Subtle sabotage
Alaplum
Posts: 169 Member
After a month on keto WOE, there are some thoughts I'm noticing that, for me, have in the past led to complete sabotage but they're subtle. At least they have been to me, at least until now. I'm sure I'll discover more but for now these are the things that have tripped me up in my past eating adventures.
I'm never "all in" I keep the back door open, it's like one part of my brain is writing the cheque for a gung ho diet and the jerks in accounting (or accountability) just raided the my "will power" account, running out the back door I left open, leaving me not quite enough to honour the cheque. I'm not sure that's making sense as an analogy but by not acknowledging the sorta back room players in my carb addicted brain it's been all too easy to just blame myself for being weak.
Little excuses that a little cheat is ok. This time, I've refused and plan to continue, this time I want to be "all in".
Another one I'm coming to see is "I don't like protein" and I'm beginning to understand that my carb addicted state was able to calculate that protein makes you full so you can't enjoy more carbs. I do like protein, I still fight this a bit, mostly by making sure I eat protein before anything else. This morning I had 4 ounces of chicken for breakfast and by the time I was done I didn't want anything else.
Many of you on here have said some very insightful things and I'm grateful, I often see my own past subtle excuses exposed in some small line of text. A couple of note have been from the same person.
One was, and I have to paraphrase as I can't find the quote, (read so much on here who knows where I've been) 'sweetners can mask the satiating effects of fat" by RalfLott and "I don't know about the "feel good" test, though. I rather suspect it's led more than one unsuspecting soul down the primrose path......" These are two subtle psychological traps that have successfully ruined at least a couple of diets for me. I'm a sweet tooth, and I noticed that when something is sweet and rich I want more than simple satiety, I just want more. That's something for me to really watch. It's not that I'm going to make a hard and fast rule about it, but being aware of it allows me to set some limits that won't ruin things for me. The "feel good test" well, that's been a massive failure and a psychological undermine for EVER. (RalfLott... THANK YOU)
It's not that I am more determined than I've been before, I'm not, I'm weak, I'm a carb addict. There's something different about this time, a desire to be honest with myself, and maybe a WOE that allows for it. Without that constant craving for more and more carbs, maybe honesty is finally possible.
Yeah, I know I've only been on this for a month but it really does have a different feel to it. I quit smoking over a year ago, I'd tried many many times to quit and my addiction was hell. I felt certain that it would be the death of me. I started vaping, I had small expectations, but that same feeling that something is different this time, became a reality. I knew I never had to go back to smoking in a very short time period.
I jag on so. haha
Anyway, I wrote this wondering, have others had this same experience? Are there other subtle and not so subtle sabotage thoughts? I'd love to hear them as I may have a few more of my own to be enlightened by.
I'm never "all in" I keep the back door open, it's like one part of my brain is writing the cheque for a gung ho diet and the jerks in accounting (or accountability) just raided the my "will power" account, running out the back door I left open, leaving me not quite enough to honour the cheque. I'm not sure that's making sense as an analogy but by not acknowledging the sorta back room players in my carb addicted brain it's been all too easy to just blame myself for being weak.
Little excuses that a little cheat is ok. This time, I've refused and plan to continue, this time I want to be "all in".
Another one I'm coming to see is "I don't like protein" and I'm beginning to understand that my carb addicted state was able to calculate that protein makes you full so you can't enjoy more carbs. I do like protein, I still fight this a bit, mostly by making sure I eat protein before anything else. This morning I had 4 ounces of chicken for breakfast and by the time I was done I didn't want anything else.
Many of you on here have said some very insightful things and I'm grateful, I often see my own past subtle excuses exposed in some small line of text. A couple of note have been from the same person.
One was, and I have to paraphrase as I can't find the quote, (read so much on here who knows where I've been) 'sweetners can mask the satiating effects of fat" by RalfLott and "I don't know about the "feel good" test, though. I rather suspect it's led more than one unsuspecting soul down the primrose path......" These are two subtle psychological traps that have successfully ruined at least a couple of diets for me. I'm a sweet tooth, and I noticed that when something is sweet and rich I want more than simple satiety, I just want more. That's something for me to really watch. It's not that I'm going to make a hard and fast rule about it, but being aware of it allows me to set some limits that won't ruin things for me. The "feel good test" well, that's been a massive failure and a psychological undermine for EVER. (RalfLott... THANK YOU)
It's not that I am more determined than I've been before, I'm not, I'm weak, I'm a carb addict. There's something different about this time, a desire to be honest with myself, and maybe a WOE that allows for it. Without that constant craving for more and more carbs, maybe honesty is finally possible.
