Low carb doesn't work for everyone
Replies
-
Wow I'm completely overwhelmed. Thanks for all the advice and kind words and caring.
I don't actually seem to be feeling better with higher carbs so maybe lots more salt and take that magnesium every day. Oddly enough I started a kind of meditation yesterday (Sahaja- very very cool) that seems to be giving me quite a bit of energy. So with those 3 things maybe I'll be OK! I think I will eventually do more of an autoimmune diet but I don't feel like jumping into that all at once right now.0 -
I also stay around 100. I love it. I have a friend that has lost 100 lbs eating 25-28 carbs per meal 5 times a day. It does work. Maybe at a slower pace. My race my pace.
^^ this! Just look at my weight loss graph, see how long it took me? but I am still keeping it off a year later. kcko! at whatever grams of carbs you can handle. It works!0 -
baconslave wrote: »Ketogenic diets work great. Until they don't anymore. Some people just do better doing other things at different points in their journey.
I lost all but the last 10lbs (that's 92 so far) doing keto, (<50g carbs total). But the past 6 months or so I've really been struggling with the chronic fatigue popping up again that had plagued me since I was 19. I've tweaked all kinds of things, more fat, more protein, more calories, been keeping the electrolytes on the up-and-up, cutting out artificial sweeteners, even carb-cycling. But I was still tired. I'm also always hungry all the time. Keto lost it's satiating effect for me. I've started upping my carbs over the ketogenic threshold. I've randomly checked my blood sugar after carbier things (like a banana) 2 hrs pp and it hasn't been over 95. So no worries there. I'm still LCHF, I'm just staying out of ketosis. It's nice to have an apple. And a little bit of roasted carrots in my stew. I can have some chili sometime.
And I have found in just the 2 days I've been doing this that I'm not having any trouble staying under 100. I don't think I broke 85 yesterday. And I had a small bowl of popcorn! Which I ate because I wanted it and because I was afraid I wouldn't be high enough to stay out of ketosis. I haven't had anymore carb-mares at night so far (those of you who have them know what I mean. Mine are very intense and stressful and I wake up stressed.) I don't care about the couple pounds of water weight. I'll still get to goal eventually. I'm also having less trouble hitting my calorie goal now. So my macros look a bit like: 20% carbs, 25% protein, 55% fat.
Intellectually, I feel like a traitor to the keto-cause. But I'm really not sorry. I'm quite happy to have more veggies in my life. I'm making almond flour crackers and bread sometime this week. In the trenches, it's every gal for herself. We got to discover our sweet spot for best health. It WAS keto for me. Now it may be something else. No shame in finding what's best for you. That's smart. This is all a huge experiment in progress.
I hope you start feeling better soon, Kerin.
I have also seen that I sleep better keeping above 50 grams. Like you say it is very easy to stay under 100.
It seems harder for me to stay over 50. I find myself , like you, looking for a last minute carb. Last night it was a small amount of blackberry ice cream.
Good to know this group is all about finding what is right for you and not forcing a certain program on everyone.0 -
KETOGENICGURL wrote: »I am VERY thankful Baconslave shared her story..we are all so jacked up on how successful LCHF can be that when there IS a snag we blame ourselves.
Just taking a beat..breath..and keep trying, not stressing, reduce tha Cortisol..and continue.
as others have said there is no better alternative….
Sorry I haven't responded to your PM, yet. Tuesdays and Weds are super busy for me. Appts and running errands.
Keto is great. It's amazing! Some people never have my problem. But some people do. It was really awesome for me for a long time. It just isn't working as well for me any more. I'd be a dummy to keep banging my head. Each individual has a different arrangement of DNA and, in addition, our diets can change our bodies. So naturally, if our bodies change, what works can change. Nothing is forever. And nothing is perfect for everyone. It's up to us to customize our intake to fit our particular situation and needs.
