When do you start feeling great on Keto?
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Hormonal issues are a possibility, although ive had all the basic blood tests at the docs, several times over, and everything has always come back negative, other than being borderline hypothyroid but not quite low enough for
medication (apparently).
So really it seems that Ketostix arent as informative as i 1st thought. They dont indicate how many ketones our body is actually producing then or how much fat is being burned. Thats frustrating. Would a blood monitor give a better idea, or does that just measure the waste ketones too?
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I found where @wabmester originally talked about this in another thread:Not really a giant mystery. You've made a valuable discovery -- ketone levels tell you nothing and have no effect on weight loss.
You're still making a bunch of ketones, but you're utilizing most of them. The blood level just gives you a snapshot during the day of how much you're NOT utilizing, and that level varies through-out the day.
If you have ANY ketones in your blood, that means your are breaking down fat. The level is regulated by your liver, and it's different for everybody. There is no homeostatic level like there is for blood sugar. Personally, I think it was nonsensical for Phinney and Volek to describe "optimal" levels in their books, but as you're finding out, there is no "optimal". I just wish more people would discover the same thing.0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Hormonal issues are a possibility, although ive had all the basic blood tests at the docs, several times over, and everything has always come back negative, other than being borderline hypothyroid but not quite low enough for
medication (apparently).
So really it seems that Ketostix arent as informative as i 1st thought. They dont indicate how many ketones our body is actually producing then or how much fat is being burned. Thats frustrating. Would a blood monitor give a better idea, or does that just measure the waste ketones too?
Blood and breath are more accurate. Blood monitor strips are EXPENSIVE (while the units are not). A reusable device like a Ketonix (@DittoDan and a few others use) can be great.0 -
I found where @wabmester originally talked about this in another thread:Not really a giant mystery. You've made a valuable discovery -- ketone levels tell you nothing and have no effect on weight loss.
You're still making a bunch of ketones, but you're utilizing most of them. The blood level just gives you a snapshot during the day of how much you're NOT utilizing, and that level varies through-out the day.
If you have ANY ketones in your blood, that means your are breaking down fat. The level is regulated by your liver, and it's different for everybody. There is no homeostatic level like there is for blood sugar. Personally, I think it was nonsensical for Phinney and Volek to describe "optimal" levels in their books, but as you're finding out, there is no "optimal". I just wish more people would discover the same thing.
Ahhh, thats interesting, thanks sweetie.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Hormonal issues are a possibility, although ive had all the basic blood tests at the docs, several times over, and everything has always come back negative, other than being borderline hypothyroid but not quite low enough for
medication (apparently).
So really it seems that Ketostix arent as informative as i 1st thought. They dont indicate how many ketones our body is actually producing then or how much fat is being burned. Thats frustrating. Would a blood monitor give a better idea, or does that just measure the waste ketones too?
Blood and breath are more accurate. Blood monitor strips are EXPENSIVE (while the units are not). A reusable device like a Ketonix (@DittoDan and a few others use) can be great.
How to Use a Ketonix Ketone Breath Analyzer
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan0 -
Well another rough day im afraid. I really thought id turned a corner this past couple of days and i was starting to feel 'normal' at least, but today was not good again - bl@@dy horrible, in fact. The usual suspects - tiredness, muscle & bone aches, zero energy, heavy feeling in my body, headaches, awful mood etc. I just cannot shake it nomatter what i try. It is now 6.50pm and i am in bed. Its that bad. The house is a mess, my son is a mess, im a mess.... argghhhh. I get so frustrated when i feel like this because it floors me and i am literally useless. Its taking all my strength and energy to hold my head up - sounds melodramatic, but true - my head feels like a bowling ball held up by a twiglet.
Weird thing is, today i got my strongest ketostix reading yet - at least 4 mmol/L - so i just cant understand why i feel so cr@p when im in full-on keto.
Im really really reluctant to give up keto, but if it makes me ill theres not much i can do about it, and theres only so long i can deal with being poorly and rendered useless with a son, house and fiance to look after. I just dont know what to do. I dont want to have to give in on this WOE but something is just not right
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Refresh my memory, how many calories are you eating, how many carbs/fat/protein? And are you hydrated?0
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Hi deksgrl. My calories are 1200 a day (im only 5ft tall and 131 pounds, so my cals have to be low to lose any weight. 1200 cals will apparently allow me to lose just 0.7 pounds a week, but in reality it has just maintained my weight; ive lost nothing for the past month. Im really beginning to think i would need to eat less than 1000 cals a day to lose any weight. This realisation depresses me tbh b/c less than 1000 cals every day would be so damned restrictive - particularly when low-carb high-fat foods are so calorie dense for such small portions I feel restricted now at 1200.. but maybe i just need to realise that b/c im so short im not going to be able to eat 'normal' sized meals regularly and lose weight. I have a hearty appetite so eating what appears to be child's portions is tough or me to get used to - but then i guess its overeating that got me overweight in the 1st place, so i have to be held accountable and teach my tummy to be satisfied with much smaller portions i suppose).
