When do you start feeling great on Keto?
Options
Replies
-
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks all. I'll hit the bacon at lunch. Like i need an excuse?! Im on BPC with half a scoop protein powder for breakfast b/c im useless in a morning and need something quick, easy, ketogenic, tasty & filling. It seems to tick all the boxes at the moment - hope its not too unhealthy.
Other than your carb level, have your eating habits changed since you were paleo? That doesn't sound like a very paleo-style breakfast to me.
Try eating real foods, and try eating more carbs if the lower level doesn't work for you.
There are physiological difference between 15g and 50g carbs. Not so much in terms of ketosis, but more in terms of protein catabolism and perhaps cortisol levels.0 -
I agree with both of you that it appears my body is crying out for more carbs, more calories or both, hence it would make sense for me to raise them a little, especially as i too felt fabulous on 30g-70g (averaging 50g) carbs.
BUT i want to make sure ive really given my body ample time to try adjusting to keto before i essentially
give in. I would feel a failure if i upped my carbs at this early stage.
Im reluctant to up my calories too, because, as mentioned, im only on a 360 calorie deficit as it as, eating 1200 cals a day, which should apparently only give me a 0.7 pound per week loss, so id be basically eating at maintenance cals if increased, which wouldnt lose me anything, so id be doing keto and sending myself crazy for no benefit.
I guess all i can do is stick with it for a minimum total of 1 month to give my body plenty of time to get keto-adapted, which will hopefully cause all these nasty side effects to cease. If i still feel awful after that time period then definitely i will just have to accept that keto is not for me i suppose.
What is spurring me on to continue putting myself through feeling like this is the realisation that we are all human - im not a different species or special in any way - so surely the positive effects everyone else gets on keto HAVE to come to me too, surely? We're all basically the same machine, so isnt it safe to presume that we will all react the same to keto eventually?
0 -
I very much relate to what you're going through right now, but I think you may be suffering from what all of us humans tend to do to ourselves sometimes: the Sunk Cost Fallacy. You've invested time, effort and suffering into going Keto. As of today, it has been a week of effort. This is on top of the effort you've invested in going low carb and losing weight already. You're finding yourself up against a wall, and rather than backing up and re-evaluating, you have a strong psychological incentive to stay the course; to keep banging your head against that wall. We ALL do this from time to time, and I admire your tenacity. It's great in many contexts. I've beat my head against a wall like that more times than I can count.
But sometimes it is time to back up and re-evaluate, even if it means taking a few (minor, I hope) short term losses.
There's a range of carbs that would still keep you in ketosis (or on the way there, right, since you may not have fully adapted yet.) A lot of folks on this thread are suggesting 30g per day. Maybe instead of averaging 30-70g (50g average), you can focus on nailing 30g per day. Which would probably buy you a green salad at the least, and perhaps along with it some relief. Or you can give yourself a more generous calorie allowance for a few days. Or both.
I hope this comes across as a gentle suggestion. My husband and I have been married for ten years, and we're still trying to figure out the right way to tell each other when we're beating our heads against a wall.0 -
I'd hate to say this, but keto and low carb aren't for everybody. Your expectations are coming from people who have lost a lot of weight on keto. Many of those people started out obese. From your stats, I take it that you're not obese.
Ketones suppress hunger. Not everybody has a hunger problem. And for those who do, the carb levels you were eating on paleo are usually low enough to get that benefit.
There is no magic fat-burning bullet with keto. It simply reduces insulin and grehlin, which are both VERY useful benefits for a large number of people, but not for everybody.0 -
I've read numerous sources that suggest that you throw calorie counting out the window and eat to satiety when you are first getting into ketosis. Giving your body all the extra things it needs to make the transition is just easier on your system and your sanity. Really, in the grand scheme of things, is a week of eating to fullness going to derail you all that much? No. And you'll likely hit the transition point much faster.
