Visceral Fat
deksgrl
Posts: 7,237 Member
Something was mentioned in passing in another thread about this WOE being effective for reducing visceral fat. I'm interested in learning more about this, studies (in layman's terms), anectdotes, etc. I used the search on the forum and didn't come up with anything useful.
My biggest "trouble spot" is my belly. I am interested in fat reduction since I am close to high end of ideal weight for my height and frame. I am probably between 28-30% bf which at age 52 is in the acceptable range. And I am okay with how I look, except for the beer belly look. It IS reducing, I have taken in two holes on my belt in two months eating this way.
My rudimentary understanding of it is: by being fat adapted, my body is using the fat for energy, including the visceral fat? And this is why even though the scale isn't showing a lot of movement, there is inches lost?
My biggest "trouble spot" is my belly. I am interested in fat reduction since I am close to high end of ideal weight for my height and frame. I am probably between 28-30% bf which at age 52 is in the acceptable range. And I am okay with how I look, except for the beer belly look. It IS reducing, I have taken in two holes on my belt in two months eating this way.
My rudimentary understanding of it is: by being fat adapted, my body is using the fat for energy, including the visceral fat? And this is why even though the scale isn't showing a lot of movement, there is inches lost?
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I understand subcutaneous fat as first access. Visceral fat is secondary access and some is always stored and emergency starvation survival stores
Even ultra ripped body builders have that emergency visceral fat.
That is my understanding after a few conversations and article reads on the topic
Scale not moving and inches going down means your body density is changing
You are made of more hard heavy stuff and less fluffy stuff.0 -
I was made to understand that the visceral burns first on this WOE (versus others) because of the specific metabolic process of low carbing. Did you see the progress pics I posted the other day? I don't want to spam another thread. It was only a total loss of 14 pounds but I went from looking 7 months pregnant to just a little lumpy...0
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Belly fat can be either visceral or subcutaneous (likely both). If it hangs in folds, it's mostly subcutaneous.
Visceral fat is a subset of ectopic fat -- fat in places it doesn't really belong. All ectopic fat seems to be associated with health risks, which is why it's of interest to researchers.
Several studies have found that LC diets reduce visceral fat more than other diets. Here's one at random:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15331203?dopt=Abstract
I don't know if anyone has published a theory about why this is, but I have my own. When carbs are high, they get converted to fat by the liver. Some of that fat gets stored directly in and around the liver. When the process is reversed, and the liver is starved of carbs and needs to partially oxidize fat to make ketones, perhaps it first uses fat in the closest proximity -- in and around the liver.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »I was made to understand that the visceral burns first on this WOE (versus others) because of the specific metabolic process of low carbing. Did you see the progress pics I posted the other day? I don't want to spam another thread. It was only a total loss of 14 pounds but I went from looking 7 months pregnant to just a little lumpy...
I got to know a little more about internal fat from my internist
I had fatty liver, and associated pains. He eventually helped me start my weight loss journey
And as a huge benefit there has never been a hint of fatty liver pain since starting weight loss on lower carb eating
I agree LC does something to visceral fat
It has to. I am down to 32 waist pants and that is just amazing to me. More like unbelievable. But the Dr is not surprised.
LC is not magical. But I think there may be some things that happen when we get fat adapted for fuel and do long bouts of exercise. At a point that visceral fat is getting burnt
This weekend I plan another long intense cardio bike trip burning 1700-2000 calories. I know that is a new thing and a distinct slimming of my torso had been a recent development
Maybe it is related.
I agree with Wab. I would like to see if there are any studies
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Belly fat can be either visceral or subcutaneous (likely both). If it hangs in folds, it's mostly subcutaneous.
Yes, there is some subcutaneous, I can tell because it is definitely sitting on top of the muscles. When I tense the muscles I can poke or pinch and feel that top layer of fat. But then still, the whole stomach and abdomen is protruding even when tense so underneath the muscle there is something causing it to push out.
@Knit, yes I did see the pics, really noticeable difference.
@professionalHobbyist - I'm not doing much exercise at the present time, so the lost inches isn't recomp due to exercise.
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Remember too, that women are genetically geared to hold onto some abdominal fat. This is for survival of the species, so that women can procreate and survive, even in times of famine. It is genetically programmed, so that tends to be the very last fat most women lose.0
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Yes
We need you to keep us going!
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Yes, I'm not talking about going to some unrealistically low body fat %, especially at my age, some belly fat would be expected. I'm happy with the progress, just wanting to understand better what is going on.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Remember too, that women are genetically geared to hold onto some abdominal fat. This is for survival of the species, so that women can procreate and survive, even in times of famine. It is genetically programmed, so that tends to be the very last fat most women lose.
Great..... and just when I come to terms with everything else and start celebrating being a woman, I get one more thing to knock it upside down!
That's okay, LOL. I still beat my husband in Call of Duty.
