How many grams fit into low-carb and a billion other questions?

RunRachelleRun

Hi all. Thanks for letting me join this group. The information on electrolytes already fixed my headache issue today.

I am training for a half-marathon in October. I haven't tried going low-carb since my gallbladder was forcibly removed a few years ago. I've lost about 45 pounds and plateaued. I am hovering around 185 (5'8") but still have another 35-50 pounds to go.

Diabetes 2 runs on both sides of my family, even when thin, and I have symptoms of insulin resistance (such as a wonderful ability to grow a mustache/beard that could be the envy of many a young man over the last few years). I have decided to give it a go and just keep my fat on the lower side since I have such trouble digesting it now.

I am working out 1-2 hours most days and want to have enough energy to maintain this and meet my fitness/health goals. So where do I start? How many grams of carb can I eat a day and still be considered low-carb? Is 100-150 still considered low-carb or will I not see results until I drop them further?

Lastly, I remember reading a study where the people on the low-carb diet burned 350 calories more a day. Has anyone found this to be true?

Thanks in advance!

Rachelle

sammyliftsandeats

Low carb is considered 150g or less. Everybody's carb limit is individual. Those who are insulin resistant seem to do well on less, but it will vary.

Some people find the higher carb limit less restricting, allowing in some fruit or legumes where others like the lower limit because the higher fat helps combat cravings.

Beware of a slight performance drop when exercising as your body gets used to a new form of fuel.

RalfLott

Phinney and Volek's Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance is loaded with great information on this sort of topic.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0983490716/

Dragonwolf

Have a look at: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10423197/open-threads-member-threads-on-low-carb-topics#latest

There's a section that says "navigating low carb without a gallbladder" that will have a bunch of information for you. Short story -- you don't actually need to limit your fat intake if you don't want to, but you might have to adjust your approach to adapting.

That link and the launch pad will have a bunch of information on exercising, as well. Again, carbs aren't necessary for it, but there is an adaptation period, during which your performance will temporarily drop.

tinywonder25

I average 80 carbs a day and consider myself low carb. I feel optimum on about 30-50 although I've never tried zero carb. It's something I will try in the near future tho.

Good luck on your half marathon! I'm sure there will be plenty of people able to direct you to the info that will help you!

RunRachelleRun

Thanks for the info and links. I had read the launch pad, but apparently I didn't scroll down enough to see all the resources. D'oh!

From a quick glance, it looks as if low-carb equals high-fat, which is what I was hoping to avoid. I tried ACV and digestive enzymes for years since my gallbladder troubles began and have only recently weaned myself off them. I have given up on my body adapting to eating more fat, but that said, it does do better with some fats over others. Perhaps if I give it another go and focus on those, it can be done.

I've got so much to read now! Thanks, everyone!

Sunny_Bunny_

What exactly happens when you eat a high fat meal? Now, I'm asking this assuming this meal is high fat without including any grains or sugars. Because it's possible the combo of high fat with grains or sugar is what causes the problem to a degree at least and not just the fat itself.
I had my gallbladder out a very long time ago but of course always ate the low fat, high fiber diet that I was "supposed to" to keep away the phantom attacks that still plagued me more than 20 years later. And to control IBS.
To my surprise, my IBS became a thing of history the lower my fiber intake, the better and I haven't had a phantom gallbladder attack since before going Keto about 15 months ago. I've even done a few "fat fast" type diets back in my day of trying to win at the scale weight game, otherwise known as breaking a stall. Lol didn't make any difference though... but I never had any trouble with the gallbladder.
Anyway, not saying you don't, just wondering if the carbs that might be present in the high fat meal, even though low, could actually be the culprit.

RalfLott

Phinney has explained (in one of the segments on JumpstartMD's YouTube channel) there is no requirement to eat any particular amount of fat, as you will burn body fat in the absence of dietary fat.

RunRachelleRun

Thanks @RalfLott - I was just reading an article about that by Phinney. I'll have to check out the YouTube videos. So interesting!

@Sunny_Bunny_ That could be. I love carbs more than they love me and I haven't limited them for any stretch since my gallbladder issues began (2010 or 11?). My digestion is usually its best when I eat pasta (high carb/high fiber), chicken, rice, mushrooms, squashes, and bananas. Almost all other foods present some sort of trouble.

