KETO misunderstood so bad!!!
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EbonyDahlia wrote: »chaoticdreams wrote: »I think the medical community is catching up bit by bit though. I couldn't get my husband to go back on LC no matter how I begged, pleaded, and showed him all the good things about it. It took his Dr. telling him if he wanted to live past his 40's he had to do something and that LC was his best bet. This after 5 years ago same Dr. criticizing the both of us on the Atkins diet we were doing then.
He won't read any of the books himself and I pretty much have to answer a dozen or so, "Can I have this?' questions per day, but that's fine. He's sticking with it and doing well. I can't wait till they redo his blood tests again in a few months.
Lol you poor thing, you have a man child too? Does he make a pouty face when you tell him "no, you can't have that, it's got too many carbs"?
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I honestly have to wonder..in this last 80+ years when EVERYONE in the USA is educated for free from age 6, for 12 years-- that so many ignorant ideas exist..statistically MOST don't ever read another book after high school..and only 10% of the population EVER buys books..(the used book biz plummeted, Amazon gets most of what's left) we are a small reading public..
this is why "flash-in-the-pan books" like romance novels, diet, or tell-alls are like 'sound bites" people grab a tiny bit of info..and think they know it all…like Workout guy in my OP..
I observed the older veterans guys from my weight loss group have NO basic info on calories, carbs, etc. I can see why the RD slowly introduces info, which they mis-remember..and why introducing a NEW idea, new science is not possible. She was trained on the FDA 'healthy plate'..that is all we will hear, period.
So even tho there is a lot of science, it is hardly known in the general public…I totally MISSED the reintro of Adkin's diet in 2002…and Low Carb as a 'movement'…and I pay attention!!! ..still I didn't notice, wasn't looking for a 'diet', and was still under the impression fat was bad for me…so I can see why it will take a LONNNNNNG time for even basic awareness. (especially when MDs and medical staff/RD's cut off discussion…they are seen as knowing the 'truth'. Hah.
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I am always amazed by people that tell me that I won't be able to sustain a diet like keto. I have family members some of which are nurses and they constantly tell me that LCHF is not healthy nor sustainable. I'm getting pretty good at tuning them out.
Hubby is a why do you buy that cream cheese, peanut butter, herb cheese spread, fish spread, whatever, if you can't have crackers, bagel, bread to go with it kind of guy. He's finally starting to come around because he sees what I've accomplished with the changes I've made - he still cringes when we're at a steak restaurant and I ask for butter, butter, and extra butter on the side. Not to mention the look I get from the waiter - as if to say geez, you're fat enough you don't need butter. Most times I can ignore it, but sometimes I can get a little snarky.
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I am always amazed by people that tell me that I won't be able to sustain a diet like keto. I have family members some of which are nurses and they constantly tell me that LCHF is not healthy nor sustainable. I'm getting pretty good at tuning them out.
Hubby is a why do you buy that cream cheese, peanut butter, herb cheese spread, fish spread, whatever, if you can't have crackers, bagel, bread to go with it kind of guy. He's finally starting to come around because he sees what I've accomplished with the changes I've made - he still cringes when we're at a steak restaurant and I ask for butter, butter, and extra butter on the side. Not to mention the look I get from the waiter - as if to say geez, you're fat enough you don't need butter. Most times I can ignore it, but sometimes I can get a little snarky.
I hear you! I get those looks too! Better watch it. You're affecting your tip.0 -
KETOGENICGURL wrote: »So even tho there is a lot of science, it is hardly known in the general public…I totally MISSED the reintro of Adkin's diet in 2002…and Low Carb as a 'movement'…and I pay attention!!! ..still I didn't notice, wasn't looking for a 'diet', and was still under the impression fat was bad for me…so I can see why it will take a LONNNNNNG time for even basic awareness. (especially when MDs and medical staff/RD's cut off discussion…they are seen as knowing the 'truth'. Hah.
There was a low carb movement? LOL I missed that too, and I read a few non fiction (usually health) books per month.
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I am always amazed by people that tell me that I won't be able to sustain a diet like keto. I have family members some of which are nurses and they constantly tell me that LCHF is not healthy nor sustainable. I'm getting pretty good at tuning them out.