Yeah, I know I've only been on this for a month but it really does have a different feel to it. I quit smoking over a year ago, I'd tried many many times to quit and my addiction was hell. I felt certain that it would be the death of me. I started vaping, I had small expectations, but that same feeling that something is different this time, became a reality. I knew I never had to go back to smoking in a very short time period.
I jag on so. haha
Anyway, I wrote this wondering, have others had this same experience? Are there other subtle and not so subtle sabotage thoughts? I'd love to hear them as I may have a few more of my own to be enlightened by.
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@Bouddie, your analogies make perfect sense.
FYI, here's the first in a series of fascinating, insightful videos on carb addiction by Jackie Eberstein (formerly a nurse in Dr. Atkins practice).
https://youtu.be/8X8boLYmVo8
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One of the tricks someone posted in response to my Q on how the heck to tell a craving (boo!) from genuine hunger (not so boo!...) was to employ the 10-minute rule - if it hasn't vanished in 10 minutes, it might be the latter.
I'm dumb and can't tell the difference, even when fasting, but this trick has worked for at least one fellow carb addict. (@Cadori?)1 -
Ghrelin, the hormone responsible for the hunger feeling, is issued in waves. If one feels hungry, one simply has to wait, whether or not one eats the hunger feeling will disappear.
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Lucille4444 wrote: »Ghrelin, the hormone responsible for the hunger feeling, is issued in waves. If one feels hungry, one simply has to wait, whether or not one eats the hunger feeling will disappear.Lucille4444 wrote: »Ghrelin, the hormone responsible for the hunger feeling, is issued in waves. If one feels hungry, one simply has to wait, whether or not one eats the hunger feeling will disappear.
So... 10-Minute Rule is golden, unless maybe your BMR has slipped due to resisting hunger signals?
Q - What's the evolutionary advantage to having ghrelin issued in waves?
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Here is general info. What is interesting is that ghrelin also seems to have a function in avoiding depression.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin
It does seem to be as if I ignore a hunger wave it goes away. If it is too pesky I have a cup of bone broth and it goes away.
I am doing intermittent fasting, and Dr. Jason Fung has claimed that the BMR decreases during low cal diets but not during fasting. I'm not sure if that has to do with ghrelin, I am still researching.2 -
Anyway, I wrote this wondering, have others had this same experience? Are there other subtle and not so subtle sabotage thoughts? I'd love to hear them as I may have a few more of my own to be enlightened by.
At the risk of making myself sound a bit crazy...
I have what I refer to as my "little sabateurs" or "inner demons". They are aspects of my psyche that work against me. They are cunning, they lie, and they know all my secrets and they are manipulative. They can be very effective at times, talking me into doing things that are not in my best interest.
My sabateurs aren't just about food, they'll work to get me to spend money on stuff I don't need, try and get me to slack off from work, or avoid housework. Basically any odd thing that can sabotage my life in one way or another, is fair game.
I have been able to ignore them mostly while on this WOE, but they still try on occasion.
The 10-minute rule is good advice.
It's also good IMHO to learn to recognize those sabotage-thoughts for what they are, so you know they're the ones that are working against you. It's easier to ignore them, when you know they're giving you 'bad advice'.
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Thx.0
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Awesome post Bouddie. That could be my post so many times. It hasn't until this past attempt that a lot of what you said has sunk in. The first 6-7 times I lost weight, I would eventually sabotage myself and fall back into "normal" eating and gain all the weight back. This time, it has finally sunk in. And that's not to say it is perfect. It isn't. I have spent the last year with the same 15 pounds going up and down. But, that's a huge victory for me as I have never done that before. I haven't spent a year at this weight in almost 20 years. Normally, I would hit it and gain it all back. Not this time.
