Cortisol
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@GrannyMayOz so do you take them in am & pm?0
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@totaloblivia - The neck/arm pain is not from an injury? I was having such stress that my neck was sore, and I went and had a massage done which helped a lot. She also recommended a heating pad, and just trying to relax. I tend to bunch up my shoulders a lot when stressed and I had to really work at trying to keep those muscles relaxed.0
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@totaloblivia do you have an Ikea near you? I had the same problem for years then stayed in a holiday rental place that had one of these pillows. I had a brilliant couple of nights sleep and got one as soon as I could and its been mostly fine ever since! I have had to put a narrow pillow with it as well to give my neck the best position for me but that was trial and error. They are a bit expensive but in the long run a lot cheaper than keeping on buying pillow afte pillow...like hubby does...stubborn man!!! Lol.
I just did a search for it in Ikea. Its called GOSA LILJA. Not sure if they still do them or not though but there were several offered online.
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@Kate, no, I only take one tablet mid-morning. I could take another before bed, but haven't found the need so far. I'm back to sleeping like a baby (or better, actually) and waking feeling rested and great! Admittedly, most nights I'm getting about 8 hours 15 mins actual sleep according to my fitbit. In bed for around 8½ hours. I used to lay awake for ages before I could fall asleep, but then sleep well. Now I fall asleep quickly too!.
@Jane oh wow, that pillow looks amazing! I've been sleeping for years with my nightdress rolled into a tube under the front of my pillow to create that profile, which means I wake to move it every time I roll over in bed. I am so going to get one of those! Hubby will be disappointed if I actually start to wear the nightie again though ha ha!!!0 -
Wow! So I took my blood ketone reading this morning and it was 0.2 - not ketonic. I've read in various places that 0.5 is the minimum recording for a ketogenic state. I put my macros into the flexibleketogenic.com/?m=0 calculator each day and have been having a lot of low days, but always over "+1 equals mildly ketogenic". I haven't measured my blood for a while now; last reading was 8th May at 0.7. I am pretty much always 0.7 and have only twice seen 1.2 as my highest. So obviously (why?) I'm not a high ketone producer even when I was on 15g or less of carbs per day, every day for months on end. Since I raised my carb goal to c40 grams (on 13th May) perhaps I've not been ketogenic that whole time. But my weight has been behaving better since then because I also started taking the valerian. It's all a giant mystery isn't it?
Just maybe the lower fat days have helped too. Who knows LOL
PS My calorie goals sometimes show as higher than 1450 because of exercise. As you can see, I rarely eat any more because of it.0 -
I do have an orthopedic pillow but not one like this. Thanks very much for the tip, we do have an IKEA in Belfast so I will go and look when I get the chance. You guys are all so helpful!jumanajane wrote: »@totaloblivia do you have an Ikea near you? I had the same problem for years then stayed in a holiday rental place that had one of these pillows. I had a brilliant couple of nights sleep and got one as soon as I could and its been mostly fine ever since! I have had to put a narrow pillow with it as well to give my neck the best position for me but that was trial and error. They are a bit expensive but in the long run a lot cheaper than keeping on buying pillow afte pillow...like hubby does...stubborn man!!! Lol.
I just did a search for it in Ikea. Its called GOSA LILJA. Not sure if they still do them or not though but there were several offered online.
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@totaloblivia - The neck/arm pain is not from an injury? I was having such stress that my neck was sore, and I went and had a massage done which helped a lot. She also recommended a heating pad, and just trying to relax. I tend to bunch up my shoulders a lot when stressed and I had to really work at trying to keep those muscles relaxed.
Yes I bunch my shoulders a lot when sleeping, so could be that. I will have to look out for a good massager! Thanks for the tip!0 -
Thanks, was ranting yesterday as so tired and in pain. I took valerian last night before bed and slept well, don't know if it's cause and effect but feel a lot better regardless. I will look out for a physio as you suggest. I don't know what I did, but maybe Thursday's side plank catching up with me.GrannyMayOz wrote: »Oh gosh @totaloblivia I'm so sorry about your shoulder and the sleeping issues. It could be a frozen shoulder. I had something similar some years ago now (maybe 8 or so) and went to a physiotherapist. Unfortunately, she'd had a similar injury herself a while previously and was treating me for what she'd had, when that wasn't what was wrong with me. So after 6 or so visits she still didn't win. Then the light came on over her head and she fixed me in 2 visits. So I'd recommend a physio - one that listens carefully. Strangely enough, one of my cousins just got this last week as well.
I don't know about combining the supplements. It's hard to find out about reactions between natural supplements. You've been taking the other 3 already without problems? Perhaps add the valerian in at a different time of the day to those if you can? My naturopath had said to take the valerian around half an hour before bed, but I'm now taking them at some point in the morning so I have a peaceful day, and I still sleep well anyway.
Hope you solve both problems really easily and soon!
I was obviously way wrong about you being in ketosis OK. I "run low" on ketones too and have never made it past 1.3 mmol. Hope it all works out for your highest good and thanks for being there for all f us.
