Ketosis and significant weight gain question
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BaconSan2
Posts: 260 Member
Is it possible to gain weight (I mean more than a pound or two) and still be in a state of ketosis? Or do you have slip back into the old regular way of eating - carb burning before weight gain can happen? No, it is not happening to me but I was just wondering about it.
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From WebMD
"Ketosis is a normal metabolic process, something your body does to keep working. When it doesn't have enough carbohydrates from food for your cells to burn for energy, it burns fat instead. As part of this process, it makes ketones.
If you're healthy and eating a balanced diet, your body controls how much fat it burns, and you don't normally make or use ketones. But when you cut way back on your calories or carbs, your body will switch to ketosis for energy. It can also happen after exercising for a long time and during pregnancy. For people with uncontrolled diabetes, ketosis is a sign of not using enough insulin."
My guess is that if you are eating more calories than you need, even if you are eating LCHF, you will put on weight and knock yourself out of ketosis. It just seems to make sense.2 -
Calories still matter with a ketogenic diet, you can very easily gain weight2
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I don't know if excess CALORIES kick a person out of ketosis....but yeah, you can still gain weight IN KETOSIS.
Any thoughts @KnitOrMiss @RalfLott @Gallowmere1984 @Sunny_Bunny_ @baconslave ?1 -
Is it possible to gain weight (I mean more than a pound or two) and still be in a state of ketosis? Or do you have slip back into the old regular way of eating - carb burning before weight gain can happen? No, it is not happening to me but I was just wondering about it.
Yes. Eating way too much will create an energy surplus that must either be burned or stored. The deal with ketosis is that it creates a hormone environment that is conducive to decreasing inflammation and imbalances that tip the processes in favor of fat storage. And also helps with adherence in that it can naturally decrease appetite, so it's easier to maintain the deficit needed.
But I don't have much of a satiety reflex. If I don't watch things closely, I can pack a lot of calories in, and I have gained weight on keto. Some people bulking use keto to gain muscle as well. It is used to gain or lose weight.
We all know that calories are king, but when we switch up the fuel formula, things work a little differently. Like I find on Keto I could get away with eating more calories than I was supposed to vs. High carb low fat. However, too much is too much, and even Keto-folk reach a point where too much in results in weight gain. None of us are immune from the affects of biological processes.
Can anyone access the pic @wabmester posted about how LCHF really works? My laptop is still not working and this tablet is a pill!SuperCarLori wrote: »I don't know if excess CALORIES kick a person out of ketosis....but yeah, you can still gain weight IN KETOSIS.
Any thoughts @KnitOrMiss @RalfLott @Gallowmere1984 @Sunny_Bunny_ @baconslave ?
Super low calories can put you into ketosis. But as far as I know, if someone stays at Keto level carbs, there is no calorie intake that will kick you out.
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baconslave wrote: »Eating way too much will create an energy surplus that must either be burned or stored. ... If I don't watch things closely, I can pack a lot of calories in, and I have gained weight on keto. Some people bulking use keto to gain muscle as well. It is used to gain or lose weight.
We all know that calories are king, but when we switch up the fuel formula, things work a little differently. Like I find on Keto I could get away with eating more calories than I was supposed to vs. High carb low fat. However, too much is too much, and even Keto-folk reach a point where too much in results in weight gain. None of us are immune from the affects of biological processes.
Super low calories can put you into ketosis. But as far as I know, if someone stays at Keto level carbs, there is no calorie intake that will kick you out.
Perfectly put!
That's my understanding, too, derived mostly from Phinney and Volek's books and vids. Their recommended approach to weight loss is designed to maintain ketosis after shifting the nutrition plan from weight-loss to maintenance phases, which involves increasing calories from fat (while retaining the carb ceiling and protein target).
If you don't consume enough dietary fat for your body's energy needs in ketosis, it will turn to your *ahem* reserves. If you consume more dietary fat than your body can use, something has to be done with it, (Phinney and Volek reported greater addition of lean muscle mass by athletes on a ketogenic diet....) But the extra fat shouldn't suddenly turn you into a glucose-burner, as that requires carbs and/or excess protein.
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Found the link I was thinking of:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10435220/how-low-carb-diets-actually-work#latest
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Thank you all for the valuable information - five thumbs up!1
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Weight gain is absolutely possible on Keto. In some cases, even when calorie intake shouldn't be high enough to cause it.
My example is my daughter who was very sick. A T1D with absolutely awful blood sugar control and taking 120+ units of insulin a day, still running blood sugars in the 300's+!
