Should I get a 2nd opinion??
farmers_daughter
Posts: 1,632 Member
Ok so I finally got into a new doctor, and we're already off to a rough start. I went in and described all of my symptoms, and they did labwork, which I should get my $50 back, because I was right, I'm completely normal, with one exception. My vitamin D level is super low. Should be 40 and I'm a 16.
So after discussing in depth she pulls out this "Adrenal Fatigue" syndrome. Which I had to do some reasearch on, because I had heard of it, but never really knew what it was.
Secondly she says due to my birthcontrol (nuvaring for many moons) I have an exceptionally low progesterone level. So the ring get's the fling. (I'm not with anyone at the moment anyways)
But after I read about this Adrenal Fatigue, I'm basically a whiny little b**** who is like everyone else who is "tired" (tired until I puke) and it's not a medically accepted diagnosis. soooooooo..... I'm sitting here thinking what the hell? Now what?
Progesterone can be fixed with a natural plant based cream. - Still don't understand that, but whatever.
Adrenal Fatigue - I'm not about to accept it because I've read so much that really un-validates it (if that's a word) but I'm not imagining what I'm feeling, and anyone else who feels this, dude I'm not gonna say you're faking it. I'm not imagining my hair falling out into the tub every single time, clogging the drain....you can't fake that stuff.
Anyone else have this, believe it, have facts for it? I dunno what to think really.
So after discussing in depth she pulls out this "Adrenal Fatigue" syndrome. Which I had to do some reasearch on, because I had heard of it, but never really knew what it was.
Secondly she says due to my birthcontrol (nuvaring for many moons) I have an exceptionally low progesterone level. So the ring get's the fling. (I'm not with anyone at the moment anyways)
But after I read about this Adrenal Fatigue, I'm basically a whiny little b**** who is like everyone else who is "tired" (tired until I puke) and it's not a medically accepted diagnosis. soooooooo..... I'm sitting here thinking what the hell? Now what?
Progesterone can be fixed with a natural plant based cream. - Still don't understand that, but whatever.
Adrenal Fatigue - I'm not about to accept it because I've read so much that really un-validates it (if that's a word) but I'm not imagining what I'm feeling, and anyone else who feels this, dude I'm not gonna say you're faking it. I'm not imagining my hair falling out into the tub every single time, clogging the drain....you can't fake that stuff.
Anyone else have this, believe it, have facts for it? I dunno what to think really.
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I was seeing an orthomolecular doctor who said I had adrenel fatigue after living many years with untreated autoimmune issues. My hormones were on the low side of things so I went along and started taking corticosteroids and fludricortisone (sp?) for postural hypotension. This was start of gaining 20 lbs.
Yes it boosted my energy some but I didn't want to be on steroids for life so I weaned myself off the corticosteroids, and stopped the fludricortisone. I did feel more tired during that weaning period too.
I still don't know if taking steroids for a year helped. My hormone levels are better now but I think the steroids played a part in my weight gain. Maybe it healed me up faster but I have nothing to compare to. LOL KWIM?
Do your research with what treatments you would be comfortable with if you do indeed have adrenal fatigue. I know the medical community hasn't embraced adrenal fatigue as fact yet, but it is often behind on the times anyways. They haven't embraced LCHF yet either.
BTW, I had some pretty massive hair loss from celiac disease and hashimot's thyroiditis. They also caused fatigue. Have you been checked for autoimmune problems?0 -
There has to be some reason for the symptoms you are experiencing. Just because it is not commonly recognized doesn't mean it's not a thing.
That said, Vitamin D deficiency can cause fatigue and other symptoms. I would take the Vitamin D supplements and see if that helps. The hair loss could be unrelated?0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »I know the medical community hasn't embraced adrenal fatigue as fact yet, but it is often behind on the times anyways. They haven't embraced LCHF yet either.
Touche dude....you are so right. I've got on order a book she wanted me to read, so I'm hoping there's more factual information in there.
The hard part is going to come when I get the bill. And they say "Sorry bout your luck - pay up for the whole thing sucka!"