Hubby is a why do you buy that cream cheese, peanut butter, herb cheese spread, fish spread, whatever, if you can't have crackers, bagel, bread to go with it kind of guy. He's finally starting to come around because he sees what I've accomplished with the changes I've made - he still cringes when we're at a steak restaurant and I ask for butter, butter, and extra butter on the side. Not to mention the look I get from the waiter - as if to say geez, you're fat enough you don't need butter. Most times I can ignore it, but sometimes I can get a little snarky.
What always amazes me is when people (especially doctors) tell me that I won't be able to sustain it. Uh...hello? I've been doing it to one degree or another for around 3 years now... Am I 100% perfect with it? No. It's my way of eating, not some diet where I'll beat myself up for a week if I stray from it. Besides, my body makes it very clear that I've "done wrong" when I eat stuff I shouldn't, so it's self-reinforcing. Unfortunately, people don't seem to grasp that concept. :ohwell:0 -
As an active reader of most everything except fiction Dragonwolf I find doctors, auto techs, teachers often are saying the same thing that they were taught in class or by experience 20-40 years ago.
Two rheumatologists got stressed out last Nov when I returned to the clinic to start Enbrel injections for my pain management when I told them 30 days prior I went off of most all forms of carbs and was heavy into coconut oil. They could not believe that it was managing my pain and dismissed me but said I could come back when I wanted what they offered.
Not very smart of me but I thought they would be pleased that I figured out how to dodge taking a very dangerous drug and to start healing my very sick body by eating foods that my body liked and ditching foods that the body shooted NO NO when eaten.
As one that does hold an earned OD degree I understand closed mindedness is a protective human trait. Doctors are under a huge amount of peer pressure also. The understanding that they can be put out of business by peers is well understood.
I swear many must be practicing off the info left by the last drug rep that was at their office.
One of the above rheumatologists mentioned above was from India and just finishing his medical degree. He said his family produced coconut oil for the market and he came to practice medicine in the USA because he could prescribe things like Enbrel in this country that was not even used due to cost in India.
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Let me play devil's advocate for the docs for a minute. Yes, I've been low carb roughly 18 months, and I've had several docs tell me "good job, you're losing weight, but Atkins is not sustainable" over and over. The reason they say that is so many ppl don't stick to it. And I think a huge part of that is our society is so procarb.
It's hard to find restaurants that have decent low carb food without hidden carbs. Every single thing you buy in the US with nutritional data defines normal as 300 carbs a day right on the packaging. Our entire dieting subculture is still relying on an outdated belief that fat makes you fat. It's prolly ten times (or more) easier to find "low fat" labeled items at the grocery store than "low carb" - even tho science is showing us sugar/carbs is the real enemy.
So, it's an uphill battle. On every front. Is it any wonder ppl get tired of fighting it and lapse? If you are standing up for low carb you are often standing out there alone. Eventually the science won't be able to be ignored.0 -
jessicatroberts wrote: »Let me play devil's advocate for the docs for a minute. Yes, I've been low carb roughly 18 months, and I've had several docs tell me "good job, you're losing weight, but Atkins is not sustainable" over and over. The reason they say that is so many ppl don't stick to it. And I think a huge part of that is our society is so procarb.
It's hard to find restaurants that have decent low carb food without hidden carbs. Every single thing you buy in the US with nutritional data defines normal as 300 carbs a day right on the packaging. Our entire dieting subculture is still relying on an outdated belief that fat makes you fat. It's prolly ten times (or more) easier to find "low fat" labeled items at the grocery store than "low carb" - even tho science is showing us sugar/carbs is the real enemy.
So, it's an uphill battle. On every front. Is it any wonder ppl get tired of fighting it and lapse? If you are standing up for low carb you are often standing out there alone. Eventually the science won't be able to be ignored.
Actually, I'd argue it's the inverse -- people don't stick to it, because they hear over and over and over that it's unsustainable. Tell someone often enough, from enough different directions, that they're going to fail and eventually they'll start to believe it.
There's certainly a learning curve to eating out, but it's really not that hard. Base your meals around grilled meat and grilled/steamed/raw non-starchy vegetables, and you'll do quite well, actually.
