After finding my TDEE, I'm considering a slow cut - thoughts/feedback?

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Hi Everyone!
I've been on the EM2WL forums for over 3 years and have been following it for the last 3 months after reading through all of the stickies and all of recent posts over the last 4 months. After 3 months of figuring out my TDEE, maintaining/recomping, upping calories and gaining, I think I'm (not) ready to start a slow cut. I say "not" ready because I'm not ready to eat less but I know I'd like to start seeing some of my hard work from lifting heavy once it gets closer to summer and its going to take at least a 3-4 months to get there.

Here's my stats: I'm 5'4", 33 yrs old, I lift heavy 4 days per week using PHUL, no structured cardio. I estimate my current BF% at 25-27% depending on the calculators, I'd like to get down to 20-22% ultimately within the next 12-18 months. I haven't eaten less than 1600 calories/day in over 3 years.

Wk Starting / Avg Calories / Weight (lbs)
Oct 26 / 1830 / 151.0
Nov 2 / 1925 / 153.6
Nov 9 / 1852 / 153.4
Nov 16 / 1755 / 153.2
Nov 23 / 1920 / 153.2
Nov 30 / 1845 / 153.2
Dec 07 / 2035 / 156.4
Dec 14 / 2000 / 156.4
Dec 20-Dec 30 re-feeding by eating on average of 2200 calories/day approx., working out 3-4 days/wk
Dec 31-Jan 4 eating 1900-2000 calories without weighing in, working out 3-4 days/wk
Jan 4 / 2000 / 161.6
Jan 11 / 1960 / 159.2

From these numbers, I would estimate my TDEE to be 2000/day calories when lifting 4 days per week. For reference @heybales spreadsheet est. my TDEE at 2040 so it's pretty close!

My plan is to start incorporating some steady state cardio (walking 3.5mph on an incline) 2-3 days per week which I'll eat back the calories for and won't include in my TDEE calculation. I'll also start decreasing my calories slightly to 1800-1900 calories/day (100-200 cal deficit).

Any thoughts? Concerns? Re-assurances? I will continue to update with my progress as we go.

A_Dabauer

I think it looks like a good plan

I'm curious to follow along with your progress as you should be well into things by the time I'm finished doing my rest and ready for phase two!

jerilynconn

*following

KickboxDiva

I have a thread from the beginning of my bulk on here so I'm about 4 weeks ahead of you. Started the cut 1/1. I'm using the guidance of a macro coach from ETP. My first idea prior to using her was to shave off daily from my tdee but after speaking to her she put me (from 2400 daily) to 1900 150p/50f/213c on my 4 lifting days 500 deficit.. And 1650 150/50/150 on my rest days. She asked me to work hard 3 days and rest ( complete or walking only) 4 days. I couldn't do that so I'm working out 4 /3 rest. Keeping my sleep good and cortisol levels in check by resting. I'll do this until the loss stops then slide down to 1450 150/50/100 on rest days and at that point I may increase my rest day by 1 so I'm in a deficit another day. It seemed counterintuitive but it's only 8 weeks and I'm trusting her for the process. I've done it my way before, looking for something different. ( of course in my mind I'm thinking I'll need longer but we'll see what they say in the end. Maybe 8-12 weeks?? I wasn't planning to cut that low but it's been doable. Lots of veggies , whole foods and macro Tetris. My diary is open if you care to peek. I started 1/1 at 178. I'm 174 even today it's Tom too so I'm hopeful for next weeks numbers.

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Thanks for your input @KickboxDiva ! so your ETP coach recommended a full 500 calorie deficit on lifting days and even more on rest days? I'm not sure I could drop that much...how are you finding it? I want to reduce the likelihood of losing muscle mass as much as possible so I'm concerned with dropping my calories too much. What's your coaches reasoning on the larger deficit? I will definitely take a look at your diary as well, thanks!

KickboxDiva

Possibly because I started so much higher than you? I'm not sure it would be good for you to drop from 2000 on rest days much more than 500. I'm adjusting to the food ok. Cut out most snacks and cooking a LOT of home cooked meals. Their idea is that on lift days you need to eat more and on rest days you can cut sharp. Get more rest and keep the cut cycle short then reverse out of it slowly. Don't just stop. When I get to that point I'll share how they suggest that I do it. I don't have that information right now. I also do have that 2nd level to go to. Doing it myself I was going to cut slower and longer but they suggested to just go for it in short bursts. I'm not exactly sure why but the scale is moving so I'm happy with that. I've determined that a 1600 calorie diet and even a 1200-1400 won't kill you, it's just not meant to be longterm and you can't pop right back to your top calories.
That said, up until today I felt pretty good. Monday started TOM so I should be past that initial bad feeling but my workout today was so difficult. After, I just showered and got back in my pjs to do computer work. Thankfully no clients today. I havent been too concerned about macro timing but today I took the advice and ate some fast digesting carbs right after to try to get some energy. Also, I've started having some Herbalife green tea mix about 2-3pm daily when I feel that slump. I didn't need any of that stuff at 2400 calories. So there is a difference. I also feel weaker in the gym so we are doing less reps still heavy to maintain muscle and I'm eating 150 grams of protein . We are adding in more cardio power moves. (thrusters burpees) <-- probalby the source of all the tiredness. I did this for a year to lose before so I can take it for 8 weeks as long as I get results and now I know it needs to end and the cut isn't the "lifestyle" part. To be clear..this week is really the first time I'm feeling that extreme tiredness so I'm really hoping its the TOM and that the trainer has decided everyone needs more devil cardio moves and I'm not used to it.

