December Q and A thread

135

Replies

  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    Random questions:

    1) Is there any non-competitive (health, physique, fitness) benefit to Olympic lifting? I.e. if one has no intention of competing, would there be benefit to doing these lifts over other resistance training.

    2) When progressing on band assisted chin ups, at which point to do you move to a lower strength band? I can do 3x6 with a "75 lb" band on my knee, should I wait until I can do 10, or buy the next band down at this point?

    1) I would imagine yes there are benefits, but the question I would have would be whether or not the benefits would be worth the time investment to learn the skill as those are quite technically demanding. It also depends heavily on the goal.

    2) What is your goal right now with regards to this? What rate of progress are you making with the 75lb band? Is it still working?

    Immediate goal: complete the workouts where chin ups are called for
    Short term goal: get stronger at vertical pulling motions
    Long term goal: do an unassisted chin up (probably pretty far off, sort of in the "well, that would be cool" category but it's not a major life goal or anything)

    I think I am still making progress with the 75 lb band. 2-ish months ago I could only do 4, 3, 3, now at 3x6.

    I switched from the 100 lb band at around this point where I could do 6 in a row, and could only do 1-2 on the 75 lb band. This was probably 4-5 months ago, but I didn't do them some months. I started in April only able to do negatives on the 100 lb band.

    Sounds like you're doing well.

    You could keep going, or you could also incorporate the new band in conjunction with the old one.

    So just for example if the new band allows you to do 3x2 you could do something like this (just one example and I'll assume it's a 50lb band but I'm just guessing and this is just one example)

    Day 1: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 8 (leave 2 reps in the tank on all sets)
    Day 2: 50lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)
    Day 3: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)

    Depending on how many reps you get on day 2, you may need to increase sets by 1 set/week.

    This would be one way to autoregulate volume to a degree (number of reps is dictated by relative fatigue on a per set basis) and see if volume goes up over time.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
    Do you remember this thread? Life probably got busy as it always does but I was still curious your thoughts on the subject if you have time. you can reply here since if you like since that thread is no longer active.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10473331/obesity-are-you-just-lazy-and-dumb#latest
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    ryry_ wrote: »
    Do you remember this thread? Life probably got busy as it always does but I was still curious your thoughts on the subject if you have time. you can reply here since if you like since that thread is no longer active.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10473331/obesity-are-you-just-lazy-and-dumb#latest

    Hey dude, thank you so much for the reminder. I just completely forgot about this.

    I'll try to reply to this soon.
  • AigreDoux
    AigreDoux Posts: 594 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »
    Sounds like you're doing well.

    You could keep going, or you could also incorporate the new band in conjunction with the old one.

    So just for example if the new band allows you to do 3x2 you could do something like this (just one example and I'll assume it's a 50lb band but I'm just guessing and this is just one example)

    Day 1: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 8 (leave 2 reps in the tank on all sets)
    Day 2: 50lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)
    Day 3: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)

    Depending on how many reps you get on day 2, you may need to increase sets by 1 set/week.

    This would be one way to autoregulate volume to a degree (number of reps is dictated by relative fatigue on a per set basis) and see if volume goes up over time.

    Thanks! This is really helpful!

    A couple more things though?

    I currently only do chin ups once a week, following Strong Curves and that's what it calls for. And like I said chin ups are not a huge goal of mine right now. So would/could you do something like 50 lb band, 1 set RPE 10 (probably only 1-2 reps), then finish with 75 lb band at RPE 8 (probably 4-5 reps), repeat 3 times?

