April Q and A thread
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »@SideSteel I've recently been doing a LOT of reading on Tuchscherer's RTS and TRAC system, and had even started tracking my lifting and recovery stats using the apps on his website. I am definitely liking the science and ideas behind fatigue based training, RPE, etc.
However, what I am finding odd/interesting, is that even after incorporating Joker sets into my 5/3/1 program, still doing AMRAPs to 9-9.5 RPE, jacking up the weight on my OSfS assistance work to 8-9, barely eating maintenance kcals, doing HIIT sessions 2-3x/week AND skipping deload for three cycles, I don't appear to be having any notable recovery issues. TRAC seems to concur with how I am feeling. As such, I am starting to wonder if perhaps even Beyond 5/3/1 just isn't enough work for what my body is capable of handling.
I have certainly been getting stronger on the program, but considering that I have only been lifting again since August, I would expect the kind of volume and weight that I am pushing to be a bit more punishing than what I am feeling. I have considered moving on to something much more aggressive like Jamie Lewis' Destroy the Opposition program (breakdown here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/destroy-the-opposition/) and am curious as to your thoughts. It just seems like even after taking Wendler's accessory work from bodybuilder-esque crap to a more strength focused rep range (4-6), adding in heavier volume via Jokers, and completely ignoring the deload protocol, that it's flat out not enough stress.
I glanced at the program template without looking at the specific volume and load assignments and I generally like it.
My very vague/general advice would be to increase training frequency on main movements.
Something like 3/week squats, 2-4/week bench, 1-2/week deadlift.
The program you listed looks like 3/2/1 on S/b/d.
If anything, I'd probably run his deadlift spec routine, which is mentioned in the linked article. It would come out to be more like 2/2/2. I honestly just can't bring myself to wrap my head around the weird tendency in most American programs to increase squat/bench frequency, while leaving deads at once per week. It's apparently absurdly common.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »@SideSteel I've recently been doing a LOT of reading on Tuchscherer's RTS and TRAC system, and had even started tracking my lifting and recovery stats using the apps on his website. I am definitely liking the science and ideas behind fatigue based training, RPE, etc.
However, what I am finding odd/interesting, is that even after incorporating Joker sets into my 5/3/1 program, still doing AMRAPs to 9-9.5 RPE, jacking up the weight on my OSfS assistance work to 8-9, barely eating maintenance kcals, doing HIIT sessions 2-3x/week AND skipping deload for three cycles, I don't appear to be having any notable recovery issues. TRAC seems to concur with how I am feeling. As such, I am starting to wonder if perhaps even Beyond 5/3/1 just isn't enough work for what my body is capable of handling.
I have certainly been getting stronger on the program, but considering that I have only been lifting again since August, I would expect the kind of volume and weight that I am pushing to be a bit more punishing than what I am feeling. I have considered moving on to something much more aggressive like Jamie Lewis' Destroy the Opposition program (breakdown here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/destroy-the-opposition/) and am curious as to your thoughts. It just seems like even after taking Wendler's accessory work from bodybuilder-esque crap to a more strength focused rep range (4-6), adding in heavier volume via Jokers, and completely ignoring the deload protocol, that it's flat out not enough stress.
I glanced at the program template without looking at the specific volume and load assignments and I generally like it.
My very vague/general advice would be to increase training frequency on main movements.
Something like 3/week squats, 2-4/week bench, 1-2/week deadlift.
The program you listed looks like 3/2/1 on S/b/d.
If anything, I'd probably run his deadlift spec routine, which is mentioned in the linked article. It would come out to be more like 2/2/2. I honestly just can't bring myself to wrap my head around the weird tendency in most American programs to increase squat/bench frequency, while leaving deads at once per week. It's apparently absurdly common.
It's mainly due to:
1) Deads being harder to recover from for MOST people.
2) Squats tend to drive deadlift performance for MOST people.
