I spoke too soon...

CoconuttyMummy

I'm struggling again

I thought i had this all worked out, but today was baad.

Sorry for the long post but please could someone take a look and advise me where im going wrong?

I water fasted yesterday for the 1st time, for 22hrs, and felt shockingly good - a bit hungry in the morning but it subsided to almost elation and a surprise burst of energy. I broke my fast with dinner, at the usual time of 6pm, ate my whole 1100 cals within the hour (meat & spinach for dinner, followed by a protein shake made with HWC for 'dessert'). I allowed my dinner to settle as usual for 1.5hrs and then started weight-training at the usual time of 8.30pm. I was still full from eating my whole 1100 cals only 1.5 hrs previously, but i completed my 1 hours weight-lifting nicely, and went straight to bed. I woke up this morning and i weighed my lightest weight, highest muscle, lowest fat. GREAT!

So, i figured id try the same again today. FAIL! I managed until about 2pm without eating (so i managed a 19 hr water fast, not bad), but then hunger hit harrrrd. Not just a slight rumble - i really did need to eat. So i had 2 hard-boiled eggs, was still hungry, had 1 slice ham, was still hungry, and ended up back in the fridge 3 more times for 3 separate sticks of celery with Franks Hot Sauce. (The celery upped my carbs more than id like, but at that point id planned my dinner and evening creamy protein shake that i always have, and i didnt have calories left, so it was all i could think of to eat that was very low-cal and would give me something to munch on to hopefully get me through to dinner - i wont be eating 3 sticks celery in 1 day again... those carbs could have been much better spent im sure). Anyway, i hoped that would do it, but i stayed hungry and started feeling bad in myself. I thought "hey, maybe its my electrolytes", so i had a cup of stock with 1 tsp potassium powder in it (id had my magnesium earlier in the day). Within 15 minutes of drinking the potassium-stock i started with stomach cramps, then my stomach blew up to the size of a 6 month pregnancy, i had a number 2 bathroom sprint, and then i started being violently sick for the next hour. Fun times.
By the time my OH came in from work at 5pm i was too sick to cook, so he had to make dinner. I was ravenous, even with tummy ache and sickness, so i had my 670 calorie dinner of lamb chops with 1 cup wilted spinach with 1 tsp butter. I felt immediately better, not sick anymore, but my stomach was still bloated badly. I still felt hungry though, but maybe i hadnt given it enough time to settle, so i greedily guzzled my 1 scoop protein shake with 2 tbsp HWC that i have every night for 'dessert'. I have to do my weight-training at night - its the only time i can fit it in - so after dinner & my protein shake dessert finishes at 7pm my ritual is to veg out on the sofa and watch a movie or doze off whilst my dinner digests and rev up some energy to start training heavy an hour and a half after i stop eating. Id hoped this would be enough time for my days' food to digest, and ive been managing for the last couple of weeks with this eating and training regime, (albeit i do still feel full when i start to train and realise its not ideal, but i was coping and couldnt think of another way round it). So tonight i go to the sofa with my full pregnant belly and realise i feel uncomfortably full. I gave it the usual 1.5hrs to settle and still felt exactly the same - stodged, bloated, heavy, lethargic, tired. I just wanted to sleep off all that food. I started to get ready to try to train but realised pretty fast that i wasnt up to it - i felt like id just had a huge meal and the thought of lifting weights made me feel sick. I didnt feel energised from all the recent food - it just zapped all my energy whilst my body was attempting to digest it.
I was so upset and frustrated with myself. My main goal is a serious body recomp - i want LOTS of gorgeous lean muscle and not much fat. Weight-training is my route to the shape i want. If my eating habits stop me training i will never achieve my goal. I am so so so mad at myself that ive had to miss my workout because i feel like a big fat, full, slow blob with no energy to even lift the weights let alone push them! Ive had a cry and just come straight to bed. My stomach still looks like a ive swallowed a bowling ball & feels like ive swallowed concrete (and its now 9.47pm so thats 2 hrs 47 mins after finishing eating). Its the worst feeling going to bed without training at all. I just couldnt do it feeling like this. Ive wasted a day with no progress - in fact probably the scale will go up tomorrow b/c i ate enough for my train.

