When do you start feeling great on Keto?
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You need to eat more until you don't want to eat more. Whatever you're feeling is exacerbated by not eating enough. Eating very low calorie should be effortless; not a struggle. Instead of waiting a few days to reevaluate I think you should eat until you're full for a day or two to see how you feel.
Best wishes -- I hope you feel better soon. :flowerforyou:0 -
Also, is there a preferred variant of magnesium and potassium supplements? Im taking magnesium oxide and potassium chloride. Are these the best forms?
Im looking at potassium citrate, potassium chloride and potassium gluconate. The gluconate comes in 550mg, would that be stronger than 200mg potassium citrate/chloride?
Ive found a potassium chloride powder that gives you 365mg per 1/8th tsp, so that seems like it would be easier to get a nice high dose rather than a gazillion pills.
Do i need to spread my magnesium and potassium supps out through the day to reach a higher dose? How big a dose can i take in one go?0 -
Everyone is different. Try removing dairy for a while. Up the veggies and fat. It took me a few months to get in the groove. Don't be afraid of fat. It was hard for me to change my mind to accept fat. Now I battle to lower my protein intake but carbs are a very easy. Best of luck!0
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Also, electrolytes are about balance. Adding a ton of one without balance it out will make all the others worse. You need to get them together. And with water, because dehydration is what dumps the sodium, which in turn dumps the potassium and magnesium. Then you drink more water, and you're low on everything again. Also when you first take magnesium, it can dump potassium. So again. Balance.0
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Also, is there a preferred variant of magnesium and potassium supplements? Im taking magnesium oxide and potassium chloride. Are these the best forms?
Magnesium oxide is horrible Magnesium citrate is the preferred form. Don't know about Potassium.0 -
Phinney and Volek recommend supplementing with Slow-Mag -- 20 days 3X/day. They also recommend an EXTRA 1-2g of sodium per day. Potassium you can get from your food. Avocados and chocolate are my sources. Meat is good too, but you lose some from cooking.0
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I think people are not suggesting you raise calories with the intention of still losing weight. Obviously you are not losing weight now on 1200, if your maintenance is really 1500 then why not give up a week of weight loss (that is not happening anyway) and eat 1500 so you feel better. then you can go back to trying to lose.
The way it looks, you still wont lose weight but you will feel human - that is worth trying. And bodies are really really funny - you may find that increasing your calories is EXACTLY what your body wanted in order to let go of some weight. A lot of people who have been low cal for a very long time are pleasantly surprised that their body responds positively to getting enough food to feul your life. Look at the Eat More To Weigh Less group.
Think of it this way... right now you have no energy... your calories out are lower than normal since you are not doing anything - your TDEE may have been 1500 before, but I guarantee it is not now! If you eat more, you will have more energy and you will do more so your calories out will be higher than now. Which means you really kept a deficit.
You can burn 1700 calories a day and eat 1200 calories a day to lose 0.5 pounds a week, or you can burn 2000 calories a day and eat 1500 calories a day to lose 0.5 pounds a week. Remember - you can control BOTH the calories in and calories out. More calories in=more energy=more calories out. So give your body another 100-200 and use the increased energy to get back to your normal burn. Calories out is volatile - dont get stuck on a TDEE number that was calculated when you were behaving differently than you are now. Eat more, move more, lose more
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.
This is really holding true for me. I would strongly consider what she's saying. It outlines what I had mentioned in my own experience. I am still new to this WOE, but @KnitOrMiss has been doing this for much longer so what she says has merit to me. (And thanks for saying this too, because I was wondering why I was eating A LOT and it's probably to compensate for starving myself on 1400 cals per day for 3 weeks.)
I really hope you find your way, Coco. I love the advice and suggestions given by everyone in here! And I appreciate you asking your questions because many of them I had myself, so you posted for me 0 -
Another thing to remember, too with eating this way is at times you will lose inches and not weight. Other times you will lose weight but not inches. It is not logical or linear. You need to trust the process. A quote I heard that stuck with me is, "You're doing basic arithmetic while your body is doing calculus." That means you counting calories, tracking macros, and working out is the basics of arithmetic...your body is doing totally complex calculus to help... The two things sometimes match up and sometimes they don't. Again, we're back to balance and patience. Also, looking at the big picture helps. If I try to tweak too many things on a daily level, I never get anywhere because my body is constantly adapting to the new changes.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Also, electrolytes are about balance. Adding a ton of one without balance it out will make all the others worse. You need to get them together. And with water, because dehydration is what dumps the sodium, which in turn dumps the potassium and magnesium. Then you drink more water, and you're low on everything again. Also when you first take magnesium, it can dump potassium. So again. Balance.
