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How Many Carbs?

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  • camtosh
    camtosh Posts: 898 Member
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    wabmester wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    Aha! Interesting tip..... Any idea why carbs > 30g leads to hungry and snacky?

    Here's the carb-insulin hypothesis in a single slide (wish I could find a better image):

    BqrEf0eCEAIDCDJ.jpg

    On the left is the glycemic response. Somewhat different for each us, but whenever you have a glucose dip, the theory says it stimulates hunger.

    On the right is the effect of insulin levels on fat oxidation. You can see how sensitive it is at the lower levels. The more you can reduce insulin, the more fat you'll metabolize.

    So the trick is finding the two curves that work well for you. The more insulin resistant you are, the more you'll need to restrict carbs.

    I just saw that chart in something I read this week, but can't find it now.... but here is a site that has a similar one, scroll down a bit: http://www.drcate.com/how-much-carbohydrate-do-you-need-to-eat-per-day/

  • auntstephie321
    auntstephie321 Posts: 3,586 Member
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    sault_girl wrote: »
    I think if you ever experience the feeling of low blood sugar, the shaky, gotta eat right now or I'm gonna die feeling, it's a pretty safe assumption there's some insulin resistance going on.

    Yes to this. And sadly, people will not believe you when you tell them it's about blood sugar highs and lows... My coworker has asked me, "I never see you snacking on anything, how do you make it to lunch or through the afternoon?" she always has her "healthy snacks" at her desk (a fruit smoothie, a bag of grapes, a package of crackers, yogurt and berries).

    The improvement in blood sugar high & lows is the biggest thing eating low carb has fixed for me. I used to have to eat every 2.5-3hours OR I WAS GOING TO DIE. Now I can go however long I need to... usually it's about 8-10 hours between my lunch and dinner most days and that's no problem.

    Hmmm, I used to see spots after exercise and get bad headaches if I didn't eat after working out. I thought it was the drop in blood sugar. My triglyceride levels measured low at old WOE (<45 but the test couldn't measure below that so not sure how low) so I think that means I don't have IR issues. Right?
    Anyway, wondering if it was the lack of sodium causing the problem. Thinking here...

    Do you have low bp? That happens to me and it drops when I exercise.
  • wabmester
    wabmester Posts: 2,748 Member
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    My former doc just posted some great charts. Here's one on markers for insulin resistance:

    Cb32hwWUkAAAvQF.jpg

    High glucose only occurs in the late stages.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
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    RalfLott wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    I think if you ever experience the feeling of low blood sugar, the shaky, gotta eat right now or I'm gonna die feeling, it's a pretty safe assumption there's some insulin resistance going on.

    ****

    Fast forward and she's T2D and 100+ pounds heavier and still won't listen to me. :/

    Oy, vay.

    I can't recall ever feeling that I was experiencing a high or low , whether it was blood pressure, glucose, or lipids.

    It just is what it is.... but what it is is better than what it isn't, which is what it was.

    Ok Dr Suess!
    I'm not sure what you're talking about. For realz. Lol

    Haha (I think...). Just saying I have never experienced any physical feeling associated with BG, BP or lipids, but they're all better than they were since I started low-carbing!

    I see.
    Maybe your swings weren't real dramatic. I'm assuming you have a diagnosis then? I think many people don't even get their diagnosis until things get that noticeable.

    I was diagnosed about 15 years ago, and my swings were quite dramatic at the time. In the meantime my lows don't get below 80 or my highs above around 180.

    I have never been on any medications that tend toward hypoglycemia. I don't seem to be able to shake the metformin habit. I suspect even if I ate a carb-negative diet (whatever that is) I would still be hooked!

    How long have you been low carb?
    I think getting the major swings under control says a lot about the progress you've made. Maybe metformin' days will be numbered. Just have to wait and see. :smile:

    It's been < 50g net carb for a while but < 20g only for several months.

    The metformin seems to work pretty well, but I go through enough generic imodium to stop a freight train!
  • DorkothyParker
    DorkothyParker Posts: 618 Member
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    I do have low BP. Not sure if there is much to be done on that.
  • LowCarbInScotland
    LowCarbInScotland Posts: 1,027 Member
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    RalfLott wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    I think if you ever experience the feeling of low blood sugar, the shaky, gotta eat right now or I'm gonna die feeling, it's a pretty safe assumption there's some insulin resistance going on.

    ****

    Fast forward and she's T2D and 100+ pounds heavier and still won't listen to me. :/

    Oy, vay.

    I can't recall ever feeling that I was experiencing a high or low , whether it was blood pressure, glucose, or lipids.

    It just is what it is.... but what it is is better than what it isn't, which is what it was.

    Ok Dr Suess!
    I'm not sure what you're talking about. For realz. Lol

    Haha (I think...). Just saying I have never experienced any physical feeling associated with BG, BP or lipids, but they're all better than they were since I started low-carbing!

