Apparently I'm going to die
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I actually do eat tree bark (well, an extract from tree back) - pycnogenol - every morning... I find it helps with inflammation and daily aches and pains that have resulted from my misspent youth.0
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our ancestors did only live 30-40 years, didnt have access to medical care we do now, a paper cut could lead to death from infection (ok I know they didnt have paper back then - just making a point). Also they used to use leaches to heal some disease. Wow I am shocked and amused by those statements.
Actually, the 30-40 thing is misleading. Life expectancy for humans beyond something like 20 has been fairly stable for tens of thousands of years at 70-80. That's because the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth.
The idea that "a paper cut could lead to death" in the past any more than it could now with comparable treatment is specious.
While yes, it is possible that an open wound could and sometimes did invite infection, it isn't inherently more or less likely than now. Consider this -- how often do you get a minor cut like that and do anything more than rinse it off, if that? Very rarely do I bother with so much as a bandage if it's not actively bleeding. I guess if I drop dead come October, I'll have been proven wrong.
Also, it's not as though ancient humans were totally ignorant of dealing with wounds. There's evidence that shows amputation was thing thousands of years ago (and then there's the matter of duel culture in medieval Iceland and Scandinavia, which resulted in any number of different wounds ranging from minor nicks to entire limbs chopped off, and yet people somehow survived). Honey has been used for wound healing for tends of thousands of years (and still is today; in fact, you can get medical grade honey (MediHoney) from your local pharmacy). Aspirin (salicylic acid), as previously mentioned, came from the bark of not just the willow tree, but many different plants. Leeches and maggots were and are still used. Alcohol...well...I think that one's obvious.
Plantain herb, Comfrey, Sage, Turmeric. These and others are all known for their healing capabilities, many of which have been studied to find their active properties to be synthesized into artificial medications.
Metformin, the medication just about everyone on this board has at least heard about, if they haven't taken it themselves, comes from the Galega officinalis plant (aka Goat's Rue or French Lilac). (Fun fact--the active ingredient in Metformin is actually toxic, made only "more tolerable" by bonding two of the guanidines together. Think about that one for a minute.)
Antibiotics got their start from bread mold. Vaccines from farming cows.
Now, are we more likely to survive more major injuries? Certainly. My grandfather-in-law's survival of a massive aortic dissection is a testament to that. But it's disingenuous to claim that "death by paper cut" was an epidemic-level thing.
What most people forget is that until relatively recently, we were still very much a part of the food chain, and in most places, we were not apex predators. In fact, we're pretty far down the list. Combined with our propensity to favor large game, like deer, bison, mammoths, etc., it made our primary cause of death accidents related to dealing with such creatures. In the places and times where heat was a concern (northern areas, ice age, etc), one of the primary causes of death were related to smoke inhalation -- lung cancer, black lung, CO poisoning, etc.
What about when we became agrarians? Agriculture (and later, cities) means being stationary. That's when issues of hygiene start coming up, because now, you need to deal with getting waste products (and dead bodies) out, and things like clean water in. Those were relatively new problems that we then had to deal with.8 -
Nothing quite like a bit of superior knowledge to make you feel like a doofus....!
Very interesting post, @Dragonwolf, thank you so much for that! I appreciate it! :thumbs up:!2 -
I think @Dragonwolf would be a good opponent in trivial pursuit. Or perhaps an appearance on jeopardy is in your future?
Short version of the statement, "the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth" is so many people died in early childhood, the average was significantly reduced. Throw in a whole bunch of people who died at 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., and it doesn't take too long for the average to be significantly reduced. I have an aunt and an uncle who both died of childhood diseases that would have easily been cured nowadays. However, one was born in the 1920's and the other in the early 40's, so treatment just wasn't developed yet.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »I think @Dragonwolf would be a good opponent in trivial pursuit. Or perhaps an appearance on jeopardy is in your future?
Short version of the statement, "the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth" is so many people died in early childhood, the average was significantly reduced. Throw in a whole bunch of people who died at 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., and it doesn't take too long for the average to be significantly reduced. I have an aunt and an uncle who both died of childhood diseases that would have easily been cured nowadays. However, one was born in the 1920's and the other in the early 40's, so treatment just wasn't developed yet.
I was going to say a very dumbed down version of this! Lol
It went like "didn't a whole bunch of cave-babies die before they ever made it to adulthood?
Sames right? Lol3 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Nothing quite like a bit of superior knowledge to make you feel like a doofus....!
Very interesting post, @Dragonwolf, thank you so much for that! I appreciate it! :thumbs up:!
Lost me after the first paragraph.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »I think @Dragonwolf would be a good opponent in trivial pursuit. Or perhaps an appearance on jeopardy is in your future?
Short version of the statement, "the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth" is so many people died in early childhood, the average was significantly reduced. Throw in a whole bunch of people who died at 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., and it doesn't take too long for the average to be significantly reduced. I have an aunt and an uncle who both died of childhood diseases that would have easily been cured nowadays. However, one was born in the 1920's and the other in the early 40's, so treatment just wasn't developed yet.
