A1c after 3 months keto
asgentr
Posts: 228 Member
In October I had an A1c of 5.7, which surprised me. I started keto and three months later my A1c is 5.4, which is normal by standard health guidelines. However, it seems high to me after being keto for the period the test covers. Am I wrong to think this? I thought I might transition from keto to low carb at some point, but now I'm wondering if I need to stay keto to keep diabetes at bay.
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First, you have to understand that the amount of change will not be as much if it is not really high to begin with. For instance another person recently had a drop from over 12 to 6.9.
Yours obviously can't drop 6 points. Most people whose bodies start moving toward diabetes generally don't ever get down below 5. Some will, and given yours never got that high, you might be one of those.
Give this, you made it almost halfway to that mark of 5 in ONLY 3 months. Also, there is a margin of error for the testing of 0.5, so it is always good to wait until you have 3 in a row to make sure the trend is correct. Theoretically, you could have been at 6.2 the first time and 4.9 now. This is another reason having 3+ readings is important because trends are more reliable than single readings.8 -
That is a remarkable number for only a short period of keto!
I don't see anything wrong with people continuing keto for as long as they live, and I especially think diabetics may find they ought to. I am also a T2D. I haven't been this healthy since I was a teen.5 -
@asgentr & @2t9nty - I just listened to last week's podcast of KetoTalk with Jimmy and the Doc yesterday which I think had one thing that was applicable to you.
Dr. Naly was talking about how many people who are insulin resistant (IR) take 18-20 months of keto for their bodies to fully recover enough to get A1c below 5.6 or 5.7. They will see significant gains right away when their starting point was high, but frustration may set it because they hit that plateau above where they want their A1c to be for a while.
In the big scheme of things, 18-20 months is not a long time especially given most of us with elevated A1c took decades to reach that point.
For @asgentr, you did much better than most of us by starting well before you were as damaged, so perhaps it won't take as long for you, but I thought it still might be relevant for you to hear this.
As for @2t9nty, you have had amazing gains (or losses) already. I thought this might be good information to pass along to you so you don't get discouraged if your numbers seem to level off for a bit at a level higher than you would like as that is normal before getting further reductions.
@RalfLott6 -
cstehansen wrote: »
I am pretty determined. I am not perfect with the diet - hit 45 net carbs today, but there is a men's breakfast on Friday, and hash browns on Friday is my only splurge all week really. I seem to be mostly in a holding pattern right now with glucose levels averaging about 130 this week. Fasting is consistently the highest of the day. I know some weight loss will help things, but these things come at their own pace. If I am creating a calorie deficit and keeping carbs low, I am convinced that the numbers will improve.
Right now the lancing device that came with the OneTouch Ultramini seems to be getting tired. I have it on 7 and have to press it into my finger pretty hard to get any blood out. That is my greatest frustration right now I guess.
I appreciate the kind words.
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If you pinch your target finger against your thumb and aim for the side of your finger by the corner of your nail, that might be slightly easier.
As for hash browns ... can you conceptualize them like booze to someone who quit drinking
?
And, who knows you might get some other people reflecting on their diets!0 -
If you pinch your target finger against your thumb and aim for the side of your finger by the corner of your nail, that might be slightly easier.
As for hash browns ... can you conceptualize them like booze to someone who quit drinking ?
And, who knows you might get some other people reflecting on their diets!
I probably need to give up the hash browns. A challenge at the men's breakfast is that I have traditionally not eaten meat on Fridays except in the "white" seasons on the church calendar - so I am left with a cheese omelette in ordinary time or Lent/Advent.
As one of those things I have noticed since starting this new way o' eating is that I often have GI distress when I get back to the office. That may be a reaction to the carbs. I also find myself ravenously hungry in the morning before my second Friday service, and I keep peanuts in the office to stave off the munchies and reduce temptation. This is probably related to the carbs as well.
At home it is easier. I can have some meat with breakfast the rest of the week, and sometimes I have a half apple or leftover veggies from the night before.
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If you pinch your target finger against your thumb and aim for the side of your finger by the corner of your nail, that might be slightly easier.
