PCOS + Keto

wesheets

Hi everyone. Baconslave helped me find this group. Thank you!

I hope some informed people can help me some. I must really be tenacious because I've been doing Keto since Jan 4 and have been struggling. I have recalculated my macros a few times on anklr so please don't post that; thank you, though. Really I'm wondering if: a) PCOS is more of a problem with this WOE; b) if my age is it-read: I'm in that peri menopause range and my physiology may be changing; c) if carbs should be the main focus over and above protein.

My cals have vacillated from 1800-1300. When I ate high I was beginning to lose but thought I could do better with lower cals. Lower cals stalled weight loss. I'm 5'7" and 215 (give or take the same 3 lbs on either side). And for the past four weeks I've actually not progressed past those same three pounds up or down. It's literally a mystery to me. When I evaluate my numbers and net carbs it's literally the same across the last six weeks.......I drink 9 glasses of water a day. I exercise a few times a week. My husband thinks it's metabolic. I have a famil history of thyroid issues so that could be something (thoughts?). I will say that despite no weight loss I have zero cravings and other positive benefits as a PCOS-er.

KarlaYP

This woe can be the answer for PCOS for many who stick with it.

Carbs are more important than protein, imo. The carbs are usually the root cause of most of our problems! Keeping fats up to keep hunger at bay is the second most important part of this, imo. Without fats I would feel like I'm starving (who wants that? That's why I avoided diets for so long as it is!). Calories are specific to the person, but I can say that continually low calorie isn't always the answer. If you find you're losing better around 1800 calories, stick with it, and adjust as you go along. If you keep carbs under your set limit, protein moderate, and fats high, you can't go wrong! Best of luck!

Welcome to the group too! It's great to have you here with us!

Dragonwolf

I have PCOS as well, and have found that this is the best way of eating of all, overall. It might take more strict adherence and a little more fiddling to get the right combination for weight loss, but it has also corrected my glucose (100 to 87), insulin (33 to 13), and C-Peptide (2.8 to 2.4 so far), as well as eliminated my acne issues, decreased excess hair issues, and brought my cycle back. All vast improvements that I wouldn't trade for anything.

That said, I did find that I have to go all the way to carnivory to see actual weight loss, anything short of that and I stall out (I actually have logs of the various ways I've eaten, and caloric intake has remained stable, despite differences in weight loss). So, in short, protein isn't much of an issue (I average between 100 and 160g of protein a day, depending largely on total intake, without really trying). It is, however, very important to pay attention to what you eat as much as, if not moreso than, how much you eat.

Keep in mind that this has just been my experience. There are a number of women with PCOS on here and in the P.C.O.Sis group that do various levels of low carb and keto, and many have had great success with different levels of carbs. I think it depends largely on the exact manifestation of your PCOS, but the only way to find out what works for you is to experiment.

As you've found, too little calories are just as counterproductive as too many calories. At 5'7", you should be able to handle at least 1500 calories (to compare, I'm 5'9" and can do about 1700 on sedentary days). Try to get around that much each day, but don't be afraid to go a little over if you're hungry. I've also found that some days, I'm more hungry than others. As long as you don't force yourself to eat on non-hungry days and don't force yourself to not eat on hungry days, it's okay to let your intake swing. Pay attention to weekly averages and you should find it evens out over time.

wesheets

Thanks ladies! I do believe it's trial and error so I'm not too concerned with quitting right now.

For the record when 39 I did lazy Keto-no clue on calories but was focused solely on carbs and lost 10 lbs in about a week and a half.

To your point @dragonwolf I agree that playing around is my best bet with carbs over calories the better focus (both important yes). So hopefully I can work on carbs more and see better results.

Panda_Poptarts

I've also got PCOS in my remaining ovary. I find that staying around the 1400 - 1500 range for me is perfect - I've also got several inches on you

I am an odd one with weight loss. I sweat and I work and I drop 3 pounds, to fluctuate right back up the next day. My body really likes being "scale fat" lol. I find that I tend to lose weight in a 3 week cycle. I am stagnant for 3 weeks or so, then quickly drop 10 pounds. Clearly, there's some water retention there.

