Uh oh. Ditching the stevia.
wheatlessgirl66
Posts: 598 Member
"Sucralose raises insulin by 20 percent, despite the fact that it contains no calories and no sugar. This insulin-raising effect has also been shown for other artificial sweeteners, including the "natural" sweetener stevia. Despite having a minimal effect on blood sugars, both aspartame and stevia raised insulin levels higher even than table sugar. Artificial sweeteners that raise insulin should be expected to be harmful, not beneficial. Artificial sweeteners may decrease calories and sugar, but not insulin. Yet it is insulin that drives weight gain and diabetes." --Dr. Jason Fung, The Obesity Code pg. 172
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No way! That's crazy.
So does this mean that Splenda has less of an effect on insulin than stevia does? Am I reading this correctly?0 -
So... speaking of raising insulin.
I've been allowing myself a splash of sugar free syrup in my coffee pretty regularly, since I'm not using powdered sweetener in my coffee. The past few days, I'm craving sugar so bad it's been a serious miracle that I haven't binged on sugary crap. I asked my husband to bring me a diet Dr Pepper today (aspartame) to hopefully nix this godawful sugar craving.
In addition to the sugar craving, all I can think about is food. It's completely taking over my brain, even though I'm not physically hungry.
Could this all be related?0 -
There are also studies out there that show stevia increases insulin sensitivity which is good. There is so much contradictory info out there it's actually hard to believe any of it. I doubt occasional use of any sweetener is anything that will cause detrimental effects to anyone's health.2
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Panda_Poptarts wrote: »So... speaking of raising insulin.
I've been allowing myself a splash of sugar free syrup in my coffee pretty regularly, since I'm not using powdered sweetener in my coffee. The past few days, I'm craving sugar so bad it's been a serious miracle that I haven't binged on sugary crap. I asked my husband to bring me a diet Dr Pepper today (aspartame) to hopefully nix this godawful sugar craving.
In addition to the sugar craving, all I can think about is food. It's completely taking over my brain, even though I'm not physically hungry.
Could this all be related?
I think it's definitely related.
Sweeteners do that to me too. I had to stop sweetening my coffee
But, I got used to it in a few days.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Panda_Poptarts wrote: »So... speaking of raising insulin.
I've been allowing myself a splash of sugar free syrup in my coffee pretty regularly, since I'm not using powdered sweetener in my coffee. The past few days, I'm craving sugar so bad it's been a serious miracle that I haven't binged on sugary crap. I asked my husband to bring me a diet Dr Pepper today (aspartame) to hopefully nix this godawful sugar craving.
In addition to the sugar craving, all I can think about is food. It's completely taking over my brain, even though I'm not physically hungry.
Could this all be related?
I think it's definitely related.
Sweeteners do that to me too. I had to stop sweetening my coffee
But, I got used to it in a few days.
Shoot me now.1 -
Panda_Poptarts wrote: »So... speaking of raising insulin.
I've been allowing myself a splash of sugar free syrup in my coffee pretty regularly, since I'm not using powdered sweetener in my coffee. The past few days, I'm craving sugar so bad it's been a serious miracle that I haven't binged on sugary crap. I asked my husband to bring me a diet Dr Pepper today (aspartame) to hopefully nix this godawful sugar craving.
In addition to the sugar craving, all I can think about is food. It's completely taking over my brain, even though I'm not physically hungry.
Could this all be related?
It's probably related to where your are at in your cycle since hormones play a big role in cravings and yours are shifting right now.
Has your intake of sugar free syrup changed recently? Didn't you recently increase your carb intake after advice from the nutritionist to add in more veggies? It's likely you are adjusting to that higher carb intake and your body is a little confused right now.
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auntstephie321 wrote: »
It's probably related to where your are at in your cycle since hormones play a big role in cravings and yours are shifting right now.
Has your intake of sugar free syrup changed recently? Didn't you recently increase your carb intake after advice from the nutritionist to add in more veggies? It's likely you are adjusting to that higher carb intake and your body is a little confused right now.