As for hash browns ... can you conceptualize them like booze to someone who quit drinking ?
And, who knows you might get some other people reflecting on their diets!
I probably need to give up the hash browns. A challenge at the men's breakfast is that I have traditionally not eaten meat on Fridays except in the "white" seasons on the church calendar - so I am left with a cheese omelette in ordinary time or Lent/Advent.
As one of those things I have noticed since starting this new way o' eating is that I often have GI distress when I get back to the office. That may be a reaction to the carbs. I also find myself ravenously hungry in the morning before my second Friday service, and I keep peanuts in the office to stave off the munchies and reduce temptation. This is probably related to the carbs as well.
At home it is easier. I can have some meat with breakfast the rest of the week, and sometimes I have a half apple or leftover veggies from the night before.
I have no doubt you'll figure it out!
One of the countless great tips I picked up from a veteran here was to invest in macadamia nuts (best price at Costco). They are high in calories and fat, so you can put a real dent in your hunger with just a few of them (and not throw your macros off).
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In October I had an A1c of 5.7, which surprised me. I started keto and three months later my A1c is 5.4, which is normal by standard health guidelines. However, it seems high to me after being keto for the period the test covers. Am I wrong to think this? I thought I might transition from keto to low carb at some point, but now I'm wondering if I need to stay keto to keep diabetes at bay.
@asgentr that is awesome. The A1C I think is the average of the last three months glucose levels. After two years on Keto my A1C reading was 5.1 but that was the first time I had that test.0 -
I have no doubt you'll figure it out!
One of the countless great tips I picked up from a veteran here was to invest in macadamia nuts (best price at Costco). They are high in calories and fat, so you can put a real dent in your hunger with just a few of them (and not throw your macros off).
Maybe I will ask for the cheese omelette with some salsa and sour cream next week.
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Mmmmmmm.......
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I probably need to give up the hash browns. A challenge at the men's breakfast is that I have traditionally not eaten meat on Fridays except in the "white" seasons on the church calendar - so I am left with a cheese omelette in ordinary time or Lent/Advent.
Before going to lchf I also did meatless Fridays all year (excluding feast days/ seasons). But as vegetarian lchf is really hard to do, remember in America you can do some other penance/work of mercy outside of Lent. Or you could do a type of fast on Fridays, have a cup of coffee at your breakfast maybe with some heavy cream or butter, either stick with only liquids all day, or eat only 1 or 2 meals later when you can control the food more.0 -
I fluctuate between 5.4-5.6% fairly normally in going between Low-carb & full blown keto...I would not worry about T2DM development when transitioning between the 2 diets; you are no where close to 6.5%. There are not any known benefits to lowering HbA1C to that low of an extent (less than 5%) & am very doubtful one could fall below 5% even on zero carbohydrate.1
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Thank you for the insightful comments. I know 5.4 isn't a high number, but I have severe diabetes in my family. My mother died at 57 from a heart attack caused by diabetes and my grandmother had both legs amputated. I'm a late-in-life Mom myself, so in light of this history I am extra motivated to stay healthy (who isn't, right?). I recall reading somewhere that one of the LCHF experts recommends staying below 5.4 to avoid the ill effects of too much insulin/glucose (might have been Jason Fung?). I will report back if I find it.0
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If you pinch your target finger against your thumb and aim for the side of your finger by the corner of your nail, that might be slightly easier.
As for hash browns ... can you conceptualize them like booze to someone who quit drinking ?
And, who knows you might get some other people reflecting on their diets!
I probably need to give up the hash browns. A challenge at the men's breakfast is that I have traditionally not eaten meat on Fridays except in the "white" seasons on the church calendar - so I am left with a cheese omelette in ordinary time or Lent/Advent.
As one of those things I have noticed since starting this new way o' eating is that I often have GI distress when I get back to the office. That may be a reaction to the carbs. I also find myself ravenously hungry in the morning before my second Friday service, and I keep peanuts in the office to stave off the munchies and reduce temptation. This is probably related to the carbs as well.