Keto has helped with the water retention, although I imagine I will continue struggling to lose weight. Having PCOS DOES make things harder, but it is NOT impossible! I'm down 65 and counting. Feel free to add me if you need a little extra support. We can totally beat this thing!

wesheets

Jessica thanks. I feel I'm fighting an invisible foe. Like you I gain lose lose gain the same 3 lbs either way on the scale.

Yesterday I kept my net carbs under 20. Lost a lb. never mind the three I lost
Over the weekend I gained back over Monday-Tuesday. So.....perhaps carbs are super important.

My husband and I are hoping to go out on a date on the 19th and I intend on eating whatever within reason. So....I guess I'm planning my cheat meal. You know a glass of wine and a piece of sourdough bread would be nice, with a salad and if I want to eat a crouton I will. Small steps. Not every day.

zyxy55

You might consider tracking with a measuring tape as well as the scale. Sometimes you will lose inches but not pounds

KnitOrMiss

Also, be prepared to know that some of your perimenopause may reduce or "regress" to making your body act like it is a younger age. Low carbing has a tendency to "youth" up our bodies.

I'm 39, just shy of 5'4", in the 255-260 ballpark at the moment, and I'm insulin resistant with PCOS and hypothyroidism.

This way of eating/way of life (WOE/WOL) makes me feel human. I don't pass out after eating. I have energy. My brain works. My body slims down in inches and pictures, more so when the scale doesn't move. Many times, the scale moves, inches don't - then the scale doesn't move, and the inches do... So measurements, pictures (no matter how uncomfortable - you'll wish you had them later), and scale are so important.

And I'll be honest. If you have "whatever within reason," you are guaranteed a water retention gain, possible cravings return, crazy symptoms you never realized cleared up, and to slow down your ketogenic adaption and kick yourself out of ketosis.

Having a single bite or sip of something is reasonable. Having a glass of wine AND a piece of sourdough bread AND croutons, you're asking for trouble... I'm just wanting you to have this knowledge so that if you do choose to indulge, you know what you're getting into.

That being said, I'd pick one thing - like enjoy that glass of wine, get plenty of water with it, and make sure you sodium and magnesium up before going to bed.

Or choose to have a couple sip of your husband's wine, a bite or two of sourdough, and a a crouton or two. Success long term on this WOE is determined by consistency. Keeping your carb level consistent across each day (within 10 carbs) helps a lot. Also, on a "lenient day," don't go more than 20 carbs or so above your limit without expecting significant consequences.

And I mainly say this because you're going on a date with your husband. That is very likely to be and SHOULD be at least a semi-regular occurrence. Are you going to cheat yourself on your plan every single time you go out on a date? It's not like this is a 30th wedding anniversary - something that only happens once, etc. Just food for thought.

wesheets

Wow. Well there is a mix of encouragement and judgement here. To condense I will add the following:
I measured 9 locations when I started. After a month the loss was negligible. The weight loss, too, was negligible. Disappointing? Discouraging? Yes and yes. I'm still at it though. Into week 6 at the moment.

In terms of what I will or won't eat-first, I am barely in ketosis. Most of the time I'm in trace. Maybe. And that's with low carbs. Second, I mention foods I may have when I go on a date. It does not mean I will eat them all, or ensure I eat every carb I have in front of me. Simply-I don't have any of those things so my choices are my own and I own them. Third-going on a date is HUGE for us. I have a special needs child plus other children and adult children. We have 7. Time alone is rare and precious. Non-food dates are rare as well (like the movies) so for us, yes it IS like its our 30th. Period. And frankly I plan on including a cheat meal (not cheat day) EVERY MONTH....food is part of culture. I am the chief cook here and my husband also cooks well. Meals around ethnic foods reminds us all of small beginnings where food is all we could offer one another. I have a firm belief that this is the way it should be. Indulging or overeating or consuming high quantities is NOT how it should be. There is a difference. I'm not a spokesperson for others but for me this is how I view eating and food.

Keto dieting is a great way to focus on how my body reacts. Having PCOS is an unfortunate attribute that hinders my progress. I am theorizing that I also have at least hypothyroid if not Hashimotos based off of symptoms and family history. So I may actually be fighting against nature at the moment. Having said that I can attest that my efforts are strong. My husband is concerned for all my effort is not producing
Fruit. I, too, wonder what is going on.

