So bloody sick of...
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This is one of my favorite high fat recipes - and I think the chicken could easily be swapped out for paneer or a similar cheese (or maybe even hard boiled egg!). It says 6 servings, but to me, it makes more, so the carbs can be cut down further (I think it was 9, 8 net when I calculated it), and you can probably get away with less onion too, if that helps. Mainly, the sauce is the thing that is wonderful about this recipe - it's basically made of HWC, butter, tomato sauce, and curry (I have never been able to find tandoori masala, so I just use curry powder, which I add straight to the sauce).
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/141169/easy-indian-butter-chicken/?internalSource=search result&referringContentType=search results
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Oh, and I second the Soul Bread suggestion. I made some grilled cheese with it yesterday and it was AMAZING!
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Cheese, eggs, butter and coconut oil. My calorie intake is down just because I can't face another meal of these items. . . . Any suggestions for any other lacto-ovo vegetarian keto foods that work well with my macros? (5% total carbs, 75% fats, 20% protein). I'm happy on keto otherwise, but man, soooooo sick of these foods!!
Here is a chart that might give you some ideas. http://lowcarbediem.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Zero-Carb-Foods-Low-Carbe-Diem.jpg I'd also add olives to the list.
Ultimately, though, something has to give. Since you do not eat an entire category of foods, you may have to either put up with being sick of the ones you do eat - or (if ketosis is your goal), test how much higher you can go and still remain in ketosis. It is likely to be closer to 50 gross than 20.0 -
I'm afraid so many of the suggestions given, while VERY appreciated, will leave me having significantly more carbs than I have now. I am on a very low carb keto diet, aiming for a max of 20 total carbs per day, so nuts, vegetables, etc., are pretty much out except for treats.
I see your point. Just staying <50 carbs gross so nuts are a huge part of my WOE. While our macros are similar I do not limit any food choices except my carb count to stay in nutritional ketosis. Even then I know was you are talking about when it comes to options.
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DorkothyParker wrote: »When you say 20 total, do you mean 20 net? There is no advantage to being that low carb compared to 20 net, unless you are doing some kind of elimination diet.
No, I mean 20 total. There are differing opinions as to whether net carbs or total carbs should be used as a measure - I use total carbs.
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Since the vegetarian part of your diet is a given, I wonder if I can ask why you are so restrictive of the carbs? What is the reason that you decided to be under 20 carbs/day? This might be the sticking point that leaves you a very monotonous diet.
This is the keto diet. I didn't make it up, I just follow it!0 -
Thank you again, everyone, but I was just looking for ideas as to different recipes and food that would fit within my dietary restrictions - I am not looking to change my dietary restrictions at the current time.0
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This is one of my favorite high fat recipes - and I think the chicken could easily be swapped out for paneer or a similar cheese (or maybe even hard boiled egg!). It says 6 servings, but to me, it makes more, so the carbs can be cut down further (I think it was 9, 8 net when I calculated it), and you can probably get away with less onion too, if that helps. Mainly, the sauce is the thing that is wonderful about this recipe - it's basically made of HWC, butter, tomato sauce, and curry (I have never been able to find tandoori masala, so I just use curry powder, which I add straight to the sauce).
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/141169/easy-indian-butter-chicken/?internalSource=search result&referringContentType=search results
Thank you so much!0 -
Since the vegetarian part of your diet is a given, I wonder if I can ask why you are so restrictive of the carbs? What is the reason that you decided to be under 20 carbs/day? This might be the sticking point that leaves you a very monotonous diet.
This is the keto diet. I didn't make it up, I just follow it!
Are you keto for a medical issue? If not you may be able to raise your carb ceiling.
Unless someone is on keto for epilepsy or other medical issues (they'll have rigid macros in those cases), the keto diet works up to 50g for most people. Athletes tend to have increased tolerance to carbs so they may be able to stay in ketosis at higher grams than even that. 20g is preferred to get you into ketosis faster in the beginning. Many people find that they stay that low because they either like it or find their cravings stay dead better that low. Or they may lose faster. But it may not affect loss rate at all. Rate of weightloss if different for different people, regardless of their WOE. Or because they think they'll get a keto-trophy for being hardcore. There isn't one, btw.