    I have been listening to podcasts about RPE scale. I am sort of struggling with it in general because it seems that RPE 8 is really close to RPE 10. Does that make any sense? Like I'm doing just fine with the weight and then I'm not and I'm done. I'm usually calling this on form breakdown rather than actually dropping something. I'm guessing this is just a need for additional technique practice and experience?
  • _benjammin
    _benjammin Posts: 1,224 Member
    ^"RPE ... practice and experience. "
    Yes. I've been trying to get the hang of an auto regulated RPE training method for 2 years.
    And I'd say yes to your 50lb then 75lb chins. That approach is similar to drop sets (1 top weight working set and then reduce weight for subsequent working sets). I'm not that familiar with the Strong Curves routine but can't imagine why adding a set or 2 of chins at the end of a routine on a second day of the week would be detrimental.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »
    ryry_ wrote: »
    Do you remember this thread? Life probably got busy as it always does but I was still curious your thoughts on the subject if you have time. you can reply here since if you like since that thread is no longer active.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10473331/obesity-are-you-just-lazy-and-dumb#latest

    Hey dude, thank you so much for the reminder. I just completely forgot about this.

    I'll try to reply to this soon.

    Thanks for the response.
  • samhennings
    samhennings Posts: 443 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »
    nossmf wrote: »
    Question re: protein powder shakes. I've tried using powders to make shakes, but have had usually mixed (read: unfavorable) results, specifically with the powder not getting completely mixed into the water/milk. Lumpy protein shakes are virtually undrinkable.

    The best solution would be use a blender, but my goal for them would be at work during 12-hr shifts. I've also tried those shake-bottles with the little metal wire ball inside, which works better than stirring with a spoon but is still incomplete mixing in my experience.

    Am I doing something basic wrong, like adding powder before liquid? Am I using the wrong brand? (I don't have any powder at the house at the moment, I've been using pre-mixed ready-to-drink shakes, which are fabulous but you pay through the nose.) Or do I just need to suck it up and get used to this fact-of-life with protein shakes?

    Likely brand I would guess.

    I don't get much clumping with ON brand, and even less with PEScience

    I use MyProtein with the shaker/beaker that has the metal springball thing in, and never have any trouble at all.

    Would suggest its brand.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    on the protein-clump thing, ime if lumps have a lot of liquid to hide in then they will hide. so you gotta trap them. i usually deal with clumpy stuff of any description by starting out with just a little liquid at first. shake the hell out of that to turn it into a kind of mud, then dilute the mud. also, fwiw the whey isolate powder i bought from canadian protein recently does not seem to have lumping issues at all and isn't too far off the six star kind of flavour. little less aggressive with both the sweetness and flavour, at least in the vanilla version.

    um. so i'm in here because i have a bbb-ish question myself. i'm doing basic wendler 3 days a week, but i alternate which pair of lifts i double up on so as to spread my trainer's eyeballs across all four of them. the downside is i'm not getting consistent day intervals between workouts with any lift, and i've been feeling that as a problem.

    so recently i've started adding a hypertrophy/remember-how day at the 'start' of the week. i'll take whatever i'm going to do for real on friday, and i'll spend saturday doing 5x10 at low weights for them both. it comes out as a kind of half-assed bbb thing, since each lift only gets bi-weekly exposure.

    i like it anyway just for the way that it shortens the intervals. but i'm curious whether there's likely to be any straight-strength value in it. or even whether the opposite might be true. so far it seems like doing 50 reps at 60% of my training max has gotten me very good at lifting 60% of my training max, but i'm not sure if it's doing too much for my 80 and 90 percents. thoughts? it's a fairly new experiment so i don't want to start dicking around with it after only six weeks, but i am curious.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    Sounds like you're doing well.

    You could keep going, or you could also incorporate the new band in conjunction with the old one.

    So just for example if the new band allows you to do 3x2 you could do something like this (just one example and I'll assume it's a 50lb band but I'm just guessing and this is just one example)

    Day 1: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 8 (leave 2 reps in the tank on all sets)
    Day 2: 50lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)
    Day 3: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)

    Depending on how many reps you get on day 2, you may need to increase sets by 1 set/week.

    This would be one way to autoregulate volume to a degree (number of reps is dictated by relative fatigue on a per set basis) and see if volume goes up over time.

    Thanks! This is really helpful!

    A couple more things though?