I have relapsed out of my level of
Keto before and know what I'm facing. I can only hope that I can realize progress so my efforts are not for naught.

Panda_Poptarts

@wesheets Chin up! Tiny successes today add up to huge results in the future.

I firmly believe that 3 out of 4 weeks per month in ketosis is going to benefit you more than no weeks in ketosis.

wesheets

Thanks Jessicaesqueda0409!

WIChelle

I also have pcos. It does make losing a bit more tricky. It's trial and error for each of us to find what works. I only follow keto 6.5 days a week because that's the plan that works for me. As you make changes give them a while to see what really makes a difference. There is no one size fits all with pcos.

zyxy55

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be judgemental. Weight loss is hard and really want to encourage you on your journey.

wesheets

PCOS is like nothing others experience. It's not medicinally induced. It has a slurry of complicated affects-heart disease, acne, endocrine, gastro-intestinal, saying nothing of the weight issues and insulin resistance and so on. It's horrible for women. It makes me angry!

So I've lost a lb a day for the last two days. I call that "on a roll".....lol. I'm guessing my singular focus on carbs has helped. I won't be confined until I've seen a loss beyond the next 2. Goals.

wesheets

Trying to copy and paste the post in its entirety is not working right now

inspirationstation

I have PCOS, Type 2, and I am standing on the precipice of 44 years of age. I find that this is the ONLY way to eat for me. My BS is stable, I have energy, I ovulate and menustrate every month on the dot now.

Basically, my body likes it. I still have more weight to lose and it comes off more slowly for me than others, but it is coming off. And like someone mentioned above, I look like I weigh less than I really do. Losing inches is equally important.

Stick with it. If there is one thing that I have found is that everyone has a different path on this WOE. Ups and downs do happen for various reasons, but the benefits far outweigh the alternatives.

Sunny_Bunny_

I'm sorry you felt you were being judged. I don't see the warnings you were offered that way at all. But I do understand how it could be seen that way.
This journey is an internal emotional battle for all of us to varying degrees and in different ways. Allowing regular cheats works for some people, but the warning was not to say "do not cheat", it was to say, "be aware that it will likely affect forward progress and possibly make you not feel so great the next day or so". Just so that you can be prepared. Since lack of results is discouraging and disappointing, like you said, nobody wants to see a small cheat create any of those feelings for you. We all just want the most success possible for each other. Sometimes a different perspective can help us identify a possible personal hurdle.

I'm hesitant to add any warning because I truly don't have any judgement in what I say. I only want everyone to get all the results they are looking for and more and I will go to pretty great lengths digging up links to share and confirming information that I'm sharing if I think it's helpful for someone.
With that said, I just wanted to say that all of the things you mentioned above about enjoying cultural foods and going on food dates... Are totally ok and there's no reason to not do any of those things. I don't think anyone would ever suggest not to. All of us here still do all of those things. We just don't include the foods that don't fit our personal woe, which is different to some degree for each of us. If you decide that you want to eat Keto for example, you can still do that on a dinner date and while eating ethnic foods. It's just a matter of the foods chosen. But, it's ok if you choose to allow those occasions to be cheats too. Nobody will judge you for it. Seriously. There are some people that participate in our group here that do that sometimes. Nobody ever starts preaching to them. I promise. The important thing to realize though, is that allowing that kind of flexibility does come with a consequence and when someone talks about being disappointed and discouraged with results and also talks about allowing cheats... The behavior contradicts the expectations. So, offering advice to be cautious with the behavior OR to adjust the expectation is intended to help you. It's being supportive of your goal. But it can be hard to hear.

KarlaYP

Another issue with being low carb for a while, and then having a higher carb meal can cause some very uncomfortable GI distress!'m sorry you felt judgement of any kind!

wesheets

"Nobody ever starts preaching to them. I promise. The important thing to realize though, is that allowing that kind of flexibility does come with a consequence and when someone talks about being disappointed and discouraged with results and also talks about allowing cheats... The behavior contradicts the expectations"

So....preachy but not preachy.