My macros are:
Carbs 15-20g TOTAL (5%)
Protein 75g (25%)
Fat 93g (70%)
What are your thoughts?
Im considering upping my carbs to maybe 20g Net, or 40g total.. but then im not sure if that is the problem. I mean, i think its the very low carbs that are causing me to become so ill, but it could be too high fats? too low protein? too high protein? Gah! Its like fumbling in the dark. Why does there have to be so many variations of a keto diet? Everyone's macros look so different, so i dont know what im doing tbh.0 -
Coconuttymummy,
Your comment above looks reasonable as far as increasing carbs a tad (?). Also, your diary came through my feed and you were only at 1,000 cals I think? Perhaps increasing calories till you adjust would help? I'm sure someone else has suggested this and maybe that won't work for you? I've personally stopped worrying about whether I'm in keto, and am just low carb'ing under 40's. Hope you feel better!!!0 -
Hi HealthyMom,
I do sometimes only get to 1000 calories, rather than 1200, but more times than not it slightly over 1200, so it averages out at 1200 id say.
Ive been really worried about increasing my calories because i gained weight when i ate closer to 1400 cals (i shouldnt have done, b/c my TDEE is apparently 1550, but the weight starts piling on at very little increase in cals).
Do you aim for 40g net or total carbs?
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Do you use a food scale to measure your portions for calories? If not then perhaps you were eating more than 1400 when you were gaining. It is very easy to underestimate your calories and when you have a small margin of error that can be a problem.
I'd say you really don't have anything to lose increasing carbs to 40g since you are feeling so ill now.0 -
I don't worry about net. I eat 30-50g. I agree that you have nothing to lose by upping to 40g since you are feeling so poorly. And at this point I think you should be careful not to dip below 1200 on any given day. Once you feel well consistently, then that's a different story altogether.0
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Check on your salt and magnesium. I added broth with 1 T coconut oil and 1 T butter--felt better. Then got a few leg cramps, so added 100 mg Magnesium Citrate caps (1 morning, 1 evening), slept better and felt better. Also, be sure to keep hydrated.0
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Be sure you're getting enough salt. 3500mg or more.0
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I think if you upped protein a bit and ate a bit more it would help? Seems like too much too fast perhaps.0
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Electrolytes are not the problem - i supplement all of them.
I'm a stubborn woman, so im really reluctant to give up on this woe, even though its flooring me. I'll give it a bit longer but at some point if things dont improve i will have to admit defeat.
I find it so frustrating that keto is not going well for me in any shape or form, when it seems like everyone else and their dog are reaping amazing benefits from it. Its like everyone's having a party and im not invited! (not only am i not invited im sick in bed feeling & looking like *kitten*!).
I'll keep playing with my macros and trying different foods, meal sizes, meal timings etc this week and we'll see what happens. Im not in the market for punishing myself like this without losing any weight for my efforts, so something has to change... soon.0 -
You are very stubborn indeed! lol Eat more. 0
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Haha, Alabaster, damn right! 0
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Annnnd... it just keeps getting better and better... Just spent the last 20 minutes being violently sick, for the 2nd time today. That and explosive diarrhea (TMI) & stomach cramps.
No wonder people tend to not eat as much on keto - ive been scared to eat much all day b/c its just going to upset my stomach.
I feel like its all this fat thats making me sick. I remember as a child/teen our regular family trip to an italian restaurant.. id always order spaghetti carbonara.. loved how rich n creamy it tasted.. and then without fail i would start getting tummy ache on the way home and would puke my whole dinner up as soon as i got in the door. Why did i continue to order food that was guaranteed to make me sick? because it was my favorite and i was determined that next time my tummy would cope with it, but it never did. I feel exactly the same now - all the fat is making me sickly but i keep thinking "by tomorrow my system will have grown accustomed to all the rich fats and it wont make me ill": so far this hasnt been true, unfortunately.