If people actually had some encouragement -- especially from their doctors -- then they probably wouldn't be so prone to lapsing.It's worth pointing out too that these alternative and nontraditional doctors almost never accept insurance and charge $300 an hour with follow up appointments, which last only 15 minutes, costing around $150. All diagnostic testing, labs and non traditional medication is also paid for out of pocket which cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Who can really afford that? This treatment is for the privileged, not the common folk.
These nontraditionalists practice alternative medicine for profit and they're making plenty of money. The well known ones have long waiting lists just to get an appointment. They live in the same neighborhoods, in the same big houses as traditional M.D.s and pay the full tuition to send their kids to the best schools. They offer something different but they're not exactly more altruistic in their business models.
I'm a nurse working in a very mainstream setting and it's my belief that the food eaten is the best predictor of health and disease that there is.
This....isn't really accurate...
Tests run through LabCorp, at least, are often covered under insurance (provided the insurance covers labs done through them), as long as they're prescribed by a licensed medical professional, regardless of who it is.
Also, the alternative/non-conventional medicine doctors spend far, far longer than 15 minutes with patients even at followups. Most spend half an hour or more, and the initial (non-followup) visits often spend an hour with their patients. Additionally, as long as the doctor is licensed in the state they're practicing in, their services can be covered by insurance, but you have to file the paperwork yourself. This is one of the keys to allowing them to spend 30-60 minutes with their patients. Even 15 minutes, though, is more than I've ever gotten with a conventional, non-specialist doctor, which has always averaged 7-10 minutes, at best.
Finally, the quality of care and attention to patient needs is often significantly higher in these offices, because the staff don't have to spend all of their time cramming as many patients into each day as humanly possible and dealing with the paperwork accordingly. This allows patients to stop/write/call in without appointments and ask questions if they have any.
Also, I don't think anyone said anything about altruism being higher among conventional vs non-conventional doctors. I've little doubt that the integrative doctor that my son sees lives in one of the $400k+ houses in one of the nicer neighborhoods here. You know what, though? He deserves it. Unlike the other two or three doctors my son has seen in his five years, the integrative one is the only one that's actually done more good than harm to him. The others have just pumped him full of antibiotics or, when they couldn't do that, just shrug their shoulders and basically tell me that I was crazy for insisting that something more was going on that was causing the issues we were seeing and I wanted more tests/investigation done. They didn't even so much as mention the idea of referring to a specialist (even when he really should have been referred to an ENT, especially the time when they put him on a different antibiotic, because it was too soon after the last one; unfortunately, it wasn't until the one after that that I found out about the ear infection referral rule of thumb, and after that one, he stopped having them altogether). That doesn't even get into the issues I've personally had with conventional doctors and trying to get more help than "join Weight Watchers."
Yes, I'm fortunate enough to have the money to make these kinds of fights and to not necessarily require insurance to pay for everything up front. The problem I have with the current system is that this shouldn't be a requirement for quality care. And yes, I consider not being decades behind a requirement for any professional I work with, especially when my life and my health are in their hands. I also expect them to be able to say "this is out of my league, here's a referral to someone who specializes in this," without me having to fight for it or go around them entirely.
The underlying problem isn't the doctors, though. For the most part, I do think most of them really do care. Their hands are tied by the system they're a part of, though. The system, itself, is broken.0 -
Finally facing my own real and near term death was required for me to embrace KETO eating lifestyle. I had the head knowledge for years but really was hooked on carbs and never thought it would be a major solution to my long term health problems. The kids had just turned 17 last Oct and since they are at risk of developing Ankylosing Spondylitis (AS) I did not want to die and leave them looking forward a life like mine. They now see me 50 pounds lighter and physically doing things they never saw me do just by cutting most carbs out of my diet. Where they do or do not get off of carbs at some point if needed is left up to them but they have the knowledge and my example at least.
I agree the underlying problem is not the doctors but the system itself.0 -
I am so happy for you @GaleHawkins !!!0
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Just saw this Study..ANOTHER FAILED premise…this was a High fat diet.. only it was high fat and moderate carb..so no wonder NOTHING good happened….60% fat (OK great) BUT 25% carbs?…which is 640 Calories for a man's 2500 calorie diet. nothing close to Low Carb at 5-10% of total.