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

@KickboxDiva - thank you so much for the info! I will definitely consider this and put some thought into it.

XavierNusum

Jennifer my advice would be start with a 10% deficit for a couple of weeks and then slowly move up, maxing at 20%. You don't want to start in the basement then you no where to go. I also think if you've spent quality time finding TDEE just eat that everyday and keep your activity consistent. That means, skip the cardio unless it's just for fun. Remember to also have an end date for this cut, about 8 weeks is suggested.

KickboxDiva

It just occurred to me that it was also suggested that I eat full tdee every 10-14 days on a training day. I forgot to mention that to you.

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Update: I had a bit of a rough weekend with my eating (eating above my maintenance) and seemed to have a spike in my weight. I know I didn't eat over 8000 calories over my maintenance calories over those few days so I know it's water retention but it's tough seeing a 3 lbs spike after losing a few lbs. Back to more controlled eating today and for the remainder of the week. I went for a 2 hour snowshoe hike on Sunday and still got to the gym yesterday for my usual workout so exercise wise I'm on track.

Will update more in a few days.

jerilynconn

Jennifer_Lynn_1982 wrote: »

Update: I had a bit of a rough weekend with my eating (eating above my maintenance) and seemed to have a spike in my weight. I know I didn't eat over 8000 calories over my maintenance calories over those few days so I know it's water retention but it's tough seeing a 3 lbs spike after losing a few lbs. Back to more controlled eating today and for the remainder of the week. I went for a 2 hour snowshoe hike on Sunday and still got to the gym yesterday for my usual workout so exercise wise I'm on track.

Will update more in a few days.

Have you decided what to do?

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

I'm going to stick with calories between 1800-1900/day (100-200 calorie deficit) for the remainder of this week and then look to do 1750-1800 calories/day (200-250 calorie deficit) which will be a 10% cut. I'll continue lifting heavy throughout. I'll do the cut for 8 weeks and see where I'm at at the end of March.

I may consider doing calorie cycling as @KickboxDiva suggested once I get my eating back in control and get a routine going.

I'll continue updating as I go.

jerilynconn

Jennifer_Lynn_1982 wrote: »

I'm going to stick with calories between 1800-1900/day (100-200 calorie deficit) for the remainder of this week and then look to do 1750-1800 calories/day (200-250 calorie deficit) which will be a 10% cut. I'll continue lifting heavy throughout. I'll do the cut for 8 weeks and see where I'm at at the end of March.

I may consider doing calorie cycling as @KickboxDiva suggested once I get my eating back in control and get a routine going.

I'll continue updating as I go.

Please do! I'm looking forward to following. I hope to be on your tail but i am not sure i've even found my tdee yet. How long did you stay at tdee level? I know the rec's are 8-12 weeks so i still have 2-3 months at the least before i can cut. Although i'm afraid of what will happen we winter leaves and i head outdoors again- will i have to refigure my tdee?

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

I was at or above my eat TDEE for 8 weeks. I had not been at a huge deficit beforehand and hadn't restricted my calories severely for years so I felt that 8 weeks was enough for me. If your activity changes, your TDEE will change but maybe you account for the different exercise / activity and add that to your calorie goal for the day. That should be a close enough estimate I'd think.

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

I had a few days away from the gym on Thurs/Fri due to being sick, feeling mostly better so I'll go for a workout today. I ate around 1800 calories and weight stayed the same through the weekend but did go up during the week from the original 159.2 - up to 160.0

empressichel

One of the great ways to tell if your cut is at the right point is just really taking a good look at how you feel.
Energy levels? Still able to progress with workouts? Mood stability? Sleep patterns.
Sometimes on workout days your body might give you some cues to eat a little more, and if you are lifting heavy, that can often be the 24 hours after your workout. Which can be confusing because, you are like, wait! It's a rest day! Why do I want to eat the house? But it could be from what you did the day previous. This always happens to me after deadlifts and squats, not hungry on that day, but the next day, bring on the food!
Also, remember to have a TDEE break of a week or so every 6-8 weeks of a cut to keep that metabolism chugging along nicely!

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

thanks for your input @rastaempress !

heybales

Ditto to the Empress.