I dont know what to do!

IFing seemed like the answer to my dreams. It meant i had enough calories left to have a proper dinner and 'dessert' with my family (i look forward to my creamy protein shake ALL day). And it appeared to be helping me out of my plateau. It made lowering my overall daily calories to 1100 easier, my macros were looking good.. BUT it appears my eating window is conflicting with my training times.

I HAVE to workout at night - i have no option. And i HAVE to workout - missing sessions like this evening cant happen again.

My OH doesnt get home until 5-5.30pm. Usually i have dinner ready by 6pm and like i say, finish eating by 7pm, to give myself an hr and a half to digest all the food, before training at 8.30pm for an hour. Then its my sons bedtime (and mine).

I dont know how i can plan this any differently? Has anyone got any suggestions?

How long should one really leave between eating a full meal and starting a heavy weight-lifting workout? Im guessing 1.5hrs isnt enough?

Does anyone else eat dinner before training?

I feel like ideally i should eat dinner after training, but im so hungry by the time OH comes home (and so is he and my son) because ive been fasting all day, or had very few calories, and i dont feel like i would have enough energy to train hard after 22-23hrs of low to no calories, so we get dinner out of the way asap and push training as late as possible to try to fit it all in.

Im also wondering if the TYPE of foods im eating prior to training are causing me these performance issues? Like, should i be avoiding fats immediately before lifting? Theyre slow digesting, arent they? If so, how the heck would that work with me being keto? How could i have a low fat dinner, when i have a small eating window, and still keep my macros ketonic?

Argghh! I feel like im so close yet so far. What do i dooooo?

deksgrl

I would suggest not doing the fasting on back to back days and see how that works out. Go back to eating the way you normally were tomorrow for a couple of days and see if that evens out.

Also, you weight train every day for an hour? Are you doing splits or full body? Typically rest days are needed. If you are doing full body then you should do that every other day. The magic is in the muscle repair.

KnitOrMiss

I find that after a fast day, even if I eat all my calories, the next day, I cannot fast. I'm starvin' like Marvin. And those are my higher calorie days.

Honestly, you may need to up your calories to build some muscle before you can burn off your remaining fat. Now that you have far fewer fat stores to work with, your recomp may have to take a different path than you are expecting. I think reddit's ketogains is what I hear most about. I don't know about doing the strength training after so long a fast, but I've heard tons of folks here doing it after fasting overnight and in the morning, so I don't know what to tell you there...

Sounds, too, like you may have stretched your stomach some the first day so the second day your body was dancing for joy over the idea of more food or something. And I will retain water and blow up like that when my sodium is too LOW, but not too high... So all folks are different.

Hope you feel better.

werdnek

also protein after the workout to maintain muscles mass- this was told to me by a fitnesstrainer

minties82

1100 calories? I think you need to eat more.

toadqueen

When you broke your fast and ate 1100 calories were you hungry for all that or did you just want it? When I break a long water fast, I find I cannot eat more than 300-500 calories the first day and I space that over a few hours.

I also find it harder to fast, eat, fast as KnitOrMiss posted without a longer period of eating between fasts. I can go days of water fasting but once I break it I have to wait days to begin again.

You are also almost at your goal weight and petite. 1100 calories is a lot to digest at once sitting. The late night dairy may have been a factor.

I hope you feel better soon too!

CoconuttyMummy

deksgrl wrote: »

I would suggest not doing the fasting on back to back days and see how that works out. Go back to eating the way you normally were tomorrow for a couple of days and see if that evens out.

Also, you weight train every day for an hour? Are you doing splits or full body? Typically rest days are needed. If you are doing full body then you should do that every other day. The magic is in the muscle repair.

You know, ive noticed that when i fast, the next day im always hungrier. When i was doing Bulletproof Fasting i could only go through to dinner every other day, and the following day i caved in at lunch (and never felt that great all day, unlike the previous day). Its weird - its like clockwork. I thought it was just because i was busier every other day, but ive had 2 busy days in a row and i still fell flat with the IFing today. So i think you're right. IFing every day isnt making my body happy.