This makes sense, of course, but what IS the correct balance? I get that i need to be shooting for 3-4g potassium, but how much magnesium?
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Think of it this way... right now you have no energy... your calories out are lower than normal since you are not doing anything - your TDEE may have been 1500 before, but I guarantee it is not now! If you eat more, you will have more energy and you will do more so your calories out will be higher than now. Which means you really kept a deficit.
Very, very true! Im moving at a snail's pace atm with this lethargy, and whilst i wasnt exactly super active before i definitely moved my butt more than i am now. Something to think about, for sure.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Also, electrolytes are about balance. Adding a ton of one without balance it out will make all the others worse. You need to get them together. And with water, because dehydration is what dumps the sodium, which in turn dumps the potassium and magnesium. Then you drink more water, and you're low on everything again. Also when you first take magnesium, it can dump potassium. So again. Balance.
This makes sense, of course, but what IS the correct balance? I get that i need to be shooting for 3-4g potassium, but how much magnesium?
No one can tell you exactly what you need or lack without bloodwork. The rest is just playing with and tweaking to find the range where you feel better.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.
This is really holding true for me. I would strongly consider what she's saying. It outlines what I had mentioned in my own experience. I am still new to this WOE, but @KnitOrMiss has been doing this for much longer so what she says has merit to me. (And thanks for saying this too, because I was wondering why I was eating A LOT and it's probably to compensate for starving myself on 1400 cals per day for 3 weeks.)
I really hope you find your way, Coco. I love the advice and suggestions given by everyone in here! And I appreciate you asking your questions because many of them I had myself, so you posted for me
Thanks TiaBia sweetie. I actually managed to miss this one of KnitOrMiss's posts, and you're right it's solid advice.
I'm not known for my patience but if i have a goal and an idea of what i have to do to get there and how long it will take, i can get my head down and put up n shutup (to a degree lol). That's why i asked "when do you start feeling great on keto" - i really wanted a generalized timeframe of how long it took the body to adapt to keto and start feeling well. I was of the understanding that everyone else was feeling great after just a few days so its a huge relief to know that it can take 6 weeks for it to work. That has really put my mind at rest and given me a lot of hope that things will get better if i just stick with it.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.
This is really holding true for me. I would strongly consider what she's saying. It outlines what I had mentioned in my own experience. I am still new to this WOE, but @KnitOrMiss has been doing this for much longer so what she says has merit to me. (And thanks for saying this too, because I was wondering why I was eating A LOT and it's probably to compensate for starving myself on 1400 cals per day for 3 weeks.)
I really hope you find your way, Coco. I love the advice and suggestions given by everyone in here! And I appreciate you asking your questions because many of them I had myself, so you posted for me
Thanks TiaBia sweetie. I actually managed to miss this one of KnitOrMiss's posts, and you're right it's solid advice.
I'm not known for my patience but if i have a goal and an idea of what i have to do to get there and how long it will take, i can get my head down and put up n shutup (to a degree lol). That's why i asked "when do you start feeling great on keto" - i really wanted a generalized timeframe of how long it took the body to adapt to keto and start feeling well. I was of the understanding that everyone else was feeling great after just a few days so its a huge relief to know that it can take 6 weeks for it to work. That has really put my mind at rest and given me a lot of hope that things will get better if i just stick with it.
I personally think that your body has a lot to do with how quickly you adapt. For example, I am insulin resistant, among other things, so my body was breathing a sigh of release and dancing a jig when I finally went low carb.