Unfortunately for me, #1 is absurdly true and #2 isn't, lol
<--- Squat = Deadlift club.
Anyway, most of my powerlifters train at a 3/3/2 frequency on S/B/D and some are at 3/4/2 (which means back to back bench days, lol).
It's totally feasible provided you can manage recovery by adjusting volume/intensity as needed.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »@SideSteel I've recently been doing a LOT of reading on Tuchscherer's RTS and TRAC system, and had even started tracking my lifting and recovery stats using the apps on his website. I am definitely liking the science and ideas behind fatigue based training, RPE, etc.
However, what I am finding odd/interesting, is that even after incorporating Joker sets into my 5/3/1 program, still doing AMRAPs to 9-9.5 RPE, jacking up the weight on my OSfS assistance work to 8-9, barely eating maintenance kcals, doing HIIT sessions 2-3x/week AND skipping deload for three cycles, I don't appear to be having any notable recovery issues. TRAC seems to concur with how I am feeling. As such, I am starting to wonder if perhaps even Beyond 5/3/1 just isn't enough work for what my body is capable of handling.
I have certainly been getting stronger on the program, but considering that I have only been lifting again since August, I would expect the kind of volume and weight that I am pushing to be a bit more punishing than what I am feeling. I have considered moving on to something much more aggressive like Jamie Lewis' Destroy the Opposition program (breakdown here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/destroy-the-opposition/) and am curious as to your thoughts. It just seems like even after taking Wendler's accessory work from bodybuilder-esque crap to a more strength focused rep range (4-6), adding in heavier volume via Jokers, and completely ignoring the deload protocol, that it's flat out not enough stress.
I glanced at the program template without looking at the specific volume and load assignments and I generally like it.
My very vague/general advice would be to increase training frequency on main movements.
Something like 3/week squats, 2-4/week bench, 1-2/week deadlift.
The program you listed looks like 3/2/1 on S/b/d.
If anything, I'd probably run his deadlift spec routine, which is mentioned in the linked article. It would come out to be more like 2/2/2. I honestly just can't bring myself to wrap my head around the weird tendency in most American programs to increase squat/bench frequency, while leaving deads at once per week. It's apparently absurdly common.
It's mainly due to:
1) Deads being harder to recover from for MOST people.
2) Squats tend to drive deadlift performance for MOST people.
Unfortunately for me, #1 is absurdly true and #2 isn't, lol
Same here. I've tried deadlifting more than one heavy set a week and it destroyed me and all of my lifts. I've done this several times in the past as experiments. It probably works better at more beginner levels or with younger people or with more genetically gifted people is my guess.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »@SideSteel I've recently been doing a LOT of reading on Tuchscherer's RTS and TRAC system, and had even started tracking my lifting and recovery stats using the apps on his website. I am definitely liking the science and ideas behind fatigue based training, RPE, etc.
However, what I am finding odd/interesting, is that even after incorporating Joker sets into my 5/3/1 program, still doing AMRAPs to 9-9.5 RPE, jacking up the weight on my OSfS assistance work to 8-9, barely eating maintenance kcals, doing HIIT sessions 2-3x/week AND skipping deload for three cycles, I don't appear to be having any notable recovery issues. TRAC seems to concur with how I am feeling. As such, I am starting to wonder if perhaps even Beyond 5/3/1 just isn't enough work for what my body is capable of handling.
I have certainly been getting stronger on the program, but considering that I have only been lifting again since August, I would expect the kind of volume and weight that I am pushing to be a bit more punishing than what I am feeling. I have considered moving on to something much more aggressive like Jamie Lewis' Destroy the Opposition program (breakdown here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/destroy-the-opposition/) and am curious as to your thoughts. It just seems like even after taking Wendler's accessory work from bodybuilder-esque crap to a more strength focused rep range (4-6), adding in heavier volume via Jokers, and completely ignoring the deload protocol, that it's flat out not enough stress.
