After 5K

Orphia

I joined this group after finishing C25K, so I could train for 10K.

I started using the Zen Labs 10K app, continuing from where you finish 5K. But the 10K app seems to build miles too quickly.

I went from a 35 minute 5K in the first app, to 3 x 15 minutes (45 minutes of running) in the first week of the 10K app.

And this is supposed to be 3 times for the week - no shorter runs.

I think this is too fast too soon. I think it caused my hip tendon problem. It's certainly a much bigger increase than the golden rule of 10% in one week.

I don't recommend the Zen Labs 10K app past 5K. (I have no problems with the 5K app program!)

Instead, I'm looking at doing either this 10K program by Hal Higdon (I've done the first week no problem):

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51122/10-K-Training-Guide-Novice-Program

or I'm thinking I might get Strava Premium and get a tailored program for me personally.

Kind regards and happy wogging!

Diantha21

I too have been told off this week by my physio, I said it was a goal for me to do 10k by the summer, he said yes and although i have no problems with you doing this, what you will do is when you get to 10k you will set yourself another goal....on and on infinitum lol....
What he suggested to me is yes do 10k if you must, but doing the 5k and setting yourself goals to increase stamina and speed so goals within goals and also to change things, like slow sometimes and then to have sessions that are quicker, which would be good for heart health rather than to try to reach further lengths i.e.10k, half marathons etc, which will only bring long term toll on the body. My physio was a runner for south west region and England and he said if he had his time over he would not have trained for long runs on tarmac..(2 very painful knee ops later) so while I have my knee strapped up I am thinking hard about slowing down how fast I want or need to get to a goal, perhaps a slow but steady, would be the best goal health wise.

I guess Dee had it right to go back to basics, but in truth it is the sitting in my car (which is old and not comfy anyway) and in peoples homes for many many hours a day (up to 12hrs some days) that is my problem and just have to do intense stretching now for a while before I do any exercise.

I will look at your new apps when I get a moment

Take care all

Diantha21

Sorry that should have been intense stretching and exercise before I do any further running lol..sorry for long waffle happy wagging...

d_thomas02

Gotta do what's right for you @Orphia. Good luck on whatever program you find but, please, don't be a stranger. Keep us up to date on your progress.

Diantha21

So right d_thomas02 to do what is right to suit each person...you are doing extremely well and I take note of your times etc and will hope to try these later when able...hope you feel better soon after your op.

Hope your hip is on the mend ?? Orphia Take care

btw my stupid computer likes to think it knows what I want to say...my add on should have said happy wogging but it likes to update my words lol ggrrr.

Orphia

Diantha21 wrote: »

I too have been told off this week by my physio, I said it was a goal for me to do 10k by the summer, he said yes and although i have no problems with you doing this, what you will do is when you get to 10k you will set yourself another goal....on and on infinitum lol....
What he suggested to me is yes do 10k if you must, but doing the 5k and setting yourself goals to increase stamina and speed so goals within goals and also to change things, like slow sometimes and then to have sessions that are quicker, which would be good for heart health rather than to try to reach further lengths i.e.10k, half marathons etc, which will only bring long term toll on the body. My physio was a runner for south west region and England and he said if he had his time over he would not have trained for long runs on tarmac..(2 very painful knee ops later) so while I have my knee strapped up I am thinking hard about slowing down how fast I want or need to get to a goal, perhaps a slow but steady, would be the best goal health wise.

I guess Dee had it right to go back to basics, but in truth it is the sitting in my car (which is old and not comfy anyway) and in peoples homes for many many hours a day (up to 12hrs some days) that is my problem and just have to do intense stretching now for a while before I do any exercise.

I will look at your new apps when I get a moment

Take care all

Thanks very much, Di! That's a really good thing to hear, what your physio said. That may be it. I'm already trying to improve my 5K times every Saturday at parkrun. Am I doing too much by trying to run longer as well?

My hip was nearly better at parkrun yesterday, but a bit sore at the end and I can feel it a bit today.

I get my orthotics on Friday, so I'm hoping that will be a new era in pain-free running.

