4 Legged Friends
RowdysLady
Posts: 1,370 Member
So completely unrelated to our WOE but...maybe someone has some experience...
My oldest dog, Bagel, is a big guy. He's about 8 years old, part German Shepherd part Boxer and just gets bigger the older he gets. He clearly has some hip dysplasia now. He's become VERY testy lately. He's never been aggressive, ever but now he's becoming not only food aggressive with the other dogs but he's tormenting our youngest dog. Granted the youngest dog, Pixel, may be the most uncoordinated, dumbest dog I've ever met and doesn't learn from his mistakes (like getting too close to Bagel). It seems to get worse by the day. I wonder if the pain in his hip is part of it or if it's simply age but I'm afraid that when he finally fully attacks one of the other dogs it's going to cause an all out war with all 4 dogs and one of us will wind up hurt trying to control whatever happens. I would hate to put him down but I also hate that I know he's hurting and angry.
Any thoughts?
On another cuter, sweeter note, we got a kitten that Anna named Lucifer from a friend to be a barn cat to chase the rats out of the livestock feed and garden. Well Lucifer figured out that we have a dog door to the house and decided to be an inside cat. The first time he came in I made Anna take him back out but the next time I was home alone, working and knew that trying to put him back in the barn all day wouldn't work so he stayed in with me.
Can I just say that kittens are so freaking cute I can't stand it. I've never had a kitten before, only cats and one minute in the house watching his little kitten antics had me sold. He's now a house kitten and I just love him. Guess we will keep feeding the barn rats.
He's not part of the Bagel issue, by the way, Bagel couldn't care less about Lucifer or our adult cat Callie.
My oldest dog, Bagel, is a big guy. He's about 8 years old, part German Shepherd part Boxer and just gets bigger the older he gets. He clearly has some hip dysplasia now. He's become VERY testy lately. He's never been aggressive, ever but now he's becoming not only food aggressive with the other dogs but he's tormenting our youngest dog. Granted the youngest dog, Pixel, may be the most uncoordinated, dumbest dog I've ever met and doesn't learn from his mistakes (like getting too close to Bagel). It seems to get worse by the day. I wonder if the pain in his hip is part of it or if it's simply age but I'm afraid that when he finally fully attacks one of the other dogs it's going to cause an all out war with all 4 dogs and one of us will wind up hurt trying to control whatever happens. I would hate to put him down but I also hate that I know he's hurting and angry.
Any thoughts?
On another cuter, sweeter note, we got a kitten that Anna named Lucifer from a friend to be a barn cat to chase the rats out of the livestock feed and garden. Well Lucifer figured out that we have a dog door to the house and decided to be an inside cat. The first time he came in I made Anna take him back out but the next time I was home alone, working and knew that trying to put him back in the barn all day wouldn't work so he stayed in with me.
Can I just say that kittens are so freaking cute I can't stand it. I've never had a kitten before, only cats and one minute in the house watching his little kitten antics had me sold. He's now a house kitten and I just love him. Guess we will keep feeding the barn rats.
He's not part of the Bagel issue, by the way, Bagel couldn't care less about Lucifer or our adult cat Callie.
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My dogs hips are getting bad. He's around 14. He's not really aggressive but he steals food from us and the cat now and he didn't before. He's also snapped at the cat a few times. Not violently just like a little growl and then stormed off to the other room. That was new behavior. I'd say maybe because he wasn't feeling good. The vet gave him Mobic to take daily and it seems to help him a lot. He still eats like a shark on a feeding frenzy but he's not grumpy with the cat anymore.1
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I wondered about something just to help him feel better. I suppose a trip to the vet is in order. Off to look up Mobic...
The other thing Bagel has started doing is whining and begging for food. That's new in the last 4 months or so. We put food out for all the dogs in the morning and he eats that too but begs from us like he was never taught manners. I'd said for years he's the best dog I've ever had. Well behaved, friendly, good with other animals, didn't beg....now he's a total curmudgeon.0 -
I think your Bagel is probably in pain and that's making him cranky. Plus he could be losing his eyesight or hearing so having the other dog approach him is a surprise because he didn't see or hear them coming. All age-related things and not much you can do unless he responds to some of the anti-inflammatories your vet will probably prescribe. So sad when our pets get old on us!
In the short term, you might try to keep Bagel away from the others as much as you can, feed him in a crate or separate room, try to get the others to not engage in play.
Good for you for recognizing it early and looking for a solution!
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I would check his blood sugar. Not sure what's considered normal for dogs though. Would have to check into that.