    I currently only do chin ups once a week, following Strong Curves and that's what it calls for. And like I said chin ups are not a huge goal of mine right now. So would/could you do something like 50 lb band, 1 set RPE 10 (probably only 1-2 reps), then finish with 75 lb band at RPE 8 (probably 4-5 reps), repeat 3 times?

    I have been listening to podcasts about RPE scale. I am sort of struggling with it in general because it seems that RPE 8 is really close to RPE 10. Does that make any sense? Like I'm doing just fine with the weight and then I'm not and I'm done. I'm usually calling this on form breakdown rather than actually dropping something. I'm guessing this is just a need for additional technique practice and experience?

    Have you ever added negatives once the assisted has reached max rep?

    That eccentric motion of slow controlled drop can do wonders, you could even do that using the lightest band so body is getting the most benefit, or no band.
  • AigreDoux
    AigreDoux Posts: 594 Member
    heybales wrote: »

    Have you ever added negatives once the assisted has reached max rep?

    That eccentric motion of slow controlled drop can do wonders, you could even do that using the lightest band so body is getting the most benefit, or no band.

    No, I've never done that. I could definitely give it a try with or without the band. I guess I was just never sure whether it is better to do a negative with a lighter/no band, or a band assisted one!
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »
    Sounds like you're doing well.

    You could keep going, or you could also incorporate the new band in conjunction with the old one.

    So just for example if the new band allows you to do 3x2 you could do something like this (just one example and I'll assume it's a 50lb band but I'm just guessing and this is just one example)

    Day 1: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 8 (leave 2 reps in the tank on all sets)
    Day 2: 50lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)
    Day 3: 75lb band, 3 sets at RPE 9 (leave 1 rep in the tank on all sets)

    Depending on how many reps you get on day 2, you may need to increase sets by 1 set/week.

    This would be one way to autoregulate volume to a degree (number of reps is dictated by relative fatigue on a per set basis) and see if volume goes up over time.

    Thanks! This is really helpful!

    A couple more things though?

    I currently only do chin ups once a week, following Strong Curves and that's what it calls for. And like I said chin ups are not a huge goal of mine right now. So would/could you do something like 50 lb band, 1 set RPE 10 (probably only 1-2 reps), then finish with 75 lb band at RPE 8 (probably 4-5 reps), repeat 3 times?

    I have been listening to podcasts about RPE scale. I am sort of struggling with it in general because it seems that RPE 8 is really close to RPE 10. Does that make any sense? Like I'm doing just fine with the weight and then I'm not and I'm done. I'm usually calling this on form breakdown rather than actually dropping something. I'm guessing this is just a need for additional technique practice and experience?

    1) You could start with the 50lb band and drop to the 75lb band but I wouldn't go to RPE 10 on the 50 or you're going to struggle to build volume. Now, if you can do the 50lb band and get a couple of reps while still leaving 1-2 in the tank I would give that a shot like you describe.

    2) I would just add in another day of chin ups using the 75lb band and just doing this will probably be enough to drive progress since your total volume will go up a lot.

    3) using RPE takes practice and it's a skill like anything. One thing you can do for the chin up specifically is to take your final set to complete failure and use it as a gauge for RPE. So for example while you are doing the chin ups you can sort of 'rate' in your head where you're at for RPE, and keep going until you fail and use that as a reference point. I'd only do this on your final set and I wouldn't do this frequently, just as an RPE reference.

    For other lifts the method I tend to use with clients is to have them sumbit a video at a given intensity so I can view bar speed/etc and I have them rate the RPE and I talk them through it.

    RPE 8 means you have 2 repetitions left in reserve. RPE 10 means you've hit an absolute max.
  • AigreDoux
    AigreDoux Posts: 594 Member
    Thanks, Sidesteel!

    What if I can only do 1 or 2 reps with the 50 lb band when it comes in? Then just stick with the 75 lb band until I can do more reps? Or do negatives as Heybales suggested?