My sweetener intake has been pretty steady. I quit putting additional sweetener into my coffee and tea awhile back, and have been having no more than 2-3 drinks per day with artificial sweetener, whether that means 1 diet soda and 2 cups of coffee, or 3 cups of coffee and no soda, etc. I was using 10 - 20 packets a day, so I've majorly decreased, but haven't cut out completely.
I did bump over to net carbs in the past week. I suppose that, plus hormones, could be affecting things. Up until very recently, I haven't had an unmedicated cycle in years, so things are a little crazy for me this month. My body being confused makes a lot of sense. I suppose I'll know within a week or two, right?0 -
Also, sorry for potentially hijacking this post. Lol0
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Aspartame and acesulfame K give me major sweet cravings, among other issues. Stevia and sucralose don't seem to. But TOM does give me either sweet cravings or makes me want to eat EVERYTHING IN THE HOUSE. Every time. Which is why I ate a ship-load of nuts just now.
le sigh... 1 -
I have not only read this before, I lived it. Although, the be fair, I think QUANTITY matters here too. A smidgen here or there may not be a big deal for many. I made this mistake of having A LOT one day (20ish servings range) and got thrown hard out of keto. I have no problem on days I just use 2-3 servings.
I also switched to Truvia since it is a combo of erythritol and stevia. (There are other brands with this combo, Truvia is just easier to find) Erythritol doesn't have the gylcemic issues, this helps reduce the amount of stevia, and both are natural.
I'd rather have a bit of natural stevia then any amount of artificial sweetener, so I don't plan to flat out avoid it. And as was pointed out above, there are some contradictory reports that stevia has some beneficial properties. (who knows?!) However, I know what I experienced first hand so that is all I need for convincing 'evidence'.
Stevia in strict moderation only. 1 -
Being in a place where you can recognize the effects is huge! Sweeteners do just as much damage as sugar, imo! Maybe even worse for some of us!1
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I don't believe much, but Dr. Fung has quite a resume and research agenda behind him. That's an interesting post. THANKS!0
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I was using aspartame in copious amounts, but switched to Truvia also because of the erythritol... but made a major mistake when i bought the baking mix of that product... it also has sugar! So, i screwed the pooch on that one, but can't drink unsweetened coffee
Quitting aspartame has really improved headaches and joint pain, too1 -
I just finished that book. The stevia thing took me by surprise. I guess if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.0
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Ringbearer2 wrote: »I just finished that book. The stevia thing took me by surprise. I guess if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
I just started the book a few days ago. It sure starts well. And yes, if it's too good to be true!0 -
I read it cover to cover in 1 day, approximately 1 week after I had given up artificial sweeteners for April. They are gone for good now, but my Natural Calm magnesium has stevia in it - grrr. Just ordered something different without stevia....I don't want any unneccessary increases in insulin!
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I want to read it cover to cover! I just need to find a chunk of time.I read it cover to cover in 1 day, approximately 1 week after I had given up artificial sweeteners for April. They are gone for good now, but my Natural Calm magnesium has stevia in it - grrr. Just ordered something different without stevia....I don't want any unneccessary increases in insulin!
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I read it cover to cover in 1 day, approximately 1 week after I had given up artificial sweeteners for April. They are gone for good now, but my Natural Calm magnesium has stevia in it - grrr. Just ordered something different without stevia....I don't want any unneccessary increases in insulin!
Exactly how I felt when I read it. I don't want any unnecessary impact on my insulin!0 -
I wonder about xylitol. I bought a 5lb bag of that on Amazon way back in November when I started keto but haven't even opened it yet. Anyone know how it affects insulin? (I think I'm insulin resistant, formerly prediabetic, and definitely have PCOS.)0
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KarlynKeto wrote: »I have not only read this before, I lived it. Although, the be fair, I think QUANTITY matters here too. A smidgen here or there may not be a big deal for many. I made this mistake of having A LOT one day (20ish servings range) and got thrown hard out of keto. I have no problem on days I just use 2-3 servings.
I also switched to Truvia since it is a combo of erythritol and stevia. (There are other brands with this combo, Truvia is just easier to find) Erythritol doesn't have the gylcemic issues, this helps reduce the amount of stevia, and both are natural.