Also, what sort of potassium supplements are we talking here? The pills are rubbish, they give you something like 100mg and you need to be hitting at least 2,800mg a day, and then maybe 1000mg on top of that because of the flushing that can happen with ketosis. Your symptoms are just screaming low potassium. It took me about a week of scary racing heart episodes and burning muscles and achiness and generally feeling awful before I managed to get my potassium up enough to make a difference. You've got a one up on me because I was also trying to catch up on magnesium as well, since you need the magnesium to make use of the potassium. Big bowls of ground beef based recipes helped me, as well as high potassium vegetables, all doused in low-salt for added potassium. I ate to fullness, which sometimes meant a half pound of ground beef, sometimes more, sometimes much less, depending on hunger. When I was eating like this, what do you know, I absolutely never went over my calculated TDEE. Sometimes the body knows best.
The first time I tried to do low carb about 15 years ago I was an absolute wreck and I felt awful all the time, and I stuck at it for two months, dragging myself around and feeling terrible, gaining several pounds and just crying all the time because I had no idea what to do with myself before I finally abandoned it. Now that I've been through it successfully, I know that feeling is DEFINITELY related to electrolytes. I know it's time to look at mine whenever I get any little symptoms resembling it, and what do you know, I'm usually way under on my salt for that day, or short on potassium or I've forgotten a magnesium pill or two (which makes me less able to absorb potassium, so really, it's all about the K).
I really want to see you succeed, because you are definitely working hard for it.
0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks all. I'll hit the bacon at lunch. Like i need an excuse?! Im on BPC with half a scoop protein powder for breakfast b/c im useless in a morning and need something quick, easy, ketogenic, tasty & filling. It seems to tick all the boxes at the moment - hope its not too unhealthy.
Other than your carb level, have your eating habits changed since you were paleo? That doesn't sound like a very paleo-style breakfast to me. Try eating real foods, and try eating more carbs if the lower level doesn't work for you.
There are physiological difference between 15g and 50g carbs. Not so much in terms of ketosis, but more in terms of protein catabolism and perhaps cortisol levels.
Yup, my eating habits have changed a lot since going keto. I used to eat lots of veg and a little fruit and i now eat practically no veg and no fruit. I didnt drink BPC before going keto, but since dropping my carbs really low i just havent had the energy to cook or prepare food for breakfast - i feel so tired and hungry i need some immediate and easy calories to get me started and BPC seemed to fit the bill, but you're right, its really not filling me so i should be eating real food instead.
I know this sounds lame but since going keto i cant seem to think straight, so whereas before i could easily think up interesting meals to fit my macros now im in a mental fog and cant find any inspiration for a keto meal.
This woe is so alien to me. Ive always been low to medium fat at the most and more carbs so the ingredients i would have used before are out and ingredients i avoided are in. Its a whole new learning curve and my brain isnt functioning at high enough capacity to be inspired. Dinners are easier, as i tend to do meat or fish and a creamy or cheesy sauce, but ive got a mindblock with breakfasts and lunches.
0 -
mlinton_mesapark wrote: »I very much relate to what you're going through right now, but I think you may be suffering from what all of us humans tend to do to ourselves sometimes: the Sunk Cost Fallacy. You've invested time, effort and suffering into going Keto. As of today, it has been a week of effort. This is on top of the effort you've invested in going low carb and losing weight already. You're finding yourself up against a wall, and rather than backing up and re-evaluating, you have a strong psychological incentive to stay the course; to keep banging your head against that wall. We ALL do this from time to time, and I admire your tenacity. It's great in many contexts. I've beat my head against a wall like that more times than I can count.
But sometimes it is time to back up and re-evaluate, even if it means taking a few (minor, I hope) short term losses.
There's a range of carbs that would still keep you in ketosis (or on the way there, right, since you may not have fully adapted yet.) A lot of folks on this thread are suggesting 30g per day. Maybe instead of averaging 30-70g (50g average), you can focus on nailing 30g per day. Which would probably buy you a green salad at the least, and perhaps along with it some relief. Or you can give yourself a more generous calorie allowance for a few days. Or both.
I hope this comes across as a gentle suggestion. My husband and I have been married for ten years, and we're still trying to figure out the right way to tell each other when we're beating our heads against a wall.
A gentle suggestion that was well received, for sure. I really do appreciate the kind advice and guidance (from everyone here - thankyou all), particularly at a time where i cant seem to be able to see the wood for the trees.
