Lab Results?
m_puppy
Posts: 246 Member
Has anyone seen their lab results (cholesterol & glucose) go the opposite direction with this diet? Specifically those that were not big meat eaters prior to starting LCHF. I know some people have lost an exorbitant amount of weight and their numbers have improved. Awesome! But mine did not, err, improve. I did not expect them to improve but I didn't expect them to get worse, either. Interested in what other people have experienced to see if this happens or if maybe this is just a difference in age. I'm 30 pounds lighter than I was the last time I had blood work done but I also ate very little red meat and lots of vegetables at that time.
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My glucose didn't change much, went down a tiny bit, but my LDL went up. My trigs went down and HDL went up, but I know all kinds of things go wonky on bloodwork during "active weight loss." So if you aren't at a steady weight, depending on how bad, I wouldn't worry overly much, depending on comparisons. I posted my numbers a while back. I'll see if I can find them. Feel free to PM and we can compare if you want.0
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First test in years was Aug 2014 Second July 28,2015. Started VLC March 2015 weight loss since then has been 25 pounds on top of the 19 pounds I lost doing moderate low carb high fat. Doctor said he did not want to do the test for LDL particle size when asked.
Cholesterol 254 to 283
Direct LDL 157 to 191
HDL Cholesterol 36 to 50
Triglycerides 417 to 258
VLDL Cholesterol not available due to triglicerided over 400 and now 52 CHOL/HDL RATIO 7.1 to 5.7
Glucose 97 to 95
I have not seen the doctor yet but he noted on results he wants me to go on Statins. OH Hell NO I say. When I look at this I see improvement. This was a non fasting test and I have three eggs every morning. I am hoping when the next 45 pounds are gone making me at goal the results might read a little bit better and also hoping he will agree to test particle size. At this point he has no idea I have lost 44 pounds since I last saw him and maybe one more by the time I DO see him next week. I am on the edge of this happening.0 -
Gotta ask for them to test the large particle and small particle sizes. Vertical Auto Profile (VAP) test or the Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP) test. Without testing that, knowing if your cholesterol is high is next to useless, source: Fathead movie.
My doc has agreed to test me for them. If my doc said no, I'd say "bye".0 -
Dang I do not see Edit. I just wanted to add I am under 5 carbs a day. So 99% of my foods are meat eggs fish butter.0
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JessicaLCHF wrote: »Gotta ask for them to test the large particle and small particle sizes. Vertical Auto Profile (VAP) test or the Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP) test. Without testing that, knowing if your cholesterol is high is next to useless, source: Fathead movie.
My doc has agreed to test me for them. If my doc said no, I'd say "bye".
See, I needed to write down the specific tests I needed. I didn't actually see the doctor. I went in, waited an hour and then the nurse popped her head in to tell me he was stuck in the hospital and I could wait if I wanted. Then I said I needed some things and had to quick rattle them off and she put in the order. Seriously, I'm pretty sure had I said, "I'll also take Adderall and Xanax" she would have been like "ok! I put it in!" It was too on the spot for me to ask for the right tests. Maybe when I actually see him I can be more specific.
My results are not at all bad. I did not post them because I feel like I might get torn apart. They just aren't what they were prior to LCHF. I forgot to do the ratio though... going to do that now.0 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »Gotta ask for them to test the large particle and small particle sizes. Vertical Auto Profile (VAP) test or the Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP) test. Without testing that, knowing if your cholesterol is high is next to useless, source: Fathead movie.
My doc has agreed to test me for them. If my doc said no, I'd say "bye".
Thanks for this. I need to ask him again to do this. He is a so by the number book kind of guy and he is so young to be so closed minded. Oh well. I guess if he refuses to do it it does not matter because I am NOT taking his statins. I can be just as stubborn. I am feeling fantastic. Most of my thyroid issues have resolved. And I KNOW he is going to be shocked about my weight loss. His nurse transposed numbers on my weight last time I was there making me GAIN 20 pounds instead of losing 20. I did not know this had happened. So now he will really be surprised. Appointment is Aug 10.0 -
MissMaggieElizabeth wrote: »Dang I do not see Edit. I just wanted to add I am under 5 carbs a day. So 99% of my foods are meat eggs fish butter.
Move your pointer towards the upper right hand corner of your post. A gear will turn on click it and edit away. You have an hour after you post to make an edit.
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Thank you KenSmith. That is very helpful.0
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MissMaggieElizabeth wrote: »JessicaLCHF wrote: »Gotta ask for them to test the large particle and small particle sizes. Vertical Auto Profile (VAP) test or the Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP) test. Without testing that, knowing if your cholesterol is high is next to useless, source: Fathead movie.
My doc has agreed to test me for them. If my doc said no, I'd say "bye".