I was going to say a very dumbed down version of this! Lol
It went like "didn't a whole bunch of cave-babies die before they ever made it to adulthood?
Sames right? Lol
Yes, back in those times babies were left behind with the Sabre Tooth Tigers and Woolly Mammoths stampeded the villages. It gave time for the adults to run.2 -
Wow, make sure you thank him for mansplaining to you. *eye roll* Who is this jackwagon? Friend or random stranger?3
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cstehansen wrote: »I think @Dragonwolf would be a good opponent in trivial pursuit. Or perhaps an appearance on jeopardy is in your future?
Short version of the statement, "the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth" is so many people died in early childhood, the average was significantly reduced. Throw in a whole bunch of people who died at 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., and it doesn't take too long for the average to be significantly reduced. I have an aunt and an uncle who both died of childhood diseases that would have easily been cured nowadays. However, one was born in the 1920's and the other in the early 40's, so treatment just wasn't developed yet.
Indeed, you would be a worthy opponent for a large part of my family that considers trivial pursuit a sport.
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Bwaaahahahahaaa!
Tell him you can't have any carbs because you've got scurvy and metaphalastic impetigo and see what he says?3 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Nothing quite like a bit of superior knowledge to make you feel like a doofus....!
Very interesting post, @Dragonwolf, thank you so much for that! I appreciate it! :thumbs up:!
Lost me after the first paragraph.
I would believe you, but I don't believe you. Youz brighter dan dat.....
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Dragonwolf wrote: »our ancestors did only live 30-40 years, didnt have access to medical care we do now, a paper cut could lead to death from infection (ok I know they didnt have paper back then - just making a point). Also they used to use leaches to heal some disease. Wow I am shocked and amused by those statements.
Actually, the 30-40 thing is misleading. Life expectancy for humans beyond something like 20 has been fairly stable for tens of thousands of years at 70-80. That's because the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth.
The idea that "a paper cut could lead to death" in the past any more than it could now with comparable treatment is specious.
While yes, it is possible that an open wound could and sometimes did invite infection, it isn't inherently more or less likely than now. Consider this -- how often do you get a minor cut like that and do anything more than rinse it off, if that? Very rarely do I bother with so much as a bandage if it's not actively bleeding. I guess if I drop dead come October, I'll have been proven wrong.
Also, it's not as though ancient humans were totally ignorant of dealing with wounds. There's evidence that shows amputation was thing thousands of years ago (and then there's the matter of duel culture in medieval Iceland and Scandinavia, which resulted in any number of different wounds ranging from minor nicks to entire limbs chopped off, and yet people somehow survived). Honey has been used for wound healing for tends of thousands of years (and still is today; in fact, you can get medical grade honey (MediHoney) from your local pharmacy). Aspirin (salicylic acid), as previously mentioned, came from the bark of not just the willow tree, but many different plants. Leeches and maggots were and are still used. Alcohol...well...I think that one's obvious.
Plantain herb, Comfrey, Sage, Turmeric. These and others are all known for their healing capabilities, many of which have been studied to find their active properties to be synthesized into artificial medications.
Metformin, the medication just about everyone on this board has at least heard about, if they haven't taken it themselves, comes from the Galega officinalis plant (aka Goat's Rue or French Lilac). (Fun fact--the active ingredient in Metformin is actually toxic, made only "more tolerable" by bonding two of the guanidines together. Think about that one for a minute.)
Antibiotics got their start from bread mold. Vaccines from farming cows.
Now, are we more likely to survive more major injuries? Certainly. My grandfather-in-law's survival of a massive aortic dissection is a testament to that. But it's disingenuous to claim that "death by paper cut" was an epidemic-level thing.
What most people forget is that until relatively recently, we were still very much a part of the food chain, and in most places, we were not apex predators. In fact, we're pretty far down the list. Combined with our propensity to favor large game, like deer, bison, mammoths, etc., it made our primary cause of death accidents related to dealing with such creatures. In the places and times where heat was a concern (northern areas, ice age, etc), one of the primary causes of death were related to smoke inhalation -- lung cancer, black lung, CO poisoning, etc.
What about when we became agrarians? Agriculture (and later, cities) means being stationary. That's when issues of hygiene start coming up, because now, you need to deal with getting waste products (and dead bodies) out, and things like clean water in. Those were relatively new problems that we then had to deal with.
I like you.3 -
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Dragonwolf wrote: »our ancestors did only live 30-40 years, didnt have access to medical care we do now, a paper cut could lead to death from infection (ok I know they didnt have paper back then - just making a point). Also they used to use leaches to heal some disease. Wow I am shocked and amused by those statements.
Actually, the 30-40 thing is misleading. Life expectancy for humans beyond something like 20 has been fairly stable for tens of thousands of years at 70-80. That's because the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth.
The idea that "a paper cut could lead to death" in the past any more than it could now with comparable treatment is specious.
While yes, it is possible that an open wound could and sometimes did invite infection, it isn't inherently more or less likely than now. Consider this -- how often do you get a minor cut like that and do anything more than rinse it off, if that? Very rarely do I bother with so much as a bandage if it's not actively bleeding. I guess if I drop dead come October, I'll have been proven wrong.