To adapt, both when I went LCHF initially (1/15) and Keto (2/18), I stopped counting calories at all while adapting. I stuffed myself full of fats, sodium, and the rest. My adaption was easier going low carb even though I'd been eating a crap-ton of carbs/sugary junk immediately before. I believe I dropped from 300+ carbs daily to 50 total/35 net at first. I wasn't as mindful when I stepped down to Keto, and so I had more of an adjustment period. (only went down to 20 net/25-30 total), but it took me what I thought was a sinus infection but turned out to be keto flu to realize I wasn't watching my fats and electrolytes.
That being said, in my experience, you are more likely to lose inches than pounds at first since you were already low carb. Getting out of the flu zone can be instant for some people - and can take upwards of 6 weeks for others. It really depends on how broken your metabolism was before you started... Since I don't think I've seen you mention any major health issues before, your body may not switch over as easily. Most of us our body is doing the happy dance because it KNOWS it doesn't work well on the alternate energy sources.
Does that make sense?0 -
That does make sense KnitOrMiss, thanks sugar... and guess what? After reading this i grabbed my tape-measure and....... i HAVE lost 1/2 inch off my waist and 1/2 inch off my hips in the past few days. I think i measured last around 4-5 days ago, so WOOPIEDOOO, maybe keto IS working for me! I can handle feeling pants a wee bit longer if necessary if my measurements are going down! I feel so relieved! *hugs*0
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »That does make sense KnitOrMiss, thanks sugar... and guess what? After reading this i grabbed my tape-measure and....... i HAVE lost 1/2 inch off my waist and 1/2 inch off my hips in the past few days. I think i measured last around 4-5 days ago, so WOOPIEDOOO, maybe keto IS working for me! I can handle feeling pants a wee bit longer if necessary if my measurements are going down! I feel so relieved! *hugs*
Three cheers for sanity! It's overrated, but sometimes we need it.0 -
Since magnesium has a mild sedative effect; if you are taking your dose during the day, it might explain part of your reduced functionality.
According to Lyle McDonald:
As I detailed in my first book The Ketogenic Diet, very low-carb dieters need to supplement their daily electrolyte intake with the following at a bare minimum:
◾3-5 grams extra sodium hydrochloride
◾1 gram potassium
◾300 mg magnesium
Notice he says 'bare minimum'
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thank Mlinton, its nice to know its not just me that feel so grotty. I meant to reply to one of your posts where you said youd been in a bad mood and shouted at your kids more than youd like. Well, ive been exactly the same. Frankly, im in a stinking mood and slightly bad behaviour from my 3 year old is seeing me go off the deep end and really scold him more than i normally would. Frankly i feel like braining someone - or banging my head against something hard, repeatedly. Im so angry that i should feel like death and still not be losing ANY weight. Arrgghhhhh!
Id be nervous about increasing my daily cals as im not losing as it is, especially with my calorie deficit being so small (im really short so it doesnt give me many cals to play with. I cant quite understand why i feel practically malnourished and so ravenously hungry on only a 360 calorie deficit. So much for fats being satiating. Give me a nice crunchy apple or a carrot and im satisfied. Give me a 200 calorie shot of pure fat and i feel like ive had nothing to eat. Why oh why is this not working for me?
I'll stick with it for 2 more weeks, in the hope that im feeling like this because im not yet fat adapted (apparently that takes 3 weeks?), but i cant allow myself to feel like this much longer with no positive results. I trully hope a miracle happens soon and the scale starts going down and my energy levels up like theyre SUPPOSED to do! (*cries*).
I'm only 5'0" and have my calorie goal set at 1200 and have been wondering if I need it even lower than that. Amazingly, though, I've noticed I lost the most weight on days where I ate 1500 to 1600. It shouldn't hurt to test a little time with higher calories and see if that helps any.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.
I stand corrected and learned a valuable lesson in the process. Thank you.
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Since magnesium has a mild sedative effect; if you are taking your dose during the day, it might explain part of your reduced functionality.
According to Lyle McDonald:
As I detailed in my first book The Ketogenic Diet, very low-carb dieters need to supplement their daily electrolyte intake with the following at a bare minimum:
◾3-5 grams extra sodium hydrochloride
◾1 gram potassium
◾300 mg magnesium
Notice he says 'bare minimum'
Thankyou!