I try to train every night, yup. It keeps me in the habit of exercising (im naturally very lazy and unmotivated, and i find when i rest i lose momentum and its harder to get the impetus to train the next day). I have a 7 day program, but i allow myself 1 random rest night if/when i really need it, and i just miss that one workout and skip to the next the following day (unless its legs night - i CANT miss legs b/c theyre my weak point, so i would do my leg workout the following night. Tonight i missed chest, back and shoulders. )

Yup, its a split program im doing: Heavy Legs 2x week, Biceps, Triceps & Abs 2x week, Chest, Back & Shoulder 2x week, and the remaining 1 night i do a DVD, like P90X, 30 Day Shred, 21 Day Fix etc.

I know training 6-7 days a week is quite full-on, particularly as 1 month ago i was doing no exercise whatsoever, but i dont feel like im training to full capacity yet - my strength and endurance are way down, and i dont get as much out of each training session as i used to (when i was fitter a few years ago), so i feel like i need to increase my output somehow - daily workouts, split program, 1 day a week cardio, was meant to make up for lack of desired intensity at each workout (until my performance improves, at least).

I want to sculpt my body and im putting my heart and soul into it. I just dont feel like my WOE and way of training are getting along atm.

CoconuttyMummy

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

I find that after a fast day, even if I eat all my calories, the next day, I cannot fast. I'm starvin' like Marvin. And those are my higher calorie days.

Honestly, you may need to up your calories to build some muscle before you can burn off your remaining fat. Now that you have far fewer fat stores to work with, your recomp may have to take a different path than you are expecting. I think reddit's ketogains is what I hear most about. I don't know about doing the strength training after so long a fast, but I've heard tons of folks here doing it after fasting overnight and in the morning, so I don't know what to tell you there...

Sounds, too, like you may have stretched your stomach some the first day so the second day your body was dancing for joy over the idea of more food or something. And I will retain water and blow up like that when my sodium is too LOW, but not too high... So all folks are different.

Hope you feel better.

Ta, Carly.

Its reassuring that it's not just me that feels ravenous the day after a fast (even when ive eaten my full days' calories that day, post fast).

I thought most people were IFing every day (or at least every week day)? Are alternate day fasts as beneficial for weight-loss and metabolism improvements as daily IFing? I wouldnt want to put effort into a WOE that has no real merit or benefits.

mwyvr

Do you have any estimate of the caloric burn from your training? I don't do the sorts of things you do so can't imagine what your body needs are to support that training.

But I'll say this - if the burn is non-trivial, why are you fasting? That makes zero sense to me.

I do non-trivial (700 calories or more) work outs five to seven days a week. I do not generally eat 100% of my maximum calories back because I'm burning fat running at sub maximum output well within my aerobic capacity.

There's no way on earth I could do this if I was fasting for 22 hours before hand. I'll go for a long run (90 minutes plus) fasted but that simply means before I've had breakfast! (but not before coffee, black)

22 hours of fasting is going to put my body off for more than the day of fast, guaranteed.

Maybe it's simplistic but if you are doing any non-trivial (caloric burn wise) training, you need to be fuelled properly. A certain component of that fuel can come from body stores but not all of it.

EDIT: What I'm really trying to get at is that you might be demanding too much of your body and it is speaking up, loudly, to get your attention. That's a good thing!

CoconuttyMummy

werdnek wrote: »

also protein after the workout to maintain muscles mass- this was told to me by a fitnesstrainer

Ive read this too, but i thought the protein would still be in my system having it 1.5hrs before training and i was trying to narrow my eating window to the hour before training, to ensure my IF fasting period for the next day is as long as possible.

Perhaps youre right. Maybe i should just have dinner before my workout and save the protein shake until afterwards? It would still work out to a 4-5 hour eating window on IF days. Would alternate day 19:5 IFs have any noticeable benefits for weight-loss and metabolism improvements? - i had such good results with the 22.5:1.5 hr IF i did, im wondering if you need to go over 18-19 hrs of fasting before it becomes powerful enough to have a noticeable effect? (primarily weight-loss). Im wondering this because ive done lots of 18-19hr Bulletproof Fasts and didnt see the scale down like i did with the 22.5 hr water fast yesterday. It could be a coincidence, or maybe Bulletproof Fasts arent as effective as water fasts, but im wondering if the weight-loss was attributed to going over my usual 19hrs IF time. Are longer fasts of 20+ hrs more beneficial for weight-loss?