I'd rather have a bit of natural stevia then any amount of artificial sweetener, so I don't plan to flat out avoid it. And as was pointed out above, there are some contradictory reports that stevia has some beneficial properties. (who knows?!) However, I know what I experienced first hand so that is all I need for convincing 'evidence'. Stevia in strict moderation only.
I agree that the dose makes the poison. I'm pretty sure that most (if not all) non-nutritive sweeteners cause an insulin response to some degree. I've read somewhere that just thinking about certain foods can cause an insulin response. So you can count that there WILL be an insulin response. The dose and the reaction will vary by substance and who is consuming it. People who are diabetic or have other metabolic issues are going to have a tougher time with them than some other folks. Or people who just happen to not tolerate them for some reason.
So if you just have it once or twice a day in small amounts in your coffee (MUST HAVE COFFEE
) or tea, it wouldn't be as bad as: in coffee, plus in yogurt, plus in 2 diet sodas, plus about 3 sticks of gum, plus sugar-free jello. KWIM. That stuff builds up. And I don't know about anyone else, but that's a "sweet habit" in the making for me. The more very sweet we have, the more very sweet our bodies want. For some of us at least. I used to drink 1 or 2 diet sodas a day in the afternoon. It made me snacky/cravy, and it affected my UTI system in a bad way. I stopped drinking them, and I stopped endlessly craving sweets and having the UTI issue. I still have one on the very occasional. I just know that if I make it a habit again it's not going to be good.
I've never had any of these issues with the stevia, stevia/erythritol blend, stevia/monkfruit blend, or sucralose. Just the aspartame and ace K. But that's a YMMV.1 -
I also think it makes a huge difference if he's talking about powdered sweeteners versus liquid. Since I get postprandial somnolence (crashing/narcing out after I have carbs at a meal), and I did this BADLY with splenda packets, but it doesn't happen to me with the Sweet Leaf brand stevia (powdered or liquid), I'm using the narcing out episodes as a way to pseudo-measure my insulin responses, since there isn't a way to test that at home...
And any time I've had the insulin response, it hasn't had much of a measurable impact on my blood sugars, at least not in a time window I've checked or been told to check, etc.
Yeah, somewhere a while back I listed out my reactions to different sweeteners...I'm sure I saved it somewhere...but my basic theory is - if it causes me to narc out or to have cravings, it's gotta go!0 -
^Right.
It bears repeating that for powdered sweeteners, there's a 99.9% chance there is a bulking agent involved and those are sugar, whether the label says dextrose, maltodextrin, or whatever. It's sugar. So glucose and insulin response. The label is lying. They're allowed to say zero if it's under 1g. So you often get 1 carb per teaspoon. And some calories as well, 4 or 5ish.
Liquid versions are concentrated. No sugar bulkers. Just the sweetener so no hidden carbs.0 -
This quote concerned me when I started reading the book last week because I recently began using Stevia as an alternate to sucralose. Therefore, I obtained a copy of journal article cited regarding this point and reviewed the actual study. My review of the study gave me pause regarding Dr. Fung's work. First, let me clarify that I am a social scientist not a medical professional.
While Dr. Fung's statement has an element of truth, it is in fact quite misleading and in my opinion sensationalized. The researchers measured insulin levels at multiple points for three groups, one group that consumed Aspartame, one that consumed Stevia, and one that consumed sucrose (table sugar) with specific meals fed to them by the researchers. At all points but the last, the insulin levels of the participants who consumed Stevia were MUCH lower, statistically significantly lower, than the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame or sucrose. It was only at the last measurement, which if I am recalling correctly was 2 hours postparandial (that is 2 hours after eating) that insulin was higher those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia. However, at this point, the insulin levels of all groups had leveled out and were almost the same. The differences in insulin levels among the three groups at that point were statistically insignificantt at the 95% confidence level. Furthermore, if you compare all three groups across each of the other points when insulin levels were measured, the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia were MUCH lower than the levels of the group that consumed sucrose and differences were statistically significant. Stevia had by far the lowest levels of insulin spike among the three groups across all measures except the last which again as I noted above was statistically insignificant.