If I posted my story on r/keto, I would have been downvoted so low so quick that the devil would be waving down at me. I'm not interested in popularity. I'm interested in truth and actually helping people. That's why I'm here and helping to mod the group in the first place. I still believe in keto. I think I've just out-grown it. I'm not going carb nuts, though. I still haven't touched 100g. And I'm not interested in eating crap. I still believe LCHF is THE THING for me. Ketosis was just stressing my system too much for some reason. I may go back to it here and there.
Who knows. It's all an experiment in progress.
I'm pretty much following our general low-carb recs. Stay under 100g. Eat enough protein for my body. Fill the rest with fat. Customize as necessary.
It's working for me right now. I'll stick with it until it doesn't anymore.baconslave wrote: »Ketogenic diets work great. Until they don't anymore. Some people just do better doing other things at different points in their journey.
I lost all but the last 10lbs (that's 92 so far) doing keto, (<50g carbs total). But the past 6 months or so I've really been struggling with the chronic fatigue popping up again that had plagued me since I was 19. I've tweaked all kinds of things, more fat, more protein, more calories, been keeping the electrolytes on the up-and-up, cutting out artificial sweeteners, even carb-cycling. But I was still tired. I'm also always hungry all the time. Keto lost it's satiating effect for me. I've started upping my carbs over the ketogenic threshold. I've randomly checked my blood sugar after carbier things (like a banana) 2 hrs pp and it hasn't been over 95. So no worries there. I'm still LCHF, I'm just staying out of ketosis. It's nice to have an apple. And a little bit of roasted carrots in my stew. I can have some chili sometime. And I have found in just the 2 days I've been doing this that I'm not having any trouble staying under 100. I don't think I broke 85 yesterday. And I had a small bowl of popcorn! Which I ate because I wanted it and because I was afraid I wouldn't be high enough to stay out of ketosis. I haven't had anymore carb-mares at night so far (those of you who have them know what I mean. Mine are very intense and stressful and I wake up stressed.) I don't care about the couple pounds of water weight. I'll still get to goal eventually. I'm also having less trouble hitting my calorie goal now. So my macros look a bit like: 20% carbs, 25% protein, 55% fat.
Intellectually, I feel like a traitor to the keto-cause. But I'm really not sorry. I'm quite happy to have more veggies in my life. I'm making almond flour crackers and bread sometime this week. In the trenches, it's every gal for herself. We got to discover our sweet spot for best health. It WAS keto for me. Now it may be something else. No shame in finding what's best for you. That's smart. This is all a huge experiment in progress.
I hope you start feeling better soon, Kerin.
I have also seen that I sleep better keeping above 50 grams. Like you say it is very easy to stay under 100.
It seems harder for me to stay over 50. I find myself , like you, looking for a last minute carb. Last night it was a small amount of blackberry ice cream.
Good to know this group is all about finding what is right for you and not forcing a certain program on everyone.
That's our goal.
I know I'm good for ketosis up until about 65g net. I get full before I hit 85g total now. Fiber knocks it a little too close sometimes. Sheesh. Having trouble getting enough carbs...considering I was 20g total for a long time...well it's just hilarious and a little surreal to have that problem now.
I'm glad you are finding your sweet spot. It makes things a whole lot easier.
0 -
I find drinking a few ounces of heavy whipping cream (36% butter fat milk) right before bed addresses my looking for a last minute carb and is good for my stomach without really having carbs.0
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »I find drinking a few ounces of heavy whipping cream (36% butter fat milk) right before bed addresses my looking for a last minute carb and is good for my stomach without really having carbs.
Gale, I can't remember if you are insulin resistant, but if you are - do you find that this triggers your insulin reactions? I read somewhere that not snacking at all after meals is the best way to allow your insulin process to restore to normal. I've been working on that - if I have a snack/sweet treat, I try always to tie it to the middle or end of my meal. I'm just wondering if you've had any experience with that?0 -
I do not know if I am insulin resistant beyond what is naturally caused by LCHF. The last fasting reading I took was 93 after 12 hours of fasting and right before I ate breakfast.