I'll have been keto for 2 years on June 3, I'm just staying under 50g right now. I'm still keto.
Point being, once you are keto-adapted, you can start messing with your gram level if you need to and raise it. Just keep it below 50g. You can mess with it before then, it just takes a little longer to become adapted. And if it isn't a race...a few more days isn't going to make or break anyone.
If you have a blood ketone meter or a ketone breathalyzer, you can fine tune even further and pinpoint the exact point you exceed your carb threshold.
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Since the vegetarian part of your diet is a given, I wonder if I can ask why you are so restrictive of the carbs? What is the reason that you decided to be under 20 carbs/day? This might be the sticking point that leaves you a very monotonous diet.
This is the keto diet. I didn't make it up, I just follow it!
You didn't make it up, but you're also not following it either. Lyle McDonald didn't make it up, but he wrote "The Book" on it, and he uses net carbs and up to 50 grams a day. Actually, the carb amounts he discusses vary and even 60 grams seem to work for many. It would be easy to maintain ketosis at 50 total grams a day. It would probably be easy at nearly double that.
Volek and Phinney also didn't make up the keto diet, but they have written a comprehensive guide to it. They're quite comfortable with net carbs and 50 grams of net also.
Actually, almost every source I have says that 50 grams is usually a safe working amount for the upper limit of keto. The numbers 20 and 25 are used as a "for sure" number to account for the fact the most newbs don't realize how many carbs are in everything we eat.
Is it any coincidence that your vegetarianism and eating disorder started at the same time? You claim to be 10 years in remission after 20 years of an eating disorder, and that you've been vegetarian for 30 years. Perhaps you're not as recovered as you want us to believe. This diet plan you have yourself on is not going to work, is extremely restrictive, and you're going to need to bend on something. I'm fine if you're stuck with the vegetarian thing, but you need to get over the "20 total grams" nonsense. That is not what it means to be keto. It is a misinterpretation of the guidelines.0 -
I'll say again: I can get behind vegetarian low carbers. COMPLETELY. But I don't believe that a keto vegetarian with 20 total carbs is sustainable, or necessary at all.0
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Thank you again, everyone, but I was just looking for ideas as to different recipes and food that would fit within my dietary restrictions - I am not looking to change my dietary restrictions at the current time.
The challenge in responding is that there really are virtually no suggestions anyone can offer that would be responsive to your original request: "Any suggestions for any other lacto-ovo vegetarian keto foods that work well with my macros?"
All of us who have been around the block can see the Mack Truck coming at you (dropping out because the diet is so unpalatable that you can't make yourself eat) - and can see the alternate route you can take to avoid the Mack Truck (doing enough research and/or personal testing to know what is really required for YOU to stay in ketosis so you can maximize your food choices to make the diet more palatable).
You are expressing extreme frustration with "facing another meal" of "Cheese, eggs, butter and coconut oil," and admit to a 1200 calorie deficit yesterday because you could not face the meal. You have also rejected every single option offered except those things you say you can't stand. And, from what you say, you seem to be rejecting them based on an ultraconservative notion that you must stay under 20 total grams of carbs to follow a keto diet - not on how your body is responding to what you are eating. ("This is the keto diet. I didn't make it up, I just follow it!")
It's obviously up to you - but if I was frustrated to point of being unable to eat, I would welcome real information that eating a ketogenic diet (the only barrier you've mentioned) does not require such severe limitations so I could expand my table and make it palatable.0 -
We found "The New Atkins Made Easy" gave a keto vegetarian option and recipes.