The fats I have particular trouble with are fish (salmon is the worst), pork, most nuts and seeds, cottage cheese, ice cream, and dark chocolate (the one I eat is 14g fat/2g fiber/10g sugar). I used to have trouble with avocado, but seem to tolerating it better recently.

I do get liver/phantom gallbladder pains many days. I also have trouble digesting a number of vegetables (potatoes, cauliflower, broccoli) so perhaps fiber is a large part of the equation. Bell peppers or mashed potatoes (high fat/high carb) almost always triggered my gallbladder attacks prior to it being removed. I still can't eat bell peppers; I get indigestion and a phantom attack within a few hours. I ate them fine before the gallbladder trouble began.

I have only recently added sliced almonds and almond milk to my diet (I have a legume allergy and was told to avoid most nuts but have slowly been trying them out when they are free of peanut warnings), and almonds seem to be agreeing with me. I'll have to look to see if they are lower in fiber or something than other seeds/nuts.

I also have a number of food allergies, including shellfish, eggs, and coconut.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of macros are you doing?

RunRachelleRun

@Sunny_Bunny_ Just realized I didn't answer what happens. Warning, gross tmi ahead ... When I eat too much fat, I get bloating, a distended stomach, explosive sticky diarrhea and/or yellow balls of floating stool. Rarely, I will also get acid reflux and heartburn. It isn't pleasant.

AngInCanada

I am following carb curve from the Primal blueprint right now and feel amazing. I was keto before but always felt exhausted. I have a ton of energy and sleeping really well. I eat between 80 and 100 grama TOTAL carbs a day.

RunRachelleRun

I have read the primal blueprint and may even have a copy lying around. I love having energy, so that is great to hear. Thanks!

Sunny_Bunny_

RunRachelleRun wrote: »

@Sunny_Bunny_ Just realized I didn't answer what happens. Warning, gross tmi ahead ... When I eat too much fat, I get bloating, a distended stomach, explosive sticky diarrhea and/or yellow balls of floating stool. Rarely, I will also get acid reflux and heartburn. It isn't pleasant.

This is pretty much the symptoms that got me the IBS diagnosis.
I suspect a very low fiber plan could help you like it did me.
I am mostly carnivore. Eating meats, cheese, eggs and dairy. When I include vegetables I get bloated, gassy and constipated now. Pickle juice or ACV seem to help when I decide to eat that way.
However, my gallbladder and IBS symptoms like you're describing pretty much stopped right away when I first went Keto and I ate between 20-35g total carbs a day from vegetables then.
I think I was around 20% protein and about 70% fat then. Just going from memory. I did deal with constipation and some bloating but I always blamed it on too much protein and cheese. Then I decided to try carnivore and realized I can eat all the meat and cheese I want as long as I don't also eat vegetables.
I honestly feel like it's not the fat that causes the digestive combustion even though you would suspect that due to seeing all the fat content that comes out. I think it's the fermentation involved with sugars and fiber almost literally creating combustion that prevents the fat from being absorbed. There's so much inflammation in the gut. Also too much of the gut bacteria that eats the sugar and fiberous stuff and not enough of others.

the_new_mark_2017

Interesting reading. One thing to clarify, I am assuming no matter if you are on 20g of carbs of 60g of carbs per day, you are still limiting your calorie intake? For example with weight loss, if I was eating 1500cal per day, one diet with 20g of carbs, and another with 60g of carbs, would I lose the same amount of weight? Does that make sense?

RunRachelleRun

@Sunny_Bunny_ I think you are onto something. There may even be two separate digestive issues at play. I am not brave enough to jump my fat up that much, but I will increase it and see what happens in the absence of fiber and carbs. Thanks!

@the_new_mark_2016 For sure. Though it would be nice to eat a bit more or not be as hungry My CICO calculations haven't quite been adding up recently since I added strength training at the end of May, but CICO is how I lost 45 pounds so I am a believer.

co_lau

I cannot speak to the gallbladder component, as I still have mine.

However, as a long-distance runner, let me speak to training: If your half is in October, you need to sort out how you want to fuel yourself through long runs and implement it quickly, because you need to train with that fueling mechanism, both for your body's stability during a long run and for your mental capacity. At mile 10 of your race, you don't want to deal with the question "Is this going to make me puke?" You should have established during training "No, this won't make me puke."