I did find the below interesting about eating fat.
bodybuilding.com/fun/insulin-sensitivity-blast-fat-for-good.htm
Sometimes I do cottage cheese at bedtime but prefer a slug of heavy whipping cream for the stomach.
I need to read more on the subject.0 -
SkinnyKerinny wrote: »Thanks so much everyone! I LOVE this group!!!
It is obvious lower carbs are the answer since especially sugar was a taking a huge hit on my health. But maybe they are too low. I didn't realize 150 was still considered low carb. I've been at around 30 to 60 most days.
I just want to be able to continue to improve, be able to function (think clearly at work so I don't lose my job and have enouugh energy to take care of my pups) and lose weight. I stalled out at 10 pounds down and am not able to exercise except walking on the "good" days and usually for small amounts like 10 minutes at a time. I feel like instead of making progress I'm going the other way-- less energy every day.
I just had a thought-- I wonder if it's a magnesium deficiency. I have overlooked taking that recently. I just took 3 mega pills so hopefully that will help get me to the market and back home today.
Hi!
also may I suggest potassium supplements? I was feeling awful for way too long, bought some potassium supplements and also some "Lo Salt" which has less sodium but also has potassium and I use this on everything. I do feel better since I started taking these. I also take a multivitamin and a magnesium and a probiotic everyday. Hope this helps 0 -
I'm not sure how much salt or potassium I should be taking. Eating really salty food is harsh (I've been adding a lot of salt lately yuck) but salt tablets sound much more doable. Does anyone take those? How much are you taking? What about potassium-- how much do you take of that a day?
Any recommendations on brands and dosages would be awesome. I will order those salt tablets right away and I have some potassium already.0 -
SkinnyKerinny wrote: »I'm not sure how much salt or potassium I should be taking. Eating really salty food is harsh (I've been adding a lot of salt lately yuck) but salt tablets sound much more doable. Does anyone take those? How much are you taking? What about potassium-- how much do you take of that a day?
Any recommendations on brands and dosages would be awesome. I will order those salt tablets right away and I have some potassium already.
I just add salt to taste to food and then try to eat something extra salty when possible. I like salt on tomatoes and can tolerate more on them than other foods. So I have a little tomato a few times a week. And olives, pickles are a favorite of mine.
I only get potassium from NuSalt (salt substitute) and tomatoes are high in it too. Also chicken. I'm sure lots of other stuff also. I think I noticed it was pretty high in romaine lettuce and I actually love salad to death so I have no problem eating a few cups of that every day. I even salt my salad. I will put a little NuSalt and regular salt on everything. And I have added both to water for when it's hot or I'm walking because I'm so thirsty then that I don't care if I can taste it. Other times I will add it but in lesser amounts and then add some water flavor drops too. Can't taste any salt that way.
Sometimes I record this stuff and other times I don't. Idk how much I'm actually using each time because my scale is stupid and doesn't seem to be able to register 1 gram as a measurement even though it's supposed to.0 -
Just wanted to repeat the caution about taking potassium or nusalt if you are taking medicines for blood pressure. Check your prescription labels!0
-
greenautumn17 wrote: »Just wanted to repeat the caution about taking potassium or nusalt if you are taking medicines for blood pressure. Check your prescription labels!
Good looking out. I don't take any of those so this is something I wasn't aware of. But I do know you shouldn't over do potassium, and since I don't know how much that would be for me, I feel safest with the small doses I get from NuSalt.0 -
I would suggest baseline supplementing only due to symptom, but these are pretty simple blood tests your doctor can request. Sodium and potassium levels are on the CBC/standard bloodwork, so if you have that done annually with your yearly check up, you should already have that data. For me, even after going keto, my sodium and potassium were fairly level, so I just supplement to symptom, but my magnesium was low (with no previous comparison data). I supplement with a chelated magnesium citrate, which absorbs well for me without giving loose stools. It's 135 mg each, and I take two at bedtime. Anything more than that, and i have a bathroom situation. I also can't take more mag during the day, so I just aim to get it in food.0
-
SkinnyKerinny wrote: »Wow I'm completely overwhelmed. Thanks for all the advice and kind words and caring.