She went Keto and on an insulin pump the same day. Reduced insulin needs by half the first day and achieved normal blood sugars immediately. Within 2 days, she put on 20 pounds! I know, this wasn't fat of course, but I think her body was preparing for the actual fat that would be coming since she was finally achieving a healthy blood sugar and low insulin. Over the next few months, she never lost that initial water weight and it eventually became a 30 pound gain of actual body fat. Even though, those first few months, she wasn't eating very much because she really wasn't very hungry and she was very concerned about the weight gain, even though she needed to gain weight. She was only 100 lbs at 5'7"! She definitely has/had some body image issues that seem to be corrected now as she finally admits that she looked bad at that weight. Though she loved "being skinny" then.
Anyway, it is a particularly unusual example but I think it's important to realize that our bodies ultimately call the shots no matter what we try to do diet wise.3 -
CaliforniaAJ wrote: »From WebMD
"Ketosis is a normal metabolic process, something your body does to keep working. When it doesn't have enough carbohydrates from food for your cells to burn for energy, it burns fat instead. As part of this process, it makes ketones.
If you're healthy and eating a balanced diet, your body controls how much fat it burns, and you don't normally make or use ketones. But when you cut way back on your calories or carbs, your body will switch to ketosis for energy. It can also happen after exercising for a long time and during pregnancy. For people with uncontrolled diabetes, ketosis is a sign of not using enough insulin."
My guess is that if you are eating more calories than you need, even if you are eating LCHF, you will put on weight and knock yourself out of ketosis. It just seems to make sense.
Ugh...there is so much wrong with this quote. WebMD has gone the way of the dodo...
Regardless of diet, the body controls how much fat it burns. If you're eating more than about 100g of carbs, your body will not make or use ketones, because it has enough glucose to not require it. When you go below about 100g of carbs, regardless of calorie level, or if you cut your calories so severely that you're not getting enough energy overall, you'll go into a state of ketosis to one degree or another. Technically speaking, since ketones are a product of fat burning, if you're losing weight at all, your body is, in fact, making and burning ketones. It's just that a small deficit and higher carbs means there won't be enough to register on meters. Basically, any time you've burned through your consumed carbohydrates and a chunk of your glycogen, you'll be in a state of ketosis.
Regarding uncontrolled diabetes -- assuming the person is eating a higher carb diet, if they see elevated ketones, then yes, it is a sign of not enough insulin. This is especially the case with ketone levels significantly above about 5mmol. If they're eating low carb, then that's not necessarily the case (but one could also argue that their Diabetes is "in control," since LCHF is known to turn it around in as little as a month).
If you keep your carbohydrate intake low enough, there is no calorie level that will knock you out of ketosis. As stated, ketosis is a product of fat burning. Even if you're eating a calorie surplus, your fuel source is fat. It doesn't matter if it's body fat or consumed fat, your body will make ketones. Additionally, healthy fat storage/utilization is a cycle of storage and utilization as the body needs it. This means that you'll burn and store body fat as needed and dictated by intake or activity level. If you go on a fasted bike ride, you'll burn body fat, even if you don't need to lose weight. When you eat again, the body will store the fuel it doesn't need right at that moment. It balances out over time if your intake and output are balanced.
However, it is still possible to gain weight while still being in ketosis. Ketosis and weight loss are not the same thing. Calories do still matter. You can't be sedentary and expect to be able to eat 5000 calories and not gain weight, even if you are in ketosis the whole time.5 -
Dragonwolf quote: If you keep your carbohydrate intake low enough, there is no calorie level that will knock you out of ketosis
What would be the carb intake number? Is it general or individual?
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Dragonwolf quote:
What would be the carb intake number? Is it general or individual?If you keep your carbohydrate intake low enough, there is no calorie level that will knock you out of ketosis
According to Phinney & Volek, it's individual - you have to find it, and it may well change as you lose weight.
They suggest 50g net carbs as a ball park starting figure. But even assuming one could precisely estimate that figure during the course of a day, it could be too high, and if it all comes in a single blast, that could be a problem. However, you can get back into ketosis after a minor excess by burning through the carbs with exercise.
(Note - the pee sticks tend to lag behind what's going on in your body, whereas the breath and blood tests are more current as well as more accurate.)
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Dragonwolf wrote: »WebMD has gone the way of the dodo....
Yep. You'd think some of their writers were auditioning for the ADA.
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Thanks RalfLott & Dragonwolf. Too bad about WebMD.
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