Also, if you had a good lifting session and have enough food for body to really help repair with - you might get great night sweats.
But if you don't and it can't - heat level doesn't go up.
Hopefully takes place the next day then as mentioned.

XavierNusum

rastaempress wrote: »

One of the great ways to tell if your cut is at the right point is just really taking a good look at how you feel.
Energy levels? Still able to progress with workouts? Mood stability? Sleep patterns.
Sometimes on workout days your body might give you some cues to eat a little more, and if you are lifting heavy, that can often be the 24 hours after your workout. Which can be confusing because, you are like, wait! It's a rest day! Why do I want to eat the house? But it could be from what you did the day previous. This always happens to me after deadlifts and squats, not hungry on that day, but the next day, bring on the food!
Also, remember to have a TDEE break of a week or so every 6-8 weeks of a cut to keep that metabolism chugging along nicely!

good stuff here ^^^

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Update for the week. I had some great workouts this week and was able to keep my eating on track while logging 100%. I still feel like I have enough fuel to keep strong throughout the workout which is surprising and I am getting some night sweats going on @heybales - I guess this is a good sign.

I dropped down to about 1600-1650 calories/day this week and 'm going to keep eating here for a few weeks to see how my body responds and then re-assess.

heybales

Great progress then. Good job on sleeping too.

KickboxDiva

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Thanks for checking back @heybales and @KickboxDiva

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Update - here's my weight logins over the last week.

02/15 160.6 TOM
02/16 160.6 TOM
02/18 160.6
02/19 160.2
02/23 157.4 woosh
02/24 159.0

My calorie intake has been spot on at 1600-1650 calories/day - down around 1.6 lbs in those 9 days which is about 1.25 lbs/wk.

My workouts have been going awesome - I had a PR for reps on Bench Press, Leg Press and Leg Curl this week. I still feel strong and am sleeping pretty well, once I get to sleep (averaging between 6.5-7.5 hrs/night).

retirehappy

Great result. Sleeping through the night is always a challenge for me, glad your sleep is getting better for you.l

Sumiblue

Great job!

Jennifer_Lynn_1982

Update - here's my weight logins over the few weeks - I'm struggling with my intake

02/25 159.0
02/26 158.4 Avg Cal/Wk: 1610
03/09 159.0 Avg Cal/Wk: 1638
03/17 159.4 Avg Cal/Wk: 1661

My calorie intake has been on average 1625-1750 calories/day - no real change in my weight over this time.

My workouts have been going okay - I haven't been able to increase my lifts over the last few weeks but I have increased on reps for the most part.

I'm wondering if I've dropped my calories too low which is causing me to stall or it's simply my lack of being diligent with my logging in the evening from frustration. I have been logging diligently again for the last week so I'm looking forward to checking my measurements tomorrow morning - perhaps see if my body composition has changed.

Input is welcome.

jerilynconn

Bumping. I've heard that some people have a better loss after the first cut is over. Your weight seems pretty stable. Sounds frustrating- maybe the inches are down. How do your clothes fit?

molnardrea

saranharm wrote: »

Bumping. I've heard that some people have a better loss after the first cut is over. Your weight seems pretty stable. Sounds frustrating- maybe the inches are down. How do your clothes fit?

I've lost the most body fat as I was reversing slowly out of my cut. My body just relaxed for the constant feeding that it got. I just felt like it told me that "hon, it's okay to let go of the stored fat as you won't be starved to hang on it". Keep your cut going and choose a very slow reverse and it should help you! I added 10 g carbs and 1 g fat weekly. Went from 1600 kcals to 2200 kcals in like two months. When my weight didn't change or even dropped I added 20g and 2 fats to get up sooner.

jerilynconn

How slow did you reverse out of your cut @molnardrea ?

molnardrea

saranharm wrote: »

How slow did you reverse out of your cut @molnardrea ?

10 g carbs and 1g fat weekly as I said. That was the principle. But after 3-4 days on the new level I always felt confident to go faster because I didn't gain, even still lost weight at the beginning so I didn't eat one whole week on the same level always. I upped more frecuently. Every 3-4 days. I should also mention that I've never been dieting as low calories for long periods of times. I do this whole up and down scaling in 2-3 months repeatedly to have 8 weeks of "cut" and then slowly coming out of that to not put back fat and still eat normally. I'm 5'4 and 138 lbs, but with quite a lot of muscle. Close to my goal look, I want to lean out. On January 1st I started from 1500 cals and slowly in two month until the end of February I went up to 2200 where I stayed a week. From the beginning of March I'm taking away 20 g carbs and 2 grams fat each week until the end of next week. That will be 4 weeks of light, gradual cut. Then in April I will slowly add back again, until May, when I want to be on maintenance again. From then on I will stay on maintenance probably the whole summer because I will be very active and will have lots of exams and I can't study if I'm craving nutrients.

Note. My changes are not HUGE. But as long as I'm not going back into my old bingeing habits and eating like cr*p and progessing in the gym, I'm happy