I don't actually seem to be feeling better with higher carbs so maybe lots more salt and take that magnesium every day. Oddly enough I started a kind of meditation yesterday (Sahaja- very very cool) that seems to be giving me quite a bit of energy. So with those 3 things maybe I'll be OK! I think I will eventually do more of an autoimmune diet but I don't feel like jumping into that all at once right now.
Since you've mentioned being very sick, you might also want to check out the zero carb/carnivore way of eating, even as a temporary elimination baseline (meat and water only for 30 days, then slowly add things back in and see how you respond). It's actually been used medically for nearly a century and a half (check out Dr. Salisbury's work) to treat all sorts of issues (especially things like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and various other "we have no idea why this is happening" disorders).
Also, regarding magnesium - you can also do foot soaks or baths with epsom salt or other magnesium-containing salts. Magnesium absorbs readily through the skin, and you don't have to worry about whether you're overdoing it, as the body will just stop absorbing it when it has enough. It's also a good time to relax and get some reading done. 0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Also, regarding magnesium - you can also do foot soaks or baths with epsom salt or other magnesium-containing salts. Magnesium absorbs readily through the skin, and you don't have to worry about whether you're overdoing it, as the body will just stop absorbing it when it has enough. It's also a good time to relax and get some reading done.
There's another post (http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10237197/epsom-salt-baths#latest) that could use your input on the epsom salts bath issue, too. I know you posted some links in times past, but I couldn't find them. 0 -
I have a HUGE bag of San Francisco bath salts and use it quite often. Love my baths!0
-
SkinnyKerinny wrote: »I have a HUGE bag of San Francisco bath salts and use it quite often. Love my baths!
How you feelin? Things going any better?
0 -
Hi, can someone explain "keto flu" please? Thank you0
-
spacetastic wrote: »Hi, can someone explain "keto flu" please? Thank you
A syndrome of common side-effects people associated with the start of a low-carb diet, including fatigue, headaches, light-headedness, and generally just feeling like crap.
Some people think it's "carb withdrawal," including the first hit you get from google. I think it's related to sodium and fluid losses. Salt always cures it for me.0 -
I have done moderate carb and even 20 or less, exercised on an empty stomach.
Never had flu symptoms
Seems to vary from person to person?0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »I have done moderate carb and even 20 or less, exercised on an empty stomach.
Never had flu symptoms
Seems to vary from person to person?
Yeah, I'd guess that the same people who have salt-sensitive hypertension also get the flu. For some people, salt doesn't seem to affect blood volume that much.
0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »I have done moderate carb and even 20 or less, exercised on an empty stomach.
Never had flu symptoms
Seems to vary from person to person?
Yeah, I'd guess that the same people who have salt-sensitive hypertension also get the flu. For some people, salt doesn't seem to affect blood volume that much.
You are a true service to our little group!
I did not know that
You are not allowed to quit MFP
0 -
Heh. It's just a theory. I like throwing 'em out there in the hope that somebody will shoot them down. 0
-
KnitOrMiss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I find drinking a few ounces of heavy whipping cream (36% butter fat milk) right before bed addresses my looking for a last minute carb and is good for my stomach without really having carbs.
Gale, I can't remember if you are insulin resistant, but if you are - do you find that this triggers your insulin reactions? I read somewhere that not snacking at all after meals is the best way to allow your insulin process to restore to normal. I've been working on that - if I have a snack/sweet treat, I try always to tie it to the middle or end of my meal. I'm just wondering if you've had any experience with that?