Honestly, I'd consider a keto diet for him. Could help with the chronic pain and the overactive eating, which makes me wonder about his blood sugar.2 -
Speaking of pets and blood sugar, I have 2 cats from the same litter. Mittens is diabetic and was able to get off of insulin by eating low carb wet food. Until that happened, I never really gave enough thought about what my cats were eating. The cheap stuff (dry kibble) has tons of carbs... my fur-babies are more like me than I realized at first.6
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A full blood panel might be in order. My favourite dog of all time, not ours but a friend's, went from being a great big sweetie to snapping at people. Turned out he was diabetic and must have felt awful for a long time. Another of our favourite dog friends became lethargic and depressed -- she was diagnosed with thyroid disease.
Our furry friends get most of the same diseases we do.5 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ that's a very good point.
Rowdy loves his ice cream, his bread and he loves Bagel. Almost every night after dinner they have bowl of ice cream. Rowdy eats what he wants then leaves at least 2 spoons for Bagel. He probably eats 12 sandwiches a week and Bagel gets about 1/3 of them. Until about a year or so ago Bagel never ate ice cream or bread like that. We have always fed him from the table (I know, bad thing) but he's never eaten bread and ice cream like he does now. It was always left over meat scraps.
I will have Rowdy stop sharing for a while and see if that helps Bagel. Maybe if it does, Rowdy will see the low carb benefits via the eyes of his favorite pup since I can't convince him...
I also know that Bagel is losing his hearing, @lauriehikes. He got yeast in his ears as a pup and the vet told me that once a dog gets yeast in his ears you really can't totally get rid of it and eventually he'd be deaf. I can see how his hearing has declined in the last year or so. By the by...you can use Monistat (or genero) cream in dogs ears to help control yeast. It's also a good point that the pup is sneaking up on him and startling him.
A combo of things for sure the more you guys bring up great points but I'm starting with the carbs.
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@Sunny_Bunny_ I thought about diabetes maybe being a factor with my dog. He has within the last year became insane about food. Like he stares and drools while we eat. Leaps for our plate if we set it down. Stands behind the cat while she eats so the second she pauses he can swoop in and eat her food! He never begged before. For the past 14 years we've been able to just pour the cat food in her bowl and she eats when she's hungry and he had always left it alone. Now I have to give her tiny portions 100 times a day to keep the dog from eating everything!1
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Oh! that's something else...he drools now too. I noticed that about 3 months ago. He was never a drooler. Jimeny Cricket...the more I hear from you guys the more I realize he has symptoms on top of symptoms...of something. Yep, carb watching first.0
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Also for hip dysplasia or arthritis you can use glucosamine & chondroitin supplements - you can get them from the vet, but that is way more expensive than human supplements and they work just as well if you follow certain directions.
peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2084&aid=670
https://dogs.thefuntimesguide.com/dog_glucosamine/
My aunt's little pug-a-poo had diabetes and had to get an insulin shot every day. He did well on it and was really well behaved when getting his meds too. He probably would have benefitted from a lower carb diet although he was fed a special diabetic dog food at the time. I didn't know much about diabetes in dogs then so I'm not sure how low in carbs the food was.2 -
@canadjineh I make Rowdy take both of those - he can share that with Bagel instead of ice cream!2
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dogs are meant to be carnivores, they don't need to eat anything but meat, and anything but meat is generally not good for them, so definitely stop feeding him bread and ice cream, it's probably causing the symptoms.
Lucifer sounds adorable, and don't give up on him being a good mouser just because he's indoors as a kitten, as long as you let him outside and he has the mouser gene, he will get to catching those rats as soon as he's big enough to take them down...of course, he may bring them inside via the dog door to play with them, so that might not be totally good...2 -
A lot of dog foods are filled with corn as their first ingredient, where it should be meat as the first ingredient. The corn food can cause them to be overweight and always hungry (sound familiar?). If he already has arthritis then the weight could be causing it to be worse and inflaming his joints. I heard the absolute best food is the refrigerated/raw food but Blue Buffalo is supposed to be great for dry food. It might be worth doing some experimenting and seeing if changing up his food helps any.
http://betterfoodfordogs.com/best-worst-dog-food/
This seems like a nice site to peruse and look for the best food:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/raw/5-star/
Of course check with your vet and make sure it's not something more serious.1 -
He sounds to be in pain to me. I would bring him to the vet soon to be evaluated and treated, I bet that fixes the grouchies. I second the glucosamine, we have all our old and creaky dogs on it (recommended by our Vet).