According to my endocrinologist, if you're genetically inclined toward diabetes, but are not yet diabetic, keeping your carbs under 100g, and evenly dispersed throughout the day, should be effectively low enough to mitigate blood sugar spikes.

Also, good luck with your half. It's a very fun distance.

RalfLott

co_lau wrote: »

According to my endocrinologist, if you're genetically inclined toward diabetes, but are not yet diabetic, keeping your carbs under 100g, and evenly dispersed throughout the day, should be effectively low enough to mitigate blood sugar spikes.

Hmm.... My endocrinologist is more inclined toward keeping the (net) carbs lower (<50) and allowing 12-16 hours between meals with carbs >20g in order to allow the BG to settle all the way back down. Probably an individual reaction - another reason why taking BG readings is sooo important if your BG runs high....

co_lau

RalfLott wrote: »

Hmm.... My endocrinologist is more inclined toward keeping the (net) carbs lower (<50) and allowing 12-16 hours between meals with carbs >20g in order to allow the BG to settle all the way back down. Probably an individual reaction - another reason why taking BG readings is sooo important if your BG runs high....

My comment was my endo's first suggestion and my body responded immediately to it. There may be (no sure how to word this) tiers of recommendations to regulation blood sugar? A variety of options for management?

RunRachelleRun

Thank you. This will be my second half-marathon. My first one I ran with water only but suffered terrible muscle cramps towards the end, which really slowed me down. I'm slow enough already, so am looking at around 3 hours. Closer to 3.5 if things go wrong again.

This go round, I've started training with dates and a honey-molasses drink solution (completely not low-carb lol), which my body loves. It will be hard to go back to nothing, but I am just getting into the long runs now so have enough time to make the switch.

My mother is not very overweight (less than 20 pounds) was told she likely had diabetes for twenty years prior to receiving the diagnosis. Her father died after a series of strokes from diabetes. She now suffers from the damage that was done while she went undiagnosed (peripheral neuropathy, macular degeneration, etc.). Her specialist also told her that her children have a 70% chance of inheriting it from her alone. My father's side also has a high incidence of obese diabetes, so I figure it's not a matter of if I'm going to get it, but rather when.

I was borderline diabetic during my pregnancy after doing the sugar test. I believe it read 12.9 and 13.0 would have labelled me as diabetic. I was given no instructions and being young, thought nothing of it. My son weighed 9 lbs 8 ozs when he was born. Safe to say, I probably was diabetic.

My fasting blood sugar is all that is ever tested now, and it is always fine. I'm fairly certain if I had a sugar test, things would be different. I need to eat protein throughout the day to feel good. I suppose I could get a bg tester for home. . . .

I just read something about insulin resistance being a cause of excess facial hair, so that is what prompted me to try low-carb despite being gallbladderless. I hope I can manage it. It seems like a solution to a lot of issues, and if it will help me break through this weight plateau . . . awesome!

anglyn1

I have no gallbladder and like others have said above fat does not seem to bother me. Certain vegetables do though. Also if I go too long between meals once I do eat it will cause a huge bile dump. It has to be a really long time though. I also recommend the ACV. I take a shot of it every morning!

RunRachelleRun

Really interesting @anglyn1 . I hadn't considered if the time between meals is a factor.

I did the ACV after my surgery for about a year. Then it started to give me terrible heartburn/acid reflux pains, so I stopped. I don't know if this means I never had/no longer had low stomach acid. I tried to switch to Betaine HCl but had a similar reaction.

I have also used digestive enzymes with some success, but not total. I was thinking I'd like to try ox bile on its own, but can only seem to buy it with many other ingredients up here. I'll have to order it online.

Dragonwolf

RunRachelleRun wrote: »

Thanks @RalfLott - I was just reading an article about that by Phinney. I'll have to check out the YouTube videos. So interesting!

@Sunny_Bunny_ That could be. I love carbs more than they love me and I haven't limited them for any stretch since my gallbladder issues began (2010 or 11?). My digestion is usually its best when I eat pasta (high carb/high fiber), chicken, rice, mushrooms, squashes, and bananas. Almost all other foods present some sort of trouble.

The fats I have particular trouble with are fish (salmon is the worst), pork, most nuts and seeds, cottage cheese, ice cream, and dark chocolate (the one I eat is 14g fat/2g fiber/10g sugar). I used to have trouble with avocado, but seem to tolerating it better recently.

