pain" or "_____ insert your own I'm tired ______". ;-)

lovesretirement

Last week, I began eating my exercise calories back in prep for increasing today.

Beginning today, I have my calories set for 2,000. After setting my MFP setting to active, they recommend 2020 to lose a pound a week and estimated maintenance is 2550. I may go up to maintenance cals, but for now I just kinda want to test the waters.

I have a couple of questions that have probably been answered, but I can't wrap my head around all the math, so please bear with me.

- on high exercise days (like body pump burns 550) do I eat part of those OVER the set 2,000?
- I rest on Saturday/Sunday so should I set my cals at my BMR?

Thanks,
Connie

CarrieBeard

Great questions Connie. I'm interested to see what responses are... I too have wondered the same things.

mymodernbabylon

You eat your TDEE on EVERY day as it's meant to be an average over the week. IF you go over your normal exercise amount (say you decided to go for an extra run or something like that) than you can eat back half of those calories. But honestly, I just stick with TDEE and run with it. It works.

Oh, and if you are hungry - eat more. Listen to your body!

heybales

In addition - you changing MFP to Active is NOT the same Active (which there isn't) in the TDEE charts.

MFP activity levels are based on NO exercise being done - merely daily life. They are non-exercise TDEE basically.

Your guess from the 5 rough TDEE levels should have included daily life activity if above sedentary 45 hr deskjob/commute, and exercise added together.

Since setting a manual eating goal, selection of activity level on MFP and their weight loss goal isn't entirely useful for much of anything.

Don't try to combine 2 very different methods, it'll be confusing and you'll be eating too much.

lovesretirement

So don't use MFP, use Scooby? And eat the same amount everyday regardless of exercise burn?

Scooby has my BMR at 1646. TDEE at 2840. To lose fat is 2130 @ 25% reduction. (5-6 hours strenuous exercise)

I am headed into lunch and I am still full from the protien shake at snack!
I have my meals planned out and still lack 80 calories from 2,000.
How in the world can I work in another 130???

Okay... Going back to customize MFP.

Thanks.

Ps..if there is anything else I need to do, lay it on me now.

Connie

heybales

Yes, same goal daily. Because you are looking at _weekly_ activity estimate, and then that is divided by 7 for average _daily_ TDEE level.

Then % off deficit of that daily TDEE level that is based on weekly average activity.

So some days the deficit is more, some days it's less. The average for the week (if all guesses were right) is the 25% (until down to 80 left, then 20%).


MFP when used normally and correctly is doing a literal daily TDEE level with deficit.

They estimate daily non-exercise calorie burn based on your selection of daily non-exercise activity.
Take a deficit off.
Then when you exercise it you log it, which increases the TDEE to that day's, and then deficit.

They just use blocks of calories rather than %.

And while the block can appear unreasonable on rest days, it could be more reasonable on workout days, and in fact if done right the weekly average could be exactly the same as weekly TDEE method you are talking about here.

lovesretirement

@heybales Thanks for your help!

lovesretirement

Ok..my first week eating more is over.
I had my cals set to 2000 and my 7 day average was 1967. While I was very careful with weighing, measuring, and logging , I tried to leave at least a few calories to account for errors.
Staying within macro range was a challenge especially with fat.
My daily weight ranged between 224-225...never lower/never lower.
This week I will increase by 100 cals bringing it to 2100.
I was more energized during workouts and slept better.

I guess the next step is just to continue to watch and wait, huh?

Thanks!
Connie

mymodernbabylon

Well done!

heybales

Great work - it's nice to see positive changes so quickly that let you know this isn't the wrong path.

retirehappy

Happy for you, hope you end up with heaps more cals. to play with

MandaLeigh123

Great report!

lovesretirement

Hi there!

I have just completed my second week of increase. It was harder this week, I think. I struggled to eat enough and keep it healthy at the same time.

Week's average cals: 2015
My weight increased some mid week going from 225 Monday to 227 Wednesday-Saturday.
Sunday and this morning back to 226.2.

I felt my resolve weakening last week, but despite that, I will bump up to 2200 this week and try to get there.
Should I try to go higher than that this week? Any suggestions on what to eat that's not junk eating?

I did read many of these threads again throughout the week. I was searching for folks at my weight who had success with this process. Most entries I read were folks already well UNDER 200 and (who were at what I would consider my goal weight) starting/going through this process.

Still sleeping well and am fueled for workouts!
I know that eating less is not the answer, and I am trying to trust the process.

Thanks for any and all responses.
Connie

retirehappy

I suppose you need more protein? If so here is a good list to select from Eat, Train, Progress group's sarauk2sf:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/926789/protein-sources/

lovesretirement

@retirehappy..thanks! I think I'm okay on the protein..195 grams in today's menu! It's filling in the meals with food that stays within carb/fat macros that's difficult for me. If I were eating lots of junk, I would have no problem with 2,000+ calories...like getting a Sonic Oreo blast at 1,000 calories would be ideal!

mymodernbabylon

Don't worry about going over with carbs or fat - it's the protein you need to focus on. AND don't worry about having some treats in there. Do what is sustainable for life - I eat a few sweets, drink wine and beer...as long as my protein is good and I'm eating mainly in a 'healthy' manner.

Have you gone on the main EM2WL website and checked out their testimonials? You'll find quite a few people who were above 200 lb and went on to success.

XavierNusum

mymodernbabylon wrote: »

Don't worry about going over with carbs or fat - it's the protein you need to focus on. AND don't worry about having some treats in there. Do what is sustainable for life - I eat a few sweets, drink wine and beer...as long as my protein is good and I'm eating mainly in a 'healthy' manner.

Have you gone on the main EM2WL website and checked out their testimonials? You'll find quite a few people who were above 200 lb and went on to success.

This is it right here!

lovesretirement

I have been combing the threads for this and cannot seem to find the answer though I know it is here somewhere...

When will I know that I have reached my maintenance? Is it when I reach a point when the scale number will not drop back down?

I'm close to finishing my third week. The high has reached 227.6 but still drops to 226.2 or so. I started at 226.
I've done well with reaching the 2200 cals this week on most days. But, I am bloated.

I am going to drop 60 minutes (one of the aquafits) from my exercise routine as I was really tired last week. I am keeping everything else including the body pump classes 2x a week, though..they are intense and the reason I need to drop something.

Thanks!
Connie

XavierNusum

You'll know you are at maintenance when the next calorie increase (~250 calories) causes a sustainable 1 lb weight increase. Then you know you crossed maintenance and are now in surplus.

heybales

2 week 250 test.
After being at what you think is TDEE for a couple weeks, and not seeing any change on valid weigh-in days...
Eat 250 more calories daily for 2 weeks.
Should only gain 1 lb slowly if prior level was indeed TDEE.
And with those workouts - not even fat weight totally.
If no gain of only 1 lb, prior level wasn't TDEE.
Test again.

If fast water weight gain or more than 1 lb - topped off glucose stores. Which wouldn't need topping off if prior level was maintenance.

Also measure, I wouldn't be surprised if your body is making some improvements now while dropping fat, though weight stays the same..