If i dont start to feel better in the next few days (there goes my reluctance to 'give in' again) i will definitely raise my carbs a little, but keep my calories to 1200 or below, as i do believe that the basis of weightloss is a simple energy in vs energy out concept. I like your idea of hitting for 30g carbs a day. That does seem like a reasonable figure and i know i didnt feel bad at those levels of carbs (although i wasnt losing weight either). That will be my plan then.... sit it out a little longer just to be 100% sure that ive done everything i possibly can to succeed on a keto diet, and if i still feel awful then raise my carbs to 30g/day.
Thanks again Mlinton, i feel better knowing i have a definite plan!
0 -
I hear you on the alien diet, but it doesn't have to be. I never did BPC or fat bombs. My carbs come mostly from veggies, nuts, and chocolate. For protein and fat, you can do a lot with eggs, meat, and cheese. I'm basically paleo without the starch.
(Caveat: my floating carb level gives me the flexibility to eat fruit, sushi, and pho when I get the urge, so I don't do hard-core keto.)0 -
First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.0 -
AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »I've read numerous sources that suggest that you throw calorie counting out the window and eat to satiety when you are first getting into ketosis. Giving your body all the extra things it needs to make the transition is just easier on your system and your sanity. Really, in the grand scheme of things, is a week of eating to fullness going to derail you all that much? No. And you'll likely hit the transition point much faster.
Also, what sort of potassium supplements are we talking here? The pills are rubbish, they give you something like 100mg and you need to be hitting at least 2,800mg a day, and then maybe 1000mg on top of that because of the flushing that can happen with ketosis. Your symptoms are just screaming low potassium. It took me about a week of scary racing heart episodes and burning muscles and achiness and generally feeling awful before I managed to get my potassium up enough to make a difference. You've got a one up on me because I was also trying to catch up on magnesium as well, since you need the magnesium to make use of the potassium. Big bowls of ground beef based recipes helped me, as well as high potassium vegetables, all doused in low-salt for added potassium. I ate to fullness, which sometimes meant a half pound of ground beef, sometimes more, sometimes much less, depending on hunger. When I was eating like this, what do you know, I absolutely never went over my calculated TDEE. Sometimes the body knows best.
The first time I tried to do low carb about 15 years ago I was an absolute wreck and I felt awful all the time, and I stuck at it for two months, dragging myself around and feeling terrible, gaining several pounds and just crying all the time because I had no idea what to do with myself before I finally abandoned it. Now that I've been through it successfully, I know that feeling is DEFINITELY related to electrolytes. I know it's time to look at mine whenever I get any little symptoms resembling it, and what do you know, I'm usually way under on my salt for that day, or short on potassium or I've forgotten a magnesium pill or two (which makes me less able to absorb potassium, so really, it's all about the K).
I really want to see you succeed, because you are definitely working hard for it.
You know what, you guys really are lovely!. Thanks for taking the time to write - its so comforting to feel support from those who have already been there n done that.
I know ive been adamant that my symptoms cant possibly be an electrolyte imbalance, but i had no idea how much potassium you actually needed, i just presumed that because i was taking supplements i could possibly be deficient, but woah - 2,800mg-3,800mg is wayyyyy more potassium than im getting for sure! My potassium supplement only contains 200mg and ive been taking 4 a day, so thats a grand total of 800mg potassium. WTF?! Why make supplements that are so darn weak? Im going to see if i can find a much stronger one right now.
Whilst im at it, what are the optimum levels of sodium and magnesium intake on keto? My magnesium tablets are 400mg each and i take two a day. Am i acquiring sufficient magnesium do you think?
0 -
You need to eat more until you don't want to eat more. Whatever you're feeling is exacerbated by not eating enough. Eating very low calorie should be effortless; not a struggle. Instead of waiting a few days to reevaluate I think you should eat until you're full for a day or two to see how you feel.
Best wishes -- I hope you feel better soon. :flowerforyou:0 -
Also, is there a preferred variant of magnesium and potassium supplements? Im taking magnesium oxide and potassium chloride. Are these the best forms?
Im looking at potassium citrate, potassium chloride and potassium gluconate. The gluconate comes in 550mg, would that be stronger than 200mg potassium citrate/chloride?