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I ordered the Sytrinol; will take about a week to get here. Maybe I'll find out if the HSD enzyme is my problem. Thanks, Jane for posting the Cortisol Connection link! Does anyone else plan to take it?0
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Oh, that's perfectly OK, the result was a shock to me too! Thank you for your kindness, and to you for being there alsototaloblivia wrote: »I was obviously way wrong about you being in ketosis OK. I "run low" on ketones too and have never made it past 1.3 mmol. Hope it all works out for your highest good and thanks for being there for all f us.
I am happy to hear that the valerian seemed to relax you enough for an overdue good night's sleep! I looked at our Ikea online catalogue and there was no mention of the pillows
Found a few 'lookalikes' but they weren't the same. I hope you have more luck in Belfast.
I haven't had a chance to read everything and decide yet. Hubby is really cramping my style, and he won't be back at work properly until next Tuesday. Then I'll start on my hugely long list of 'things to catch up on'.wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »I ordered the Sytrinol; will take about a week to get here. Maybe I'll find out if the HSD enzyme is my problem. Thanks, Jane for posting the Cortisol Connection link! Does anyone else plan to take it?
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"GrannyMayOz wrote: »So obviously (why?) I'm not a high ketone producer even when I was on 15g or less of carbs per day, every day for months on end. ... But my weight has been behaving better since then because I also started taking the valerian. It's all a giant mystery isn't it?
Not really a giant mystery. You've made a valuable discovery -- ketone levels tell you nothing and have no effect on weight loss.
You're still making a bunch of ketones, but you're utilizing most of them. The blood level just gives you a snapshot during the day of how much you're NOT utilizing, and that level varies through-out the day.
If you have ANY ketones in your blood, that means your are breaking down fat. The level is regulated by your liver, and it's different for everybody. There is no homeostatic level like there is for blood sugar. Personally, I think it was nonsensical for Phinney and Volek to describe "optimal" levels in their books, but as you're finding out, there is no "optimal". I just wish more people would discover the same thing. 0 -
Thanks @wabmester, I was hoping you'd still be reading the thread. Today's reading is 0.3 despite only 20C 117F and 73P yesterday and a 'flexible rating' of 1.88. My readings are always done first thing in the morning before anything passes my lips.
But thank you. I had read and forgotten about low ketones meaning that I'm using what I'm producing. Darned thrifty body keeps everything LOL
TMI unsavoury topic but my stools (what a stupid word) were a little light-coloured during the days I was losing weight steadily. That has to have some correlation, but what? It's all back to normal now, and I'd rather have good colour, which to me shows that everything is working well in my body.
However, I'm happy that the 300 gram gain from Monday's food is almost gone this morning. I'm only 200 grams above my lowest of last Friday, which is far less 'bouncy' than I have been so far. So my amateur-sleuth conclusion is still that the valerian/cortisol issue is happily on track and I'll continue doing this.
My body is most certainly changing composition. My hands and wrists must surely have reached goal now by the look of them LOL I can feel cheek and jaw bones when I touch my face; the sides of my hips are hard, as are the tops of my thighs. I've always had very strong thighs so there's plenty of muscle bulk there. Still can't see the quads for fat, but it gives me hope it may one day show, though my bikini days (which never existed anyway) are surely over Even on my one brief foray into goal weight on CICO I still had massively fat thighs. This time, the fat is leaving that area - a true miracle. 0 -
I read this http://cortisolconnection.com/ch4_4.php and it sounds so much like what's been happening to me for years. My doctor looked at my labs and doesn't think I have a cortisol problem, but since the cortisol reactivated by HSD doesn't show up in lab work I think that explains why I have all the symptoms without it showing in labs. For my doctor, though, my symptoms mean nothing unless the lab numbers are off. "Eat less" (how can I, at this point) "and exercise more."
If what Dr. Talbott says in his book is correct, it explains why everything I've done to lose weight over the years has had very, very little effect and has gotten more difficult the older I am. And now that I'm really old, it's almost impossible. It's taken me almost half a year (not all on MFP) to lose 12 measly pounds, which I know would return in a heartbeat if I started eating a 'normal' amount of vegetables again. I hope he's right, and I hope the Sytrinol is effective as he says it is. That would be beyond amazing.0 -
@wheatlessgirl66 really hope that it helps you - keep us up to date. looks really interesting. I might look into this myself.0
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@totaloblivia Thank you! I'm eager to get it started, and I'll let everyone know if it works.
In case anyone's interested, sytrinol is also very helpful in lowering cholesterol. http://www.wholefoodsmagazine.com/supplements/features/cholesterol-two-sides-story0 -
wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »In case anyone's interested, sytrinol is also very helpful in lowering cholesterol.
I was interested enough to look into it a bit. "Sytrinol" is apparently a made-up name that somebody trademarked. The actual stuff in it is nobiletin and tangeretin. Basically ground-up citrus peels. It should be good for you -- the peels contain most of the micronutrients.0 -
Personally, I think it was nonsensical for Phinney and Volek to describe "optimal" levels in their books, but as you're finding out, there is no "optimal". I just wish more people would discover the same thing.
