Not liking this LCHF Diet, no sir...
JohnnyLowCarb
Posts: 418 Member
I am never hungry anymore! I used to LOVE LOVE LOVE to eat. Now I am forcing down meals, today I probably could have gone without the salad I had for lunch. I definitely wont have dinner.
So this is what you mean to be in Ketosis. My body is happy with burning the fat I currently have and has no desire to bring anything else in.
Of course some of this is tongue in cheek. I love to see my weight chart in decline. But its absolutely weird not to get hungry. Maybe this is not permanent. Thoughts?
So this is what you mean to be in Ketosis. My body is happy with burning the fat I currently have and has no desire to bring anything else in.
Of course some of this is tongue in cheek. I love to see my weight chart in decline. But its absolutely weird not to get hungry. Maybe this is not permanent. Thoughts?
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I go through food apathy phases with this WOE. I never understood people who would talk about not knowing what or not wanting to eat or not being really ready to eat anything at the particular moment. But, i do kind of understand now.4
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Welcome to your very own confusing yet exhilarating new keto reality series!
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For me it's a weekly thing. I have days where I force myself to eat 1000 calories and days where I have to stop myself at 1600-1700. Can't tie it to anything in particular in my diet, it just happens. Since my weight is still going the correct way (down), I am good with it and will deal with it if it becomes an issue.
BTW - I used to love to eat, but now I have realized that most of it was mindless snacking and gorging myself to the point of discomfort - 2 things I totally do not miss on this WOE.6 -
I wouldn't force it if you're not hungry. Hungry days will come again.5
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Yes, its an ebb and flow. This woe has taught me how to distinguish real hunger from mindless eating.4
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You will have hungrier days, but as for me I welcome the freedom from food. I love not always thinking about food and wondering when I'm going to eat next and what I'm going to eat next....
I AM IN CONTROL! Not the food!
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You will have hungrier days, but as for me I welcome the freedom from food. I love not always thinking about food and wondering when I'm going to eat next and what I'm going to eat next....
I AM IN CONTROL! Not the food!
Thats awesome! I love it. Once I get used to it i am sure I will fully adapt. People beat me up for not eating more but they dont understand.2 -
Agreed that hungry days will come again! Most of the time I eat at mealtimes out of habit and not from hunger. But every now and then, I am ravenous and I do eat more on those days.1
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@johnnylew I completely understand. I love eating. My favorite restaurants were always those that offered all you can eat - and I can eat. I am very active, so I still eat far more than most here (3200-3500 cal/day), but not nearly as much or as often as I did before.
My wife is still trying to get used to the new me. She had learned after many years to not ask "if" I was hungry, but rather how hungry I was because I was always hungry. Now, after 20+ years, she is struggling with seeing that I no longer eat breakfast and almost never eat anything after dinner.
My biggest struggle is not eating out of habit or boredom. I will sometimes have a snack in the afternoon, but I have to be careful to not eat too much or just eat it due to boredom/habit because then I am sitting having family dinner time and not hungry and trying to force down some food just to be sociable.
You should absolutely expect some days where you are super hungry. Those will almost surely come. On the flip side, those days you are just not hungry at all, don't feel like you have to eat. If you have any fat on you, which even the leanest people have some, have enough to make days without eating. Many on here fasted, either IF or full day fasts, for the first time "on accident" because they just weren't hungry.
Even if you eat the SAD, one day a week of fasting will significantly improve your health markers. You don't have to fast, but it won't hurt you and probably will help you if you do it from time to time.3 -
I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.2
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codename_steve wrote: »I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.
Check out this study before you get too concerned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
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Thats awesome! I love it. Once I get used to it i am sure I will fully adapt. People beat me up for not eating more but they dont understand.
My husband used to bug me about eating more when I first started too. He said you are going to have to eat some carbs eventually. It's just not natural.
He started on keto last week (I'm almost 3 months in) and today on the way to work we were discussing how food is completely off his mind now and that's all he used to think about, so he's starting to understand.7 -
How long did it take you all to get into ketosis? Right now I'm at about 50-60 total carbs, or 25-30 net carbs. But I'm only on my 2nd day....0
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hawilliams78 wrote: »How long did it take you all to get into ketosis? Right now I'm at about 50-60 total carbs, or 25-30 net carbs. But I'm only on my 2nd day....
@hawilliams78 I felt it start in two days (but I was on a low calorie diet and exercising for a few weeks before I went to 30g Carbs per day diet) by the 3rd to 5th day I was in Ketosis. More energy than I have ever had, not hungry and was a struggle to get to my calorie intake goal. I have since scrapped trying to meet my calorie intake.1 -
Isn't it liberating to not be controlled by food and hunger!?!hawilliams78 wrote: »How long did it take you all to get into ketosis? Right now I'm at about 50-60 total carbs, or 25-30 net carbs. But I'm only on my 2nd day....