    Would you do chin ups in addition to the exercises already laid out in SC, or instead of? Or on an alternate day? Ex: Workout A is dumbbell rows, Workout B is chin ups, Workout C is inverted (TRX) rows. Do I substitute out one of the rows or just add chin ups to the end? Or just add chin ups to one of my cardio days (home gym so no big deal to do this)?

    I maybe have reached the point of overanalysis on this. I may just order the band and see how it works out :)
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    Thanks, Sidesteel!

    What if I can only do 1 or 2 reps with the 50 lb band when it comes in? Then just stick with the 75 lb band until I can do more reps? Or do negatives as Heybales suggested?

    Would you do chin ups in addition to the exercises already laid out in SC, or instead of? Or on an alternate day? Ex: Workout A is dumbbell rows, Workout B is chin ups, Workout C is inverted (TRX) rows. Do I substitute out one of the rows or just add chin ups to the end? Or just add chin ups to one of my cardio days (home gym so no big deal to do this)?

    I maybe have reached the point of overanalysis on this. I may just order the band and see how it works out :)

    1) You could do added eccentrics and you may even want to try them with less assistance. Typically with my clients who want to progress with chin ups I incorporate a lot of eccentrics (and I do mean a lot) in addition to some vertical pulling work. Since you have bands you should be able to just use those however I don't see a problem in using eccentrics in addition to it if you want to.

    Eccentrics do cause a fair amount of soreness and so I think I'd PREFER to see you just try to build volume longer with the 75lb band especially since you said you're still making progress there -- adding the additional day will likely help a lot provided you recover adequately.

    I would do them on day C before the TRX row provided you have time.
  • AigreDoux
    AigreDoux Posts: 594 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »

    1) You could do added eccentrics and you may even want to try them with less assistance. Typically with my clients who want to progress with chin ups I incorporate a lot of eccentrics (and I do mean a lot) in addition to some vertical pulling work. Since you have bands you should be able to just use those however I don't see a problem in using eccentrics in addition to it if you want to.

    Eccentrics do cause a fair amount of soreness and so I think I'd PREFER to see you just try to build volume longer with the 75lb band especially since you said you're still making progress there -- adding the additional day will likely help a lot provided you recover adequately.

    I would do them on day C before the TRX row provided you have time.

    I usually superset the TRX row with hip thrusts as per the program. I could add them into rotation.

    I assume this concept could translate over to other bodyweight exercises...say 3 pushups off the floor is RPE10, so I would do 1 from the floor then 6-8 from the bench (RPE8-9), right?

    Sorry to be a PITA, but one more tiny question? So if I am doing an exercise, say squats, and I notice that my form breaks down at a certain point. Say my knees start to cave after I do 5 reps at 100 lbs. So that is RPE 10, right? But I have noticed that if I take a small mini pause in the set, say I just stand with the bar on my back for 5 seconds, or sometimes rerack the bar for 10 seconds then pick it back up, I can do 5 more reps with good form before I start feeling like the knees will cave again. I think the benefit I get from this pause is both mental and physical.

    This is is one of the reasons I get confused on the RPE scale. Because those 10 reps feel challenging but not "oh my god I am going to die" hard, which is my assumption about what RPE 10 should feel like. So if 5 reps of that is RPE 10, then I should only be doing 3 reps in a program that calls for RPE 8, and that seems like not a lot of work compared to what I can do? This also confuses me when using 1RM calculators, cause is that type of set a 5RM or a 10RM? Am I losing any benefit from doing a mini pause, beyond what I can add in increased volume? This happens to me in a lot of exercises, not just squats. Deadlifts and squats are particularly vexing though.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    AigreDoux wrote: »
    SideSteel wrote: »

    1) You could do added eccentrics and you may even want to try them with less assistance. Typically with my clients who want to progress with chin ups I incorporate a lot of eccentrics (and I do mean a lot) in addition to some vertical pulling work. Since you have bands you should be able to just use those however I don't see a problem in using eccentrics in addition to it if you want to.

