Refeed/Cheat Days.. when and how much?

aspoerr1

So typically I have a cheat day on Sundays to indulge in the foods I miss. I know it has set me back in the past and I'm working on making it more of a refeed day than a cheat. Cut out the fats and raise the leptin levels without gaining back all I worked to lose.

Question is, do you do refeed or cheat days? How often do you do yours? What does a typically refeed/cheat look to you?

My breakfasts are usually on point. Proats with just a little fruit, berries, and powdered peanut butter. Yum. But from there it's lately been turning into a ' I'm not sure what to eat so I'll just eat ANYTHING carby! '

moonlights

A cheat day tends to stall my losses for at least a week so I wouldn't want to have them more than every 3 months or so. It depends if/how much you're trying to lose, I guess?

603PIPER

I try to keep my cheats to one meal a week. If I have been really on track I may splurge with a small piece of chocolate, or something sweet. I have noticed now that my carb and sugar intake is lower, sweets taste so much better when I do have them, makes it more rewarding!

But when I do have a cheat meal, usually the next day I will try to counter it by keeping my carbs very low compared to my usual 30g limit.

DietPrada

Never, and none. Simply because it takes a few days to get into Keto, even longer to become adapted and over the headaches and other adjustment symptoms, and one sandwich to ruin the effort. Not to mention the returned cravings and hunger and the struggle to get back under control. Not worth it.

Gallowmere1984

Once per week, usually on Saturday now. I can get away without them on normal caloric intake, but they are mandatory with my current intake. It's not for foods I miss though. I am not a fan of carb heavy stuff. Unfortunately my current cutting method requires them. I find potatoes tolerable at least, so that's generally what gets used.

And for me, it's not a cheat day. It's a five hour window after lifting on that day where I have to get in 350-400g of carbs. Would probably be easier if I used sugary garbage, but screw that noise.

HawkPNP

I can't -- I get carb crabby and stall myself too long. Plus, my fibro pain return with inflammation.

BT_rescuemom

I had one cheat meal since I started 23 days ago and it really screwed me up. I won't be doing that again because of how crummy I felt for a few days after and how much it triggered my carb cravings. So the answer for me is no, I don't incorporate cheat meals and don't plan to. It is not beneficial for me, at least at this point. Maybe once I am at goal weight or something.

tribal351

Never. I don't want to run the risk of enjoying it too much.

nvmomketo

I don't plan high carb cheats. I'm in this for the health benefits so planning high carb days would ruin that.

That being said, I have had some high low-carb days where I've eaten more carbs than I should. I don't feel that well afterwards though, and my blood glucose may be blown for a day or two.

Cadori

I haven't since I started 7 weeks ago. I'm afraid it will be a slippery slope for me.

AshStout83

I started this WOE on 8/14. I haven't had a cheat meal or day and I don't want to. It doesn't appeal to me.

RowdysLady

I ate a cupcake and fell off the wagon...still not back on 100%...no cheating only kills me.

jassnip

@aspoerr1 I did a cheat day several weeks ago. It was planned as well as my food following the cheat day for a week. Just to make sure that it was only ONE day and I could indeed get back on track right away. I could and I did, but I may be the exception that proves the rule as that seems to be a recurring theme in my life.

I think if you are interested in carb cycling you could look at either Carb Nite (Stressing one refeed day a week but it's really easy to take it too far) or Alt-Shift (5days 30g carb or under, then 3 days of under 40g of fat, which stresses metabolic flexibility). Both of those accommodate the Leptin issues.

coloradoartstudio

No cheat days with food, but definitely with alcohol, especially wine. Mostly weekends. It's shifting though...I just can't drink as much now because I can really feel it in the morning if I over indulge. I'd rather feel good than not.

My fam and I were just talking about thanksgiving. I plan to remain compliant, but my husband is going to take a day break for stuffing, pie, etc. I don't think it will stall him too much - he will eat whatever I put in front of him without too much complaining.

Sarahb29

My cheat days are Tuesdays because Tuesday is wing night, LOL. I do my best to have my "cheat" days be more high calorie days rather than high carb, because I don't want to waste any time burning carbs/glucose then switching back to fats again. Weekends I usually have higher calorie meals too because keto pancakes and bacon are life. This is all personal preference though!

collegefbfan

Haven't really done what I would consider a full fledged cheat. The breaded piece of fish and chicken or 2 or 3 at the boat show in South Carolina taught me a lesson. Nothing bad happened, but keto number was surely down a lot. I agree with a lot of the others on here. If I had a full cheat meal or day, it would return those cravings, stall the progress I have tried like hell to achieve, and probably make feel like a mixture of a dumpster and someone's toilet. No thanks.