DittoDan

Ditch the potassium. IF doesn't cause swollen stomachs. Celery is almost the lowest carb food you can eat. Has celery ever upset your stomach previously? Sounds like you had an allergic reaction to something you ate. And forget working out on days you fast. That's my recommendations.

Dan the Man from Michigan

kirkor

What's your height & weight?
1100 seems low, especially with regular weight training.
And regardless of how steep a deficit that 1100 calories puts you, there's no way I'd be wasting *any* of those calories on a protein shake as opposed to solid food.

deksgrl

Hmm. Personally, I have had great results with a full body workout 3x a week, then active rest days in between. I tend to be more hungry the day after lifting, so I eat a bit more that day, and then a bit less on the other days.

I know you want results like yesterday, but trying all of these conflicting strategies all at once might not be the best way to do that?

DietPrada

Too much exercise not enough food. Fasting and working out don't go hand in hand, you're doing it the hard way. I'm sure if I did exactly what you did, I would feel absolutely rubbish also.

CoconuttyMummy

minties82 wrote: »

1100 calories? I think you need to eat more.

My cals are set to 1200 as thats the lowest MFP will go, but invariably i try to eat 1000-1100 calories, to ensure a 400-500 calorie deficit, for weight-loss. Im finding 1000 calories quite hard to achieve consistently, not only because of hunger, but because it makes it hard for me to reach my protein goal without messing up my macros. Im not sure how many grams of protein OVER grams of fat you can go before the ratios become non-Ketonic?

Im only 5ft tall and currently 127 pounds, with only around 9 pounds to end goal (albeit with a total body recomp!), so my caloric needs reflect my small-ish size, i suppose. Its unfortunate for me but i have a TDEE of 1450 and a BMR of under 1200, so my body simply doesnt need as much fuel as i was giving it, apparently - hence why i was fat, despite eating what would be considered smallish portions of reasonably healthy foods (from a SAD viewpoint), i was obviously eating too much of it.

I kept stalling (well not true stalling, because it wasnt a full month; more like 3 weeks) and i started losing/gaining the same 4 pounds, when i was aiming for 1200 cals (although the odd day crept up to 1350 sometimes, i mainly kept around 1200). I tried upping my calories, but i gained weight every day i ate 1300+ calories, so after a few days i dropped them back down, but tried aiming for 1000-1100 and this evacuated the few pounds id gained whilst trying higher calories, and seemed to kickstart slow but steady losses again at last. I did keep testing the waters and upped my calories back up slightly to 1300-1400 ish and the scale would stall (or gain) again. When i dropped back to 1100 or slightly lower calories the slow weight loss would usually resume. I tried this a few times and same outcome.

Its frustrating because i agree 1100 calories sure is low, but it boils down to calories in vs calories out, and my energy expenditure is much lower than that of someone taller, heavier and more active than me. I think i just have to accept that. Ive read on BB.com several male bodybuilders eating 1000 calories or less on a cutting diet. I know its not sustainable for them, but im a lot smaller, so if they can manage on that many cals and still train, i should definitely be able to, i suppose.

CoconuttyMummy

toadqueen wrote: »

When you broke your fast and ate 1100 calories were you hungry for all that or did you just want it? When I break a long water fast, I find I cannot eat more than 300-500 calories the first day and I space that over a few hours.

I also find it harder to fast, eat, fast as KnitOrMiss posted without a longer period of eating between fasts. I can go days of water fasting but once I break it I have to wait days to begin again.

You are also almost at your goal weight and petite. 1100 calories is a lot to digest at once sitting. The late night dairy may have been a factor.

I hope you feel better soon too!

Thanks @Toadqueen .