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Yep, I'll keep up on the Vit D, a friend of mine had the same thing when she was diagnosed celiac. She said it took every bit of a year to get built back up, but she no longer had that "lazy, heavy" feel. Im not too worried about the hair loss yet, as I have a *kitten* ton of hair yet, but still clogs up the drain every time!
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Have you had any nervous system testing? And how's your blood pressure? I have a condition that makes me vomit and be tired all the ******* time. It's being mitigated by a drug that raises my blood pressure to "textbook perfect", I was in the low end of "normal" but it was too low for me.0
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whats your iron level ?0
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My blood pressure is naturally picture perfect 120/80 (no bragging here just it's always been). Unless they do nervous testing via lab work, I have not had any. Ugh sweetea, I can't imagine!
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farmers_daughter wrote: »My blood pressure is naturally picture perfect 120/80 (no bragging here just it's always been). Unless they do nervous testing via lab work, I have not had any. Ugh sweetea, I can't imagine!
You might want to look into dysautonomia. The few other people I've met with it were all given similar diagnoses of "whiny baby with no pain tolerance/stressed/tired and exaggerating". The only test for it is to rule everything else out, or a blood test that will tell you if it's familial.
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Vitamin D deficiency is a big deal, especially when you are that low. It causes fatigue, depression, and a host of other issues. Mine was really low and my doctor put me on a 50,000 mg dose for 8 weeks. Major, major difference. The effects of the first pill was like taking speed-I felt so good and so energetic that I could not sit still in my office! I also stopped having migraines when my levels elevated. I am shocked she didn't give you mega doses of Vitamin D (I'm not a doctor, just based on what I experienced with low levels.) I would definitely go elsewhere for a second opinion.0
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couchpotato39 - really? I kinda took the Vitamin D as a "not a big deal" granted it was her nurse that relayed the info, and from what I've read on Google, but still. Hmm.... I've been taking 10,000iu daily, and I haven't noticed a big difference yet, nothing like what you explained but then again that's a big dose!
I however haven't had a headache big enough for me to grab for the ibproufen since Friday! (at least I don't recall) that's a success!!! 0 -
The best book I've seen on it so far is from Nora Gedgaudas. The concept of adrenal fatigue makes sense to me, as you don't suddenly just wake up one day with Geave's or Addison's.0
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farmers_daughter wrote: »couchpotato39 - really? I kinda took the Vitamin D as a "not a big deal" granted it was her nurse that relayed the info, and from what I've read on Google, but still. Hmm.... I've been taking 10,000iu daily, and I haven't noticed a big difference yet, nothing like what you explained but then again that's a big dose! I however haven't had a headache big enough for me to grab for the ibproufen since Friday! (at least I don't recall) that's a success!!!
Okay, first of all, ALWAYS GET A SECOND OPINION. Doctors are not infallible. To give an example, my regular gyno told me I needed a radical hysterectomy and and bladder sling and all kinds of other stuff. I was about 35 at the time, and wasn't sure i was done having kids so I flipped out and started asking around. Got a referral to a specialist. They said it would never be necessary for me to be FORCED to have surgery with my currently symptoms to a much worse level, and there were many treatments we could try first.... Made all the difference in my life. And even then, something the second opinion didn't think to mention is now my primary treatment option.
All that being said, having low VItamin D levels is horrible. Usually low B12 and low magnesium go along with this (in my general research), but the latter two are not often tested unless requested. Also, if you are taking pills for the vitamin D, ditch it. Get the liquid drops and add them to your coffee, water, or other drink of choice. Literally when you are that deficient, those drops are better than an energy drink on steroids! B12 is another that is similar. And magnesium is the root of so many things. Vitamin D3 deficiency could actually be contributing to your hormone issues.
That all being said, I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and took progesterone cream for years. Every month it made me feel full on pregnant which did my head in because my now ex-husband and I were trying desperately at the time for another child. And I mean the tender tissues, the constant nausea, and the whole nine. EVERY MONTH. But, remarkably, my progesterone levels never improved.
I could not get my cortisol and adrenals tested properly at the time to confirm, but the whole endocrine and hormonal systems are linked. Whatever your body needs to survive, it will steal another form and convert it. My body had no adrenaline (I could get startled horror movie style and my heartbeat wouldn't even increase) or cortisol from what i can tell. Therefore, since progesterone is the least "necessary for life" hormone, everything else that needed more stole the progesterone and converted it for other uses. So I was on crazy high levels of the cream, making me miserable and insane, and it still didn't help anything.