Thanks for this. I need to ask him again to do this. He is a so by the number book kind of guy and he is so young to be so closed minded. Oh well. I guess if he refuses to do it it does not matter because I am NOT taking his statins. I can be just as stubborn. I am feeling fantastic. Most of my thyroid issues have resolved. And I KNOW he is going to be shocked about my weight loss. His nurse transposed numbers on my weight last time I was there making me GAIN 20 pounds instead of losing 20. I did not know this had happened. So now he will really be surprised. Appointment is Aug 10.
There are labs and places where you can go and have this tested without insurance or with it in independent labs, depending on where you live. My latest lab work was to have an out of pocket of $600 AFTER insurance. I'm still waiting to see what is up with all that. But again, if you are actively losing weight, this test may show bad stuff too right now during the transition.
There were some fabulous videos and articles posted on the truth about cholesterol stuff and how there is ZERO PROVEN LINK to HEART DISEASE.... You need cholesterol to get glucose to your brain. Period. As long as my HDL is improving, my trigs are steady or up/down but a moderate amount (the ratio between these two is considered the most important ratio), I don't give a fig about my total numbers until I've maintained my weight without change for at least 6 months.
I'm hoping the links to those videos and articles are in the launch pad...0 -
I've read on other forums, maybe this one also, that as you lose weight those numbers can go up. When your weight stabilizes is the time to get your blood tests done. One of the more seasoned people on here can correct me if I'm wrong.0
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It's the triglycerides that matter. The gold standard for heart attack risk is the coronary artery calcium score. It is a CT scan of the heart.0
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So the fact my Trigs are under 100 is great, considering they were over 200 a couple years ago?0
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yes. See this http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/523.cfm talks about the cholesterol/triglyceride ratio
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Remember though, that half of the people that had a high cholesterol had normal cholesterol levels. Cholesterol has NEVER been shown to cause heart disease. the new thinking is that it is an inflammatory process cause by insulin resisitance.
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half of the people that had heart attacks had normal cholesterol
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I lost 22 lbs over 5 months. The final 4 months were on moderately low carb (~80-110 grams total carbs / day). The good news is that my A1C is now no longer in pre-T2D territory. However my LDL got worse. I've also read that LDL measurement is less meaningful while weight is decreasing. My doc said I could stay off statins for now, and re-evaluate after weight stabilizes.
A1C: From 5.8 to 5.4 (this is the reason I tried lowering my carbs)
Total Chol: From 230 to 275 (highest I've ever seen)
Trig: From 64 to 49 (my trigs have always been low. Lucky)
LDL: From 167 to 207 (worst I've ever seen)
HDL: From 50 to 58 (best I've seen in decades)
Total/HDL: From 4.6 to 4.70 -
Remember though, that half of the people that had a high cholesterol had normal cholesterol levels. Cholesterol has NEVER been shown to cause heart disease. the new thinking is that it is an inflammatory process cause by insulin resisitance.
Which puts me at higher risk. I actually watched one of the videos someone posted about this lately... I just wanted to understand more about it... Apparently, instead of being the result of other issues, it seems like my IR caused, amplified, or contributed to my PCOS, my hypothyoidism, my high blood pressure, my high-ish cholesterol, my obesity, my difficulties losing weight, my inability to feel full ever which lead me to never have true hunger signals, etc., etc., etc.... Headed to save article down now.0 -
Exactly, Knit. The treatment for insulin resistance is a LCHF diet. Check out dietdoctor.com
Have you watched Peter Attia on youtube or Tim Noakes? Very good.0 -
so when you see someone who is overweight--they are insulin resistant to some degree with too many carbs. It's the hormonal theory of obesity. the treatment is dietary LCHF.0
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Yes - insulin resistance seems to be the root of many evils. I really enjoyed watching & reading Dr. Jason Fung, both on dietdoctor.com and on Dr. Fung's site: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com. The take-home message from Dr. Fung is that sugar consumption is the primary cause of insulin resistance. T2 diabetes was almost unknown (up until ~20 years ago) in high carb consumption countries such as China & Japan - because of lack of sugar in the diet.
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yes. See this http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/523.cfm talks about the cholesterol/triglyceride ratio
Ha! I had read that article before...
So, to show you my numbers/calcs:
Total: 212
Trig: 96
HDL: 45
LDL-Calc: 148
LDL-Direct: 164
So HDL/Total ratio is 0.21, which is just below the ideal of 0.24 but nowhere near the danger zone of 0.10.
Trig/HDL ratio is 2.1333, which is just above the ideal range of 2, and nowhere near the 4/6 of high/too high...
Does my IR impact these numbers further?
To give a little perspective, my total was the same when tested back in 2009 (changed up and down since), but the "cholesterol composition" was SO different!
Total: 212
Trig: 203
HDL: 36
LDL-Calc: 135
HDL/Total: 0.1698 (closer to 0.10 than 0.24)
Trig/HDL: 5.6388 (between high and WAY TOO HIGH - and closer to WTH...SMH)
Part of the trigs number I believe was related to the untreated hypothyroid (which hadn't responded to meds years before), and which I didn't know, but having high trigs is a one of the big things that can help diagnose hypothyroid if you're in normal range but at the low end...