When i broke my water fast yesterday i could have gone quite a bit longer without eating. I was starting to become ready to eat, but not ravenous, or even very hungry. Once i sat down to the food i enjoyed my ~600 calorie dinner of 1.5 chicken thighs fried in coconut oil with 1 cup spinach. I felt great after and satisfied in a physical fullness way. But ive got extremely attached to my protein shake with cream, and look forward to it all day, so i wanted that for my dessert - wanted but didnt need - but then i thought that because i was doing an hour of heavy weight-lifting shortly that i might need more energy in my system than the 600 calories daily total id just eaten. This sounds silly now - im sure 600 calories for the day (at that point) would probably be enough to fuel a weight-training session? (especially as there would be more calories to come afterwards if needed to refuel)? And i also worried that i wasnt anywhere near my protein macro without the protein shake, so i had it for those reasons, but not because i was actually hungry that day.

If i could eat less calories on the odd water fast day, when i feel like it and my hunger allows, then i would have a few calories in the bank for hungrier days like today, so i could have eaten a bit more of something earlier in the day before i got to feeling ill.
But im very concerned about going too far below my protein requirement, as muscle gain, or at least preservation, is my ultimate goal.
If i was to ensure i got close to my protein goal, my fats would obviously be a lot lower in percentage, and im not sure how low of a fat to protein ratio you can go before it will kick you out of ketosis?

professionalHobbyist

Oh Coconut...

You sound overtrained a bit

I have been doing body composition for a while now. Lose fat, add muscle, lean out some, add more muscle.

What has worked for me is keeping protein high to repair muscles and eat at maintenance levels on workout days. Plenty of sleep and walking or easy cardio the next day with a maximum of 500 calories deficit.

I do relatively heavy compound exercises. Good dead lifts hit your entire body almost and require protein and sleep.

I would ask you to consider chilling on the fasting at all while lifting hard. You must take in protein to rebuild those muscles, otherwise you are just tearing them down with nothing to repair them. Fat won't repair muscles.

Be careful. You could get yourself run down and be out of the exercise game for a week or two to get back to full sail.

Dragonwolf

http://femfusionfitness.com/my-path-to-adrenal-fatigue-and-my-recovery-so-far/
http://www.norcalsc.com/you-can-do-it-all-or-can-you/
http://everydaypaleo.com/paleo-talk-episode-20/
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

And what @EbonyDahlia said. You're not eating enough to fuel your workouts. The amount you're eating is relatively aggressive (TDEE - ~20%) for your (rough) stats when figuring for sedentary, which you are anything but. You need to eat more to fuel your workouts or you will eventually burn out.

More is not better. A larger deficit with more exercise will not get you the results you want faster. In fact, it will likely hinder you, because your body will interpret it more as a famine or other crisis situation and responds with elevated cortisol and other hormone fluctuations that switches the body into a sort of "conservation mode," where it will be more reluctant to build muscle (which is metabolically expensive) and will start down-regulating processes in order to conserve body fat for as long as it can (it will do things like lower your core body temperature and make you less tolerant to cold, you'll get to the point where you tire more easily, have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning, have slower recovery times from those workouts, and see less progress; in fact, this large deficit and lots of exercise is probably why you're finding your output to be sub-par and "not getting as much out of the workouts as you should").

Drop the DVD and make that a rest day. If you want to do something to keep in the habit of doing something, then go for a leisurely walk. Rest days are more important than active days, because it's the rest days in which the body repairs (and builds muscle). Also, drop your workouts to no more than about 30 minutes (plus warm-up/cool-down). Look to compound lifts as your bread and butter, and you don't have to spend so much time with isolation stuff. This will do three things -- 1. decrease the time needed to work out; 2. increase the amount of muscle fibers that are stimulated; 3. provide more functional strength and better muscle balance (which avoids acute injuries and chronic dysfunctions that cause more problems down the line).

https://www.wellbridge.com/fit-like-that/give-it-a-rest-its-ok-to-skip-your-workout
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/behar2.htm
http://www.theactivetimes.com/why-rest-days-are-just-important-working-out
http://steveedwardsfitness.com/importance-rest-days-recovery-periods/
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/rest-your-body-grow-your-muscles
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark55.htm

I think it would be a good idea to see a counselor that specializes in compulsive/anxiety/eating disorders. Your comments are riddled with wording and phrases that put way too much pressure on yourself and seem very much to the point that it's dysfunctional, and you're layering not two, but three routines that can be rough on their own, especially when done wrong, and combining them all within about a month of each other, without allowing time to adapt.

im naturally very lazy and unmotivated

i CANT miss legs b/c theyre my weak point,

(The celery upped my carbs more than id like...) i wont be eating 3 sticks celery in 1 day again

Anyway, i hoped that would do it, but i stayed hungry and started feeling bad in myself.

