A+ video - Phinney, "Recent Developments in LCHF and Nutritional Ketosis"
RalfLott
Posts: 5,036 Member
https://youtu.be/r8uSv6OgHJE11
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Thanks for sharing.
::flowerforyou::1 -
One of his most endearing qualities is the humility reflected in his routine acknowledgement that things he thinks are right today he might find wrong tomorrow.
"I view my own data with skepticism."
And this mantra, which very few of us appear to share both in theory and practice:
"Let's think physiologically, not ideologically" (after remarking on Loren Cordain's warning to him that eating >50% fat would be "dangerous").4 -
Great video!
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I looked on Youtube but didn't see Part 2?0
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Haven't seen it yet....
Part 2 may have a discussion of IF. Should be interesting.
I believe his prior comments on IF suggest that he doesn't believe the science to date has demonstrated that fasting brings a health benefit that does not reduce lean body mass or create electrolyte deficiencies.0 -
Thanks.0
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Thank you, I have just x-posted a link on www.ketogenicforums.com too. 1
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Thank you, I have just x-posted a link on www.ketogenicforums.com too.
Phinney's presentation posted by Low Carb Down Under last November is great, too.
Here's the videos page from LCDA's website - lots of other interesting vids, in addition to Phinney's:
https://lowcarbdownunder.com.au/videos/
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Thank you, I have just x-posted a link on www.ketogenicforums.com too.
I'm really liking ketogenic forums. It's weird though. I feel like a "new kid" not having the familiarity with the people there that I do here. But it's nice because there are so many well versed participants and I've seen some interesting conversations.1 -
Yeah, it is a different vibe. But good information. And 2 kewl dudes! love that podcast.0
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Looked a bit at the LCDA too, and looked for part 2 Phinney (no luck), then fell down a rabbit hole (youtube is like that
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got stuck watching BBC's Fat Doctor Series 1 Episode 1 (someone here put me on to that grrr lol) and thought, geez no wonder you needed gastric surgery - 20 pints of beer every time you met your mates for dart night????3 -
canadjineh wrote: »Looked a bit at the LCDA too, and looked for part 2 Phinney (no luck), then fell down a rabbit hole (youtube is like that )
got stuck watching BBC's Fat Doctor Series 1 Episode 1 (someone here put me on to that grrr lol) and thought, geez no wonder you needed gastric surgery - 20 pints of beer every time you met your mates for dart night????
Is 20 pints too much or not enough? Dart night does require beer.
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cstehansen wrote: »canadjineh wrote: »Looked a bit at the LCDA too, and looked for part 2 Phinney (no luck), then fell down a rabbit hole (youtube is like that )
got stuck watching BBC's Fat Doctor Series 1 Episode 1 (someone here put me on to that grrr lol) and thought, geez no wonder you needed gastric surgery - 20 pints of beer every time you met your mates for dart night????
Is 20 pints too much or not enough? Dart night does require beer.
Interestingly, there's a correlation between high alcohol consumption and lower weight among women, while it's the complete opposite for men. The ladies tend to not eat when hitting the sauce, and men tend to shovel even more crap than usual in their faces.0 -
When will we ever catch up? Evolution is cruel.2
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canadjineh wrote: »got stuck watching BBC's Fat Doctor Series 1 Episode 1 (someone here put me on to that grrr lol) and thought, geez no wonder you needed gastric surgery - 20 pints of beer every time you met your mates for dart night????
Lol that was ME!
ya! 1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Interestingly, there's a correlation between high alcohol consumption and lower weight among women, while it's the complete opposite for men. The ladies tend to not eat when hitting the sauce, and men tend to shovel even more crap than usual in their faces.
hmmmm... tequila for dinner... 2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Interestingly, there's a correlation between high alcohol consumption and lower weight among women, while it's the complete opposite for men. The ladies tend to not eat when hitting the sauce, and men tend to shovel even more crap than usual in their faces.
hmmmm... tequila for dinner...
My tequila radar went off...2 -
No, Goose for dinner here, lol (Grey kind)3
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Here's part 2 - 90 minutes of fascinating tips and insights (from electrolytes & athletic performance to the effect of ketones on gut health & longevity to the effect of fasting on muscle loss & resting metabolism, and plenty more). .
https://youtu.be/Qk0U006YZ2w 4 -
Holy shinto that UC Davis mouse study is amazing! I'll be looking forward to when it's published.
Good explanation of supplementing salt.
re: intermittent fasting, the question of an extra long fast seemed to be a bit of a red herring. Fasts that long are just straight up "fasting" not *intermittent* fasting, which is why the IF term exists in the first place. Glad he said he had zero issue with fasts <48hrs, since that is the majority of IF protocols. And also since his main concern was protein & LBM loss, that dovetails well with Lyle McDonald's PSMF protocols we brought up in another thread.6 -
Holy shinto that UC Davis mouse study is amazing! I'll be looking forward to when it's published.
Good explanation of supplementing salt.
re: intermittent fasting, the question of an extra long fast seemed to be a bit of a red herring. Fasts that long are just straight up "fasting" not *intermittent* fasting, which is why the IF term exists in the first place. Glad he said he had zero issue with fasts <48hrs, since that is the majority of IF protocols. And also since his main concern was protein & LBM loss, that dovetails well with Lyle McDonald's PSMF protocols we brought up in another thread.
