Help me reconcile CICO and sugar alcohols
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Just to add a little to the mix from my own 100 pound weight loss. The WHOLE time I was losing weight (14 months following Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat book SOE) I was chewing Extra gum going through a pack a day totaling 30 grams of alcohol sugars per day. I was also drinking Crystal Light (about two gallons a day) which has aspartame unfortunately. These are what I used to fight off the true sweet cravings.0
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Just to add a little to the mix from my own 100 pound weight loss. The WHOLE time I was losing weight (14 months following Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat book SOE) I was chewing Extra gum going through a pack a day totaling 30 grams of alcohol sugars per day. I was also drinking Crystal Light (about two gallons a day) which has aspartame unfortunately. These are what I used to fight off the true sweet cravings.
I think it is all so individual. But as Sherlock Holmes is often quoted as saying, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Therefore, for those folks still slowing after doing the other things right, looking at sweeteners might be his/her individual issue...but there are so many facets to this lifestyle of eating that it's nearly impossible to isolate it down to one or even five things to "change" or "fix" etc.0 -
We have Mio here to in Canada, but I like NesFrutta better, same sort of idea but at least made from real fruit. Still 0cal/0fat/0carb and I use a TINY squirt in a 750 ml bottle just to barely change the taste, not to make 'juice', lol. Great flavours like berry pomegranate, pineapple-coconut, strawberry banana.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Just to add a little to the mix from my own 100 pound weight loss. The WHOLE time I was losing weight (14 months following Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat book SOE) I was chewing Extra gum going through a pack a day totaling 30 grams of alcohol sugars per day. I was also drinking Crystal Light (about two gallons a day) which has aspartame unfortunately. These are what I used to fight off the true sweet cravings.
I think it is all so individual. But as Sherlock Holmes is often quoted as saying, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Therefore, for those folks still slowing after doing the other things right, looking at sweeteners might be his/her individual issue...but there are so many facets to this lifestyle of eating that it's nearly impossible to isolate it down to one or even five things to "change" or "fix" etc.
So true. This 'Bio-Hacking' business is complicated stuff (I love when you say "you're doing arithmetic whilst your body is doing calculus". There are so many factors in play that its really tough to work out what needs changing.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Just to add a little to the mix from my own 100 pound weight loss. The WHOLE time I was losing weight (14 months following Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat book SOE) I was chewing Extra gum going through a pack a day totaling 30 grams of alcohol sugars per day. I was also drinking Crystal Light (about two gallons a day) which has aspartame unfortunately. These are what I used to fight off the true sweet cravings.
I think it is all so individual. But as Sherlock Holmes is often quoted as saying, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Therefore, for those folks still slowing after doing the other things right, looking at sweeteners might be his/her individual issue...but there are so many facets to this lifestyle of eating that it's nearly impossible to isolate it down to one or even five things to "change" or "fix" etc.
So true. This 'Bio-Hacking' business is complicated stuff (I love when you say "you're doing arithmetic whilst your body is doing calculus". There are so many factors in play that its really tough to work out what needs changing.
Yeah, I've changed that statement now due to conversations with intelligent folks all around!
"Your body is doing calculus, physics, and chemistry while you're doing basic arithmetic!"0 -
There is some literature out about those little MIO squeezies, and it is NOT positive.
Not from experience, but from the hours and days of reading done, your calorie being too low might be right on the button. Have you tried heavy cream in your coffee in stead of black and sweet? I am really a cappuccino gal, but steamed milk has more carbs thanks I want, so now I drink it with heavy cream or switch altogether. Green tea is my friend. And sparkling water. I was a coca-cola FIEND, so I needed the sparkle. I just drink it, green tea and plain water (which I love. From the tap. No help there, sorry)
Cold fruit tea always smells so good, but I find the taste disappointing, but if you drop the sweeteners you might find after a week or so that it is sweet enough.
Good luck.0 -
Yeah, I'm a big fan of unsweetened iced tea. Got used to drinking it as a teenager, so I've had a long time to come around to the unsweetened flavor. But I honestly liked it pretty quickly. That's just regular black tea, but you can change it up with whatever teas you like. There's a red hibiscus tea around here that's great, has a little bit of a tart flavor and a brightness about it.
I don't know how good it is iced, but Yerba Mate (that they drink all the time in Argentina) has an interesting, almost smoky flavor, and has some herbal components that give you an energy kick without caffeine.
