Source of carbs in ketosis
Expatmommy79
Posts: 940 Member
There was a debate happening on another board and I thought it would be best to ask here:
If a cup of popcorn has 6 carbs vs a protein shake with 6 carbs, does it make a difference to ketosis if you have one over the other?
Does the source of carbs matter?
Assume everything else the same and macros are being met.
If a cup of popcorn has 6 carbs vs a protein shake with 6 carbs, does it make a difference to ketosis if you have one over the other?
Does the source of carbs matter?
Assume everything else the same and macros are being met.
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Replies
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Well I thought a carb is a carb so it shouldn't matter where it comes from, does it? interested to see what the better informed folks will tell us. hope it doesn't matter, sometimes I like to have a bowl of popcorn swimming in butter, it's an advantage of this diet that the beloved melted butter is good.0
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I would think that the popcorn would be worse because it would invoke a greater insulin response (this is pure speculation... I mean I know that insulin even more than carbs is the determiner in obesity but on the issue of if one is better/worse, it's speculation)
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but there is no sugar in popcorn so how would it invoke an insulin response, mind you I am probably wrong as hell.....lol. That is taking that you make it yourself pop it in an airpopper or in a pan with butter,0
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but there is no sugar in popcorn so how would it invoke an insulin response, mind you I am probably wrong as hell.....lol. That is taking that you make it yourself pop it in an airpopper or in a pan with butter,
Popcorn has carbs. Just like potatoes or beans... Even eggs have carbs... 0.7g/egg.
Carbs don't necerssarily always taste like sugar.
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I know popcorn has carbs, but the question was 6 carbs from protein shake vs from popcorn,. I was thinking a carb is a carb, and unless it has added sugar it shouldn't be any worse than any other carb at invoking insulin spikes, unless you go over your carb intake, should it? wouldn't popcorn have more fibre than the shake?0
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I know popcorn has carbs, but the question was 6 carbs from protein shake vs from popcorn,. I was thinking a carb is a carb, and unless it has added sugar it shouldn't be any worse than any other carb at invoking insulin spikes, unless you go over your carb intake, should it? wouldn't popcorn have more fibre? than the shake?
But it's not just "added sugar" that invokes an insulin response. All carbs invoke some response. Even protein does to a certain degree.... So "popcorn not having sugar" doesn't make a difference.
Your statement "but there is no sugar in popcorn" is what I was clarifying.
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Yes the source matters. And the person eating it matters.
Glycemic response varies. Insulin response varies. Physiology doesn't read package labels.6 -
Here's an article which argues that the source of the carb doesn't matter if you are healthy, but does if you are not.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html1 -
We argue all the time (well, I stopped haha) with the CICO crowd that while a calorie is a calorie in their narrow "it's a unit of measure" stance, the source of calories matter (the "a calorie is NOT a calorie" argument)... I can't imagine that the same does not apply to carbs. Sure a carb is a carb as far as it's a macro with about 4 calories per gram - but the source of said carb has to matter.0
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I definitely believe the source matters. I think even non caloric carbs, such as sugar alcohols matter...1
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So would those 6g of popcorn carbs kick someone out of ketosis if the overall level of carbs was still less than 20 for the day?0
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https://authoritynutrition.com/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie/
and
http://nutritionstudies.org/popcorn-healthier-vegetables/
and
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/understanding-carbohydrates/glycemic-index-and-diabetes.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/ (keeping in mind that a low carb diet doesn't include any in the above list!)
haha and one more
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/popcorn-high-carbohydrates-3882.html0 -
As a diabetic, it definitely matters to my body where the carbs came from, AND what else I ate with them.1
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So... Back to the original question.
What is better?
Popcorn carbs
Protein shake carbs
Quest bar0 -
I just added the quest bar - because curious0
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ah pants, ye have me retinking it all now, lol. I was happy just trying to keep all my carbs under 15g, and if I had a handful of popcorn was still under I was happy. I get almost all my carbs from veg.0
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ah pants, ye have me retinking it all now, lol. I was happy just trying to keep all my carbs under 15g, and if I had a handful of popcorn was still under I was happy. I get almost all my carbs from veg.
I'm with you... I'm not sure for ketosis it matters where they come from.
Hoping someone with a blood keto Meter will weigh in and enlighten me
I'm not even keto! Just curious...0 -
Expatmommy79 wrote: »I just added the quest bar - because curious
I'll chime in: NOT a quest bar.
Without knowing more about the protein shake, can we possibly know?1 -
No totally hypothetical.
All macros are the same at the end of the day.
6g popcorn carbs
Or
6g of any other carb - berries, milk product, veg (netted for fiber), coconut powder or nuts
If it fits in the keto formula...
Will the popcorn halt ketosis?0 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »As a diabetic, it definitely matters to my body where the carbs came from, AND what else I ate with them.
Diabetes factored out:
Purely staying in or out of ketosis.
Will it matter?
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It matters type of carb. The body doesn't care about nutrition labels on a package that may or may not be accurate for your food item. The body only cares about how that food item is interpreted in the liver according to that individual's biochem. @wabmester explained it more succinctly than me.