Also, it's not as though ancient humans were totally ignorant of dealing with wounds. There's evidence that shows amputation was thing thousands of years ago (and then there's the matter of duel culture in medieval Iceland and Scandinavia, which resulted in any number of different wounds ranging from minor nicks to entire limbs chopped off, and yet people somehow survived). Honey has been used for wound healing for tends of thousands of years (and still is today; in fact, you can get medical grade honey (MediHoney) from your local pharmacy). Aspirin (salicylic acid), as previously mentioned, came from the bark of not just the willow tree, but many different plants. Leeches and maggots were and are still used. Alcohol...well...I think that one's obvious.
Plantain herb, Comfrey, Sage, Turmeric. These and others are all known for their healing capabilities, many of which have been studied to find their active properties to be synthesized into artificial medications.
Metformin, the medication just about everyone on this board has at least heard about, if they haven't taken it themselves, comes from the Galega officinalis plant (aka Goat's Rue or French Lilac). (Fun fact--the active ingredient in Metformin is actually toxic, made only "more tolerable" by bonding two of the guanidines together. Think about that one for a minute.)
Antibiotics got their start from bread mold. Vaccines from farming cows.
Now, are we more likely to survive more major injuries? Certainly. My grandfather-in-law's survival of a massive aortic dissection is a testament to that. But it's disingenuous to claim that "death by paper cut" was an epidemic-level thing.
What most people forget is that until relatively recently, we were still very much a part of the food chain, and in most places, we were not apex predators. In fact, we're pretty far down the list. Combined with our propensity to favor large game, like deer, bison, mammoths, etc., it made our primary cause of death accidents related to dealing with such creatures. In the places and times where heat was a concern (northern areas, ice age, etc), one of the primary causes of death were related to smoke inhalation -- lung cancer, black lung, CO poisoning, etc.
What about when we became agrarians? Agriculture (and later, cities) means being stationary. That's when issues of hygiene start coming up, because now, you need to deal with getting waste products (and dead bodies) out, and things like clean water in. Those were relatively new problems that we then had to deal with.
I was going to comment on this as well. Both my grandparents on my mother's side, died in the 1930s from things that penicillin would cure today. While it was invented the common people had no access to it at that time.
The military still included using a maggots if you are in wilderness training and get an infected wound. They fest on the infected skin to keep the infection from spreading. And can be removed once the wound is clean.
While researching my family I also learned that I had many relatives who lived to and over 90 yrs. old in the 1700-1800s. That was an eye opener for me, I just thought because of my mom's family, I would die young too. And here I am in my late 60s and still very healthy.3 -
It was a random guy on a Facebook post lol. A bunch of other people hopped on his bandwagon too. After I gave him the actual facts he hasn't responded. I doubt he will ever be joining us since he's so convinced pizza is the epitome of health food.4
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I've been doing low carb off and on for 15 years. Even though low carb has become more excepted since 15 years ago, there are still people believe the "bro-science". Live and let live, no point in a debate.
I know I don't defend this WOE, the proof is in the weight loss...3 -
The truth is that we are all going to die. The timing and quality of life are the parts we can influence to one degree or another. My bets are on LCHF for the time being.4
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LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »I think @Dragonwolf would be a good opponent in trivial pursuit. Or perhaps an appearance on jeopardy is in your future?
Short version of the statement, "the "30-40" number is life expectancy at birth" is so many people died in early childhood, the average was significantly reduced. Throw in a whole bunch of people who died at 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., and it doesn't take too long for the average to be significantly reduced. I have an aunt and an uncle who both died of childhood diseases that would have easily been cured nowadays. However, one was born in the 1920's and the other in the early 40's, so treatment just wasn't developed yet.
Indeed, you would be a worthy opponent for a large part of my family that considers trivial pursuit a sport.
I...may have grown up on Trivial Pursuit and Jeopardy, both...
(Probably doesn't help that I have a big survivalist friend who has also taught me a bunch more stuff about medicinal plants.)3 -
hmikkola92 wrote: »Guys... Lchf is the same as eating tree bark. I'm going to save so much money!
Not saving any money but I have added pine bark to LCHF.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/substance/pycnogenol-pine-bark1 -
His explanation sort of reminded me of my great-grandfather (he would be 126 this year, born in 1891 - but he passed away at the age of 104), he used to tease us when we'd complain as kids. He would say things like how he had to walk barefoot, up hill both ways, in the snow to get to school (silly stuff); but the fact is, he grew up in a time where things were tougher and medical science left a lot to be desired.
His mother, for example, was given warm baths with small electric current running through them to "cure" her migraines. He also told me that gasoline was used to cure lice, and he had held onto a bottle labeled "laudanum" and a small tin box that had a list on it, including heroin and cocaine - those were used as medicines.
I've read that they also used to keep water in buckets lined with radium, and used that as a cure for a lot of illnesses--that changed when people started dying--but I'm fairly certain it killed everyone, regardless of what they had in their diet.
As medical science and treatments advance, our lifespans extend.1