I know none of this sounds good to you YET... but give unsweetened drinks a try, you really might find that you can enjoy them after your taste buds reset.
1st UP your calories...I know this seems counter productive, but 1200 is the bare minimum and unless you are very petite and very inactive, your body needs more food. I hate that whole starvation nonsense, but if you are not eating enough and also stressing about what you can eat, then you're releasing hormones which are counterproductive to your weight loss goals. Up a little at a time and see if that helps.
@CoconuttyMummy, have you watched the Dr. Jason Fong video about, among other things, the benefits of fasting? I don't remember which thread it was posted in, or who posted it, but I think this one is probably pretty similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpllomiDMX0
Dr. Fong talks about how study subjects who ate restricted-calorie diets every day lost weight initially, but then their metabolisms dropped to match the new number of calories in, and the losses stopped. Alternate-day fasters, by contrast, could eat the same average number of calories per day in a week, but continue losing weight, because their metabolisms wouldn't adjust to the fasting days. In other words, fasting confuses your metabolism.
He doesn't mention this in the lecture I saw, but I've heard of the "calorie cycling" concept that's designed to do something similar. I.e. You could eat 1200 calories per day, average, in a week, but have 1000-calorie days and 1400-calorie days. Or 600 calorie days (probably involving an intermittent fast, but not necessarily) and 1800-calorie days. Might be worth a try if you're reluctant to raise total calories.
Last but not least, *Hugs* to you, too! You're working so hard. I'm sure you will find the right balance of things to break through this momentary plateau.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thankyou guys *hugs*, really appreciate your inputs.
So the gum is out, period. Gone. See ya!
The drinks will be harder. Im going to consciously reduce my intake and see if this helps. I want to cut them out completely (well, i dont want to, but need to it seems), but i honestly dont know what id drink instead. I know this sounds so lame but i genuinely hate the taste of water. If i have to drink water only i become very dehydrated b/c i just cant bring myself to drink more than a diddy sip at a time. Ive always hated water. What could i switch the sweetened coffees and diet soda's for?
What do you guys drink on a day-to-day basis? And please dont all say WATER!!!!
Water taste can be altered. I'm making at go at salting my water (which I've always hated before), but it is getting easier. Some people us a slice of lemon or lime in their water, or even cucumber. I personally don't like that, but after years of forcing myself to switch to water (and hating it too, at first), I find that now, I love the taste of water. The have dye and barely sweetened MIO type flavor things now, but you still need plain water, too...biologically.
I tell people, if you wouldn't wash your clothes in coffee and expect them to be clean, why would you "wash" the insides of your body (removing toxins and cellular debris, etc.) in coffee and expect it to get "clean." Sometimes, it is worth chugging bottled water (the local stuff here is AWFUL) now and again, forcibly, just to get more water in...
I pretty much drink water and tea... That's it really.
What could possibly taste worse than water?... SALT WATER! My gawd, Knit, you're hardcore! I know we need to keep our sodium up but the only result id get from attempting to drink salted water would be projectile vomiting! Ugh! I feel nauseous just thinking about it. *shudders*.
What are MIO type things? Never heard of them.
What about those little tiny squeezy tubes of super concentrated fruit squash to flavor water? I wonder if they would work out less carby than regular fruit squash or just the same?
Yeah, Mio is the brand here in the US. I forget what my fiance called the UK version... but yeah, liquid squeeze pod. squishing fruit into your water will have less carbs as long as you stay to the non-sweet fruits. You're looking for flavor, not sweetness.
I find that temperature matters, too, on water.
The salt water thing doesn't taste salty at all. It's hard to explain. I have pink himalayan salt I put in my grinder. I add like 4 of those "grains" into a 17 oz water bottle. It changes water from acid to alkaline (which can also help with heartburn/GERD/etc.), but it doesn't taste salty. Of course, with my thyroid being low, lots of salt makes me feel like superwoman on Ritalin anyway (the iodine, mainly, I think), so I can take salt plain. not too much or I get the tossing reaction, too... I'd much rather eat crystals between each bottle.
Isn't Mio sucralose?0 -
jennybird99 wrote: »There is some literature out about those little MIO squeezies, and it is NOT positive.