SEE: "Liver fat accumulation in response to overfeeding with a high-fat diet: a comparison between South Asian and Caucasian men" in http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com
( and it had only 10 men in each group…teeny.0 -
KETOGENICGURL wrote: »Just saw this Study..ANOTHER FAILED premise…this was a High fat diet.. only it was high fat and moderate carb..so no wonder NOTHING good happened….60% fat (OK great) BUT 25% carbs?…which is 640 Calories for a man's 2500 calorie diet. nothing close to Low Carb at 5-10% of total.
SEE: "Liver fat accumulation in response to overfeeding with a high-fat diet: a comparison between South Asian and Caucasian men" in http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com
( and it had only 10 men in each group…teeny.
Do you think the results would be greatly different if the MACROS were less carb and more fat? 0.003 in four days of 50% over consumption of energy seems fairly realistic. Maybe I am not understanding a 50% above TEE number and maybe if the MACROS were adjusted the outcome would be different. Then again. . . they are just showing South Asians have a very slight propensity to store some of the excess consumption as liver fat versus Caucasians. IDK, seems to make sense. Where else does the body store excess energy?
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Terrapin--- fat is stored ALL OVER…..otherwise we;d have a huge liver ( and dome belly) and skinny legs.
if all they wanted was to see if fat gain to the liver was the same for both groups..then they succeeded..but if they tested a Low Carb along with High Fat to observe the liver then I am betting both groups would have lost any 'fatty liver' problems too…maybe S. Asians are different than anglos…
this study is just confusing on "WHY" most people will never be advised to eat high fat/carbs so they can GAIN...0 -
That IS a good one. Thanks.0 -
KETOGENICGURL wrote: »Terrapin--- fat is stored ALL OVER…..otherwise we;d have a huge liver ( and dome belly) and skinny legs.
if all they wanted was to see if fat gain to the liver was the same for both groups..then they succeeded..but if they tested a Low Carb along with High Fat to observe the liver then I am betting both groups would have lost any 'fatty liver' problems too…maybe S. Asians are different than anglos…
this study is just confusing on "WHY" most people will never be advised to eat high fat/carbs so they can GAIN...
Yes, I'm aware fat is stored all over. Do you wonder why the study was conducted or who paid for it? And as far as people not being advised to eat a high fat diet probably falls under the 'small steps, small changes, versus mammoth altering dietary change' then again. . . . .I sort of view this like the recommendation to lose weight slowly as you near goal and taking longer versus maintaining a substantial deficit and increasing the likelihood of regressing back to old habits.
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I work with doctors and really, the main concern is lawsuit and complaints to the licensing board. Lawsuits are the main concern. If a patient doesn't want what the doctor is offering (and it's limited what they offer, I know) - it has to be meticulously documented that the patient refused it and why. Same goes with nurses.
Most doctors and nurses aren't personally invested in debunking something that works, even if it's not what they're offering. If follow up tests show success in measurable terms, they're fine with it. They may not ask a lot of questions, because it's not their rodeo. But they're genuinely pleased when someone leaves the office or facility healthier rather than sicker. Which rarely happens.
When people get bad news, or the condition worsens or the agreed to treatment doesn't work, the finger pointing begins and it can get really ugly.
I am certain there are also people who nod their heads, accept the scripts, and go home and continue to do the very harmful things that put them into the situation for which they saw the doctor - and then complain that what the Dr recommended didn't work!
Then there are folks like my mother who like taking medications, and developing new problems so they can have something new to crow about (and get sympathy for, IMO) It's like a game of "I take more medications than you" syndrome. SMH. My goal is to get off my diabetes meds, while my mother's seems to be to get put ON Insulin!
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Hubby is a why do you buy that cream cheese, peanut butter, herb cheese spread, fish spread, whatever, if you can't have crackers, bagel, bread to go with it kind of guy. He's finally starting to come around because he sees what I've accomplished with the changes I've made - he still cringes when we're at a steak restaurant and I ask for butter, butter, and extra butter on the side. Not to mention the look I get from the waiter - as if to say geez, you're fat enough you don't need butter. Most times I can ignore it, but sometimes I can get a little snarky.
Hee heee "fat enough..." that's what I always think people are thinking about me too! As an aside, what DO you eat with spreads? I am missing having things that I used to "dip" pre keto.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-oP34xXFWM