I'm just going to do one or two short runs this week (4 km or less) like I did last week since that helped my hip.

The link I posted isn't an app, it's a webpage with the 10K running schedule on it. There is one long run per week, one 4-5 km run, and a 3.2 km run. The rest is strength, stretching rest and cross-training.

Again, thankyou for your physio's comments.

Diantha21

Thanks very much, Di! That's a really good thing to hear, what your physio said. That may be it. I'm already trying to improve my 5K times every Saturday at parkrun. Am I doing too much by trying to run longer as well?

My hip was nearly better at parkrun yesterday, but a bit sore at the end and I can feel it a bit today.

I get my orthotics on Friday, so I'm hoping that will be a new era in pain-free running.

I'm just going to do one or two short runs this week (4 km or less) like I did last week since that helped my hip.

The link I posted isn't an app, it's a webpage with the 10K running schedule on it. There is one long run per week, one 4-5 km run, and a 3.2 km run. The rest is strength, stretching rest and cross-training.

Again, thankyou for your physio's comments.

[/quote]
Orphia,

I think you have to have a review by your own physician I guess, as one thing I found out is that the pain in my knee was not because of my knee, if that makes any sense? The problem is to do with a shortening of my hamstring and Ilitiolbial band, the long band that runs down the side of the leg that joins the hip to the tibia. It also needs a lot of stretching but one that is easy to forget apparently as It is not a muscle perse more fibrous tissue. Strange that this would cause knee pain, although I am told by the main man that this is so, so I will do what he says.... I could have applied much pain rub etc to the area of pain to no avail...hey ho I know what to do now and I shall very soon, once the pain he inflicted on me with his elbows has passed, be out there again catching you all up....(Dee doesn't have to tell me now to warm up properly I learned the hard way)
I have also just ordered a massage and heat seat for my car as I spend 3hrs some days foot on the gas, leg bent, getting one way to a destination to sit in someone else's car while I supervise their work then another 3hr drive home, not something I can or want to change as I love my job, so hopefully massaging on the hop so to speak will help.

I will look at the website now Orphia as strangely that is exactly what my physio said to do to, alter lengths and speed and that makes so much sense!! I suppose I got into a trap of thinking that I should carry on doing 30mins running because that is what I had trained myself to do and the point I had got to, although the c25k was all about some walking, some running, and varied each week wasn't it!!?...thanks for starting this thread, it was just what I needed to read.

Good luck with you orthotic session Friday, I will be really interested to hear how it goes and what they suggest.

Take care.

Di

Orphia

I'm really enjoying our discussion too, Di!

Yes, my physiotherapist said my left hip tendon pain is actually caused by my left leg being one centimetre longer, and my right foot being flatter, so this causes a lot of pulling on the left side. (I also occasionally get knee pain caused by the same thing and both feet being flat.)

I've got floppy feet and I'm lopsided... I'm flopsided! That's why I need the orthotics. I've had the plaster casts done, and will be getting the orthotics on Friday. Can't wait to test them out on a run!

My physio also gave me different exercises to do to strengthen the tendon, ease the associated back pain, and get the muscles on either side of the knee working at the same time.

It's great to get professional advice! Thanks for telling me more about what you've learned.

I gather Hal Higdon (the man behind the 10K link I posted) is the guru on running. Another friend at our level thought the plan looked amazing. I'm going to do the first week again this week while my tendon is recovering. I did 4 km this morning, and kept a good steady pace throughout of around 7 minutes per km. It's good to learn to pace yourself, as I've learned with parkrun. I've had runs in the past where I've started out too fast and been really pooped too soon!

Oops, rambling on! Man I love talking about running! Talk later.

d_thomas02

I'm sure your Doc will tell you this, @Orphis. You'll need to get use to the orthotics before doing anything extreme like running in them. Two hours the first day, four the second... until you can wear them all day comfortably.