I am Insulin Resistant and wonder if I should cut out snacks or tie them to a meal. Great question~
0 -
spacetastic wrote: »Hi, can someone explain "keto flu" please? Thank you
A syndrome of common side-effects people associated with the start of a low-carb diet, including fatigue, headaches, light-headedness, and generally just feeling like crap.
Some people think it's "carb withdrawal," including the first hit you get from google. I think it's related to sodium and fluid losses. Salt always cures it for me.
It is making me feel depressed and short tempered. My energy is back but my mood is not so good. I jope this passes. Anyone have this problem with LCHF WOE?
0 -
Hi Pennell12-- I get short tempered when I have really low energy because I'm not coping well with stressors, etc. How is your energy level?0
-
How's your sodium intake? The standard prescription is a bowl of broth -- about 1g sodium.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/03March/Pages/Saltanaturalantidepressant.aspx0 -
spacetastic wrote: »Hi, can someone explain "keto flu" please? Thank you
A syndrome of common side-effects people associated with the start of a low-carb diet, including fatigue, headaches, light-headedness, and generally just feeling like crap.
Some people think it's "carb withdrawal," including the first hit you get from google. I think it's related to sodium and fluid losses. Salt always cures it for me.
The experience I've had with my husband suggests that there's a carb/grain withdrawal component for at least some people, and I suspect the withdrawal is more grain related than carbs, per se.
My husband has attempted it several times, and each time, he looks like a drug addict at a rehab center, and that's even with allowing a higher level of sugar/carbs than the typical keto induction (such as sweet tea and some amount of potato). It's not until he eats something grain-based again that he feels and looks better.
The Whole 30 program's "timeline" overlaps with LCHF induction/adaptation so much that you can use it as guide for intro to LCHF, despite the fact that Whole 30 doesn't require carb restriction at all (fruit and tubers can make up for all of the lost grain carbs if you wanted). This suggests that that kind of withdrawal process (and such, the kind that doesn't really respond to fluids or electrolytes) is actually independent of the fuel switch, and it's only coincidental that it's associated with induction, because dropping carbs that low pretty much necessitates going grain free.
Then, you have the sodium loss from dropping carbs, period, and the symptoms associated with sodium deficiency and/or electrolyte imbalance. That is cured by something like a good cup of broth.
Since they both would happen at the same time, it would be easy to conflate the two, and I've little doubt that in people who experience both would end up having it worse as the symptoms of one amplifies the symptoms of the other.0 -
I think there can be carb-specific brain effects, but I'd guess the key factor in determining if the problems are related to sodium would be water weight loss. All of the paleo diets, including Whole 30, are low-enough-carb to both lower insulin and make ketones. Both of those factors will affect sodium retention, and the diets themselves are going to be naturally low in sodium if they're eating whole foods.
If you lose more than a couple pounds in a week, you've lost water, and if you've lost water, you've lost sodium.
(Yeah, I know glycogen is usually blamed for the early water loss, but that can't account for more than 400g of weight loss.)0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I find drinking a few ounces of heavy whipping cream (36% butter fat milk) right before bed addresses my looking for a last minute carb and is good for my stomach without really having carbs.
Gale, I can't remember if you are insulin resistant, but if you are - do you find that this triggers your insulin reactions? I read somewhere that not snacking at all after meals is the best way to allow your insulin process to restore to normal. I've been working on that - if I have a snack/sweet treat, I try always to tie it to the middle or end of my meal. I'm just wondering if you've had any experience with that?
I am Insulin Resistant and wonder if I should cut out snacks or tie them to a meal. Great question~
I can't find the exact article I read about why to do this, but this one explains it okay. The only I read specifically talked about not eating after dinner...
http://cascadeintegrativemedicine.com/to-snack-or-not-to-snack-the-myth-and-the-reality-of-eating-between-meals/
An interesting/related article: http://jdmoyer.com/2010/11/01/what-it-feels-like-to-regain-your-insulin-sensitivity/
If I find the other article, @pennell12 I''ll be sure to post it for you!0
This discussion has been closed.