Come to find out all these years later that I'm hypothyroid, despite the fact that it took years and years to show up on the proper tests, because the low end of normal was already super low for my NORMAL, and so by the time I was low on the "normal" chart, it was scary normal and causing lots of other issues, not the least of which was hair falling out! Even then, medication got this level to go back up, but my symptoms didn't ease off until I added another supplement.
I also have finally be confirmed as having PCOS, which is a female hormonal imbalance syndrome that has literally dozens upon dozens of possible symptoms. Some ladies have one, some have ten, some have all of them, but almost no one's is exactly the same (I've never EVER heard of any being identical, but I"m sure there are similar cases). PCOS also tends to camouflage and mask nearly all normal bloodwork test results.
Since you're being told adrenal fatigue and low progesterone and all that, I'd go for a second opinion, and not just to any old doctor, I would get an endocrinologist who specializes in female issues if you can. Good luck!0 -
Vitamin D has to be taken in conjunction with something else to help it properly absorb. I know my drops are D3 and K2 combined, but I don't think it is K2. I think the D3 and calcium help each other absorb, as well as magnesium fits in there somewhere, too, but I don't recall. I do know that I was told that without having something else when you take the D3 to take something else with it to help absorption (I know it's fat soluble, if I remember right, so maybe that??)...0
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Oh sh*tballs KnitOrMiss....this sound complicated and makes me tired just thinking of it. UGGGGGGG.....lol0
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farmers_daughter wrote: »Oh sh*tballs KnitOrMiss....this sound complicated and makes me tired just thinking of it. UGGGGGGG.....lol
Short version: yes, get a second opinion. From a qualified endocrinologist. Dump your entire pile of symptoms on him/her. Ask for a full, across the board panel to help get to the root of things.
If at that point, he/she suggests supplements, ask for an action plan for what needs to go together and what needs to be taken separately. If s/he doesn't have specific guidance, ask your pharmacist or ask here - many of these folks have done a huge amount of research!0 -
farmers_daughter wrote: »couchpotato39 - really? I kinda took the Vitamin D as a "not a big deal" granted it was her nurse that relayed the info, and from what I've read on Google, but still. Hmm.... I've been taking 10,000iu daily, and I haven't noticed a big difference yet, nothing like what you explained but then again that's a big dose! I however haven't had a headache big enough for me to grab for the ibproufen since Friday! (at least I don't recall) that's a success!!!
I had low Vit D (in the 20's in July 2013 and 2014) that I have been working to raise. I am hoping to be at 60 when I go next month for blood work. Under 30 brings many health risks. Under 20 I will let you Google vs putting it in a post.
My goal is 60-80 levels based on the research I have read as it relates to cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc prevention. Getting to 40 seems to reduce the chances of be hospitalized and really lowers the chance of premature death from health related causes.
By the way for Vit D to help get calcium into the bones vs the arteries Vit K2 is required from research I have found. Do read up on the subject and there are some medical conventions on Youtube that cover the subject the best I remembered. I am taking twice what you are and will increase or decrease based on my lab work in a couple weeks.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I had low Vit D (in the 20's in July 2013 and 2014) that I have been working to raise. I am hoping to be at 60 when I go next month for blood work. Under 30 brings many health risks. Under 20 I will let you Google vs putting it in a post.
My goal is 60-80 levels based on the research I have read as it relates to cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc prevention. Getting to 40 seems to reduce the chances of be hospitalized and really lowers the chance of premature death from health related causes.
By the way for Vit D to help get calcium into the bones vs the arteries Vit K2 is required from research I have found. Do read up on the subject and there are some medical conventions on Youtube that cover the subject the best I remembered. I am taking twice what you are and will increase or decrease based on my lab work in a couple weeks.
Gale,
25-Hydroxy Vitamin D Total (matches my straight D3 results numbers). Range is considered 30-100 for healthy. This is the history on my levels that I have easily accessible.