I'm not here to continually justify my actions or my beliefs, thoughts, etc. I'm simply sharing a journey. I'm a smart cookie. I'll figure it out.

-Discouraged about outcomes when following a WOE is one thing.

-Discussing choosing a different eating plan for a meal is something else entirely.

They are mutually exclusive in my world. If it hasn't been clear: I KNOW what the outcome for my GI track and the scale will be when/if I choose to eat carbs, and so therefore "reminding" me that I have conflicting expectations and behavior actually assumes knowledge of what I do daily. Gosh.....I'm not living in a fantasy world here.

My goal in sharing anything is simply cathartic. I appreciate the support, I do. This journey is tough. Each person has a threshold. Some stand at the precipice of success, others are far from it. Some have a physiology that appreciates the change to a LCHF diet, others gaff at the attempt.

Thanks @WIchelle, @zyxy55, @Inspirationstation, @Karlottap, @Sunny_Bunny_.

Sunny_Bunny_

wesheets wrote: »

Hi everyone. Baconslave helped me find this group. Thank you!

I hope some informed people can help me some. I must really be tenacious because I've been doing Keto since Jan 4 and have been struggling. I have recalculated my macros a few times on anklr so please don't post that; thank you, though. Really I'm wondering if: a) PCOS is more of a problem with this WOE; b) if my age is it-read: I'm in that peri menopause range and my physiology may be changing; c) if carbs should be the main focus over and above protein.

My cals have vacillated from 1800-1300. When I ate high I was beginning to lose but thought I could do better with lower cals. Lower cals stalled weight loss. I'm 5'7" and 215 (give or take the same 3 lbs on either side). And for the past four weeks I've actually not progressed past those same three pounds up or down. It's literally a mystery to me. When I evaluate my numbers and net carbs it's literally the same across the last six weeks.......I drink 9 glasses of water a day. I exercise a few times a week. My husband thinks it's metabolic. I have a famil history of thyroid issues so that could be something (thoughts?). I will say that despite no weight loss I have zero cravings and other positive benefits as a PCOS-er.

I thought you were looking for possible answers to why you're struggling and lacking results.

On the specific items you mentioned:
A: This woe is highly effective for PCOS since there is an insulin resistant, metabolic malfunction connection.
B: I've always thought that the metabolism boosting effects made this a perfect woe for women as we get older and I recently discovered that my gynecologist was thrilled when she found out this was how I eat and told me that she recommends it to all of her patients that appear to have weight or metabolic issues, especially as they are around 40.
C: IF your goal is to achieve ketosis, it is important to maintain a certain carb and protein threshold. People with any metabolic issues, often find that restricting carbs and protein even further is necessary for results. A good starting point is 20g total maximum carbs and .6g protein per pound of lean body mass. Experimenting with these levels after a good two week start might reveal that carbs and/or protein at a higher level either will or will not hinder results.

I'm not sure how to give the information you're looking for without being presumed to be preaching.
I was very careful with my wording before because of your reaction to the previous advice. I tried to approach it sensitively but still honestly.
Again, I mean to do nothing but prove to be supportive and helpful to you.

wesheets wrote: »

"Nobody ever starts preaching to them. I promise. The important thing to realize though, is that allowing that kind of flexibility does come with a consequence and when someone talks about being disappointed and discouraged with results and also talks about allowing cheats... The behavior contradicts the expectations"

So....preachy but not preachy.

I'm not here to continually justify my actions or my beliefs, thoughts, etc. I'm simply sharing a journey. I'm a smart cookie. I'll figure it out.

-Discouraged about outcomes when following a WOE is one thing.

-Discussing choosing a different eating plan for a meal is something else entirely.

They are mutually exclusive in my world. If it hasn't been clear: I KNOW what the outcome for my GI track and the scale will be when/if I choose to eat carbs, and so therefore "reminding" me that I have conflicting expectations and behavior actually assumes knowledge of what I do daily. Gosh.....I'm not living in a fantasy world here.

My goal in sharing anything is simply cathartic. I appreciate the support, I do. This journey is tough. Each person has a threshold. Some stand at the precipice of success, others are far from it. Some have a physiology that appreciates the change to a LCHF diet, others gaff at the attempt.