However, like the others here, I am a little confused over your application of the diet. Atkins for Vegetarians says:
"If you're a vegetarian, I recommend that you start Atkins in Phase 2 (Balancing), at 20-30 grams of Net Carbs a day so that you can get sufficient protein. Most vegetarian sources of protein also contain carbs, unlike most animal products. ... Induction (should) include nuts and seeds from the start."
Recommended foods include: nuts, seeds (I love hemp seeds), tofu and tofu products, legumes and many different veggies.
On another keto site that I belong to, the vegetarian members (and other members too) all eat to around 50 net carbs daily and are having success at weight loss. They are following Dr Westman at Duke University who recommends protein source at every meal, and 2 cups salad and 1 cup cooked veggies each day with fat added to balance macros.
Do watch your proteins. Too little protein over time will affect your health.
I have found a really good hemp seed recipe at ruled.me; this might meet your macros and protein needs.
I hope you are through the induction phase shortly so that you can add more foods.0 -
Cheese, eggs, butter and coconut oil. My calorie intake is down just because I can't face another meal of these items. I had a 1200 calorie deficit yesterday because I just couldn't make myself eat what I needed to eat. I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian on keto, and my macros are good (usually below 10g total carbs and only 20-25g protein at any particular meal) and I'd like to keep them that way. Any suggestions for any other lacto-ovo vegetarian keto foods that work well with my macros? (5% total carbs, 75% fats, 20% protein). I'm happy on keto otherwise, but man, soooooo sick of these foods!!
I fully understand that being a vegetarian is (for many) more than just a choice of what to eat. I was one myself for close to 30 years too. So I know that it becomes who you are, not just what you eat.
I tried vegetarian keto I was unable to do it, all the foods I really liked to eat were out and what I could eat was not food I particularly liked. It was not sustainable and I felt very much like you do now (and I was aiming for 50g!). It was a difficult decision to start eating meat but my body clearly said it was the right decision for me. I still don't like meat but I eat it every day. I can eat food that I don't like and believe it sustainable because I feel nourished and without cravings and all my health markers have improved. I actually don't think the way I liked food before was healthy, it was just too important a part of my life. Now food is fuel, nourishment and medicine, as it should be. And carbs are treats, just as they should be.
I'm not saying you need to go the same way, you've made clear you're not interested in changing your woe and apparently there are many that DO manage vegetarian keto. I'm just trying to explain that, if you want to succeed you need to find food that gives you that feeling of nourishment because that's the only way your body will not rebel against what you are trying to do. When you "can't face another meal" of the only foods you allow yourself to eat that's a big sign that you need to make some changes. And if, after a few days with such a large calorie deficit you still feel the same and hunger doesn't kick in you're heading for trouble.
But, if you want suggestions and help, you'll need to be a bit more open about the reasoning behind your limitations. What do you want to accomplish? Why are you being this restrict? Why have you chosen those foods as the only you're "allowed"? Why so little protein? Do you have lab tests? Do you have a medical condition that you're trying to solve this way? Are you being accompanied by a doctor or on your own? It may feel like too much to share but, like others said, if we don't understand what you're trying to do and why, it's not possible to make any useful suggestions.
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I have to admit that I am a little disturbed to be feeling so under attack by the most recent posters on this thread and am considering leaving the forum. I had assumed that this was a forum that was about helping people achieve their goals, not about getting people to eat the way they assume is correct. Certainly, if there were no ideas to offer in response to my request for suggestions, there was no need to respond to the discussion. At no point did I request that people tell me whether my WOE was okay with them.
Nonetheless, I will try to answer some of the questions that people are posting:- I am not yet completely keto-adapted
- I prefer to stay at 20g total- not net- carbs because I did not start seeing any results until I had lowered my carbs to that level - and this is the level preferred by a great many keto experts, according to my research. I am not following Atkins, so will not be working within an induction phase paradigm. Everyone is different, and apparently, my body responds best to very low carbs. Sucks to be me, no doubt.
- I have no medical conditions to solve; I am completely healthy.