I started out with one pair of custom RX orthodics. They have to be rebuilt every couple of years. I had a second pair made before I sent the first back for rebuilding so I wouldn't be without for the ten days it took. Now I have three pairs... but I still don't run in mine. I'm not flopsided, though. YMMV

Diantha21

Hi wow this is really informative Orphia, I have not heard a lot about orthotics!! probably not a lot of it in England? or because I do not know anyone flopsided, well I do now
I actually am going to have a chat to my physio next time I see him as I had a lot done last year re teasing out the scar tissue and muscles on my right Glut, due to many injuries within that muscle and so my left side was working overtime to pull me straight, well now I have just recently found since my knee problem I am walking really weirdly, I had not noticed before, like my gait is not right, as I have 2 pairs of boots that I am all of a sudden walking over inwards on them with my right foot. I will certainly keep stretching well anyway, until I see him and let you know how that works out, perhaps I need something like Orthotic help?

NOW, I have managed to look at the site you put above, I have printed off a copy of the schedule and as it is Monday and there is no time like the present, I will start today, (esp as I have reset my goals...8 months indeed!! ok!! to lose 48lbs!!)
I really am not concerned with doing my 10k run at the end of the 8th week lol, so if I have to redo weeks so be it. I think this is a great idea, (just as my physio also said vary what you do) so I plan to use my weights and my rowing machine as the cross training! (I have read this is ok it is just to do something different from running to save fatigue)
My only concern is how to track and know I have run the miles/km as I am running?? any ideas or help anyone please, I am not sure I want to run with a phone in my hand and up until now I have a pod that tells me what to do and how far I have gone, anyway I have until tomorrow to work that out lol

Any way home made soup is waiting to be zapped,

Speak soon

Di

Diantha21

Oh remembered a friend was posting on fb he uses runtastic so I am downloading it as we speak, ....yippee should be ready to 'go' tomorrow, I best not get too excited.. slow and steady let you know how it goes

Di

Diantha21

Hi Orphia, hope you are well and hope you are surviving your hip pain?
I have done my first run as per the Hal Higdon site you mentioned, albeit with a little difficulty with my new runtastic app i downloaded disappearing behind my screensaver...so a little adjustment is necessary for Thursday run, or I will be looking at a runner watch.

I wondered if you noticed that there is an anomollly between the schedule on the page at the bottom of the link and a printer version of the novice schedule? The one I printed off (printer version) has Monday as a stretch and strengthen day, yet on the bottom of the front page it has Monday as a rest day, I suppose it won't actually hurt to stretch at any rate and to do a strengthen day as I can cope with? Perhaps.

One more thing that could be useful was my physio suggestion to me that as soon as I finish a run, for me to use 'ice' so to use frozen pea bag for 10 mins to reduce any chance of injury

Take care

Di

Diantha21

http://running.competitor.com/2014/09/training/3-ways-to-increase-running-cadence-for-speed_112765

Something else I did wrong was to try to sprint the last part of my run, however this article suggests a few ways to increase 'cadence' a better way to learn ways that is likely to perhaps causes less injury...interesting I liked the bit about training to not have feet on the ground for so long, I reckon this is me at the moment A little heavy footed

Orphia

Interesting article, Di!

My boss (and running guru) says if you're increasing your distance, your speed on shorter distances will automatically follow.

I know that since starting in October, my 5k time at parkrun has improved every week. (I first ran in September - 500 metres to start with.)

I've only done a 6k and a 7k that are longer, but my 5k times are still improving.

It's good to learn about cadence, because I see the longer-distance runners talking about it. I will probably go back to that article again and again. Thanks!

Orphia

Diantha21 wrote: »

Hi Orphia, hope you are well and hope you are surviving your hip pain?
I have done my first run as per the Hal Higdon site you mentioned, albeit with a little difficulty with my new runtastic app i downloaded disappearing behind my screensaver...so a little adjustment is necessary for Thursday run, or I will be looking at a runner watch.

I wondered if you noticed that there is an anomollly between the schedule on the page at the bottom of the link and a printer version of the novice schedule? The one I printed off (printer version) has Monday as a stretch and strengthen day, yet on the bottom of the front page it has Monday as a rest day, I suppose it won't actually hurt to stretch at any rate and to do a strengthen day as I can cope with? Perhaps.