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »That does make sense KnitOrMiss, thanks sugar... and guess what? After reading this i grabbed my tape-measure and....... i HAVE lost 1/2 inch off my waist and 1/2 inch off my hips in the past few days. I think i measured last around 4-5 days ago, so WOOPIEDOOO, maybe keto IS working for me! I can handle feeling pants a wee bit longer if necessary if my measurements are going down! I feel so relieved! *hugs*
Three cheers for sanity! It's overrated, but sometimes we need it.
Haha, well that is one thing i seem to be lacking
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thank Mlinton, its nice to know its not just me that feel so grotty. I meant to reply to one of your posts where you said youd been in a bad mood and shouted at your kids more than youd like. Well, ive been exactly the same. Frankly, im in a stinking mood and slightly bad behaviour from my 3 year old is seeing me go off the deep end and really scold him more than i normally would. Frankly i feel like braining someone - or banging my head against something hard, repeatedly. Im so angry that i should feel like death and still not be losing ANY weight. Arrgghhhhh!
Id be nervous about increasing my daily cals as im not losing as it is, especially with my calorie deficit being so small (im really short so it doesnt give me many cals to play with. I cant quite understand why i feel practically malnourished and so ravenously hungry on only a 360 calorie deficit. So much for fats being satiating. Give me a nice crunchy apple or a carrot and im satisfied. Give me a 200 calorie shot of pure fat and i feel like ive had nothing to eat. Why oh why is this not working for me?
I'll stick with it for 2 more weeks, in the hope that im feeling like this because im not yet fat adapted (apparently that takes 3 weeks?), but i cant allow myself to feel like this much longer with no positive results. I trully hope a miracle happens soon and the scale starts going down and my energy levels up like theyre SUPPOSED to do! (*cries*).
I'm only 5'0" and have my calorie goal set at 1200 and have been wondering if I need it even lower than that. Amazingly, though, I've noticed I lost the most weight on days where I ate 1500 to 1600. It shouldn't hurt to test a little time with higher calories and see if that helps any.
I've eaten right up to my 1200 calorie limit tonight with loads of fats and taken some extra potassium and i do feel much better. Lets hope i feel spritely tomorrow.
But that is interesting that eating more calories saw you losing more weight. I'll stick with 1200 max at the moment, to give ketosis a really good chance of kicking in and doing its thing, but if my weight remains stalled after a good while (which i trully hope it doesnt of course!) then i'll definitely try upping my calories for a wee while, thankyou. I really hope that wont be necessary though and now i see that ive lost by the tape measure i have more faith that keto might be working for me, just slower than expected. Im definitely sticking with it until i know for sure.
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Glad you are feeling better. 0
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Thanks JustMe 0
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Well another horrible day to report, unfortunately. I woke up ravenous and super weak so i decided to go by a few suggestions and up my calories just for today. I was going to eat to maintenance and then i felt so awful that i would eat to satiation and see where i go. DISASTER. I dont care what anyone says fat is NOT satiating for me. By the time i feel full and satisfied i have clocked a RIDICULOUS amount of calories up (almost 2000 instead of 1200 FFS!) and do you know what? Even now, finally podged to the brim at 6pm (after a grotesquely cheesy pizza with cheese & egg crust AND a snickerdoodle mugcake with cream) im just feeling sick from all the disgusting fat but STILL have NO bloody energy whatsoever. My body aches so bad it feels like i have lead in my limbs. Just raising my arm to brush my hair made me ache. Im feeling dizzy. Going hot and cold. And no, im not sick from a bug, im sick from this horrific woe.
Im sorry if i offend anyone but i just cannot see how this diet can be healthy. Im so disillusioned as i really bought into this super low carb ketosis business, and hoped it would be the answer to my prayers. Turning your body into a fat burning machine and losing a pound a day? Yes please! But as far as i can see if i stuck to this diet for any length of time id put weight on not lose it - sand rapidly i imagine if today is anything to go by.
I cant get my head round how people are feeling full on small portions of calorie dense fat, with no veggies for bulk, AND limiting protein, which i find wayyy more satiating than fat.
Trully im so disappointed but if i continue like this i feel like i will make myself ill. Frankly, knowing how dreadful i feel, im extremely surprised there are not more negative reviews on ketosis/fat fasts.