Catawampous

I don't. Because I'm a binger and a demon will be let loose. I have found though with this way of eating I don't really want to. Which is cool!

aspoerr1

Wow, thanks for all the input ! My body is weird.. I'm able to jump right back onto my diet after my cheat/refeed days.. and usually I hardly feel any keto-flu-like symptoms. I guess everybody is different.

I do however like to binge on that particular day.. that is my downfall

Anybody do any type of cyclical keto specifically?

canadjineh

@aspoerr1 I'm going to try this once I lose the 8 left to get back to goal weight:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3875914/
Long Term Successful Weight Loss with a Combination Biphasic Ketogenic Mediterranean Diet and Mediterranean Diet Maintenance Protocol
Listened to a really interesting talk about it on the KetoSummit earlier this month.

If you are into recomp via lifting AND food cycle, this site has additional info, also @Gallowmere1984 is doing something similar I think. Try messaging him or check this thread: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10442337/phase-2-the-keto-bulk#latest
Also check with @samanthaluangphixay - she lifts too.

kpk54

That's a pretty interesting article @canadjineh and I too remember a similar discussion in one of the ketosummit interviews. I have long suspected "increased circulating grehlin" as the problem I was experiencing after weight loss, in maintenance. Based on calorie intake alone there was absolutely no reason for me to be experiencing this hunger. In my case, I did not have a severe calorie restriction when losing weight so was completely taken aback that I could have messed up my metabolism or hormones as often happens in very low calorie diets. Just another physiological reason maintenance is difficult. Good to read that keto does not seem to have as much negative impact on RMR and hunger hormones.

AshStout83

I was only talking about cheating with carbs, like having pasta or fries. I have gone slightly over my 50 carb limit and I've gone over in calories. I don't track either anymore. I eat when I'm hungry and I know how many carbs are in the things I eat. Having a full blown cheat meal or day doesn't appeal to me, because of all of the posts I've read about the suffering of those who have. I don't crave carbs and I don't want to go through the keto flu ever again.

Gallowmere1984

canadjineh wrote: »

@aspoerr1 I'm going to try this once I lose the 8 left to get back to goal weight:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3875914/
Long Term Successful Weight Loss with a Combination Biphasic Ketogenic Mediterranean Diet and Mediterranean Diet Maintenance Protocol
Listened to a really interesting talk about it on the KetoSummit earlier this month.

If you are into recomp via lifting AND food cycle, this site has additional info, also @Gallowmere1984 is doing something similar I think. Try messaging him or check this thread: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10442337/phase-2-the-keto-bulk#latest
Also check with @samanthaluangphixay - she lifts too.

Yes, I was using CKD during that phase. I never really went much into the dietary aspect in that thread much. It was more a place for me to keep track of lifts, and any major changes I made to my plan. That said, it basically boiled down to six days per week of 5-6 double protein shakes during the day, then a little over 1000 kcals of ribs or wings at night. Fridays were the refeed days, and tended to get a bit stupid. I went way overboard on everything, got fat, learned from it, never again.

sammyliftsandeats

Thanks for the mention @canadjineh!

Disclaimer: This is an individual experience and I am not insulin resistant, diabetic, and have no history as such. This is a VERY your mileage may vary experience.

I do have off-plan meals. Sometimes more often than I'd like but I am always back on the train the next day. Key is being prepared. Know you're going off plan on Friday night? Have easy low carb foods ready for Saturday!

As for carbs and my lifting, it does help. The easier to use glucose energy source does help me lift more. I pulled a deadlift PR on Saturday morning after an off-plan Friday night. I generally hit PRs after carbing up.

I have been at this for almost a year so I am fat adapted. That generally means that my body knows to burn fat as fuel and it usually gets rid of the glucose/glycogen pretty fast. Sure, there was water weight gain but it wasn't more than 2 lbs and I dropped it pretty fast (about two days).