At home it is easier. I can have some meat with breakfast the rest of the week, and sometimes I have a half apple or leftover veggies from the night before.
Peanuts are not really nuts, they are legumes, which can cause you to be musical like anything else in that family.
Macadamia nuts, pecans, or walnuts might give you a better result and they are heart healthy too.0 -
retirehappy wrote: »
Peanuts are not really nuts, they are legumes, which can cause you to be musical like anything else in that family.
Macadamia nuts, pecans, or walnuts might give you a better result and they are heart healthy too.
The peanuts are cheap, and that is a plus. They have 1 net carb per oz. My personal reaction to metformin has involved gas for the most part, and the "effect" has calmed down a little. The peanuts don't seem to make it any worse. It might not hurt to try something else just to see...
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Thank you for the insightful comments. I know 5.4 isn't a high number, but I have severe diabetes in my family. My mother died at 57 from a heart attack caused by diabetes and my grandmother had both legs amputated. I'm a late-in-life Mom myself, so in light of this history I am extra motivated to stay healthy (who isn't, right?). I recall reading somewhere that one of the LCHF experts recommends staying below 5.4 to avoid the ill effects of too much insulin/glucose (might have been Jason Fung?). I will report back if I find it.
@asgentr with the link is from a type 1 site it does cover A1C readings implications well. While I am pleased to have a 5.1 I am shooting for a 4.8 but not going to loose sleep over the matter.
diabetestone.com/blog-2/category/what-are-the-benefits-of-lowering-hba1c
The Legacy Effect discussion below I found to be interesting. It is a professional paper so I had to use Google a few times but the meat in the article was worth it.
jaoa.org/article.aspx?
articleid=2093962
I started to not post the below because if one does not read to the end might think a higher A1C might be better for true diabetics.
https://diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/higher-hba1c-healthier/2 -
cstehansen wrote: »
Right now the lancing device that came with the OneTouch Ultramini seems to be getting tired. I have it on 7 and have to press it into my finger pretty hard to get any blood out. That is my greatest frustration right now I guess.
I appreciate the kind words.
When did you change the lancet last? There's a joke among T1D's that you change your lancet on your birthday. Or when you replace the batteries in a smoke detector and other random things that you don't do very often. Lol
In reality, it's supposed to be changed for each use but NOBODY does that!
They do get dull.2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
When did you change the lancet last? There's a joke among T1D's that you change your lancet on your birthday. Or when you replace the batteries in a smoke detector and other random things that you don't do very often. Lol
In reality, it's supposed to be changed for each use but NOBODY does that!
They do get dull.
I change the lancet with each new container of strips. When I first started having problems I changed it and then after one use it would not work at all - it seemed to have shortened or pushed into the base. With some firm pressure and another lancet, it is working now. I am using the 30 ga lancets, and have some 33 ga. I may try the narrower ones. The plastic construction of the lancing device seems a little cheesy, and I am not sure it would hold up to changing it too frequently.
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I change the lancet with each new container of strips. When I first started having problems I changed it and then after one use it would not work at all - it seemed to have shortened or pushed into the base. With some firm pressure and another lancet, it is working now. I am using the 30 ga lancets, and have some 33 ga. I may try the narrower ones. The plastic construction of the lancing device seems a little cheesy, and I am not sure it would hold up to changing it too frequently.
You might want to change it more frequently. When lancing is painful, people often just stop. (My spouse is in that category - even after I got her the most pain-free lancing device around {Accuchek FastClix}.)
I'm not a concerned at all about infection - but if it is painful, or not lancing, think about changing more frequently.
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There are not any known benefits to lowering HbA1C to that low of an extent (less than 5%) & am very doubtful one could fall below 5% even on zero carbohydrate.
I know quite a few folks in the 4.x% range. My loose goal is to be around 4.7-4.9 (~88-94 average). Don't know if I'll get there - but if I do, I'll be confident I've beaten this thing. (My BG, so far today, hasn't hit 90 . . . but I'm due for another test after a large cabbage salad.