I was so upset and frustrated with myself.

I am so so so mad at myself that ive had to miss my workout because i feel like a big fat, full, slow blob with no energy to even lift the weights let alone push them! Ive had a cry and just come straight to bed.

Ive wasted a day with no progress - in fact probably the scale will go up tomorrow b/c i ate enough for my train.

And i HAVE to workout - missing sessions like this evening cant happen again.

Tell me something -- if your OH said these kinds of things about himself, what would your response be? Would you tell him "you're right, you're a fat, lazy slob, and a lazy slob for not working out despite being sick"? You probably wouldn't, right? In fact, your first reaction is probably "no, that's mean/abusive/uncalled for," not? So why are you doing it to yourself?

You did an experiment, it backfired and you got sick. There is nothing wrong with that. You did not fail because of it. You learned a valuable piece of information about yourself. Yeah, you had to forego your workout tonight. But guess what? It really isn't the end of the world. Don't feel like it tomorrow, but for no reason? Suck it up then. Right now, rest is the best thing for you.

Fun fact -- some elite athletes who know their bodies and listen to them will drop out of a competition at the start if they sense even the slightest sign that something's off and they're risking injury if they go through with the competition. If they can do that, so can you.

Dragonwolf

i gained weight every day i ate 1300+ calories

Not fat gain, period. You don't gain fat overnight off an extra 100-200 calories, especially when that's still a deficit for you.

I kept stalling (well not true stalling, because it wasnt a full month; more like 3 weeks)

Then you're being impatient. Go read http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10067269/your-scale-is-a-lying-liarpants?new=1 again.

1100 calories sure is low, but it boils down to calories in vs calories out, and my energy expenditure is much lower than that of someone taller, heavier and more active than me. I think i just have to accept that. Ive read on BB.com several male bodybuilders eating 1000 calories or less on a cutting diet

1100 calories is only sufficient for you if you sat on your butt and did nothing all day. You don't.

I know a number of bodybuilders who also will spend a week or so eating literally nothing but protein -- skinless chicken breasts, egg whites, protein powder. That's pretty much it. It's called the World's Toughest Diet. And yes, it's a bad idea and horribly unsutainable. It sucks all around. Just because the guys do it, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Also, the people that do things like that are a lot more experienced than you. Stop diving head first into the deep end until you learn to swim better.

CoconuttyMummy

Hey, @professionalHobbyist , thanks for your reply. Ive been following your success and your new training regime with interest. You really are doing great.

When you say that you keep your protein high, what does that equate to, approximately, in macro percentages (and/or grams per pound of bw or lean bw?).

Im not sure if my protein is considered high or not - Im set at 30%, which is 90g. I usually hit mid 80s, as im always trying to keep my fat macros about equal in grams to my protein, to stay in ketosis. Id like to eat more protein, but im not sure how many grams protein you can go over your fat grams, before the proportions cease being Ketonic?

I do feel a bit overtrained and underfed, lol, but not sure how else to achieve my goals in a timely fashion! I want this so bad and its going at a snails pace as it is, so i darent go easier on myself. I just need to work out a way to enhance my performance and get my nutrition (and nutrient timings?) right to sustain the heavy lifting.

In your opinion is a big meal 1.5hrs prior to training a bad idea?
What would be the minimum time you would give for digestion before training on a full stomach?
Are there any foods or food groups you would avoid in your pre-train (or post-train) meal?
Can you fuel heavy 1 hr lifting sessions, fasted, or on very low calories?

And also, does it matter if your calories and protein are much lower than usual on the occasional water fast day, or would even 1 day of insufficient protein & fuel affect muscle growth/retention negatively?

Sorry for all the Qs Hobbyist, i just figure you're more knowledgeable about this than I

Anyone else please feel free to chime in too if you can - i need all the help i can get i think!