- I feel absolutely no need to obfuscate over the extent to which I have gotten over my eating disorder. I haven't thrown up in ten years. End of story, it's done. I don't lie about this *kitten* - not anymore.
- I do not see a connection between my vegetarianism and bulimia
- I get 80-100g of protein a day; I am not aiming for low protein, I am aiming for moderate protein. In accordance with keto, I aim for no more than 25g of protein at any one meal, so that excess protein is not converted to glucose.
- I am not uninformed about dietary needs; although I have posted about my eating disorder, I have not posted information about the rest of my history, but please rest assured that I have a great deal of knowledge about human nutrition.
- Keto is inherently an extreme way of eating. Vegetarian keto is a bit more restrictive than non-vegetarian keto, but it is only a matter of degrees. This is an experiment. It may not ultimately work, and that's fine. Lots of things don't. I don't need other people telling me what to eat and what not to eat - my body, my choice. I was requesting ideas, not judgement.
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I have to admit that I am a little disturbed to be feeling so under attack by the most recent posters on this thread and am considering leaving the forum. I had assumed that this was a forum that was about helping people achieve their goals, not about getting people to eat the way they assume is correct. Certainly, if there were no ideas to offer in response to my request for suggestions, there was no need to respond to the discussion. At no point did I request that people tell me whether my WOE was okay with them.
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Since I was the last person to reply I suppose I am the "most recent poster". In no way was what I said meant to attack you or your way of eating. I was just trying to help, clearly I didn't so I apologise. This forum is the most helpful and supportive I've ever encountered. That's probably why people were trying to understand the reasons for your request, to understand how best to support you in your goals. As you say, we are all different. I hope your experiment works and you get what you want from keto.
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There is absolutely no judging going on here.
There is concern. Keto can be hard. It's even harder for vegetarians and vegans following it. If we didn't express our concern for your well-being, @fileshiny, we'd just be heartless jerks.
Dragonwolf, Sabine, FIT_Goat, and I are mods of this group. It's our job to keep order and to sometimes express concern where we feel it might be merited.
My post was correcting misinformation that I thought you had. I was just letting you know that you can go a little higher on the carbs. And it was also for any other keto person, vegetarian or regular, who may read this thread in the future. Information is very important. And information that will help someone is even more so.
If you can find your previous thread again, amidst all the mess (I do sincerely wish they'd make the old discussions searchable) in which I gave you some links of recipes and blogs, you should go hunting for ideas. If you can't find it, I've added them to the LaunchPad LC Programs links library under veggie keto. And definitely hit up the reddit subforum for veggie keto. As you can see, though we have veggie ketoers, they must be busy and either not visit as often, or miss these threads because they get buried quickly due to the activeness of this group.
I completely feel you on the food boredom. Even though we aren't all vegetarian, I think all keto-folk have a short period where they are freaking sick and tired of eating keto. But we come to a point where we change our relationship with food and start to view it as merely fuel. Is it fueling us well? Yeah? Well, it's all good. And eventually, through listening to others and looking through a million recipes, we find inspiration and pass that temporary "meh" phase , moving onto "I actually freaking like this food." Or we move on to another WOE if we still don't find it sustainable.
Keto is great for overall health. Weightloss is sometimes a nice bonus. And sometimes it takes longer than we want to see the results we want. I just wanted you to know that you can go higher on the veggie carbs soon.
Maybe you won't see results as fast, but it might be a more enjoyable journey. But it's up to you.
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Yeah, I've been there. Wanting to eat but finding absolutely nothing appealing on the low carb menu. But you know what I did? I switched out my favorite foods for my least favorite and found them appealing. What I mean is I use to hate soup, and shakes. I use to say I prefer to eat my meals and not drink them. But I have found that soups and shakes are actually quite appealing especially if you are tired of eggs and oils and butters. The soups and shakes can hide the fat and eggs so you don't even notice they are there. If there is a style of preparing food that you found you didn't like when you were eating carbs, you might find you like it when your on a LCHF diet.