Popcorn is a lot of fructose. Fructose is like a non alcoholic carb, I think. Which is solely handled in the liver. I don't know if fructose pauses ketones production in liver like alcohol does. Someone more learned than me is welcome to chime in on this.
Anyway. Muscles can't use fructose as energy. So when people say they need to have fruit for preworkout...well...the fructose doesn't fuel muscle glycogen.
My advice is to choose carefully source of carbs according to your goals. It's easy to "rationalize" carb intake.0 -
My body will react to 6 grams of grain carbs in a far more negative reaction than 5 times that many carbs of non-starchy veggies, like broccoli.
So much like ALL THINGS LOW CARB, there is NO one answer that fits everyone.
I can have more carbs from berries (maybe double) versus say from grains or starchy veggies. And I can have more broccoli than berries before the same response, etc. I have a very negative response to beans and corn, but for some reason I can handle a small portion of potatoes. But everyone is different. Everyone's reactions are different.
What kicks me out of nutritional ketosis may not kick you out. So for me, personally, the source of the carbs matters very much!
As long as the protein carbs are from something like hemp powder/fiber or fruit/fiber, I'd be better of with the shake than the popcorn, but someone else might have a body that reacts badly to fiber - and that person might be better off with the popcorn!
For me, getting to know my body and it's own reactions is crucial to making low carbing work for me.2 -
Expatmommy79 wrote: »Purely staying in or out of ketosis.
Will it matter?
I guess you need to start by defining "ketosis" and then tell us what it means to be "kicked out."
Ketone levels vary throughout the day. Those levels will go down due to just about any meal. If your average ketone level is > 0.5 mmol/l (or whatever) for the day, but it goes below that for 2 hours, does that mean you've been kicked out?
And what are the consequences of this "kicking out?"
While you're pondering these questions, also consider a tree falling in the forest with nobody around to hear it.
I'll give you some clues:- ketosis isn't black and white
- people fear being kicked out, but that doesn't mean it's a rational fear
- carb sources matter
- individual physiological differences matter
One more thing to ponder.
Personalized Nutrition by Prediction of Glycemic Responses
That's two people. Both eating a cookie and a banana. They had opposite glycemic responses to those meals similar in carb content.6 -
@wabmester that's because bananas are disgusting3
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Here's a conundrum for you. I've been a bit...lax on my low carbing lately (ok, TOTALLY not doing it).
After I ate rice & chili, for a total of about 65g carbs, my blood sugar was 124 and 137 an hour later. After eating spaghetti & pao, for a total of about 149g carbs, my blood sugar was 90 and 115. No exercise involved either time. Even if my portions/carb numbers were off by half, it's still a HUGE difference. I verified the 90 on another meter (it said 84!) because my brain immediately said that the number had to be wrong. I'm pretty certain that the source of the carbs matters, but different people may react differently.
And yes, I'm saying to heck with tracking junk meals and going back to low carb.0 -
Peter Attia is wearing a continuous glucose monitor these days (just because he's an ubergeek). He says he's discovered fascinating things about how he responds to various meals, but he hasn't yet shared the details with the world. I think he did mention that he was kind of shocked by his high glycemic response to rice, though.3
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Peter Attia is wearing a continuous glucose monitor these days (just because he's an ubergeek). He says he's discovered fascinating things about how he responds to various meals, but he hasn't yet shared the details with the world. I think he did mention that he was kind of shocked by his high glycemic response to rice, though.
The problem that will arise once he does share it with the world is that everyone will make the assumption that those same foods will have the exact same effect on them....3 -
Here's a conundrum for you. I've been a bit...lax on my low carbing lately (ok, TOTALLY not doing it).
After I ate rice & chili, for a total of about 65g carbs, my blood sugar was 124 and 137 an hour later. After eating spaghetti & pao, for a total of about 149g carbs, my blood sugar was 90 and 115. No exercise involved either time. Even if my portions/carb numbers were off by half, it's still a HUGE difference. I verified the 90 on another meter (it said 84!) because my brain immediately said that the number had to be wrong. I'm pretty certain that the source of the carbs matters, but different people may react differently.
And yes, I'm saying to heck with tracking junk meals and going back to low carb.
If you're diabetic there's more to your blood glucose numbers than just the food you put in your body an hour ago. Stress and illness are two big factors. The way you've been fueling your body over the last few days can impact how it reacts to a particular meal. Your recent exercise regimen will affect the way your body metabolises. As someone who previously used a lot of insulin, I can tell you that it's not fun trying to predict your body's response.1 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »If you're diabetic there's more to your blood glucose numbers than just the food you put in your body an hour ago. Stress and illness are two big factors. The way you've been fueling your body over the last few days can impact how it reacts to a particular meal. Your recent exercise regimen will affect the way your body metabolises. As someone who previously used a lot of insulin, I can tell you that it's not fun trying to predict your body's response.
Luckily, I'm not diabetic, but I will be if I don't do something about it. It's definitely insane trying to figure out what makes it go up and what doesn't.1 -
The question for me isn't so much will the carbs in one cup of popcorn kick me out of ketosis (popcorn has some fiber and of the grains corn is a lower on the glycemic index), but rather, can I eat just one cup of popcorn? Do I eat popcorn now? Nope. Will I eat popcorn when I am at goal weight? Probably sometimes.2