CoconuttyMummy

Nearing training time, should i just eat a ~600 calorie dinner, 1.5hrs prior to working out, and save my protein shake with HWC for after my train? That would be a lot less energy to need to digest in a short space of time, and i wouldnt feel so ridiculously full whilst i lift, but would i have enough energy to fuel my workout?

And if i saved my protein shake until after training (9-10pm at night) would i still be able to add the 2 tbsp HWC or would it be a bad idea to consume that much fat after weight-lifting and just before going to bed?

Oh and one more question for anyone who can answer......

Is there a maximum amount of protein your body can utilise in one sitting? I read that your body can only absorb so much protein in one go, and any surplus will be wasted and/or turn to fat. Is this true? If so, how much is the maximum protein usable by the body, in what period of time?
Obviously whilst IFing we have a small window to eat, Is 85-90g protein in a 1 to 5 hour eating window going to be fully utilised by the body in one go, for muscle growth and repair? Or for this purpose would it be optimum to eat your protein allotment in 2-3 smaller portions, such as 30g protein 3x a day?

nvmomketo

I have no advice but wanted to say thanks for putting this out there. Newbies like me can learn a lot.
Good luck getting it sorted.

CoconuttyMummy

Ive learnt a lot in the past couple of months, mainly from this community, but also some books, other websites etc, but there is so much information to take in i think i'll be continuing to learn for a long time.
Having friends here to set you on track when you need it is a blessing

toadqueen

@DittoDan - why ditch the potassium? I think I missed something along the way.

I can't wait until I can exercise again. This thread is getting me pumped! I'm doing ankle rolls in support.

Take care of yourself Coconutty

CoconuttyMummy

mwyvr wrote: »

Do you have any estimate of the caloric burn from your training? I don't do the sorts of things you do so can't imagine what your body needs are to support that training.

But I'll say this - if the burn is non-trivial, why are you fasting? That makes zero sense to me.

I do non-trivial (700 calories or more) work outs five to seven days a week. I do not generally eat 100% of my maximum calories back because I'm burning fat running at sub maximum output well within my aerobic capacity.

There's no way on earth I could do this if I was fasting for 22 hours before hand. I'll go for a long run (90 minutes plus) fasted but that simply means before I've had breakfast! (but not before coffee, black)

22 hours of fasting is going to put my body off for more than the day of fast, guaranteed.

Maybe it's simplistic but if you are doing any non-trivial (caloric burn wise) training, you need to be fuelled properly. A certain component of that fuel can come from body stores but not all of it.

EDIT: What I'm really trying to get at is that you might be demanding too much of your body and it is speaking up, loudly, to get your attention. That's a good thing!

The calories burned from my hour long weight-training sessions would be, i think, trivial. Maybe 150? Im not totally sure, because my heart rate monitor/calorie counter watch hasnt arrived yet (and would that work on weight training anyway?) but its strength training so i think the calorie burn is minimal.

CoconuttyMummy

DittoDan wrote: »

Ditch the potassium. IF doesn't cause swollen stomachs. Celery is almost the lowest carb food you can eat. Has celery ever upset your stomach previously? Sounds like you had an allergic reaction to something you ate. And forget working out on days you fast. That's my recommendations.

Dan the Man from Michigan

Really, ditch the potassium? But everyone warns you when you keto that you need to increase potassium (and sodium/magnesium) to keep your electrolytes up? TMI, but im constantly peeing still, often every 20-30 mins!, so i thought it was sensible that maybe i was low. I think i did overdo the dosage though. It said on the pack 1/8th tsp was ~350mg potassium. I took a whole tsp. - that's around 2.8g potassium in one dose. Is that silly high? oops

I do agree with you, though, Dan, it does seem to have been the potassium-stock drink that upset my stomach and made me sick and bloated. I thought it 'could' be the fasting upsetting my tummy, but if you say that is not likely, then the obvious culprit would be taking too much potassium on an empty-ish stomach.

Are you sure about ditching the potassium completely though? Surely ketoers need to continue supplementing a little bit to ensure we meet our needs?

CoconuttyMummy

kirkor wrote: »

What's your height & weight?
1100 seems low, especially with regular weight training.
And regardless of how steep a deficit that 1100 calories puts you, there's no way I'd be wasting *any* of those calories on a protein shake as opposed to solid food.