Their rationale was sound, the uptake of ketones by the brain has been measured and it rises steeply with concentration up to a peak. If blood ketones are 0.2 the brain is using a lot more glucose than at 1.2, for example.
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Their rationale was sound, the uptake of ketones by the brain has been measured and it rises steeply with concentration up to a peak. If blood ketones are 0.2 the brain is using a lot more glucose than at 1.2, for example.
Where is the glucose coming from though if I've been below 50 grams of carbs every day (except one) since 23rd January this year? I was below 15 grams for most of it, but increased to an average of maybe 25 grams the past few weeks. The answer's probably obvious, but not to me right now. Or is my body making glucose from my fat cells or something?
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wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »In case anyone's interested, sytrinol is also very helpful in lowering cholesterol.
I was interested enough to look into it a bit. "Sytrinol" is apparently a made-up name that somebody trademarked. The actual stuff in it is nobiletin and tangeretin. Basically ground-up citrus peels. It should be good for you -- the peels contain most of the micronutrients.
Yes--interesting, isn't it? I have a brother who has always eaten oranges like an apple; just bites into them, peel and all. He's never been overweight. I always teased him, but i should have been copying him. 0 -
wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »In case anyone's interested, sytrinol is also very helpful in lowering cholesterol.
I was interested enough to look into it a bit. "Sytrinol" is apparently a made-up name that somebody trademarked. The actual stuff in it is nobiletin and tangeretin. Basically ground-up citrus peels. It should be good for you -- the peels contain most of the micronutrients.
Yes--interesting, isn't it? I have a brother who has always eaten oranges like an apple; just bites into them, peel and all. He's never been overweight. I always teased him, but i should have been copying him.
I would worry about all the preservatives on the peel - hopefully he washed it well! I think "one" does it kumquats like that, peel and all, so maybe that's the route to getting those nutrients?0 -
GrannyMayOz wrote: »Their rationale was sound, the uptake of ketones by the brain has been measured and it rises steeply with concentration up to a peak. If blood ketones are 0.2 the brain is using a lot more glucose than at 1.2, for example.
Where is the glucose coming from though if I've been below 50 grams of carbs every day (except one) since 23rd January this year? I was below 15 grams for most of it, but increased to an average of maybe 25 grams the past few weeks. The answer's probably obvious, but not to me right now. Or is my body making glucose from my fat cells or something?
Your body is going to convert to get whatever it needs, so it's converting stores to glucose...or something. It is the master at stealing things from elsewhere to convert them to what it needs...0 -
58% of protein can be converted to glucose I have read and some say 10% of fat can be converted to glucose but I am not clear on the fat to glucose part.0
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Here's a good explanation about glucose conversion that I bookmarked so I could read it whenever I forget, which is often: http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/gluconeogenesis.html0
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the uptake of ketones by the brain has been measured and it rises steeply with concentration up to a peak.
This is partially true. The uptake rises linearly with blood levels. But the utilization does not.
The classic paper that examined this was written in 1967:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292907/
They looked at the A-V differences in substrates. A lot of substrate (glucose and ketones) enters across the BBB, but a lot leaves too. They measured the difference, which tells you how much the brain metabolized: about 0.34 mM of BHB and 0.06 mM of AcAc (along with 0.26 mM of glucose).
The leftover continues to circulate in your blood.
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I appreciate this thread. I have had trouble sleeping since I cut out sugar and carbs, so maybe I'm dealing with a corisol issue. I had forgotten all about Valerian. I took some last night and finally got a decent night of sleep and I was also down a pound today. Maybe the sleep helped with the loss? Anyway, I feel pretty good today.0
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Thank you @Ellen and @wabmester those are really helpful and interesting. Some of the oldies are still goodies that's for sure - 1967. I don't suppose we'll ever know all of the interactions happening in our bodies or all of the reasons for them.
@dashriver I'm really glad this thread has helped you, and that you slept well last night. The weight loss is always a great bonus too!0 -
I appreciate this thread. I have had trouble sleeping since I cut out sugar and carbs, so maybe I'm dealing with a corisol issue. I had forgotten all about Valerian. I took some last night and finally got a decent night of sleep and I was also down a pound today. Maybe the sleep helped with the loss? Anyway, I feel pretty good today.
I think sleep does help with losing weight - I remember reading that you burn tonnes more fat when asleep than when working out. Suits me! I'm sure that's why I'm heavier since having kids - I used to sleep loads in my 20s, often going to bed for a nap at weekend afternoons. Now I'm in my 40s, I'm lucky if I get 6 hours!
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I've definitely proven the sleep connection myself many times. Given less than 7 hours sleep my weight stabilises or gains. Then a nice lie in will produce a loss almost every time (all else being equal).0
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GrannyMayOz wrote: »I've definitely proven the sleep connection myself many times. Given less than 7 hours sleep my weight stabilises or gains. Then a nice lie in will produce a loss almost every time (all else being equal).
Here's to nice lie-ins!
Any preliminary results from the sytrinol, @wheatlessgirl66 ?0
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