Not from experience, but from the hours and days of reading done, your calorie being too low might be right on the button. Have you tried heavy cream in your coffee in stead of black and sweet? I am really a cappuccino gal, but steamed milk has more carbs thanks I want, so now I drink it with heavy cream or switch altogether. Green tea is my friend. And sparkling water. I was a coca-cola FIEND, so I needed the sparkle. I just drink it, green tea and plain water (which I love. From the tap. No help there, sorry)
Cold fruit tea always smells so good, but I find the taste disappointing, but if you drop the sweeteners you might find after a week or so that it is sweet enough.
Good luck.
I love coffee with HWC, thats how ive been drinking it this past week or so, but its really messing with my calories. I literally have to go without lunch if i have a couple of nice large coffees with HWC, because my calories are so low, which is becoming a real nuisance b/c ive been drinking BPC for breakfast, so that leaves me one (small) solid meal a day. And then i also struggle to meet my protein requirements b/c ive had no protein at breakfast OR lunch. I think i'll just have to deal with the fact that any kind of white coffee will be a rare treat for me now, rather than a day-to-day norm. Im tired of trying to make it fit into my macros and failing. The more i think about it, sure i LOVE a creamy coffee every day, it does cheer me up and make me feel better, BUT id love to be slim a lot lot more, so i guess this is just another in a long line of sacrifices i'll have to make if i want to see that scale go down. It is depressing to be denied everything in life you enjoy, down to the last smallest thing like coffee, but its more depressing feeling fat & not achieving my weight loss goals, so im going to suck it up and put the creamy sweetened coffees behind me. Im over it.
Ive always been the same with the fruit teas - they always smell promising but taste so bland and blah. BUT, ive always been comparing them to other beverages id prefer to drink. I think if i just compare them to plain water i might find them less blah. I guess a lot of this is the way you view it - im just going to have to re-train my brain to enjoy calorie-free, unsweetened beverages. When all the other 'nice' flavorful drinks are removed from the equation i suppose the subtle taste of fruit teas may become more enjoyable in time. I'll grab a few different teas to try. In the longrun this could be the best thing to happen to me - being forced to drink pure, clean water might be just what the doctor ordered.
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Ahhh Yerba Mate. Yesss. I used to drink this a lot, pre-keto (with cow juice of course). I'll grab myself some. I like anything with potential wakey-uppy properties - im always 2 blinks from falling asleep, no matter how much sleep i get
Red Hibiscus sounds good too. I'll see if i can get a selection of herb and fruit teas to try. Id love it if i could find one i dont hate drinking... without sweetener!!!!
I hadnt heard of Dr Fong. Thankyou so much for bringing him to my attention. It makes perfect sense and i do believe that is what is happening to me - my metabolism has dropped to my new low calorie level and im basically in starvation mode so my body is not letting go of any more fat. A few people have tried to suggest this to me, but i couldnt get my head around eating more calories if im not losing weight at lower cals. I was too scared to up my cals, only to put more weight on. BUT, this calorie cyling idea or alternate day IFing makes so much sense. Im going to have to do some reading to work out how many calories i need on day 1 and how many on day 2 to add up to an average of 1200 a day for the whole week. Im rubbish at math and have serious brain fog (from lack of nourishment i think) so im more confused about how many calories to aim for on each day than i should be. Im not sure how to work it out. Would you go up to maintenance on the higher calorie days, or do you think that's too high?
And thanks for the *hug*, sweetie. Having friends to hold my hand through this means the world. x
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Im not sure how to work it out. Would you go up to maintenance on the higher calorie days, or do you think that's too high?
I say yes, it should clear up the brain fog.
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Thanks Deksgrl. Im set to 1200 cals (for a 300 cal deficit). My maintenance is apparently 1550. So on the low cal/IF days should i consume 900 cals, do you think? That would average out to 1200 at the end of the week (i think?) Or would you go less than that to try and kickstart some fat loss?0
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Well, the math works out to 937.5 calories on IF day if you do 3 days a week at 1550.
Because 1200 x 7 = 8400 (your weekly calorie goal)
3 days x 1550 = 4650
4 days x 937.5 = 3750
4650 + 3750 = 8400
Personally, I would see what happens with cutting the sweeteners at 1200 calories per day. Give that a few weeks and then if you still don't see progress, give the IF a try. Because you were having such a hard time adjusting for so long, I would hate it if 900 calorie days made you feel worse again, it hasn't been very long since you started feeling better.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I see time and again where LCHF folks say the weight loss stalled when they added snacks and foods with sugar alcohols. In particular people say they don't lose weight when eating atkins bars, quest bars etc. All other things the same...