I do realize that some people cannot do this, as it may cause a downward spiral. Even myself, I would have struggled hard six months ago. In fact, I fell off course during Easter of this past year and it led to a 3 day carb-palooza. I still can't eat sour candies without restraint as I will eat the whole thing. But I am surprisingly OK with stopping at one serving of rice and a few other carbs. But this took a long time and now I use the carbs as fuel for my lifts.

kpk54

I think it would be quite possible for me to eat high carb vegetables and not suffer any negative consequence other than a short term non ketogenic state and slight temporary water weight gain. I've not done that. What I have done is turn to a sugary or salty "junk food" which most often results a binge (jar/tub in hand with spoon or bag on lap) rather than a planned refeed/cheat.

@aspoerr1. How are you defining binge in your post above? My definition includes an extreme amount of calories eaten in an extremely short period of time with seemingly a total inability/desire to stop until whatever I am eating is gone.

Kimo159

For myself, I plan on bringing in refeed days when I'm closer to goal weight (probably within 5 lbs) to see how my body reacts, once a week and timed around my heaviest workouts. Though I would be aiming to get carbs from sources such as rice, pasta, oats, etc. I plan on staying keto in maintenance while increasing my strength in the gym so I would be using that method to help bring me into maintenance mode. Currently, I do occasionally have an off plan meal but they are VERY few and far between (think months). I don't let it go farther than that otherwise I'll start to feel like crap.

So you say that you can have a cheat/refeed day and get back on no problem. Is this method helping you achieve your goals? If so, then I'd say keep doing what you're doing. If not then perhaps you need to take a step back and analyze whether you might need to knock back the refeeds to every 10-14 days instead or completely cut them out until that is in line with your goals.

slimzandra

I am trying to avoid high carb days and sticking to the plan. 20-30g carbs as a consistent goal. Unfortunately, I am now hovering much higher, but have done it in the past and working to get back to it. I am doing great with avoiding sugar and less drinking too. Which really helps.
I don't plan a cheat day, it sometimes just gets away from me and I'm working hard to rein it in. Any kind of excess carbs really impacts my progress forward, if that's what is meant by "refeed" days. I get plenty of food sticking to LCHF foods, so I have no conscious plan to build that in the routine.

Gallowmere1984

slimzandra wrote: »

I am trying to avoid high carb days and sticking to the plan. 20-30g carbs as a consistent goal. Unfortunately, I am now hovering much higher, but have done it in the past and working to get back to it. I am doing great with avoiding sugar and less drinking too. Which really helps.
I don't plan a cheat day, it sometimes just gets away from me and I'm working hard to rein it in. Any kind of excess carbs really impacts my progress forward, if that's what is meant by "refeed" days. I get plenty of food sticking to LCHF foods, so I have no conscious plan to build that in the routine.

A structured refeed is the intentional consumption of several hundred grams of carbs in a short window (a few hours) done specifically for the purpose of refilling glycogen stores, usually after a week long carb depletion phase and/or glycogen depletion targetted lifting. This is most often done using starches, as they break down directly into glucose, as opposed to fructose or sucrose.

Anything else isn't a refeed. It's just eating carbs.

btrsun10

To be perfectly honest, every day feels like a cheat day to me on this woe! Eating cheese, bacon, nuts, peanut butter, butter, cream.......all the things I adore and have avoided over the years. I love it!

fatchimom

I had 7 months of cheat days after gall bladder surgery. Now that I'm back on track and trying to lose the 10 pounds I gained during that time I know I can't let that happen again!!! No more cheat days!!!

Bubba1922

I had promised myself that I will have a cheat day only when I reach my ideal weight - I am still 28 lbs away from goal. I have a cheat day a week mainly eating fruit (Bananas), a toastie or hot cross bun and chocolate. Unlike other members, I do not feel crap afterwards. I will never be a "purist" following LCHF, annoying as I am quite a perfectionist in other ways of life

Gallowmere1984

Bubba1922 wrote: »

I had promised myself that I will have a cheat day only when I reach my ideal weight - I am still 28 lbs away from goal. I have a cheat day a week mainly eating fruit (Bananas), a toastie or hot cross bun and chocolate. Unlike other members, I do not feel crap afterwards. I will never be a "purist" following LCHF, annoying as I am quite a perfectionist in other ways of life

Some people just tolerate it much better than others. I feel amazing and kill PRs after my CKD refeeds. There are others however, who would feel like total *kitten* for days after eating two pounds of potatoes and 2/3 of a pack of bagels in a few hours.