I do get liver/phantom gallbladder pains many days. I also have trouble digesting a number of vegetables (potatoes, cauliflower, broccoli) so perhaps fiber is a large part of the equation. Bell peppers or mashed potatoes (high fat/high carb) almost always triggered my gallbladder attacks prior to it being removed. I still can't eat bell peppers; I get indigestion and a phantom attack within a few hours. I ate them fine before the gallbladder trouble began.

I have only recently added sliced almonds and almond milk to my diet (I have a legume allergy and was told to avoid most nuts but have slowly been trying them out when they are free of peanut warnings), and almonds seem to be agreeing with me. I'll have to look to see if they are lower in fiber or something than other seeds/nuts.

I also have a number of food allergies, including shellfish, eggs, and coconut.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of macros are you doing?

What you're describing sounds like a histamine issue. Have you ever looked into histamine intolerance and a low-histamine diet?

Nearly all of the foods you've named that are a problem for you are high histamine foods, and your reaction match up to the GI response of them. It might be something worth looking into.

http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list/

RunRachelleRun

I do have a histamine issue as I also have a strong nasal/sinus response to wine and beer. I can only have a small amount.

I dIdn't see that connection and I am pretty up on allergies/intolerances. Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into that.

I do eat a lot of other foods like olives and cheese with no trouble, which I would have related to histamines. Now I have to go check out that list. Thanks!

Dragonwolf

Glad I could help!

It's easy to get caught up in the individual allergies and not realize that it's...kind of...not the foods, themselves, but rather their natural histamine level or their tendency to "liberate" histamine when digested, and that it's this commonality and not really just a long list of stuff you're allergic to (because it's histamines that you're intolerant to, and those foods just happen to have more in them, if that makes sense).

RalfLott

Yes that does make sense. Nice explanation, thanks.

RunRachelleRun

I do have a long list of allergens - foods (shellfish, eggs, legumes) and environmental (pollen, latex, rosin/colophony) - that I have an anaphylactic reaction to and am required to carry an Epi-pen for.

The histamine reaction is only a few years old, around the same time as the gallbladder trouble. I noticed I started getting a stuffy nose every time I drank wine or beer and asked my allergist about it. He told me it is quite common for people as they age.

I wouldn't even consider the list above intolerances as I could eat them fine before I had my gallbladder removed. After doing more research, and since the salmon and pork don't fit into the histamine list, I still have to consider it most likely that my body no longer has a place to store bile and bile is required for digestion of fats, particularly given the yellow/white floating stool (showing a lack of bile and fat malabsorption) when I eat too much fat.

I did eat close to 50% fat today and I have only had small issues so far. I just ate my largest fat meal, so we'll see what happens next. I'm wondering if I spread the fat out carefully over the course of the day, can it be slowly increased even further? After eating at close to 20% for the last few years, it is pretty amazing.

Anyway, I really do appreciate the suggestion and feedback. I'm learning so much!

Majcolorado

@RunRachelleRun

You might be able to go back to running your half on just water by taking electrolyte capsules. I used to get stomach issues during races from drinks with simple sugars, so did some research and found these: http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/endurolytes.elt.html

Capsule form, no mixing, no taste, work like magic. I've been using them for over 15 years.

RunRachelleRun

Awesome @Majcolorado ! Thanks for the link. I was trying to figure out what to do as I have a Gatorade allergy (ester gum/rosin ingredient), so could only access water along the course. Wasn't sure I could carry enough of my own mix. I will definitely try this. Cheers!

co_lau

@RunRachelleRun Another option is to pre-load the race course. I don't drink Gatorade, Powerade, or Hammer which are almost always the electrolyte replacement option served on distance courses in Colorado. I have taken small bottles and put Nuun in them and set them just past a planned water station on the course. There are many strategies to get a person through a long run / race with the fueling they need, without necessarily carrying the fuel yourself.

RunRachelleRun

@co_lau I was trying to figure out how one would go about doing this ... By bike? It would have to be done early morning and it is in a park with no road access to the water stations. Do you need to get permission from the race first?

The calcium carbonate in the Nuun bothers my tummy during runs. Otherwise, it would be easy to carry the tabs.

co_lau

@RunRachelleRun You can use a bike, sure, or just walk out to it. I've never gotten permission from a race, first. I imagine that carrying Nuun tabs would be difficult, as then you have to wait for them to dissolve when added to water...