Joking aside, I lose everywhere else first normally, so I can agree with this. Tummy is always the last to go.
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Well you could be a guy and deal with the no booty syndrome
We typically lose any body fat in the back pockets and have nothing in back to hold our pants up
I guess we all have our challenges
I have that inch to pinch on my flanks but at least it does not hang over the belt now!0 -
professionalHobbyist wrote: »Well you could be a guy and deal with the no booty syndrome
Some women have that problem too, hence the popularity of Bret Contreras workouts, but I'm not one of them. lol.0 -
I'm not one of the cool kids I guess...
I don't know who Bret Contreras is..
But I got a trainer about 9 months ago that get me on kettle bell swings and stiff leg deadlifts
Magic happened!
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Bret Contreras, author of "Strong Curves: A Woman’s Guide to Building a Better Butt and Body"
http://bretcontreras.com/about-me/0 -
I'm afraid of losing my butt since I've got a perfect one; so, I'll be looking into Bret for preventative care for that. Otherwise, bumping for research too even if they are scientific. 0 -
professionalHobbyist wrote: »Yes
We need you to keep us going!
Why couldn't it have been left to the men. I like seahorses for that very reason. 0 -
My trainer is a woman that teaches a boot camp.
And since women work their booty often, she has helped me out lots.
Ironic0 -
Belly fat can be either visceral or subcutaneous (likely both). If it hangs in folds, it's mostly subcutaneous.
Visceral fat is a subset of ectopic fat -- fat in places it doesn't really belong. All ectopic fat seems to be associated with health risks, which is why it's of interest to researchers.
Several studies have found that LC diets reduce visceral fat more than other diets. Here's one at random:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15331203?dopt=Abstract
I don't know if anyone has published a theory about why this is, but I have my own. When carbs are high, they get converted to fat by the liver. Some of that fat gets stored directly in and around the liver. When the process is reversed, and the liver is starved of carbs and needs to partially oxidize fat to make ketones, perhaps it first uses fat in the closest proximity -- in and around the liver.
That's an interesting theory. It makes sense to me.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Remember too, that women are genetically geared to hold onto some abdominal fat. This is for survival of the species, so that women can procreate and survive, even in times of famine. It is genetically programmed, so that tends to be the very last fat most women lose.
I find it to be the opposite with me, but i may be an exception. I tend to find my belly & waist fat goes fastest, but my thigh fat is unbelievably sticky.
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I lost from my back first, then waist, but the belly (below waist) area has been slower moving. I am a pear shape, and normally struggle to get my hip measurement down. It's down 4 inches since I started this WOE. My belly measurement is down 1 inch. For me, that makes me more proportionate. My shoulders are the only area that really looks more muscularly developed so far.0
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Looks like a very comprehensive review of visceral fat here:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/12
Random tidbits:
In general, VAT accounts for up to 20 percent of total fat in men and 5–8 percent in women.
Regular exercise can selectively reduce VAT with minimal change in weight
A solution to reducing the ectopic fat, as well as VAT, burden would be to enhance its oxidation in nonadipose tissues, e.g., liver, pancreas, and skeletal muscle. This will push the system toward below the CVATT and improve insulin sensitivity. In their review, Westman et al cite many studies that have consistently shown that low-carbohydrate/high-fat diets consumed for more than seven days induce powerful metabolic adaptations to enhance fat oxidation
Recently, Silvestre et al showed that compared to an energy-restricted low-fat diet, a short-term, very low-carbohydrate diet was associated with greater weight and fat loss with an apparent preferential loss of central fat
Too much good stuff to list -- worth a read if you're a science geek.
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Wab
Thanks buddy
You bring the goods brother!
This is the basis of the whole bicycle experiment. Eat low carb, fast, then do a long cardio level workout forcing my body to source fat for fuel.
I think you have found the silver bullet. If I lose this last 10 pounds on the strategy I owe you a pack of thick cut bacon!
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Mmmm, bacon.
Read the paper before you get too excited. They basically say that visceral fat is reduced in the early stages (when you lose the first 10% of body weight), but after that (i.e., after you become insulin sensitive), the fat loss is more evenly distributed.
FWIW, I'm trying essentially the same approach as you are. I'm down to about 20% BF, and most of it seems to be hanging out around the belly, but it is SLOWLY being reduced with exercise and low-carbing. The best part is that I'm not really trying to lose weight anymore -- it's still adjusting to my reduced appetite.0 -
The other great problem for us 'women over a certain age' is the reduction in estrogen causes a redistribution of body fat from thighs and hips to belly. The addition of excess cortisol from the hormone imbalance also hits us. There are a lot of us 'golden oldies' struggling with getting rid of belly fat Im afraid. The most comprehensive read I found explaining it is http://cortisolconnection.com/ch4_1.php
If you find any magic formula or plan...please share! Lol. There will be quite a few ladies who will be eternally grateful...including me! 0 -
the only place where i want lots of fat is in my mouth.. 0
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jumanajane wrote: »The other great problem for us 'women over a certain age' is the reduction in estrogen causes a redistribution of body fat from thighs and hips to belly. The addition of excess cortisol from the hormone imbalance also hits us. There are a lot of us 'golden oldies' struggling with getting rid of belly fat Im afraid. The most comprehensive read I found explaining it is http://cortisolconnection.com/ch4_1.php
If you find any magic formula or plan...please share! Lol. There will be quite a few ladies who will be eternally grateful...including me!