As far as diabetes go: dogs get the same symptoms as humans - the "polys". Polydypsia (excessive drinking/thirst), polyuria (excessive urination) and polyphagia (excessive hunger). We know when our diabetic dog's sugar is high because he will just drink and drink and drink. My mom had a diabetic dog, diagnosed after he kept peeing a ton of pee on the floor. Blood sugar can be checked with a human glucose meter and the parameters are the same as humans pretty much. If he does have "the sugar" it is so easy to control in dogs. Feed twice a day, insulin twice a day. No snacks, no treats. We get our insulin from Walmart, Novolin N. It is their brand of Humalin N, but only $25 a vial as opposed to $160 or so.
Good luck, hope he feels better soon!0 -
Not only will the kitten bring critters to play with, she will bring them dead and leave for you as little gifts. That means that she loves you ;-)3
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@missippibelle One of my dogs, Molly, already does that. She's the best hunter...birds, rats, bunnies... One day I woke up and Molly was laying on her blanket with what I thought was a stuffed toy. As my eyes adjusted I realized it was the tiniest baby bunny. It seemed fine but didn't live when I took him away from her. I really think she scared it to death. I'm always finding icky stuff in the house thanks to "Molly the dog that thinks she's a cat". AND...because we live so far out in the country when cows and other animals die they are just left to rot away. We also have boar out here which are often shot and left for dead. All the dogs bring in the hides and bones every chance they get. I found a cow tongue in my living room one morning...that was freaking gross!1
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RowdysLady wrote: »@missippibelle One of my dogs, Molly, already does that. She's the best hunter...birds, rats, bunnies... One day I woke up and Molly was laying on her blanket with what I thought was a stuffed toy. As my eyes adjusted I realized it was the tiniest baby bunny. It seemed fine but didn't live when I took him away from her. I really think she scared it to death. I'm always finding icky stuff in the house thanks to "Molly the dog that thinks she's a cat". AND...because we live so far out in the country when cows and other animals die they are just left to rot away. We also have boar out here which are often shot and left for dead. All the dogs bring in the hides and bones every chance they get. I found a cow tongue in my living room one morning...that was freaking gross!
If you/Rowdy have a chance to hunt a boar or know someone who will do it for you, wild boar meat is veery tasty!
Re dogs and diabetes. Pets are increasingly getting DM and cancer in the western world. Did you know there's an ongoing research project with dogs, keto and cancer? If he really loves Bagel, he should stop "loving him to death" with feeding him icecream and such. As @canadjineh said...Dogs are meant to be carnivorous, stemming from wolves.
Ketopets is really interesting, because it might help get the lowcarb lifestyle gain traction in the mainstream faster. People may not wanna change their diet. But many owners will do whatever it takes to prolong or save their pets. Since there's a strong correlation between T2D and cancer in humans, I'd guess the same goes for dogs too. My dad used to feed our dog 1 whole icecream EVERY day. No matter how l pleaded him to stop, he insisted on this routine. She ended with horrible cysts that eventually metastasized. I wonder if we hadn't fed her all those leftover carbs + ice cream on top of her regular diet, if she'd avoided cancer for a longer time?
http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/could-change-diet-cure-your-dog-s-cancer/96194
Edit: Here's a presentation of Ketopets on the Epigenix Foundation YT. Results so far: Longer survival rates, some cases of keeping cancer in check and some complete reversals of tumors. Not all survive, so it's NOT magic. But all in all, pretty promising!
https://youtu.be/0vRr65_6dOE 1 -
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@Foamroller I 100% agree with that - I've seen peoples pets turn completely around eating a raw or 100% meat based diet. Even their coats got shinier. Most of the dry pet foods are awful and loaded with corn and additives. I mean, they're affordable, but not the best especially for older pets. I think even canned cat/dog food is supposed to be better than dry.
I'm not hating on you or judging you at all by the way @RowdysLady, all of this is a learning process for everyone.. both pets and humans
Nothin but love!! 1 -
Oh and if he likes ice cream, he will love any meat based "popsicle" you make him! You could put tinned dog food in a small old container or ice cube tray you don't use and freeze it.. and whenever he wants an ice cream give him one of those suckers. That'll keep him busy lol.1
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Oh and if he likes ice cream, he will love any meat based "popsicle" you make him! You could put tinned dog food in a small old container or ice cube tray you don't use and freeze it.. and whenever he wants an ice cream give him one of those suckers. That'll keep him busy lol.