One more thing that could be useful was my physio suggestion to me that as soon as I finish a run, for me to use 'ice' so to use frozen pea bag for 10 mins to reduce any chance of injury

Take care

Di

Wow, I hadn't noticed that about the Mondays. I guess either is good - rest or strength/stretch. Perhaps the main page assumes you'll be stretching after/before runs.

I'm not following the plan's non-running days exactly.

I do a 5.5 km walk (or more) every day I don't run, I walk about 18,000 steps a day, and I do Les Mills Body Balance class on Fridays (a mix of yoga, tai chi and Pilates). On my walks I use two weight machines on the walking track which improve upper body strength. I also do a couple of Callanetics/bodyweight exercises for various areas every day. In my Body Balance classes, I've noticed I'm better than most at the flexibility, but worse than most at the strength. Planning to keep doing it to get better!

Orphia

d_thomas02 wrote: »

I'm sure your Doc will tell you this, @Orphis. You'll need to get use to the orthotics before doing anything extreme like running in them. Two hours the first day, four the second... until you can wear them all day comfortably.

I started out with one pair of custom RX orthodics. They have to be rebuilt every couple of years. I had a second pair made before I sent the first back for rebuilding so I wouldn't be without for the ten days it took. Now I have three pairs... but I still don't run in mine. I'm not flopsided, though. YMMV

You tagged somebody else there, but nevermind! I've seen it now. Thanks for your comments!

Yes, the podiatrist said wear them for a few hours on the first day, which I did, then add an hour per day until you're up to about 8 hours a day.

Only then, when my body is used to them, should I try running in them.

They feel really good! But after a few hours I was ready to take them off today. Shanti, shanti.

She said they should last for years. It's the older versions that only last a year or two. Hope that's true.

d_thomas02

@Orphia , I used to replace the original liner with my orthotics. After a few years, I've found that replacing the original liner (or buying new 'flat' liners) on top of the orthotics helps their longevity.

Mine are a carbon fiber compost from heel to just short of the ball of my foot, with a foam and vinyl cover over the whole foot. The foam and vinyl are typically what cracks and wears out, although I have broken the carbon fiber plate once. Do you know what yours are made of?

(Sorry about the typo in your name in previous post.)

Diantha21

Di[/quote]

Wow, I hadn't noticed that about the Mondays. I guess either is good - rest or strength/stretch. Perhaps the main page assumes you'll be stretching after/before runs.

I'm not following the plan's non-running days exactly.

I do a 5.5 km walk (or more) every day I don't run, I walk about 18,000 steps a day, and I do Les Mills Body Balance class on Fridays (a mix of yoga, tai chi and Pilates). On my walks I use two weight machines on the walking track which improve upper body strength. I also do a couple of Callanetics/bodyweight exercises for various areas every day. In my Body Balance classes, I've noticed I'm better than most at the flexibility, but worse than most at the strength. Planning to keep doing it to get better!



[/quote]

Oh wow, awe inspiring! I am so amazed you have time to walk 18000 steps every day!! I have managed 4 days in a row at 8000 steps, yesterday the day I ran I did, 10500 ish steps, but no where near 18000....phew! I also have no clue what the 2 weight machines is you might use when walking on a walking track??? that went right over my head but sounds great. today I have rested, but am also trying desperately to rest my leg/knee so I hope to run or at least walk on Sunday/ either way I will run 4.5k or possibly try to do more in terms of a walk.

I know today I will have to stay focussed as no walk/run means less calories!! Yes I could use some of the deficit that I have stored up like a hamster lol, but I am doing so well, maybe an early night is in order, it is absolutely awful weather here anyway.....and at least then maybe I will be healing...

Take care

Di

Diantha21

Orphia wrote: »

Interesting article, Di!

My boss (and running guru) says if you're increasing your distance, your speed on shorter distances will automatically follow.

I know that since starting in October, my 5k time at parkrun has improved every week. (I first ran in September - 500 metres to start with.)

I've only done a 6k and a 7k that are longer, but my 5k times are still improving.

It's good to learn about cadence, because I see the longer-distance runners talking about it. I will probably go back to that article again and again. Thanks!