I'm very based on this issue. So there's that. I have the utmost respect for Dr Phinney, but on this issue I find his arguments a bit peculiar He talks about "lean tissue loss" without specifically pointing out that the studies he refer to are
a) very long term starvation studies. Not to mention using emotionally laden examples of prisoners from war and an anorexic pop star. He as a researcher should know, he shouldn't jump to conclusions using data from starvation as an argument vs. fasting,
b) does not specify that lean tissue also includes blood (water weight) inside muscles and organs. which could be a bit misleading because loss of muscle fibers and other lean tissue is NOT the same.
this link popped up on ketogains this week:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-5-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-5-and-6-skinfolds-and-dual-energy-x-ray-absorptiometry-dexa/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
It explains why measuring changes in body composition is VERY INACCURATE.
So how do science actually measure pure muscle fiber loss, exactly?
c) we are all catabolic after PP. The protein turnover is variable, ie exercise and why people who are physically active can/need more protein. We are ALSO shedding hair and skin all day. This is also part of the protein turnover. Plus water weight can vary quite some lbs during a day...I wouldn't confuse any of that with muscle fiber loss. Now the rhetoric: You weigh yourself in the morning, then you drink 20oz of water. Now, you have "gained" 20 oz of Lean BodyMass (LBM) ... but have ya gained 20 oz of muscle fiber? Ofc, not. You've gained water weight which is a part of LBM with current technology.
d) and what about gastric bypass then? It's a surgically enforced starvation. If it was so wasting in muscle fibers as Dr. Phinney tends to let us believe these days, I don't understand how gastric bypass patients don't wane away much sooner. Did he say a quarter pounder a day of LBM loss?
e) He didn't mention that GH naturally increases during sleep, also increases after about 18 hrs of not eating (I don't remember exactly how many hrs)...possibly to counter muscle fiber loss. Actually, when you look at the processes that happen during sleep, they're eerily similar to the same stuff as when fasting, such as: cell regeneration and repair. Aging is after all the body's incapability to self heal in same tempo as cell damage.
There are plenty of highly respected researches nowadays in the field of fasting and autophagy : Mark Mattson and Longo and the Nobel Laureate Ohsumi. It turns out that cell repair does NOT occur with too much energy surplus. l'm currently convinced autophagy IS the fountain of youth,
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I'm in the same camp, @Foamroller. Interested in the part glycation and telomere shortening have in aging... fasting certainly lessens glycation.2
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@Foamroller you may have seen it but there is an interesting discussion on fasting, autophagy and fat supplementation on ketogenic forums.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/fasting-autophagy-and-fat-supplementation/3596/45
Others may find it helpful.
Some things on the forum are only viewable at certain levels of member participation. I don't know if this is viewable to anyone or not so if you can't see it, that's why.
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The sodium study that he talks about starting around min 15 of part two is crazy. I went and registered for access on the New England Journal of Medicine website and downloaded that study. BTW, it was free. It asks about profession and such and was fine with me selecting "other" and not something that was medical.
Anyway, there are more charts on there that completely contradict everything the "experts" have ever told us about sodium. The info on potassium is pretty crazy too.
BRING ON THE BROTH WITH EXTRA SALT!!!!!!!!5 -
csthansen, I read the study too... I've always been a straight up salt eater (large crystals ground into my hand whenever I feel like a crunchy mouthful, lol) because I think it tastes good, but the only food I ever salt is avocado as I don't want to unbalance the taste of my food with too much salt flavour. Weird I know. Everyone has always been goggle-eyed when I eat the salt in front of them but of course BP has always been perfect. My Doc just laughs. 3
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canadjineh wrote: »csthansen, I read the study too... I've always been a straight up salt eater (large crystals ground into my hand whenever I feel like a crunchy mouthful, lol) because I think it tastes good, but the only food I ever salt is avocado as I don't want to unbalance the taste of my food with too much salt flavour. Weird I know. Everyone has always been goggle-eyed when I eat the salt in front of them but of course BP has always been perfect. My Doc just laughs.
Suddenly, I just had memories of being a kid when my mom made homemade ice cream and I would steal the rock salt and just eat it straight. Ice cream is the only sweet/desert I ever really liked, but the rock salt was just as good. Now I'm thinking maybe I should just go by some. hmmm....0 -
cstehanson can you give the gist of what the article said about potassium?0
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cstehanson can you give the gist of what the article said about potassium?
I think the easiest thing is to just paste a shot of this section which shows that the more the better up to the >3g per day regardless of any other health marker with almost no exceptions.
The one weird thing is that the 2-2.5g group does better than the 2.5-3g for a couple of the groups. So basically, it looks like getting over 3g is best, but if you can't get there, then stay in the 2-2.5g range.
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The sodium discussion was interesting too - a 3-gram increase from the generally-recommended level of 5g/day to 8g is less dangerous than a 3-gram decrease to 2g (except for people with certain types of hypertension).2
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The sodium discussion was interesting too - a 3-gram increase from the generally-recommended level of 5g/day to 8g is less dangerous than a 3-gram decrease to 2g (except for people with certain types of hypertension).
No doubt! This is the number 1 cause of most low carb issues.
Headaches, constipation, dizzy, dry skin, retaining water... so many more!
Get some salt folks!2
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