30g to 50g carbs a day with plenty of veggies and based around protein on a primal diet made me feel great. Moving down to less than 20g carbs a day (its been between 10g and 15g last few days) has meant that my food choices are seriously limited, mainly to cheese, cream, butter, nuts, pork scratchings (eggs are ok, i like eggs, but not every bloody day), that kind of thing, because i generally havent got the energy to cook much (and i was cooking several times a day before going on ketosis - happily singing away to myself and pottering all day). Ive really overdone the fats today but i wanted to know what it would take to get this magical energy & satiation from fat and the answer is that i feel sick and double my calories well before that ever happens.
Surely im not the only one struggling with super low carbs and high fat? Or am i an alien who responds differently to everyone else?
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »30g to 50g carbs a day with plenty of veggies and based around protein on a primal diet made me feel great.
You found your sweet spot -- stick with it. Get back into the zone, and then measure your ketone levels (after about a week of eating that way). You may be surprised to learn that you are a fat-burning machine and feeling good again.
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You know what, from tomorrow, that's exactly what im going to do. Let's just hope ive not caused damage (ie weight gain) from over-eating by almost 1000 calories today. That would really be the last nail in the coffin. Im very disappointed that super low carbs/keto didnt work for me, but hell, i dont feel like a failure because i stuck to the damn diet and my body decided it was not having any of it. I really am confused as to why keto makes me so sick though.
Wabmeser, you dont eat super low carb, do you? What's the reason for that? Is it because you didnt get along well on very low carb or is it because you dont need to lower your carbs so dramatically to still lose weight?
Would 30g to 50g carbs for a 5ft1" 132 pound woman still be considered low carb? Im guessing it wouldnt be keto though, no?0 -
I believe listening to your body is an amazingly helpful skill to have. 30 to 50 carbs on a primal diet feels good? Great! Stick with that I know you're looking for someone to tell you a way to make it work or to validate that this is the right way, but that's basically what this entire thread has been about.
You don't know if it's a 'disaster.' You're still counting calories and not taking advice of just forgetting about them, and it's making you freak out. You are not trusting the process and trying to do things within your own limits. If you're not ready to do this, then you're not ready. If it's not for you, it's not for you. There's no shame in that. I lost 1.5lbs this week after doing lchf for two weeks. It could be water weight, and yeah the amount of calories is alarming but I'm trusting that my body knows what it's doing.
Many people follow lchf and stick to it because they gave it time and it has helped them feel better in the long run. Not because they are relying on anecdotes of others who felt better right away and dropped 10lbs in a month. Sure that is a great hook, but it's the results over time that make it last. I believe @wabmester even told you low carb is not for everyone. But you're also not listening to the advice of others telling you to give it time. Trust me there are plenty of reviews saying the low carb eating style is garbage, take a look at what the main forums have to say or do a google search.
If you can't let go and give this a real shot with patience and focusing on how food makes you feel as opposed to how many units of energy you need to consume daily to lose weight, then this probably won't work the way you expect it to.0 -
My main goal is sustainability, so I eat what I like, but I exclude grains and sugary crap. I started out at around 100g, but that tends to drop as I lose interest in carbs. I haven't tracked for a while, so I go in and out of ketosis depending on diet and exercise. As long as my hunger and cravings are under control, and my weight is stable, I'm a happy camper.
Your body makes ketones as an alternative to glucose primarily to fuel your brain. Your brain consumes around 120g of glucose per day, so if you consume less than 120g of carbs, you MUST make ketones to make up the deficit (you make some glucose from protein too, but mostly ketones from fat).
So, yeah, 30-50g of carbs is HIGHLY ketogenic. Adding fat gives your liver more stuff to make ketones from, but you don't need that many ketones. You'll get all you need from your body fat.0 -
Thankyou both. That's it then. I'll stick with it, but at at the 30g-50g level as i know i felt great like that. Maybe i was choosing the wrong foods for me, or something. Man im sick of cheese, cream & butter already! It will be so nice to go back to fresh healthy vegetables and a nice portion of meat, with a dribble of coconut milk as my little creamy addition. Doesnt it just sound healthier already?! Does to me.0
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