Yes I am sure I will refer back to this too Orphia, I am doing the running on the spot, 20 sec, then rest a minute and do this 2 more times, it would be like a kata in martial arts, where the brain remembers the act and so the speed increases when you are actually doing it... I have recorded my time and hope this will improve over the coming months My big difference I guess will be when I lose weight also, giving my limbs a better chance lol

Diantha21

Yippee, don't know how I did it - but I did, I ran 4.5km today first time since before Christmas, although a little slower than the time suggests in my exercise diary, which I did so I could finish!! Actually an average of 8.5mins per Km - so I will not use all my deficit on food suggested. But knee held up, ok!! stretch and Ice!!!

d_thomas02

Orphia

Woo hoo! Yay, @Diantha21 !

Diantha21

4k done today, average pace 8.23. so ever so slightly faster, I did take ibrupofen probably not the best idea, though icing up now for 10mins and let you know the outcome!! 2nd week of Shallow Hal plan lol

Orphia

LOL, good work, Di!

I've now seen quite a few different 10k plans, and think that one is great.

I did 5.3 km on Monday and 4.1 km this morning. I can feel it in my hip a bit now, so no running till parkrun on Saturday.

I've signed up for an 8.6 km funrun on Saturday 27 February... eek!

I expect I'll have to walk a couple of kms of it.

But I did a 10 km funrun in October, and walked a hell of a lot of that, so walking won't worry me.

It's the "fun" part that matters!

Diantha21

OMG....phew, mind you, with all those steps you do daily, you should walk it lol, sorry for the pun...I am sure you will do fine, It always surprises me, even with pain, you just say just a bit longer and keep going and just run through it - don't you! phew?

Orphia

I did it! I ran the full 8.6 km! So happy!

Di will have seen my short recap on FB so I'll spare her from my repeating it.

This now suddenly puts me at the end of the penultimate week of Hal Higdon's novice 10 km plan.

The plan says my next long run should be 10 km!

I might try to do that Monday 7 March.

I thought about repeating the 8.6 km distance, but the course was so hilly, and the temperature quite high (25 Celsius), that I think it was more than sufficient the first time. I should be fine at 7-8 am and on the flat when I normally run.

d_thomas02

Congrats!

Diantha21

Orphia wrote: »

I did it! I ran the full 8.6 km! So happy!

Di will have seen my short recap on FB so I'll spare her from my repeating it.

This now suddenly puts me at the end of the penultimate week of Hal Higdon's novice 10 km plan.

The plan says my next long run should be 10 km!

I might try to do that Monday 7 March.

I thought about repeating the 8.6 km distance, but the course was so hilly, and the temperature quite high (25 Celsius), that I think it was more than sufficient the first time. I should be fine at 7-8 am and on the flat when I normally run.

I did see your pics on fb may I say a hearty congrats!!! I would never tire of hearing it...repeat again if you like!!!
I managed 6.5km today, I am at week 4 today and really happy with my progress - finally no pain....very slow although I am very happy to increase time once I am up there. At the moment it is the distance I want to achieve then build on time, which seems to be gradually getting a little better week by week all on its own...

Great stuff and good luck with the 10km run....whoop whoop!!

Just a thought what is your plan after your 10k run...do you have a plan? perhaps drop down again to a little less perhaps week 7 or 8 and rebuild, I must admit I really like the varied runs during the week!!

Orphia

Thank you, lovely people!

I probably should make a plan for after 10K. My first thought is 15K, but I haven't set it in stone.

Well done on 6.5 km, Di! That's great, and yay for having no pain! Lucky us to be over our injuries!

Diantha21

I still have my x-ray to come back, I have in my head that it wasn't the knee anyway, which Is what I told the doc that my physio said it was needing to lengthen my hamstring and lobiatial band, so what does he do....x-ray my knee lol...argh well.
Great plan to increase to 15k, I will not be with you on that one, if I did I would wait until I retired as I do not physically have the time!! I also think as I am 10yrs older than you, that just increasing speed, elevation and intensity is the way to help my heart health, by doing that Hal Hallinger style by varying what I do 3 times a week.

But way to go you and good luck

Orphia

I ran 10 km!

So happy today!