    I see.
    Maybe your swings weren't real dramatic. I'm assuming you have a diagnosis then? I think many people don't even get their diagnosis until things get that noticeable.

    I was diagnosed about 15 years ago, and my swings were quite dramatic at the time. In the meantime my lows don't get below 80 or my highs above around 180.

    I have never been on any medications that tend toward hypoglycemia. I don't seem to be able to shake the metformin habit. I suspect even if I ate a carb-negative diet (whatever that is) I would still be hooked!

    How long have you been low carb?
    I think getting the major swings under control says a lot about the progress you've made. Maybe metformin' days will be numbered. Just have to wait and see. :smile:

    It's been < 50g net carb for a while but < 20g only for several months.

    The metformin seems to work pretty well, but I go through enough generic imodium to stop a freight train!

    I've found that the source of carbs makes a big difference too and the effect of various carb sources seems to vary significantly from one person to the next. I found the best way for me to understand the effect of various carbs on my blood sugar was to go as close to carnivore as I could get (I still ate eggs, cream and one serving of cheese) and add back in vegetables slowly with only one new one at a time. Likewise with any fake food carbs or artificial sweeteners.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited February 2016
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    I've found that the source of carbs makes a big difference too and the effect of various carb sources seems to vary significantly from one person to the next. I found the best way for me to understand the effect of various carbs on my blood sugar was to go as close to carnivore as I could get (I still ate eggs, cream and one serving of cheese) and add back in vegetables slowly with only one new one at a time. Likewise with any fake food carbs or artificial sweeteners.

    Aha! That method makes sense, as arduous as it sounds.

    A couple questions, if I might....

    - I realize your results may not apply to anyone else, but I'm curious what happened when you first started the carnivore craze - is it accurate to assume that the presence of the dairy items didn't have any undesirable effect, or you would have dropped them? How many carbs did you consume at this control level?

    - Any surprises? For example, responses that seemed at odds with the published GI/GL lists?

    Thanks much. Looks like I've got some new experiments in my future.

  • LowCarbInScotland
    LowCarbInScotland Posts: 1,027 Member
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    Hi @RalfLott I don't have any type of dairy intolerance and as long as I don't drink a glass of milk, which has a lot of sugar in it, it doesn't affect my blood sugar. However, like many others, if I eat too much cheese, it will cause constipation when I'm not eating much in the way of bulking foods and fiber.

    I've been down as low as 5 carbs a day, which generally comes from cream in my coffee, cheese and seasonings (i.e. garlic, ginger, curry powder). That is not where I like to be though as I do enjoy eating vegetables and would never give them up permanently. I'm happy to sit at about 20 total carbs, that gives me enough veg to make my meals enjoyable.

    I've done a lot of experimentation on myself and the most notable thing for me is that even at very low carb levels (5g total), I still need to inject the same amount of long-lasting insulin as I would at 20g total carbs otherwise my blood sugar gets higher than I'm comfortable with. High protein has affected my blood sugar negatively in the past, so I've tried keeping my protein to 50% as many grams as my fat intake (it's normally pretty even in terms of grams) and that still doesn't lower my blood glucose any further. And IF causes my blood glucose to rise considerably.

    Veg-wise I've found I can eat just about any non-starchy veg as long as I keep it under 15 total carbs for the day (I need the other 5 for my cream, cheese & seasonings) and as long as I keep it to a maximum of 7-8 grams of sugar I'm okay. The sugar grams seem to affect me more than the fiber. Veg higher in sugar will crank my blood sugar up more than veg high in fiber will keep it low, but that doesn't mean I can't eat carrots, onions, beets, etc. I just have to eat them in the right portions. I do admit, I often throw veg away because I can't get through it quickly enough before it goes bad because I like veg variety. It may take me 4 nights of stir-fry to get through one carrot and I tend to buy shallots and spring onions instead of a vidalia onion because I won't have to throw so much away.

    I have to avoid the artificial sweeteners and I'm back to whole foods only, no pre-made food stuff as all of that raises my blood sugar and stalls my weight loss now (I was fine for the first couple of months, losing steadily, but then I hit a brick wall that quickly crumbled when I ditched a few bad low-carb habits).

    I think the most important thing to remember is that even though none of us are "special flowers" lol, we're all different and are not necessarily going to respond the same way as someone else, and with that in mind, we need to take the time to track and understand our body's responses to various inputs. And, furthermore, our responses may very well change over time as our bodies change with this new woe.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
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    I think the most important thing to remember is that even though none of us are "special flowers" lol, we're all different and are not necessarily going to respond the same way as someone else, and with that in mind, we need to take the time to track and understand our body's responses to various inputs. And, furthermore, our responses may very well change over time as our bodies change with this new woe.

    Thanks for taking the time to share your approach.

    One certainty in an ocean of huh? would seem to be that the powers above (or below) dealt us a few extra cards to keep things interesting!