I glanced at the program template without looking at the specific volume and load assignments and I generally like it.
My very vague/general advice would be to increase training frequency on main movements.
Something like 3/week squats, 2-4/week bench, 1-2/week deadlift.
The program you listed looks like 3/2/1 on S/b/d.
If anything, I'd probably run his deadlift spec routine, which is mentioned in the linked article. It would come out to be more like 2/2/2. I honestly just can't bring myself to wrap my head around the weird tendency in most American programs to increase squat/bench frequency, while leaving deads at once per week. It's apparently absurdly common.
It's mainly due to:
1) Deads being harder to recover from for MOST people.
2) Squats tend to drive deadlift performance for MOST people.
Unfortunately for me, #1 is absurdly true and #2 isn't, lol
Same here. I've tried deadlifting more than one heavy set a week and it destroyed me and all of my lifts. I've done this several times in the past as experiments. It probably works better at more beginner levels or with younger people or with more genetically gifted people is my guess.
It's not two heavy pulling sessions per week. It's one heavy (85-90%, 6-10 x 2-4), then a light (60%, 3x8), then a moderate (75%, 4-6x6), then back to heavy. You do technically end up with two heavy dead days in sequence, but there's three days of no deads in between.
I suppose if recovery were that big of an issue on it, I could shuffle one of the heavy days with the moderate day, which would space it all out a bit more evenly. The only issue there becomes that it ends up shoving heavy squats and deads together on a single day, which is going to compromise the hell out of whichever gets done second.0 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Just wanted to bump this in case it was missed.0 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.1 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.0 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.
It would be hard to say. Obviously, training frequency/volume and genetics will determine a lot. The women I have worked with have seen improvements in overall aesthetics and composition, but none of them had a specific goal is getting more booty or something similar. Maybe Sidesteel has more experience with that component.0 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Just wanted to bump this in case it was missed.
Thanks for bumping this, I did in fact miss this.
I actually haven't had many clients at all who intentionally recomp, however I do have some examples of clients who have struggled with diet but have done very well with resistance training, and we've done comparisons over the months with some pretty great changes in physique.
I only mention the above distinction for full disclosure and clarity. Technically it's not a recomp but I suspect the results are quite indicative of what can happen with recomping.
This photo is of one of my long time clients and she's by far the strongest with a 315 squat and 419 deadlift in USAPL competition. When we started she was squatting around 185 and deadlifting 225.
This is NOT entirely accurate for a recomp as she's heavier in the after pic. When we started working together she was 189lbs and due to struggles with diet adherence she's been as high as 200 and is now in the nieghborhood of 173. However, there was no intentional period of bulking and the periods where adherence was poor, were relatively short.
While I can't PROVE it, I am thoroughly convinced that she has gained a substantial amount of muscle.
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She's actually heavier in the after photo here, I'll see if I can dig up stats as I posted this on facebook a while ago.0
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@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.
It would be hard to say. Obviously, training frequency/volume and genetics will determine a lot. The women I have worked with have seen improvements in overall aesthetics and composition, but none of them had a specific goal is getting more booty or something similar. Maybe Sidesteel has more experience with that component.
Yea I mean I know results would be possible, just not sure if they are typical and how significant they would be in someone already fairly lean.0 -
@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.
It would be hard to say. Obviously, training frequency/volume and genetics will determine a lot. The women I have worked with have seen improvements in overall aesthetics and composition, but none of them had a specific goal is getting more booty or something similar. Maybe Sidesteel has more experience with that component.
Yea I mean I know results would be possible, just not sure if they are typical and how significant they would be in someone already fairly lean.
So, every person I worked with that intentionally did a recomp, that stayed compliant, has responded well to it (all women). In fact, all did pretty well within the initial 6 month mark and even more so over the spam of 18 to 24 months.1 -
Oh wow.. @Sidesteel.. her progress is amazing.. can't believe she is actually heavier in the right picture.0
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@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.