I tested at 0.7 for blood ketones by the end of my first 24 hours. I had a positive urine ketone test by then as well. I cut to 20g total carbs from day 1. I also don't think I was insulin resistant as far as I know so I'm sure that helped.2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Isn't it liberating to not be controlled by food and hunger!?!hawilliams78 wrote: »How long did it take you all to get into ketosis? Right now I'm at about 50-60 total carbs, or 25-30 net carbs. But I'm only on my 2nd day....
I tested at 0.7 for blood ketones by the end of my first 24 hours. I had a positive urine ketone test by then as well. I cut to 20g total carbs from day 1. I also don't think I was insulin resistant as far as I know so I'm sure that helped.
@Sunny_Bunny_ Thank YOU! I am1 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ learning alot from you.1
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I believe Phinney and Volek say it can take up to 6 weeks to be fully fat adapted. You can be in ketosis before then, but it takes a bit longer for your body to default to burning fat (ketones) preferentially over glucose.
@johnnylew - I know you spend some time on the treadmill. When you cross that threshold, you will know it, or at least I did. Endurance was no longer an issue. It felt like I could just keep going and going and going. This study by Jeff Volek explains this:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
You will also notice a difference by having a bit of sodium 30 minutes or so before hand followed by 8-12 oz of water right before you start. Blood volume increases when you exercise. The sodium helps you to retain more water so when it pulls it from the cells throughout your body, it doesn't have the same negative effect. Steven Phinney recommends 1,000 mg of sodium for the high endurance athletes. For us middle aged men who are only doing a 5-10km and not ultramarathons, we can probably do less. I personally started doing about a quarter of that recently, and it seemed to help.3 -
cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.
Check out this study before you get too concerned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Thanks for the reference. What I gathered from it is that I shouldn't be worried about lack of carbs effecting my performance. But what about lack of calories? Does fat-adaptation mean that muscle cannibalism isn't an issue if I'm not getting enough overall fuel? (If this is thread-derailing I can start a new one to discuss this) 1 -
codename_steve wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »
Thanks for the reference. What I gathered from it is that I shouldn't be worried about lack of carbs effecting my performance. But what about lack of calories? Does fat-adaptation mean that muscle cannibalism isn't an issue if I'm not getting enough overall fuel? (If this is thread-derailing I can start a new one to discuss this)
From what I understand your body will only protein (ie muscle) for energy if you are very sick, most of us have enough stored fat that the body will l pull from.0 -
codename_steve wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.
Check out this study before you get too concerned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Thanks for the reference. What I gathered from it is that I shouldn't be worried about lack of carbs effecting my performance. But what about lack of calories? Does fat-adaptation mean that muscle cannibalism isn't an issue if I'm not getting enough overall fuel? (If this is thread-derailing I can start a new one to discuss this)
From what I understand your body will only protein (ie muscle) for energy if you are very sick, most of us have enough stored fat that the body will l pull from.1 -
@cstehansen Thats Awesome advice! Thank You. I will definitely try that before my next treadmill run. I have found that my brain and body say - "you can keep going", but legs usually end up saying STOP - STOP - STOP at the one hour mark.1
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codename_steve wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.
Check out this study before you get too concerned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Thanks for the reference. What I gathered from it is that I shouldn't be worried about lack of carbs effecting my performance. But what about lack of calories? Does fat-adaptation mean that muscle cannibalism isn't an issue if I'm not getting enough overall fuel? (If this is thread-derailing I can start a new one to discuss this)
What I think you will find is although you may not be hungry enough to eat all the calories you think you need right now, your body is smart enough to give you the hunger queues when you actually need more fuel.
In order for your body to start eating away at your muscle (protein), it will (almost) always be converting it to glucose via gluconeogenesis. This means as long as fat (ketones) are your body's preferred energy source, you have very little chance of losing muscle.
If you are down to 5% body fat (first hooray for you), then you can start thinking about not getting enough calories. However, even at 10% body fat, which is super lean, a 150 lb person would have 15 lbs of fat. One pound = about 448 grams. One gram can provide 9 Kcalories of energy meaning that 15 lbs of fat is worth over 60,000 kcals or more than 30 times what you have calculated you need per day.