Ive found a potassium chloride powder that gives you 365mg per 1/8th tsp, so that seems like it would be easier to get a nice high dose rather than a gazillion pills.
Do i need to spread my magnesium and potassium supps out through the day to reach a higher dose? How big a dose can i take in one go?0 -
Everyone is different. Try removing dairy for a while. Up the veggies and fat. It took me a few months to get in the groove. Don't be afraid of fat. It was hard for me to change my mind to accept fat. Now I battle to lower my protein intake but carbs are a very easy. Best of luck!0
-
Also, electrolytes are about balance. Adding a ton of one without balance it out will make all the others worse. You need to get them together. And with water, because dehydration is what dumps the sodium, which in turn dumps the potassium and magnesium. Then you drink more water, and you're low on everything again. Also when you first take magnesium, it can dump potassium. So again. Balance.0
-
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Also, is there a preferred variant of magnesium and potassium supplements? Im taking magnesium oxide and potassium chloride. Are these the best forms?
Magnesium oxide is horrible Magnesium citrate is the preferred form. Don't know about Potassium.0 -
Phinney and Volek recommend supplementing with Slow-Mag -- 20 days 3X/day. They also recommend an EXTRA 1-2g of sodium per day. Potassium you can get from your food. Avocados and chocolate are my sources. Meat is good too, but you lose some from cooking.0
-
I think people are not suggesting you raise calories with the intention of still losing weight. Obviously you are not losing weight now on 1200, if your maintenance is really 1500 then why not give up a week of weight loss (that is not happening anyway) and eat 1500 so you feel better. then you can go back to trying to lose.
The way it looks, you still wont lose weight but you will feel human - that is worth trying. And bodies are really really funny - you may find that increasing your calories is EXACTLY what your body wanted in order to let go of some weight. A lot of people who have been low cal for a very long time are pleasantly surprised that their body responds positively to getting enough food to feul your life. Look at the Eat More To Weigh Less group.
Think of it this way... right now you have no energy... your calories out are lower than normal since you are not doing anything - your TDEE may have been 1500 before, but I guarantee it is not now! If you eat more, you will have more energy and you will do more so your calories out will be higher than now. Which means you really kept a deficit.
You can burn 1700 calories a day and eat 1200 calories a day to lose 0.5 pounds a week, or you can burn 2000 calories a day and eat 1500 calories a day to lose 0.5 pounds a week. Remember - you can control BOTH the calories in and calories out. More calories in=more energy=more calories out. So give your body another 100-200 and use the increased energy to get back to your normal burn. Calories out is volatile - dont get stuck on a TDEE number that was calculated when you were behaving differently than you are now. Eat more, move more, lose more 0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.
This is really holding true for me. I would strongly consider what she's saying. It outlines what I had mentioned in my own experience. I am still new to this WOE, but @KnitOrMiss has been doing this for much longer so what she says has merit to me. (And thanks for saying this too, because I was wondering why I was eating A LOT and it's probably to compensate for starving myself on 1400 cals per day for 3 weeks.)
I really hope you find your way, Coco. I love the advice and suggestions given by everyone in here! And I appreciate you asking your questions because many of them I had myself, so you posted for me 0 -
Another thing to remember, too with eating this way is at times you will lose inches and not weight. Other times you will lose weight but not inches. It is not logical or linear. You need to trust the process. A quote I heard that stuck with me is, "You're doing basic arithmetic while your body is doing calculus." That means you counting calories, tracking macros, and working out is the basics of arithmetic...your body is doing totally complex calculus to help... The two things sometimes match up and sometimes they don't. Again, we're back to balance and patience. Also, looking at the big picture helps. If I try to tweak too many things on a daily level, I never get anywhere because my body is constantly adapting to the new changes.0
-
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Also, electrolytes are about balance. Adding a ton of one without balance it out will make all the others worse. You need to get them together. And with water, because dehydration is what dumps the sodium, which in turn dumps the potassium and magnesium. Then you drink more water, and you're low on everything again. Also when you first take magnesium, it can dump potassium. So again. Balance.
This makes sense, of course, but what IS the correct balance? I get that i need to be shooting for 3-4g potassium, but how much magnesium?
0