Help me understand how this happens. And, help me understand it in the context of CICO. (and carbs in!) I'm dense sometimes.
To answer the very very original post, it is more likely all the (useless and detrimental) added fiber in the atkins and quest bars that are slowing weight loss, rather than the sugar alcohols. Not that SA can't slow your weight loss, but a lot of the bars achieve zero or low carb status by having ridiculous amounts of fiber. That's not really food, that's a chemical cocktail.
Check out the nutritional info of quest bars to see what I mean.
Naturally occurring fiber? I'm all for it. Added fiber? I never count these against NET when I am figuring carbs. They just don't add up.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thankyou guys *hugs*, really appreciate your inputs.
So the gum is out, period. Gone. See ya!
The drinks will be harder. Im going to consciously reduce my intake and see if this helps. I want to cut them out completely (well, i dont want to, but need to it seems), but i honestly dont know what id drink instead. I know this sounds so lame but i genuinely hate the taste of water. If i have to drink water only i become very dehydrated b/c i just cant bring myself to drink more than a diddy sip at a time. Ive always hated water. What could i switch the sweetened coffees and diet soda's for?
What do you guys drink on a day-to-day basis? And please dont all say WATER!!!!
Water taste can be altered. I'm making at go at salting my water (which I've always hated before), but it is getting easier. Some people us a slice of lemon or lime in their water, or even cucumber. I personally don't like that, but after years of forcing myself to switch to water (and hating it too, at first), I find that now, I love the taste of water. The have dye and barely sweetened MIO type flavor things now, but you still need plain water, too...biologically.
I tell people, if you wouldn't wash your clothes in coffee and expect them to be clean, why would you "wash" the insides of your body (removing toxins and cellular debris, etc.) in coffee and expect it to get "clean." Sometimes, it is worth chugging bottled water (the local stuff here is AWFUL) now and again, forcibly, just to get more water in...
I pretty much drink water and tea... That's it really.
What could possibly taste worse than water?... SALT WATER! My gawd, Knit, you're hardcore! I know we need to keep our sodium up but the only result id get from attempting to drink salted water would be projectile vomiting! Ugh! I feel nauseous just thinking about it. *shudders*.
What are MIO type things? Never heard of them.
What about those little tiny squeezy tubes of super concentrated fruit squash to flavor water? I wonder if they would work out less carby than regular fruit squash or just the same?
Yeah, Mio is the brand here in the US. I forget what my fiance called the UK version... but yeah, liquid squeeze pod. squishing fruit into your water will have less carbs as long as you stay to the non-sweet fruits. You're looking for flavor, not sweetness.
I find that temperature matters, too, on water.
The salt water thing doesn't taste salty at all. It's hard to explain. I have pink himalayan salt I put in my grinder. I add like 4 of those "grains" into a 17 oz water bottle. It changes water from acid to alkaline (which can also help with heartburn/GERD/etc.), but it doesn't taste salty. Of course, with my thyroid being low, lots of salt makes me feel like superwoman on Ritalin anyway (the iodine, mainly, I think), so I can take salt plain. not too much or I get the tossing reaction, too... I'd much rather eat crystals between each bottle.
Isn't Mio sucralose?
I honestly have no idea, @Sabine_Stroehm . I have never used them personally (too costly compared to generic brands). I have found some of the generic brand that uses Stevia and one with Stevia and No Dyes, but the named branded MIO itself, I don't know...0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Isn't Mio sucralose?
I honestly have no idea, @Sabine_Stroehm . I have never used them personally (too costly compared to generic brands). I have found some of the generic brand that uses Stevia and one with Stevia and No Dyes, but the named branded MIO itself, I don't know...
Yes. I bought some when it was on sale, and it is sucralose.
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Well, the math works out to 937.5 calories on IF day if you do 3 days a week at 1550.
Because 1200 x 7 = 8400 (your weekly calorie goal)
3 days x 1550 = 4650
4 days x 937.5 = 3750
4650 + 3750 = 8400
Personally, I would see what happens with cutting the sweeteners at 1200 calories per day. Give that a few weeks and then if you still don't see progress, give the IF a try. Because you were having such a hard time adjusting for so long, I would hate it if 900 calorie days made you feel worse again, it hasn't been very long since you started feeling better.