It would be hard to say. Obviously, training frequency/volume and genetics will determine a lot. The women I have worked with have seen improvements in overall aesthetics and composition, but none of them had a specific goal is getting more booty or something similar. Maybe Sidesteel has more experience with that component.
Yea I mean I know results would be possible, just not sure if they are typical and how significant they would be in someone already fairly lean.
If you are already fairly lean I would consider doing a rather gradual/slow bulking phase, I actually have a lean female client who we've been doing a REALLY slow bulk, damn near recomping honestly, given how slow her rate of gain is.
What you are seeing here is the before photo, we dieted down from 137 to about 129 and then bulked from 129 to 135 but that bulk was over a period of about 7 months or so. Slightly under 1lb/month gain, steadily.
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@SideSteel .. just out of curiosity.. what kind of success have you found with your female clients recomping?
For example, you have a hypothetical female, she is already pretty lean, however she is unhappy about the fat around her legs/thighs and lack of definition there. She also doesn't have great glute size and would like that to improve as well. She is in the perfect position to bulk, but she is really uncomfortable with the idea. She thinks she has to cut more but she knows that will not improve her glute situation and really is confused about recomp and how it can work for her.
I do not doubt recomping can work.. I have seen some results, but to be honest I haven't seen a lot of female success especially in terms of glute muscle growth. Just curious what kind of results you have seen with your female clients in a similar scenario.
Thanks
Do you have the patience for a recomp? Bulks are obviously going to be the most idea for growth, especially in a particular area, but you do have to have the wiliness to gain some fat and work to cut it back off.
I think I am more of a bulker and always will be. If I do recomp at this point it will basically be to maintain my size and maybe see minor improvements.. but I am not expecting anything from it to be honest.
But just wondering if I had chosen recomp, what kind of success I would have seen. I know that's impossible to know. Just curious if recomp can have any significant impact to build size over time, I see progress pictures and I see mostly ab definition results.. which is great.. but not what my goal would have been. What if the person (well woman in particular) has great ab definition already.. is she just going to be spinning her wheels with recomp and wasting her time.
It would be hard to say. Obviously, training frequency/volume and genetics will determine a lot. The women I have worked with have seen improvements in overall aesthetics and composition, but none of them had a specific goal is getting more booty or something similar. Maybe Sidesteel has more experience with that component.
Yea I mean I know results would be possible, just not sure if they are typical and how significant they would be in someone already fairly lean.
If you are already fairly lean I would consider doing a rather gradual/slow bulking phase, I actually have a lean female client who we've been doing a REALLY slow bulk, damn near recomping honestly, given how slow her rate of gain is.
What you are seeing here is the before photo, we dieted down from 137 to about 129 and then bulked from 129 to 135 but that bulk was over a period of about 7 months or so. Slightly under 1lb/month gain, steadily.
What is most noticeable here, to me at least, is that she is NOWHERE EFFING CLOSE to needing to cut. So we've gained 7lbs from 129 to 135 and she is leaner than she was when she started the initial diet from 137 down to 129. Which means we can stay in a surplus for another.... year lmao.2 -
^ good *kitten* Patrick.0
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Thanks. The really lean client (jen) is a freak of nature as far as metabolic rate goes. She maintains weight on something like 20 cals/lb. It's stupid as hell lol1
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So her before photo is before her cut?, so she must had got pretty lean before starting her bulk. Results are fantastic though.
But this is all in line with what I was thinking..., someone who is very lean probably wouldn't benefit from recomp like someone with a higher BF% would.
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Thanks. The really lean client (jen) is a freak of nature as far as metabolic rate goes. She maintains weight on something like 20 cals/lb. It's stupid as hell lol
Yea, that is a lot. I am fairly high for most guys (especially with a desk job) and I am only at like 17.5 cals/lb. She is literally only 300 calories away from my maintenance.0