Thanks @WIchelle, @zyxy55, @Inspirationstation, @Karlottap, @Sunny_Bunny_.

No one expects you to justify anything. People post on here all the time about cheats and everyone immediately chimes in that they shouldn't worry about the setback they are feeling and that it was just one meal or one day and it's ok. It happens
But, if you're lacking results and including cheats, well... It has to at least be considered part of the cause. Especially with metabolic concerns.
That's just how the body works. Saying that isn't a judgement. It's like saying you need more sodium to prevent electrolyte loss... It's not a judgement that you stink at eating salt. It's just the way it works. "Keto flu" symptoms equal low sodium. Low sodium means not eating enough sodium. It's a possible answer to the issue. Not a judgement.

blackmantis

Drop the carbs (20g/-) veggies only and sugar increase your fats to 200grams or more and stay under 50grams of protein a day. Don't worry about counting calories your low calorie eating screwed up your metabolic system. Take out the dairy and nuts and give it 3-6 more weeks.

KnitOrMiss

wesheets wrote: »

Wow. Well there is a mix of encouragement and judgement here. To condense I will add the following:
I measured 9 locations when I started. After a month the loss was negligible. The weight loss, too, was negligible. Disappointing? Discouraging? Yes and yes. I'm still at it though. Into week 6 at the moment.

In terms of what I will or won't eat-first, I am barely in ketosis. Most of the time I'm in trace. Maybe. And that's with low carbs. Second, I mention foods I may have when I go on a date. It does not mean I will eat them all, or ensure I eat every carb I have in front of me. Simply-I don't have any of those things so my choices are my own and I own them. Third-going on a date is HUGE for us. I have a special needs child plus other children and adult children. We have 7. Time alone is rare and precious. Non-food dates are rare as well (like the movies) so for us, yes it IS like its our 30th. Period. And frankly I plan on including a cheat meal (not cheat day) EVERY MONTH....food is part of culture. I am the chief cook here and my husband also cooks well. Meals around ethnic foods reminds us all of small beginnings where food is all we could offer one another. I have a firm belief that this is the way it should be. Indulging or overeating or consuming high quantities is NOT how it should be. There is a difference. I'm not a spokesperson for others but for me this is how I view eating and food.

Keto dieting is a great way to focus on how my body reacts. Having PCOS is an unfortunate attribute that hinders my progress. I am theorizing that I also have at least hypothyroid if not Hashimotos based off of symptoms and family history. So I may actually be fighting against nature at the moment. Having said that I can attest that my efforts are strong. My husband is concerned for all my effort is not producing
Fruit. I, too, wonder what is going on.

I have relapsed out of my level of
Keto before and know what I'm facing. I can only hope that I can realize progress so my efforts are not for naught.

@wesheets First of all, please accept my apology. I am very passionate about my own struggles, and I tend to forget how intensely I can come across in my communications. Since we have similar health issues and such, I was trying to share my own struggles that I've encountered low carbing, and I'm in a rough stage right now personally, and it made me very chaotic in my communication - and very ineffective.

As @Sunny_Bunny_ mentioned I was not intending to judge. We all have to find a way to make dietary consumption fit into our lives - because heck, we've got to eat no matter what. I frequently say that we fight like heck so hard most of the time so that the occasional blip only sets us back a short distance, not miles and miles. I also do know that our perceptions of food and meaning and all of that change as we change, change as we learn things we didn't know before, etc.

I was intending to share a perspective - that as you also say, small portions and reasonable indulgences are a normal part of life - but most people don't keep it to that. "Whatever within reason" is a very relative term - meaning a very different thing to very different people.

You sound like a very level-headed woman, and you seem to have a good handle on your plan. Again, I only intended to offer some additional "food for thought" for you to think about, decide how or if it even applies to you, and discard what has no bearing whatsoever. Many times, others will give me advice, and only one tiny fragment applies to me. Other times, it seems like they could have written the example ABOUT ME.

I did not intend to offend in any way, and I'm sorry you felt judged. It's the situation where if I can save anyone even a tiny piece of the struggles I've fought through by sharing my own miserable experiences, I'm happy to do so. That being said, you've gotten a huge amount of other great advice here.