Date Result
24-Apr-15 58 ng/mL
30-Oct-14 46 ng/mL
23-Apr-14 46 ng/mL
09-Jul-12 32 ng/mL
21-Jun-11 24 ng/mL
Somewhere since this winter, I had started taking 10,000 IU, and I started having some weird headaches and stuff from what I determined to be too high of D3 without K2. My new liquid drops for my D3 have K2 in them, which I love, so I'm taking 5 drops x 1,200 ID of D3 and 50 mcg of K2. I love knowing that I'm helping strengthen my bones.
Much like you, I'm still wanting to get that level up to the middle of the range, so I'm looking forward to new bloodwork in October, especially considering my calcium levels were low, too. This should definitely help that out, too, given that I put the drops in my LOADED tea, which includes heavy cream and eggs.
Calcium levels, for reference.
Calcium Level Reference Range (was 8.8-10.5, so don't know if changed with RDA or weight class, but is: 8.5-10.1). Either way, I've consistently been at the lowest end of the scale since I started losing weight in 2010. I think I stopped milk completely in 2012 or 2013... Weight loss seems to drop this level, perhaps because I was neglecting nutrients? Now that I have the combo supplement, I fully expect this to go back up!
Date Result
20-Apr-15 8.1 MG/DL
27-Oct-14 8.7 MG/DL
16-May-14 8.8 MG/DL
21-Apr-14 8.7 MG/DL
12-Mar-13 8.3 MG/DL
09-Jul-12 9.6 MG/DL
21-Jun-11 8.2 MG/DL
30-Jan-09 9.2 MG/DL
I'm really glad you posted the ranges for reducing health marker risks!
Thanks,
Carly0 -
Throwing this out there because I'm having a hard time finding a good answer on google. If you take a good multi-vitamin, does that suffice for the K2 to get the calcium to your bones, as opposed to finding k2 seperately?0
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farmers_daughter wrote: »Throwing this out there because I'm having a hard time finding a good answer on google. If you take a good multi-vitamin, does that suffice for the K2 to get the calcium to your bones, as opposed to finding k2 seperately?
If your multi has K2, it's probably okay, but honestly, I've never seen a multi WITH K2. Can you send us a link to the nutritional data? I think it is @GaleHawkins who did the most research on K2 and could likely tell us there are multiple forms of it.
I do know that the body is supposed to be able to convert K1 to K2, but it is notoriously inefficient. I've been told the only natural source of K2 is grassfed butter, so I don't know how that would be in a standard type multi!0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Vitamin D has to be taken in conjunction with something else to help it properly absorb. I know my drops are D3 and K2 combined, but I don't think it is K2. I think the D3 and calcium help each other absorb, as well as magnesium fits in there somewhere, too, but I don't recall. I do know that I was told that without having something else when you take the D3 to take something else with it to help absorption (I know it's fat soluble, if I remember right, so maybe that??)...
I always have my morning coffee right after I take my morning pills (which include 5,000iu D3), because there is fat in my coffee and D3 be fat soluble.
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I saw video last night that said be careful with calcium. If you take too much calcium and not enough other vitamins it can impact the arteries and not reach the bones. I believe magnesium was on thing you need to accomplish this0
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I'd get a second opinion as well, but take the Vitamin D3 first and see if you improve with your levels rising. And be forewarned, it can take months to get them up. Your level is very low.
I've had chronic Vit D deficiency for years. Even with the prescription strength, my level didn't go up after 6 months. I currently take 5,000IU per day with a fatty meal (well, all my meals are fatty).
Until my doctor told me to get some some without sunscreen for 10-15 minutes per day, my levels never rose up. Once I did that for a few weeks, we saw them get up to 32. I did/do feel better. My main symptom was depression.
Have you ever been tested for mono? That can cause debilitating fatigue. I'm not sure on the hair loss symptom though. Most places you read will tell you thyroid.0 -
Yes vegaspack I think the K2 helps with that tho from what i've read. So far anyways....
sljohnson I'm very controlled (or you could call limited) about my sun exposure I have ALOT of cancer in my family, and my dad had to have a chemo cream on his face, watching that happen...that did it for me. *Heebie Jeebies* I am trying to get a little more actual sun though, it just makes me nervous I know it's all in my head though.