Reading this gave me great concern regarding how carefully Dr. Fung reads the studies he cites. I have found his videos and blogs interesting and informative. But, at least in this case, I am concerned that he has mislead his readers to support his stated concerns about artificial sweeteners. Please note that I am not suggesting anyone should run out and start using artificial sweeteners or natural sweeteners like Stevia.This is just one study, and like all studies, it has its limitations, which the scholars identified. It has however, given me pause, regarding Dr. Fung's book and recommendations.3 -
I rarely use any sweetener. I have some of the Sweet Leaf liquid stevia which I use on very rare occasions. Maybe once a month if that and so far I've not noticed any reaction or increase in cravings. I don't use aspartame, sweet n' low, or splenda because it makes my RA flare up. As far as I know I'm not insulin resistant or having any pre-diabetic stuff going on so that could be a factor as well.
You can get used to unsweetened coffee and tea really quick. Just give it a week or so. Once you are used to it any sweetened drink will really gross you out. If I get a sweetened tea or coffee it's like sipping on maple syrup! haha0 -
My doctor said my gut would respond to the sweeteners similar to sugar so don't do it. Consistent with insulin response story. I dodge sweet else I want to eat a lot of everything. Turns off my capacity to feel full (i suspect)0
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Purely anecdotal...
I switched to truvia for a month in my tea. I drank my instant tea with truvia all day (replacing splenda). I started seeing stars a lot, nearly blacking out. I would be hiking (while gulping my tea) and get so dizzy I couldnt walk and would panic about being able to get home.
Got a glucose meter to confirm - I do not have diabetes, in fact my "normal' blood sugar has always been on the low side - 70 to 80 fasting, 90-100 eating. Within an hour of drinking a half bottle of tea with stevia, my BG was 40-50. I even went to the doctor and the blood test they drew came back at 40 (they called me quick especially since I drove home!).
So my theory is that stevia is touted as being good for diabetics because not only does it not usually raise your BG, but it can lower it - great for diabetics! Not so much for hypos or low "normal" people!!!
I now still use stevia in rotation with other sweeteners (swerve/erythritol, monk front/lo han) but I never use it unless there are some carbs present to counteract it. I.e. not in 0 calorie tea But ok for baking stuff, or eating oatmeal, etc.
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SamandaIndia wrote: »My doctor said my gut would respond to the sweeteners similar to sugar so don't do it. Consistent with insulin response story. I dodge sweet else I want to eat a lot of everything. Turns off my capacity to feel full (i suspect)
Yeah, I've always wondered about sweeteners and their capacity to make less fullness. Drink 1 bottle of water and I feel full pretty fast. Drink 1 bottle of diet soda and I don't feel full the same way. Moreover, I get snacky or wanna eat more after a short while. This is my experience and it may not apply for other people.0 -
This quote concerned me when I started reading the book last week because I recently began using Stevia as an alternate to sucralose. Therefore, I obtained a copy of journal article cited regarding this point and reviewed the actual study. My review of the study gave me pause regarding Dr. Fung's work. First, let me clarify that I am a social scientist not a medical professional.
While Dr. Fung's statement has an element of truth, it is in fact quite misleading and in my opinion sensationalized. The researchers measured insulin levels at multiple points for three groups, one group that consumed Aspartame, one that consumed Stevia, and one that consumed sucrose (table sugar) with specific meals fed to them by the researchers. At all points but the last, the insulin levels of the participants who consumed Stevia were MUCH lower, statistically significantly lower, than the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame or sucrose. It was only at the last measurement, which if I am recalling correctly was 2 hours postparandial (that is 2 hours after eating) that insulin was higher those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia. However, at this point, the insulin levels of all groups had leveled out and were almost the same. The differences in insulin levels among the three groups at that point were statistically insignificantt at the 95% confidence level. Furthermore, if you compare all three groups across each of the other points when insulin levels were measured, the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia were MUCH lower than the levels of the group that consumed sucrose and differences were statistically significant. Stevia had by far the lowest levels of insulin spike among the three groups across all measures except the last which again as I noted above was statistically insignificant.