Did anyone else struggle with stomach upsets or sickness when you 1st started eating high fats?0 -
I was a bit nauseous at first because I really stayed away from fats never ever ate butter, cream, or milk. So my system did rebel a it at first. Am still only able to do butter in my BPC, the feel of it in my mouth makes me gag (I never did margarine either, olive oil for everything). Have you had anymore blood work done? I know how hard it is to function when you're so I'll all the time. Have spent days in bed on Hashimoto's crashes. I really hope you're able to sort this out soon. Remember you have to look after yourself first or you're not able to take care of others. Hugs.0
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »(...)
Did anyone else struggle with stomach upsets or sickness when you 1st started eating high fats?
Awfully so. I had very little fats before, never liked the taste/texture of fat. But my problem was also that I started cold turkey, from a vegetarian high carb to LCHF. I think in the beginning I was forcing myself to eat much more fat than what was necessary. I saw everywhere that you were supposed to get at least 70% fat and to me that meant volume.
Stupid, I know, I was drowning everything in fat. This was before I found MFP but if I had started measuring/logging correctly I would have noticed much sooner that I had increased my fat intake enormously just by changing from high carbs to meat/low carb veggies. What clicked it for me was this post: dietdoctor.com/dinner-diet-doctors That looked like normal food, not the fatty mess I was forcing myself to eat!
When I stopped eating too much fat everything started going well, all my digestive issues cleared and I understood the feel good factor everyone talks about.
It looks like you are much more knowledgeable than I was so your problem is unlikely to be just too much fat too quickly, as was mine. But if you're feeling unwell from fat why don't you lower your fat intake for a few days? You need fat to control hunger, not for keto. It is my understanding that to get keto adapted you only need to control your carbs and, to a lesser extent, your protein. As long as you're eating enough calories and are not hungry you don't need to force yourself to eat more fat.
Sorry I can't be more useful, I'm hoping someone will know more. I'm sending you good vibes... hey, can't harm!
::flowerforyou::0 -
Thanks so much to you both - the support really means a lot.
I think what im going to do is stick to the 5% / 15g carbs for a few more days (i cant deal with thinking "i went through nearly a month of keto-hell but dropped out just before i turned the corner), but..... im going to try raising my protein a little because ive only been reaching about 50g protein (15%ish), and for 25% protein i should be eating 90g. Im wondering if too-low protein is causing the muscle aches and cramps (this is just thinking out loud - i have no knowledge whether too-low protein levels can cause symptoms like mine?)
And i do think ive been overdoing the fats a little, so im going to tighten up on those just slightly.
If non of this works within the next few days i will have to admit defeat and raise my carbs to anywhere between 30-45g a day (10%-15% carbs).
This is one last-ditch attempt to get the macros right and start feeling 'alive' again on keto. I dont want to have to say this woe is not for me, but if all that fails to get me back on my feet, i will have to accept that keto is not for me.
Cant say im not trying! Yoy yoy yoyyyyy!
Thanks again peeps for being so lovely and helpful through this dietary nightmare!0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thats very interesting, Twibbly. Its great to hear youve nailed down what was causing your symptoms and that you're feeling so good lately. There's hope yet!
My list of symptoms are as follows:
1) tiredness & constant lack of energy no matter how much i sleep
2) muscle aches & bone aches that never go away. Painkillers dont touch it.
3) physical weakness (and i used to be strong but now i have no power whatsoever particularly in my upper body)
3) bad moods, depression & anxiety
4) constipation and diarrhea (sometimes at the same time!)
5) random stomach pains and bloating after eating
6) lots of trapped wind
7) strange body odour
8) hairloss (ive lost 50% of my hair volume and my hairline has receded like male pattern baldness)
9) body always cold
10) pain & swollen thyroid area (looks like i have a man's adams apple this past few years) but tests come back within normal range (although i am towards the borderline of hypothyroid, just not low enough for treatment)
11) dizzy spells
12) periodontal disease (that refuses to clear up, for past 4 years, despite countless antibiotics and good dental hygiene - although i do smoke).
13) burning in my muscles with only the slightest exertion
14) mental fog, confusion, slow reaction time, general dulling of intelligence compared to me at normal functionality.
Do these sound like food allergies or anything familiar to you?
Its nothing obviously medical because ive had every test under the sun - bloodtests, xrays, ecgs, mri's, ultrasounds, and the little camera up my nose into my throat (ENT clinic) and down my throat into my stomach or wherever they go (GI clinic). Everything has come back negative.
I was really hoping very low carb keto would sort these issues out but it seems something is still causing it.