So definitely decreasing my risks!!!0 -
I fear this same thing come November our workplace screenings, I'm just hope my cholesterol levels don't come back whack. However if they do, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get me that waiver that says "Go *F* yourself Company" my doc says I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.0
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Exactly, Knit. The treatment for insulin resistance is a LCHF diet. Check out dietdoctor.com
Have you watched Peter Attia on youtube or Tim Noakes? Very good.
And yes, my endocrinologist is the one who finally tipped me over into the low carb camp because I'd been on the fence, terrified to try something else that wouldn't work and depress me, which he finally tested for the IR.
My Fasting Insulin Levels:
5/14: 9
10/14: 7.6 (with Metformin, without low carb)
4/15: 7.1 (with low carb, Metformin discontinued in January).
So improving there, too. Now that I've isolated some of the AS as further culprits, I look forward to new bloodwork in October to show off more! Anecdotal observations (within a few weeks of going low carb, I noticed that shadowing fading that is a sign of overworking your pancreas - and that's when I knew this WOE/WOL was definitely for m!!!)
I haven't had much internet access as far as watching videos, but it is definitely on my to do list!0 -
wow, Knit WTG with the insulin levels. that's what we should really be following , IMO. Sounds like yur endo is on the ball!!0
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Showed my test results to eye doctor yesterday as she has been watching my weight drop right before her eyes in the three months I have been going to her. Told her what PCP said and she flat out said SCREW HIM. I am thrilled with these results. And just like you said Knit, when losing weight it skews the results and the fact my ratio has come down so significantly is fantastic and she said NOT to do statins, not that I would, and wait and see how it all works out a year or so from now when the excess weight is gone and I am settled back into my body. She said I am doing fantastic in the short time she has been seeing me.
I will send PCP the links to the videos and information. I already sent him one. Not sure if her really took time to read it. Maybe I can educate this little twerp so he does not do stupid *kitten* to the next patient that comes along and he sends them down the SAD path like he keeps trying to do to me. He is a fresh out of school youngster as I see him and wouldn't it be wonderful if I could educate him. BUT on the other hand doctors are bound to follow the book and when they step out of what they consider the medical line they can get their hands slapped with big law suite. So I get it why he has to do some of this but also feel he needs to understand some of what he is preaching is so wrong.
It is his job to recommend statins because my readings really do look awful if you go by the book. I also have the right to refuse them.0 -
He's my third endo. First one retired and never really tested much. Replaced by a guy who told me my PCP was stupid for putting on me on thyroid meds (despite the fact that she had years and years of tests showing that my levels had dropped over 200%, even though I was still in "normal" limits) and I should quit them if they weren't working (had been less than 60 days, was natural stuff, my PCP later found that over 80% of her patients didn't respond to it - and through my own research I found a lot of that is due to the fact that type needs to be tweaked to find efficacy ranges - years later restarted on the synthetic stuff - blood levels responded immediately, added supplement to support and treat continued symptoms) unless I was ready to not be fat anymore (no plans or suggestions, just judgment).
I hit the gold mine with this one though. He believes in treating the symptoms, even if bloodwork doesn't always support the full diagnosis because with women, hormone issues, PCOS, IR, and all manner of craziness occur that mask the true underlying issues.
What's funnier to my is that my PCP kept telling my all my symptoms sounded like low thyroid but the tests never proved it...she never tested for insulin resistance, but when my endo did and she saw my current, already lower number, she FREAKED. *sigh*
But, I'm definitely finding that after almost 7 months low carb, and almost 6 months keto, that I feel better than I ever have in my life, despite some physical issues surfacing now....0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »
My Fasting Insulin Levels:
5/14: 9
10/14: 7.6 (with Metformin, without low carb)
4/15: 7.1 (with low carb, Metformin discontinued in January).
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This is very interesting Knit - thanks for sharing this. This really shows the power of low-carb & its superiority over the medicinal route.0 -
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i have something called common variable immunodeficiency, so i have to have blood drawn every six months to see whether i will still be annoying people for at least the next six months ;-) i had my blood drawn this week. while my immunoglobulins remain in the toilet (no surprise there), i did have two surprises. 1) after 5 weeks of LC, my serum glucose was in the normal range for the first time since i can remember. 2) my serum chloride level was lower than normal, which has never happened to me before. reading up, it looks like that means my electrolytes are off. short of eating salt, i am not sure what to do there.
next month, i get to make the cardiologist happy (i hope) and have the lipid test -- you know, bloodwork for cholesterol, etc. kind of curious on that front to see what is happening. my triglycerides, cholesterol, and other things have been baaaaaad. we shall see what hilarity ensues...0