If the low A1c is the result of control - I agree there's no particular benefit. If the low A1c is the result of remission, being in remission is a pretty strong benefit!1 -
There are not any known benefits to lowering HbA1C to that low of an extent (less than 5%) & am very doubtful one could fall below 5% even on zero carbohydrate.
I know quite a few folks in the 4.x% range. My loose goal is to be around 4.7-4.9 (~88-94 average). Don't know if I'll get there - but if I do, I'll be confident I've beaten this thing. (My BG, so far today, hasn't hit 90 . . . but I'm due for another test after a large cabbage salad.
If the low A1c is the result of control - I agree there's no particular benefit. If the low A1c is the result of remission, being in remission is a pretty strong benefit!
You are already a model for beating T2D - but no harm in aiming even higher (lower)!
I believe Dr. Bernstein cited studies showing that risks for various Undesirables start to climb as soon as BG levels exceed non-diabetic levels, which would be in the 80-90 range, or A1c = 4.5 - 4.8.
Why roll the dice that any BG over nondiabetic levels will be ok, unless the control creates some other health risk?0 -
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I had fasted bg readings about 110-120 over a year ago. I then started a 20:4 IF program. I dropped 40-lbs and my fasting bg was usually about in the 90's in the mornings (after big meal in the evening) and stayed in the 70's - 80's while fasted.
I then didn't check for several months. Recently I've been taking readings (fasted in the morning) and they have been from 107-143 with most being about in the 120's. The 143 was this morning and was after I ate a couple of bowls of pudding late last night (not sugar free - I forgot I was trying to limit sugar and had them down before I even thought of it!).
Anyways, I'm concerned. I have been taking whey protein supps and get about 100g of protein in my evening meals (4-hr eating window) and usually don't have much sugar but do eat some fruit. Any thoughts? I'm cutting back on the whey and sugar to see what will happen. I'm wondering if I should cut back on fat also as I sometimes will eat fruit with cream in the evenings. I am taking acv before meals also.0 -
@blambo61 keep in mind about half of protein converts to glucose. I have to keep daily protein in the 75-90 gram range to not trigger higher glucose levels.0
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@blambo61 - my new doc suggested that the IF schedule may not be the best option for those who are no longer losing weight as it can actually start adding stress to the body. Stress can also result in higher BG readings.
I had fired my old PCP and Endo because they were stuck in the past and found this guy on Jimmy Moore's site which lists LCHF friendly doctors. He has helped me quite a bit so far. Some details on another thread I started if you are interested.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10490291/interesting-dr-follow-up-with-lchf-friendly-doc-for-t2#latest1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@blambo61 keep in mind about half of protein converts to glucose. I have to keep daily protein in the 75-90 gram range to not trigger higher glucose levels.
Thanks0 -
cstehansen wrote: »@blambo61 - my new doc suggested that the IF schedule may not be the best option for those who are no longer losing weight as it can actually start adding stress to the body. Stress can also result in higher BG readings.
I had fired my old PCP and Endo because they were stuck in the past and found this guy on Jimmy Moore's site which lists LCHF friendly doctors. He has helped me quite a bit so far. Some details on another thread I started if you are interested.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10490291/interesting-dr-follow-up-with-lchf-friendly-doc-for-t2#latest
Thanks. I'm going to monitor it closely and cut back on the whey protein a bit and keep the sugar low and see how it goes for the next couple of weeks to access the situation.0 -
I think that was a wise move. I think consistency is key. People talk about "cheat days" and such, and I just don't get it. I find eating consistently makes it easier and easier. I hate to equate it this way, but it really is like and alcoholic saying he will only drink booze on Fridays and then wondering why he struggles so hard to stay sober every Saturday.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »
I think that was a wise move. I think consistency is key. People talk about "cheat days" and such, and I just don't get it. I find eating consistently makes it easier and easier. I hate to equate it this way, but it really is like and alcoholic saying he will only drink booze on Fridays and then wondering why he struggles so hard to stay sober every Saturday.
It was not like I was eating a dozen donuts or anything, and the potatoes were just part of a standing order that was my Friday breakfast for 16 or 17 years. I still needed to do it.
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