In general, our bodies are smarter than we are when it comes to its fuel needs. Unless there is an underlying metabolic issue, your body will not let you starve by way of lack of hunger signals.4 -
You know, over 4 years of under 20g carbs a day and I have not had a single day where I do not want to eat all of my calories. Keto has allowed me to get my hunger under control, and I can certainly go from lunch to dinner now without feeling crazy hungry but I dance right on the edge of my calorie limit every single day. And I could eat more, oh yes I could. The difference being I can now stop - whereas when I was eating carbs I couldn't.3
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@cstehansen Thats Awesome advice! Thank You. I will definitely try that before my next treadmill run. I have found that my brain and body say - "you can keep going", but legs usually end up saying STOP - STOP - STOP at the one hour mark.
If I understand the process correctly, by switching to ketones from glucose, you are eliminating the lactic acid build-up in the muscles which is why the other benefit I have found is not having that same level of muscle soreness after running for about an hour.
There is a show on History Channel called "Superhumans" hosted by Stan Lee (the comic book creator). One of the people he profiled was this guy who could run for hours without having lactic acid build up and without having the same fatigue symptoms most people have. After learning what I have and with what I have experienced, I think this was more a result of his diet than him having some genetic mutation. Here is the link to that episode if you are interested.
http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees-superhumans/season-1/episode-3
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If this is about interest in food, as opposed to interest in you eating food, it will definitely come back. I was a foodie before, seeking out great restaurants and chefs and incredible food combinations. After I got past the food ambivalence stage (about 3 weeks for me) I'm now still a foodie, seeking out ways of working with keto foods that give maximum flavour, sensations. I'm working my way thru my Michel Roux cookbook and finding all the recipes which can be made with little or no alterations. I don't really care about keto pizza, but I've cooked a smash it out of the park Boeuf Bourginon and my Thai green curry is superb. The difference is in portion size. Very small compared to the old carb days. We just don't want or need as much food if it's nutrient dense. I'm still figuring that one out.2
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cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »codename_steve wrote: »I've been feeling this way lately too, for about two weeks. My thing is: I'm marathon training. So running 30-40 miles a week and only able to manage getting down 1400-1600 calories (TDEE should be around 2000 and I'm only wanting to lose the last 5ish pounds). I get scared that if I don't eat enough, I won't be able to fuel my training.
Check out this study before you get too concerned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Thanks for the reference. What I gathered from it is that I shouldn't be worried about lack of carbs effecting my performance. But what about lack of calories? Does fat-adaptation mean that muscle cannibalism isn't an issue if I'm not getting enough overall fuel? (If this is thread-derailing I can start a new one to discuss this)
What I think you will find is although you may not be hungry enough to eat all the calories you think you need right now, your body is smart enough to give you the hunger queues when you actually need more fuel.
In order for your body to start eating away at your muscle (protein), it will (almost) always be converting it to glucose via gluconeogenesis. This means as long as fat (ketones) are your body's preferred energy source, you have very little chance of losing muscle.
If you are down to 5% body fat (first hooray for you), then you can start thinking about not getting enough calories. However, even at 10% body fat, which is super lean, a 150 lb person would have 15 lbs of fat. One pound = about 448 grams. One gram can provide 9 Kcalories of energy meaning that 15 lbs of fat is worth over 60,000 kcals or more than 30 times what you have calculated you need per day.
In general, our bodies are smarter than we are when it comes to its fuel needs. Unless there is an underlying metabolic issue, your body will not let you starve by way of lack of hunger signals.
Thanks for the clarification!! I feel better about things now
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EbonyDahlia wrote: »You know, over 4 years of under 20g carbs a day and I have not had a single day where I do not want to eat all of my calories. Keto has allowed me to get my hunger under control, and I can certainly go from lunch to dinner now without feeling crazy hungry but I dance right on the edge of my calorie limit every single day. And I could eat more, oh yes I could. The difference being I can now stop - whereas when I was eating carbs I couldn't.
I know you have mentioned this before which made me think about something Dr Nally said. He says he is very IR and after thinking he was eating keto for 5+ years, when he actually tested his blood, he was not in ketosis. He said he had to take exogenous ketones to maintain ketosis, and when he did, he finally experienced some of the benefits he had heard others talking about.
I know the more IR you are, the harder it is to get into and maintain ketosis. Generally speaking it means your body is more prone to converting protein to glucose, so keeping protein lower may be needed.
I am not sold on taking exogenous ketones. I don't think there is enough research on them yet, and I think they have primarily been marketed to those who want the benefits of keto without eating keto which I don't think will work.
I don't know if you have done in testing of your blood ketones or not. The meters and strips are not cheap. That might be a worthwhile investment, though.
If you don't want to or can't test blood ketones, you may want to try an n=1 experiment of going down near the bottom of the needed protein range and possibly going near 0 carb for a few weeks to see if that makes a difference.