That's a great tip! Putting that one in my back pocket.1 -
@Foamroller I 100% agree with that - I've seen peoples pets turn completely around eating a raw or 100% meat based diet. Even their coats got shinier. Most of the dry pet foods are awful and loaded with corn and additives. I mean, they're affordable, but not the best especially for older pets. I think even canned cat/dog food is supposed to be better than dry.
I'm not hating on you or judging you at all by the way @RowdysLady, all of this is a learning process for everyone.. both pets and humans Nothin but love!!
No worries - I came here for help! I've always owned dogs but this is the first time I've ever had one get like this so I needed the advice. While I've always fed them table meat scraps the ice cream and bread is new since Rowdy and I have been together. When he moved in just over a year ago he took a special liking to Bagel and likes to share with him.
After I posted this and got some answers from everyone I told Rowdy what I'd learned from you very intelligent people and he stopped giving Bagel the treats. Bagel, like the other dogs is back to only meat scraps now. He's also on glucosamine now.
The food I buy is high protein and low fillers but I was wondering if I needed to get something better for him due to his age. We put the food out each morning in piles for the dogs but Bagel gets to sleep in the bedroom (when I traveled for work he used to sleep in my spot on the bed!) and he usually doesn't eat til later whereas the other pups eat in the mornings. I could feed him separately for sure.
and I think I will make him some popsicles...great idea!!2 -
Great, let me know how he likes them!0
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QUOTE: " Bagel gets to sleep in the bedroom (when I traveled for work he used to sleep in my spot on the bed!) and he usually doesn't eat til later whereas the other pups eat in the mornings."
IF for dogs, WTG, @RowdysLady!! 0 -
canadjineh wrote: »QUOTE: " Bagel gets to sleep in the bedroom (when I traveled for work he used to sleep in my spot on the bed!) and he usually doesn't eat til later whereas the other pups eat in the mornings."
IF for dogs, WTG, @RowdysLady!!
LMAO! Now if I could do it for this human!0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I would check his blood sugar. Not sure what's considered normal for dogs though. Would have to check into that.
Honestly, I'd consider a keto diet for him. Could help with the chronic pain and the overactive eating, which makes me wonder about his blood sugar.
A friend's neurologist, who put my friend's DH on a ketogenic diet due to Alzheimer's, also has his own dog on a ketogenic diet which includes coconut oil. This is for a large German Shepherd.
On the snappiness note, I had a golden mix who developed arthritis as he aged. He reached a point when, if someone other than my H or I touched him, he would turn and snap at them right in their face. It was frightening as I was afraid he would hurt someone. So I had to put a humane muzzle on him whenever company with kids were coming over. Adults will leave a dog alone when asked, but kids find them an irresistible draw.
We now have a 120 pound Great Pyrenees who is developing hip issues. The vet suggested 1-TDC to help her joints (and it is also good for periodontal issues, too). It isn't cheap with a large dog (5 capsules per day for 30 days and then 3 per day thereafter), but it has been helping. Good luck finding a solution. It is so hard to so goodbye to a good dog.
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thanks @suzqtme. One of our other dogs is a Great Pyrenees and she's huge so I get it. Interesting you mention periodontal issues with that dog. Miyuki from a very young age started losing her front teeth. She has none in the very front on the top now and she's only about 3-4 years old. Most were missing or broken when we got her. She was a puppy stray and I just figured it was due to whatever happened before she happened to us.0
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tcunbeliever wrote: »
Lucifer sounds adorable, and don't give up on him being a good mouser just because he's indoors as a kitten, as long as you let him outside and he has the mouser gene, he will get to catching those rats as soon as he's big enough to take them down...of course, he may bring them inside via the dog door to play with them, so that might not be totally good...
I couldn't sleep last night so I went out to the living room and found Lucifer playing with a very small mouse! He is a mouser!! That thrills me, but the idea that the mouse may have been in the house doesn't! Serves me right for living on a ranch surrounded by pasture, I suppose.1 -
Here's my favorite Pyrenees. So lucky she adopted us!
Daisy in the daisies!
Snuggle time!
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Here's my favorite Pyrenees. So lucky she adopted us! Daisy in the daisies! Snuggle time!
Wow @suzqtme ...she is gorgeous!!!
I've always wanted a really BIG dog; although, I've had my eye on a Great Dane but have shied away because of their tendency for short lives with health problems. So instead, I have a 12 1/2 year old rescued Shar-pei/Lab mix. She lost a few pounds when I started eating LCHF because I stopped baking carb-based doggy treats for her when I stopped baking 'healthy' oatmeal muffins and other 'healthy' carb-heavy treats for myself.2