Reading this gave me great concern regarding how carefully Dr. Fung reads the studies he cites. I have found his videos and blogs interesting and informative. But, at least in this case, I am concerned that he has mislead his readers to support his stated concerns about artificial sweeteners. Please note that I am not suggesting anyone should run out and start using artificial sweeteners or natural sweeteners like Stevia.This is just one study, and like all studies, it has its limitations, which the scholars identified. It has however, given me pause, regarding Dr. Fung's book and recommendations.
I was wondering if there was a citation.
People can be myopic when they want something to support their position.
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baconslave wrote: »This quote concerned me when I started reading the book last week because I recently began using Stevia as an alternate to sucralose. Therefore, I obtained a copy of journal article cited regarding this point and reviewed the actual study. My review of the study gave me pause regarding Dr. Fung's work. First, let me clarify that I am a social scientist not a medical professional.
While Dr. Fung's statement has an element of truth, it is in fact quite misleading and in my opinion sensationalized. The researchers measured insulin levels at multiple points for three groups, one group that consumed Aspartame, one that consumed Stevia, and one that consumed sucrose (table sugar) with specific meals fed to them by the researchers. At all points but the last, the insulin levels of the participants who consumed Stevia were MUCH lower, statistically significantly lower, than the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame or sucrose. It was only at the last measurement, which if I am recalling correctly was 2 hours postparandial (that is 2 hours after eating) that insulin was higher those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia. However, at this point, the insulin levels of all groups had leveled out and were almost the same. The differences in insulin levels among the three groups at that point were statistically insignificantt at the 95% confidence level. Furthermore, if you compare all three groups across each of the other points when insulin levels were measured, the insulin levels of those who consumed Aspartame and Stevia were MUCH lower than the levels of the group that consumed sucrose and differences were statistically significant. Stevia had by far the lowest levels of insulin spike among the three groups across all measures except the last which again as I noted above was statistically insignificant.
Reading this gave me great concern regarding how carefully Dr. Fung reads the studies he cites. I have found his videos and blogs interesting and informative. But, at least in this case, I am concerned that he has mislead his readers to support his stated concerns about artificial sweeteners. Please note that I am not suggesting anyone should run out and start using artificial sweeteners or natural sweeteners like Stevia.This is just one study, and like all studies, it has its limitations, which the scholars identified. It has however, given me pause, regarding Dr. Fung's book and recommendations.
I was wondering if there was a citation.
People can be myopic when they want something to support their position.
So true. Personal biases are an Achilles heel for the world of nutrition. I have read a lot of the 'best selling' books by doctors recommending this diet or that diet, from vegan to primal, and I don't think there is one book that didn't have some questionable recommendation(s) that appeared to stretch the interpretation of one study or another. It doesn't mean these doctors are not excellent in their field, nor that any of these diets are thus fundamentally unhealthy, but reading-between-the-lines is always going to be important. Personal biases are going to creep into their recommendations even with the best intentions, and Stevia may be Dr Fung's bias. However, from my own experience high quantities of Stevia knocked me way out of keto ( It may have been the powder filler not the actual stevia, I don't know, I drank a lot of a stevia flavored water enhancer in one day so no idea what the manufacture used), so he is not completely wrong either. His citation may have been enough just to satisfy his editors, but who knows the full body of evidence he is basing his theory on. Maybe he also had a lot of patients like me, which cannot be cited. *Sigh* I have no plans to cut it out completely, but I never want to relive that day I over consumed it. I was starving!! Hated it. 0 -
Also, am I mistaken, or aren't there multiple types of Stevia? I remember reading somewhere that some forms are artificially extracted or reconstructed or something, whereas others are naturally extracted (something comparative to Virgin and Refined coconut oil perhaps?).
Also I know that erithrytol is supposed to not affect blood sugars, but I would narc out badly with Truvia, too. Perhaps that was the fillers, since there were three sugar alcohol carbs per packet?0
This discussion has been closed.