    Eccentrics do cause a fair amount of soreness and so I think I'd PREFER to see you just try to build volume longer with the 75lb band especially since you said you're still making progress there -- adding the additional day will likely help a lot provided you recover adequately.

    I would do them on day C before the TRX row provided you have time.

    I usually superset the TRX row with hip thrusts as per the program. I could add them into rotation.

    I assume this concept could translate over to other bodyweight exercises...say 3 pushups off the floor is RPE10, so I would do 1 from the floor then 6-8 from the bench (RPE8-9), right?

    Sorry to be a PITA, but one more tiny question? So if I am doing an exercise, say squats, and I notice that my form breaks down at a certain point. Say my knees start to cave after I do 5 reps at 100 lbs. So that is RPE 10, right? But I have noticed that if I take a small mini pause in the set, say I just stand with the bar on my back for 5 seconds, or sometimes rerack the bar for 10 seconds then pick it back up, I can do 5 more reps with good form before I start feeling like the knees will cave again. I think the benefit I get from this pause is both mental and physical.

    This is is one of the reasons I get confused on the RPE scale. Because those 10 reps feel challenging but not "oh my god I am going to die" hard, which is my assumption about what RPE 10 should feel like. So if 5 reps of that is RPE 10, then I should only be doing 3 reps in a program that calls for RPE 8, and that seems like not a lot of work compared to what I can do? This also confuses me when using 1RM calculators, cause is that type of set a 5RM or a 10RM? Am I losing any benefit from doing a mini pause, beyond what I can add in increased volume? This happens to me in a lot of exercises, not just squats. Deadlifts and squats are particularly vexing though.

    First of all I don't mind the questions, that's what this thread is for =)

    I wouldn't add eccentrics in to your TRX/hip thrust superset, I would do the eccentrics prior to this since the eccentrics will be quite a bit more challenging than the TRX row and so doing multiple sets of this where you're supersetting all 3 might reduce the volume of eccentrics you're able to do.

    Regarding your push-up idea, yes that could work.

    Regarding the RPE scale that's a really great question and I think the application of that scale depends a bit on context. Video incoming on this topic.
  • AigreDoux
    AigreDoux Posts: 594 Member
    Wow, thanks! That's very helpful! I will try to take some videos soon and post to the form check thread.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,363 MFP Moderator
    What is your opinion, if you have any at all, on calorie/carb cycling to support a recomp? Pretty much high carb (1.5 to 2g per lb of bw)higher calorie on lifting days and low carb (~.8g per lb of bw or 120g)/lower calorie on non lifting days. So 10% below tdee on high and 20 or 25% below tdee on low days. Training is Wendler 531 with accesories and HIIT on non lifting days. I do 3 large meals and a pre workout protien shake in general too.

  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    What is your opinion, if you have any at all, on calorie/carb cycling to support a recomp? Pretty much high carb (1.5 to 2g per lb of bw)higher calorie on lifting days and low carb (~.8g per lb of bw or 120g)/lower calorie on non lifting days. So 10% below tdee on high and 20 or 25% below tdee on low days. Training is Wendler 531 with accesories and HIIT on non lifting days. I do 3 large meals and a pre workout protien shake in general too.

    I think adherence and gym performance should be maximized first, and if those things are in place and you have room to take in a slightly larger intake on training days and a slightly lower intake on rest days it's at least theoretically sound.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
    I don't know if you remember but I have forever been having bench issues due to torn labrum in left shoulder. I also recently had an AC joint separation in my right shoulder. Moving hands closer together actually seems to aggravate shoulder more and give me bad wrist pain.

    Recently after coming back from AC thing, I started to do the equivalent ROM of floor presses. I'm not actually on the floor but I stop at that equivalent where my arms are parallel to the ground. I feel no shoulder or wrist discomfort and still 'feel' a pretty good contraction in my chest.

    What am i losing if I adopt this going forward (no interest in competing) and what do I need to be cognizant of?