Good luck on your plans and enjoy your date! It's so lovely to see those things we sometimes forget to celebrate.

randomventures

Occasionally women especially 40 plus, with diagnosed metabolic imbalances e.g. Hypothyroidism do better on higher net carbs: approx 30g - 50g per day. The reason is not know as yet, although it's potentially the way all the hormone axis interact in the body. With any woe, it can take the body some time to adjust and do what it is supposed to do. At 50g per day weight loss is accepted to be slower, however you do become fat adapted. This is an issue I've seen with quite a few of my patients.
@wesheets we're all individuals and you've done a brilliant job of trying to find out what is right for you. Keep going, I know it's frustrating at times, you will get there! As others have said LCHF is probably the optimal way for any woman with PCOS to loose weight.

WIChelle

To the OP. Have you discussed with your Dr or tried Metformin? It is very effective for many with PCOS. If it hadn't depleted my b12 so badly I would have stayed on it.

wesheets

Thanks ladies!! It's definitely a journey and often a frustrating one at that!

@randomventures that is interesting. So, I was doing 30-50 net carbs. It basically ensured NO loss after the first week, and gain beyond that! It was so frustrating. Now if I keep my carbs around 20-25 (less if I can) then I DO lose weight. The higher number was tried for a solid month plus so I'm CERTAIN it's not what my body prefers. All that to say: if I end up with hypo I may be an anomaly to your experience!! We'll see....

Lost another 1.5 lbs overnight but I also wake up famished. That is not my typical and I get a twinge of "I'm starving" comes in.....and we all know how that can sabotage PURPOSED dieting.

Doctor visit: I have spoken of seeing a doctor but have not simply because we are changing insurance. I want to (need to) wait so that I begin with the new insurance-if I call for an appointment I don't have the new insurance info yet. When I do go I will be sure to ask about a few things. If I do end up with a thyroid issue (my theory based on symptoms and family history) then that won't necessarily be a game changer but at least I'll know what's what.

Worked out just 25 minutes yesterday with a new app. When I simply can't workout it's nice to have a tough, quick workout. The app is Sworkit recommended by one of my MFP pals. I like it so far and it's free

wesheets

The bottom of my post was cut off. So....

Have a good weekend friends. We are going to have rib eyes tonight! WOOP!!

fatchimom

Welcome! I'm glad you're here. This is a wonderful, supportive, informative group.

randomventures

@wesheets my comment was only an idea as I wasn't sure what your carb level was. You've done the most important thing and that is work out what is good for you. Enjoy your rib eye!

ldmoor

You have gotten a lot of good advice so far, so I'll just note what my experience has been so you know you aren't the only one. I've low carbed for about 15 years, but had to go under 50 carbs to budge any weight, and then it was about a pound a month. After 6 months, I dropped down to 20 and had some limited success. But it wasn't until I started charting my food, that I found out I wasn't eating enough and actually had to increase my intake to meet a 1500-1800 cal a day minimum. At that point, I finally was able to lose fairly steadily - but even then it was less than 3 pounds a month.

Everyone loses at different levels of carbs and calories, and at different speeds. Could be you just need to shake things up a little to find where your body is most comfortable. For me, it was actually eating enough food, as my intake just wasn't high enough.

wesheets

@ldmoor thank you!

I think being older and maybe peri menopausal is adding to the mystery. I'm eating 12-1500 calories usually 1300. However I hear you. It's depressing to have such LOW and SLOW weight
Loss but I DO hear you.

I shook it up yesterday with high carbs. I had about 2400 cals over my TDEE OF 2100.

GUH. Just GUH. Lol.

Christine_72

wesheets wrote: »

@ldmoor thank you!

I think being older and maybe peri menopausal is adding to the mystery. I'm eating 12-1500 calories usually 1300. However I hear you. It's depressing to have such LOW and SLOW weight
Loss but I DO hear you.

I shook it up yesterday with high carbs. I had about 2400 cals over my TDEE OF 2100.

GUH. Just GUH. Lol.

Ooh I'd be interested to see the repercussions of this, positive or negative.