I think i'll try going totally dairy-free for a while and see if that helps, although i do feel like im clutching at straws and fumbling in the dark a little.
This really does sound hormonal, bolded especially, though the others could go that way as well as to a number of other causes. #10 could be thyroid nodule/s, which may or may not be worrisome, but need to be looked at via ultrasound. (You can have those even with a normal standard blood test.) Have you seen an endocrinologist, or just your GP? .
(I have nodules. My GP didn't catch them. Another doctor at a walk-in clinic thought my neck looked funny, and sent me to an endocrinologist, who ordered ultrasounds and then a fine needle aspiration biopsy. Mine turned out to be benign, but sometimes they're not, and that's not always caught through the standard tests most GPs order. I'm not trying to scare you, it's just worth looking at again more carefully, imo.)
Other symptoms could be autoimmune-related, in which case a rheumatologist is the person to see. But I think that thyroid needs looking at again.0 -
Thanks Tomatoey - i'll try and get an appointment with a doctor soon. I need to get a list of all the tests i need to ask for.
Thanks again. x0 -
Well i never... FINALLY the scale has moved.. and in the right direction, too! I awoke this morning to a 4 pound loss. WOOHOOOOOOO!
And i dont feel too shabby either today. Had really bad stomach cramps and bit of sickness, but it passed within 20 minutes or so and now i feel quite normal. Not brimming with energy but *thank God* not as terribly poorly feeling as i have been. I dont want to get over excited incase its a flash in the pan, but im hopeful that im through the worst and that finally my weight will start decreasing regularly again. I can only hope, pray and cross every finger and toe available to me. 0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks Tomatoey - i'll try and get an appointment with a doctor soon. I need to get a list of all the tests i need to ask for.
Thanks again. x
When you do, stress your thyroid. So many posts here have wondered about your thyroid (low, hashimotos...)
And congrats on the visit from the whoosh fairy!0 -
Will do. Ive had my thyroid checked several times (blood tests, scans, xrays etc) but no harm in checking one more time.
Haha, yup the Whoosh Fairy came at last. I must have been a good girl, finally 0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks Tomatoey - i'll try and get an appointment with a doctor soon. I need to get a list of all the tests i need to ask for.
Thanks again. x
No worries Congrats on your whoosh, and good luck! 0 -
In no way am I an expert or equipped to give medical advice, but so much of what you post sounds like the thyroid he!! I've been dealing with. Not a single doctor ever seemed concerned about my thyroid, even with all the symptoms I would give them (which I had no clue at the time were related to thyroid as well). After years and years, it took an ultrasound for something entirely different for it to be discovered I had a thyroid nodule. If I had only known then what I know now..... *sigh*
I hope you can find a doctor that will do thorough testing on your thyroid...and hope even more that it ends up not being a thyroid issue. In the meantime, though, I would suggest doing some studying on the subject here on the internet. There's so much info out there! And there's so many having these same symptoms.
No matter what woe you end up with, the main factor is to feel better and be able to function day to day. Got my fingers crossed you can get there soon. 0 -
I totally agree. Ive had these symptoms for about 5 years now and after reading a little on the net i became convinced it was a thyroid problem too. I was terrified that it could be cancer but thankfully not. During this time ive had at least 3 sets of bloodtests, an MRI, Ultrasounds, various X-Rays, a camera up my nose & down my throat, and a camera down my throat into my tummy - All my results came back negative (except for borderline hypothyroid which apparently is still within normal ranges, just lower end of). Doctors started to treat me like a hypochondriac - told me there was nothing wrong and not to worry - despite my symptoms continuing to be concerning and having a negative influence on my life. I thought it was thyroid problems of some sort - all of my symptoms fit and i suffered with constant tenderness, swelling and discomfort of my thyroid area. After some research i decided to try supplementing with Lugols (Iodine drops). I started at a low dose and increased gradually to where im at now - 30mg. I cant be 100% sure if this is helping me, but since starting the Iodine the pain, swelling & discomfort in my adams apple area has subsided significantly and i now only have slight tenderness & get the odd twinge. Also, my weightloss started to progress once i began taking Iodine, but i also cleaned up my diet around the same time, so that's inconclusive.
You're right about the importance of being able to function day to day on any woe - the human body is an amazing machine and it tells you loud and clear if something is wrong. Im trying to listen to my body and work out exactly what it needs to function successfully. Nutrition is key. I believe if you keep making small changes to your macros, and pay attention to your body, eventually you will come across a woe that could heal you. I have hope 0
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