For reference on protein minimums, you can see this:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/
Pull quote:
"In 1985, the WHO reviewed studies of daily obligatory losses of nitrogen, and found that an average is 0.61 g/kg/day (total). Presumable, the diet should replace (roughly) this 0.61 g/kg/day being lost. Remember, this average is for normal healthy people, not people losing muscle or otherwise sick. So the international group recommended that normal healthy people should get roughly 0.6g/kg/day. In order to make sure everybody was covered, the WHO added 25% (2 standard deviations) above the mean to get 0.75 g/kg/day which sometimes gets rounded up to 0.8 g/kg/day. In other words, 97.5% of the healthy general population loses less than this 0.75 g/kg/day of amino acids. This is not a low standard. This is a very, very high standard of protein intake."
Just eating lower carb, even if not going into ketosis, will help with controlling hunger due to things like lower insulin response, protein and fat taking longer to digest and empty from the stomach, etc. which is what you have found.2 -
cstehansen wrote: »@cstehansen Thats Awesome advice! Thank You. I will definitely try that before my next treadmill run. I have found that my brain and body say - "you can keep going", but legs usually end up saying STOP - STOP - STOP at the one hour mark.
If I understand the process correctly, by switching to ketones from glucose, you are eliminating the lactic acid build-up in the muscles which is why the other benefit I have found is not having that same level of muscle soreness after running for about an hour.
There is a show on History Channel called "Superhumans" hosted by Stan Lee (the comic book creator). One of the people he profiled was this guy who could run for hours without having lactic acid build up and without having the same fatigue symptoms most people have. After learning what I have and with what I have experienced, I think this was more a result of his diet than him having some genetic mutation. Here is the link to that episode if you are interested.
http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees-superhumans/season-1/episode-3
@cstehansen - I think the lack of lactic acid buildup ALONE would be worth getting fat adapted!!!! Oh, my!!!!cstehansen wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »You know, over 4 years of under 20g carbs a day and I have not had a single day where I do not want to eat all of my calories. Keto has allowed me to get my hunger under control, and I can certainly go from lunch to dinner now without feeling crazy hungry but I dance right on the edge of my calorie limit every single day. And I could eat more, oh yes I could. The difference being I can now stop - whereas when I was eating carbs I couldn't.
I know you have mentioned this before which made me think about something Dr Nally said. He says he is very IR and after thinking he was eating keto for 5+ years, when he actually tested his blood, he was not in ketosis. He said he had to take exogenous ketones to maintain ketosis, and when he did, he finally experienced some of the benefits he had heard others talking about.
I know the more IR you are, the harder it is to get into and maintain ketosis. Generally speaking it means your body is more prone to converting protein to glucose, so keeping protein lower may be needed.
I am not sold on taking exogenous ketones. I don't think there is enough research on them yet, and I think they have primarily been marketed to those who want the benefits of keto without eating keto which I don't think will work.
I don't know if you have done in testing of your blood ketones or not. The meters and strips are not cheap. That might be a worthwhile investment, though.
If you don't want to or can't test blood ketones, you may want to try an n=1 experiment of going down near the bottom of the needed protein range and possibly going near 0 carb for a few weeks to see if that makes a difference.
For reference on protein minimums, you can see this:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/
Pull quote:
"In 1985, the WHO reviewed studies of daily obligatory losses of nitrogen, and found that an average is 0.61 g/kg/day (total). Presumable, the diet should replace (roughly) this 0.61 g/kg/day being lost. Remember, this average is for normal healthy people, not people losing muscle or otherwise sick. So the international group recommended that normal healthy people should get roughly 0.6g/kg/day. In order to make sure everybody was covered, the WHO added 25% (2 standard deviations) above the mean to get 0.75 g/kg/day which sometimes gets rounded up to 0.8 g/kg/day. In other words, 97.5% of the healthy general population loses less than this 0.75 g/kg/day of amino acids. This is not a low standard. This is a very, very high standard of protein intake."
Just eating lower carb, even if not going into ketosis, will help with controlling hunger due to things like lower insulin response, protein and fat taking longer to digest and empty from the stomach, etc. which is what you have found.
Wouldn't using MCT be far easier than exogenous ketones? And I know as someone whose IR is a total PITA that I got fat adapted really well, had most of the benefits of nutritional ketosis, though I never tested if I was in it for sure other than a time or two, until I hit that wall where my thyroid stalled out on me (which still is unknown whether it is related to going keto or if it is related to underlying nutritional deficiencies - once I heal enough to get the go ahead to try keto again, hopefully we'll be able to rule out keto itself as the cause)... After that, I still had the FA benefits.. I'd have to research to see when benefits were specific to NK and not FA...2
This discussion has been closed.