I'm not sure about the mono - isn't that only a temporary thing though? I ask becuase I don't know. Yeah everything I read leads towards thyroid, but apparently mine's fine.0 -
At one time fibromyalgia was not accepted either. It was thought to be a psychological problem akin to hypochondria. But now they know it is a real condition in the nervous system.
But there is plenty of literature on links between processed food and hormone imbalance problems. SO there is a good chance that there is a non drug related resolution.
Getting off the pill is a good start. [After our second child I volunteered to get snipped so my wife could get off the pill and not have another surgery since child 2 was a c-section. ]0 -
Just because your thyroid is in "standard ranges" does not me that it's "okay." Mine has to test at mid to high level of the range for me to feel human. Luckily I found an endocrinologist who understands this! It took almost ten years after symptoms showed up for the problem to show up on bloodwork.0
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Yes adrenal fatigue is real. Second opinions are always great, especially if you are uncomfortable with the first one, but its impressive that an MD is mentioning adrenal fatigue.
Stress itself can wreak havoc on your hormone's and bodies can rebel in a wide variety of ways.
I'm actually impressed this doctor looked at hormone's and detailed bloodwork and didn't just prescribe "a pill" to mask the symptoms, but instead seems to be trying to find and treat the cause... which is a win in my book. The bloodwork was not a waste of time, because you are not "normal" if you are suffering hair loss, exhaustion and other symptoms which prompted you to go to the doctor in first place.
Questioning is excellent. Dismissing is possibly dangerous.0 -
First, RUN to a naturopathic physician for that second opinion. Secondly, adrenal fatigue is real. Naturopath can do tests that quantify what you need. Also, vitamin D and D3 are different. And although skin cancer is real, a bit of sun per day likely will not hurt unless you are on certain photo-sensitizing drugs. The standard chem panel tests only a couple of types of thyroid but there are multiple ones, if you ask. Also thyroid anti-bodies. As well as there exists a difference between circulating thyroid vs. bio-available thyroid (one that can actually enter into the cells). So, yeah, really complicated. Look into liver healing using SAM-e--- Source Naturals is one I'd recommend. Stuff at Costco (think it's Nature-Made) is absolute crap. School of hard knocks experience. Email if desired.0
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www.stopthethyroidmadness.com might help with some of the thyroid questions, too. I can't remember how much actual data there was there though.0
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For a quick reply on what I have learned about Vit K2 in recent months. One can not over dose on it from what I can read. Overdosing on Vit D3 (hitting levels like 200) is hard but as @KnitOrMiss mentioned without taking Vit K2 taking a lot off Vit D3 can lead to one not feeling as well long before overdosing on Vit D3. Under doctor care 115 units of Vit D3 daily is the most I have read about and that was to stop MS. It is on Youtube and the complete English text version is in the comments if you want the info faster. The audio is in Spanish I think with English subtitles. He is a USA trained MD practicing in Brazil I think.
@farmers_daughter after my research I started the wife and I on the LifeExtension brand of Super K with Advanced K2 Complex. I am sure there are others but when the research was fresh on my mind it looked like the best option to me and the price has really come down a lot lately with 90 softgels being in the $15-$20 range. I take one each night and morning. I like it because it has Vit K1 but mainly it has two types of Vit K2 and there is no agreement on which type is the best.
Read what @vegaspack posted about calcium and magnesium and dig deeper with Google on that critical subject. Assuming at age 64 I have calcium in the arteries I am working hopeful with vit D3 and K2 to move in out and into my bones and teeth. It worked in some animal studies and since there seems to be no way to overdose on K other than a little $$$ I see no downside to taking Vit K2 to help get Vit D3 up and calcium moved to the right places in my body at my age.
When I find the Super K mentioned above for around $15 I buy 5-10 bottles. I have never found it like at Walgreens, etc and I had rather have it than bullets if society were to fail. 0 -
I got the liquid vitamin D3 + K2 at my local small pharmacy (not a big name place) since they do compounding, they carry a lot of less common items. The brand is NuMedica, and I like it because I don't always absorb things well if they aren't liquid... It's easy to dump in my tea, which has calcium from the heavy cream, too, so whammy all the way home! Thanks Gale for the updates. Awesome info. 0
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