Yes, I've always been one to store it on the belly but it is a lot worse now.0 -
Intermittent Fasting, IMO. I have detailed my methods and protocols on this board ad nauseam already. So not gonna repeat it. I've lost a lot more from belly than all other spots, according to measurements. I don't recall exactly, think it was somewhere around 108 cm at start, it's now 73 cm. However, this is my N=1. YMMV. If you have questions, you can pm me.
I think there are very few if any studies comparing different diet protocols to tummy fat lost. Most focus on mean lbs lost. Most don't even separate water weight from LBM.
You do pose an interesting question, that researchers perhaps should pay more attention to, since the link between visceral fat and detrimental health has been shown to be high.0 -
@Foamroller - Do you do the Bulletproof fast or a water fast? For how many hours? And do you IF every day?
Ive started IFing with 1 BPC. I wasnt keen on Bulletproof fasting at 1st as i did struggle with hunger initially, but now im getting accustomed to much lower calories in the morning (im naturally hungriest at breakfast time) im actually starting to quite like it. I had a 600 calorie solid breakfast of bacon, fried eggs & a flax bun this morning and, delicious as it was, i was actually no more satiated or energetic than when i just have my 230 cal BPC. In fact, i think i feel MORE energetic when i IF (with BPC).
Im fearful of a water fast though - thats hardcore! Do you think water fasts have more benefits (particularly improved weight-loss results) than bulletproof fasts?
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Coconutmummy. I do eating window every day. Start eat between 2-5 pm. Sometimes later, sometimes sooner. Don't sweat the hours. Until then NO EATING. Only drink water coffee, vitamins, fiber.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but BPC breaks fasting. Calorically. Meaning your body gets busy metabolizing the hwc, co, butter. Meaning you suspend any burning from STORED fat to newly ingested caloric intake.
David Asprey is a good salesman...
I suggest use BPC or other drinkable calories only if you're low in fats OR as a tool to transition into IF or just because you enjoy it/helps adhere. It doesn't matter if it's only 200 or 600 bpc calories. That's still like...a non-chewable breakfast. And, no, if there is any «fatburning effects» at all, that would be the co and probably not in any meaningful amounts to counter the caloric value.
If you want, coconutty you can add me and creep my diary. I lost weight from Sep 2014 to sometime in Nov.0 -
Thanks @Foamroller . Ive sent you a friend's request.
That's disappointing to hear. Dave Asprey states that BPC keeps you in a fasted state and maximizes fat burning. Very disappointing indeed.
However, i would say that even if this is the case, BPC has benefited me in a couple of ways: a) it has allowed me to lower my calories at breakfast from 350-500, to 238; b) it aides me going through lunch without eating any calories at all; c) like you mentioned, it is helping me transition towards a 'proper' fast.
Ive always been a breakfast eater - i historically wake up super hungry in the mornings - and so i really struggled even getting used to BPC. Initially i had to add a raw egg or two to try to quell hunger, but even that didnt get me past lunch. Now i can go all day until dinner many times on just the 1 238 calorie BPC (no HWC, just 1 tbsp MCT OIl & 1 tbsp kerrygold butter), so its a big improvement, but i dont know if i'll ever be 'strong' enough to water fast all day, regularly.
Doesnt water fasting slow down your metabolism? Im borderline hypothyroid and prone to a really sluggish metabolism, so would water fasting put my body in starvation mode and make it hold on to fat for dear life? Thats always at the back of my mind. I figure the few fat calories in a BPC would help prevent this and keep my metabolism kicking over?
The other things that have been bothering me about fasting, are these:
When you have a small eating window on IF, let's say a 2-3 hr window, is it not likely to cause weight-gain eating all your days' calories in such a short time? How does you body utilise all that energy all at once? Doesnt it encourage some of that energy to be stored as fat?
And, on similar lines, if you consume your whole days' protein in a 2-3 hr window (mine is 90g protein for example), how can your body utilise all this protein for growth and repair all at once? I read that the body can only absorb a certain amount of protein at one sitting, and if you go over that it is turned into glucose. Obviously that would be disastrous for ketoers. Is this something viable that i should be concerned about? Im consuming 90g over the course of maybe 1.5hrs as i have to start training 1.5hrs after dinner so i have to get all my food down me fast so it can settle before i train, then its shower and bed. Am i really feeding my muscles successfully with all this protein in such a short time?0
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