Pick your favorite low carb vegi and you can make a soup or shake out of it while blending in fats (Can you have whey protein? That will up your protein levels is you need to.). And don't forget the huge number of spices out there. Just add curry to a broth/cream and broccoli soup and you have just made a whole new flavor. The nice thing about soups and shakes is that you don't need to add a lot of the vegis. Just a little and the flavor is there, so you don't need to waste your carbs on the flavor of the soup. You have to experiment to see what you like. I have a cream of chicken soup I really like but you can make a cream of mushroom soup, especially if you use the gourmet mushrooms like oyster or milky mushrooms that have a better mushroom flavor so you don't need to use as many.
OK, I've just made myself hungry. I'm going to make some mushroom soup.
Oh and I've always wanted to tell a vegetarian about the wonders of purslane. It has the most Omega 3 fatty acid you can get. It has more than some fishes have. I grow it on our farm. But you can find it in the wild. It has a very appealing citrus flavor. Like mild lemons. It is popular in Mexico where they use it with eggs like spinach. Look for it at your farmer's market. It is just coming into season here.0 -
I too am in the 'most recent poster" group and I am sorry if you felt attacked. I was trying to help but obviously didn't. I am sorry for that.
Thank you for sharing your answers. It helps to have more knowledge and more context.
This discussion feels a bit like what happens when people who support the food pyramid diet plans come into contact with a keto diet plan. There is complete misunderstanding. However, there is usually a discussion about large meta data studies concerning the pros and cons of a keto adapted diet. And, after kicking around a few study outcomes, if not agreement, then at least an agreement to disagree.
Most of us on this forum have read about nutrition and have an understanding of the positives and some of the possible negatives about our WOE and we are willing to take the perceived risks of continuing on this path. Some of us might pay a price for this; only time will tell. The research that I have studied has convinced me that this WOE is sustainable and most proponents give roughly the same dietary and nutrition advice so that if I follow, I will be well and happy.
The positives we all know well. I know that the 'meat only' challenge would be of great concern for those on the food pyramid diet but this group, odd that we are, express great interest in trying it. And research backs up that we should be doing no harm to ourselves in trying this experiment.
Keto is a restricted way of eating. Vegetarian keto is more restrictive. Your choices have made it more restrictive still. I posted out of concern for your health. I posted out of concern that other vegetarians would feel they would be unable to follow a ketogenic diet when the research says they can.
You know your body and what it needs and this has informed your choice. I will keep an eye out for recipes that might help.0 -
OP, you have restrictions that are pulling in different directions, hence the extreme restriction.I prefer to stay at 20g total- not net- carbs because I did not start seeing any results until I had lowered my carbs to that level - and this is the level preferred by a great many keto experts.
Actually there's some dissidence concerning the carb threshold to get and maintain nutritional ketosis. Many say 20g net. I don't know which keto experts you refer to. But, some of the most respected researchers in the field, Steven Phinney, Jeff Volek and Dom D'Agostino say in several lectures that "carb thresholds are individual". I think they recommend starting with 50g net and adjust down or up according to the individual's metabolism. Some may have to go zerocarb to get results, very physically active people may go up to 150g. The point is that blood level of ketosis is not equal to fat loss. And that we all have different entry points when the liver starts making ketones, which can also change for the individual as per lifestyle choices like caloric intake, meal frequency, fasting and exercise.
If 20 g total of carbs is what you prefer and thrive on, then that is your choice and only you can decide this.
I don't think people meant any ill by suggesting bending your rules a bit. I perceived it more like they wanted you to succeed for a longer haul. If you wanna be offended by people using their free time to try answer you, then that's your choice too. I just wanna remind you that the kind of very specific dietary advice you were asking for is something you probably would have to spend good money on from a dietitian.
Now, to the best pointer I can give you: https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
Hopefully you'll find other people in the same predicament as you there. Best wishes
Edit: inserted a "I think".0
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