5ft tall
127 pounds.

My TDEE is apparently 1450 so 1100 cals is just a 350 calorie deficit.

I looooove my protein shake. Its the only sweet thing i consume now and with the addition of HWC it feels like a decadent dessert to me now... plus it helps me meet my protein macros.

Do you think the protein shake with HWC is hampering my progress or performance?

professionalHobbyist

Coconut

I will share a bit more about me personally

I had a general practitioner and an internal medicine Dr helping me reverse diabetes. I also talked to the practice nutritionist

I think Wab will or others versed in Keto dieting will need to chime in.

I eat a gram of protein per pound basically. I have about 168 pounds of muscle mass on average thru the week average.

I get into a Keto state by burning out my blood sugar. I do eat less fat than you do and a bit more carbs. More like 60 a day from vegetables.

I have a very specific workout routine. Two days of eating 2200 or so calories, those days are lifting days. I have 1 scoop of protein a half hour before and then after working out. Many believe that is the window to feed a muscle. That fed muscle repairs as you sleep and are not calorie deprived. It isn't that complicated.

The cardio workout days are like today. 1600 or so calories, lots of meat and some fat, coconut oil, then exercise kind of long and fairl hard on an empty stomach. Cardio level work. I will have a protein shake to repair my legs after that work

Day off.

That is it, a 2 day cycle.

Do the two day cycle again.

Weekend Ride long 30 mile plus day fasted. Eat back a good many calories but still in deficit . Day off!

Repeat cycle.

I do the two day cycle twice and one long ride day with two days off.
I only am dieting 4 days.

I think you are very excited to lose weight! And I am very happy to cheer you on and share the joy of every pound you lose! You are a very sweet person and I enjoy your comments.

I do think you could maybe ease up on the aggressive goals you have. Overtraining is a vicious cycle. You lose muscle and get exercise flu. So for that month you may lose nothing!! If you settle in on just losing a pound a week or 3 pounds a month... You will get there and you will fee better.

You have to remember you are not me. I'm an ex Navy Amphibious Warfare guy. I ran the obstacle course a couple times a week. Swam a mile fully dressed with a gun. You gotta be Coconut and enjoy that. Please don't hurt yourself trying too hard.

Ride from today. 20 miles. Calorie burn for fat adaption.

CoconuttyMummy

deksgrl wrote: »

Hmm. Personally, I have had great results with a full body workout 3x a week, then active rest days in between. I tend to be more hungry the day after lifting, so I eat a bit more that day, and then a bit less on the other days.

I know you want results like yesterday, but trying all of these conflicting strategies all at once might not be the best way to do that?

I've been doing 2 exercises per muscle, 5 sets of 12 reps each. I find this easier to fit in when doing a split routine, i think. Im not very fast or efficient when im training yet, my split W/Os take me 1 hr, so i feel like a full body workout would take me 'til midnight to complete!

Which strategies do you think im doing that are conflicting? Do you mean fasting and weight-lifting? I didnt realise you werent meant to do exercise when IFing?

auntstephie321

@CoconuttyMummy please listen to @Dragonwolf excellent advice, there is a lot if info there that I think we'll be beneficial to you.

I know how much you want to see your results, we all want you to succeed as well.

I feel you are putting added stress on your body by putting it through so much at once. There is a lot of info on mfp about body recomp and it all says to eat at or near maintenance. By eating at the deficit you are at, you are not properly fueling your body and likely causing damage.

You can not build muscle while not fueling properly as your body is not being given what it needs to repair itself.

Please be careful, we are all here to help support you and wish you all the success you are looking for, just give it some more time.

"Rome wasn't built in a day"

greenautumn17

RE Potassium. If I remember my nutrition class right, we get potassium in meat and dairy, as well as leafy greens and other veggies. Supplementation is not necessary if you are eating enough meat.
Secondly, I learned the hard way that I cannot supplement with potassium because I am on medicine for HBP. I had a horrible reaction to supplements a few weeks ago.
Please do not just assume that because someone else on this site is doing something that it is necessarily the right thing for you to do. Men and women are different, and each person has different needs as well. What works for one person may not work for another.