Thankyou Deksgrl. I agree that i dont fancy feeling like cr@p again by going too low in calories. I think what im going to do is drop my cals just by 100, to 1100 cals a day. See what happens there.
And most importantly im weaning myself off the artifical sweeteners/sugar alcohols like you suggested. Im down to about 1/3rd of what i was consuming, and cutting down a little more each day. Now i can see how overly sweet i was making my drinks. My pallet is getting used to 3 drops sucrose per huge mug coffee/tea instead of 10+ and i am hoping i will get to a point where i dont need any at all. I suppose a 66% improvement in 3 or so days isnt too bad! Thanks for the advice and impetus to do this.
Ive given up the sugar-free chewing gum completely. I actually feel a LOT less hungry not consuming it. The fruity flavors really triggered hunger pangs and cravings for sweet stuff and i didnt even realise it until i stopped chain chewing the stuff.
I bought a load of different fruit teas as suggested and so far ive found 2 i like - not just tolerate, but actually like - that's a nice surprise. My favorites from what ive sampled so far are both Twinings brand - Grapefruit & Pineapple Green Tea, and Lemon & Ginger. I couldnt find any Hibiscus yet. I tried 2 Tetley ones - Mango & Passionfruit Green Tea, and Red Berry Green Tea with Vitamin B - but they were really weak and wishy-washy in flavor and a bit hay-like, so think i'll avoid Tetley & try some more from Twinings. Thanks so much for introducing me to them. Great way to keep your fluids up if you dont fancy plain water.
Im getting really ticked-off with this blooming stall, so im hoping these changes will help.
Thanks again for your inputs, x
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I never ever thought I would have coffee with no sugar/sweetness. I was having coffee with 3 sugars by age 14!
I haven't had any sort of sweetener in my coffee for a couple of months now. I only drink instant coffee, which is more common in New Zealand, but I make sure I choose a nice freeze dried one that is a lower strength flavour. I thought that would give a gross weak taste but it doesn't. The granules are more "blonde" rather than almost black and burnt tasting like the old stuff I had. The flavours are still there, just different. The one I chose is arabica beans I think...it has an almost biscuit (cookie) taste. But still really like delicious coffee. I have 10ml of cream in each coffee. Yum.
I hate herbal tea!0 -
Mmm, yummy cream in your coffee definitely helps make up for lack of sweetness. Unsweetened black coffee is harder to get used to, i think, but im getting there. Its like everyone says, your sweet tooth does reduce if you limit your intake of sweet foods. I didnt believe it was possible to dampen my sweet tooth but it seems to be working.
I hate herbal tea too, and i used to hate fruit teas, but its amazing what you can get used to under the right conditions, especially if you find it might help you reach your goals. Yay to fruit teas, i say 0 -
@minties82 This is the first place I have ever lived that actually has drinkable instant coffee. It mystifies me. Don't get me wrong, I am a diehard gourmet coffee fiend, but it's nice to know I have an emergency fallback if I need it. I found a blend that makes killer iced coffee and now I prefer instant for that purpose unless I am cold brewing something with coffee ice cubes as a special treat.0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I see time and again where LCHF folks say the weight loss stalled when they added snacks and foods with sugar alcohols. In particular people say they don't lose weight when eating atkins bars, quest bars etc. All other things the same...
Help me understand how this happens. And, help me understand it in the context of CICO. (and carbs in!) I'm dense sometimes.
I can't really help you out at the moment, but I can offer to be a guinea pig. LOL I just restructured my CICO, which has included some Atkins shakes and Nature Valley protein bars. I have no clue if it will help me or make things worse than what they were, but time will tell.......
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AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »@minties82 This is the first place I have ever lived that actually has drinkable instant coffee. It mystifies me. Don't get me wrong, I am a diehard gourmet coffee fiend, but it's nice to know I have an emergency fallback if I need it. I found a blend that makes killer iced coffee and now I prefer instant for that purpose unless I am cold brewing something with coffee ice cubes as a special treat.
My mother works for Fresh Foods in Auckland, they make and service coffee machines (industrial rather than home), she makes a killer coffee when I visit her workplace! I've only had instant or percolated in peoples homes, but proper barista(spelling?) made coffee is definitely the yumness.Percolated is revolting to me, I have tried lots of brands. Has this weird thin but sharp taste? I like Jeds instant freeze dried but I am not really that fussy I suppose. I can't have cafe coffee now unless it's black which is not fun, unless I sneak cream in my bag.0
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