So I love your post and your mindset. Having the right mindset is key for this to work.6 -
Ralflott, I'll be watching those videos and yeah the 10 minute rule is probably a good one. The whole eat when you're hungry thing doesn't work for me, I don't know when I'm hungry, haven't for years.
Lucille, thanks for that interesting info on ghrelin and the 10 minute rule. I am trying to do intermittent fasting I'm just not pushing this fast at first.
Lowjax! So glad you have been having such success. 15 back and forth really doesn't seem so bad when compared to 80+. About the mindset thing? I really do think it's the lack of constantly craving carbs that even allows it. I would seriously be jonesing for carbs and I felt pretty helpless about it and I don't now.
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Steph_Maks wrote: »Anyway, I wrote this wondering, have others had this same experience? Are there other subtle and not so subtle sabotage thoughts? I'd love to hear them as I may have a few more of my own to be enlightened by.
At the risk of making myself sound a bit crazy...
I have what I refer to as my "little sabateurs" or "inner demons". They are aspects of my psyche that work against me. They are cunning, they lie, and they know all my secrets and they are manipulative. They can be very effective at times, talking me into doing things that are not in my best interest.
My sabateurs aren't just about food, they'll work to get me to spend money on stuff I don't need, try and get me to slack off from work, or avoid housework. Basically any odd thing that can sabotage my life in one way or another, is fair game.
I have been able to ignore them mostly while on this WOE, but they still try on occasion.
The 10-minute rule is good advice.
It's also good IMHO to learn to recognize those sabotage-thoughts for what they are, so you know they're the ones that are working against you. It's easier to ignore them, when you know they're giving you 'bad advice'.
Well if you're crazy I'm on that train. Oh they do try. I was feeling great, not hungry, then I went into a convenience store to get something for a client and WHAM, I felt almost punched in the gut with hunger looking at a peanut butter cup. I got the heck out of there. It can be very physical as well these psychological things.
Luckily, I hate shopping and tend to the miserly. Housework.. yep, I have some gremlins for that too.5 -
(... what's 'housework'....?)
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I have a food-demon who lurks on my shoulder. His name is Loki. He is an insidious turd. Think Tom Hiddleston in Loki-garb (headpiece and all), 2 inches tall, and prancing about trying to give me orders. He used to NEVER shut up! But now I'm really good at ignoring him. Sometimes he gives up. But sometimes he's just biding his time, planning and strategizing, waiting for a moment of weakness to strike.
He's such a jerk...I still have to watch out for that stink-face.10 -
baconslave wrote: »I have a food-demon who lurks on my shoulder. His name is Loki. He is an insidious turd. Think Tom Hiddleston in Loki-garb (headpiece and all), 2 inches tall, and prancing about trying to give me orders. He used to NEVER shut up! But now I'm really good at ignoring him. Sometimes he gives up. But sometimes he's just biding his time, planning and strategizing, waiting for a moment of weakness to strike.
He's such a jerk...I still have to watch out for that stink-face.
You need Captain America to join you.
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Dragonwolf wrote: »baconslave wrote: »I have a food-demon who lurks on my shoulder. His name is Loki. He is an insidious turd. Think Tom Hiddleston in Loki-garb (headpiece and all), 2 inches tall, and prancing about trying to give me orders. He used to NEVER shut up! But now I'm really good at ignoring him. Sometimes he gives up. But sometimes he's just biding his time, planning and strategizing, waiting for a moment of weakness to strike.
He's such a jerk...I still have to watch out for that stink-face.
You need Captain America to join you.
Hmmm...2 hot guys fighting over me... Nice idea.
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Mmmm, Idunno.... how about a proper set of Viking headwear instead of that weird hat he's got on. And the Cap America mask isn't my thing.... maybe Batman's would look better.0
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canadjineh wrote: »Mmmm, Idunno.... how about a proper set of Viking headwear instead of that weird hat he's got on. And the Cap America mask isn't my thing.... maybe Batman's would look better.
(Vikings never had horns on their helmets. That was an historical mistake...)2 -
Thinking opera here lol
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canadjineh wrote: »Thinking opera here lol
Are you also thinking Bugs Bunny, perchance?2 -
My self-sabotage is not so subtle. I don't have a sweet tooth and not really a carb addict. I drink to escape the *kitten* hole that is my life. And there it is.3
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Darn Romanticists!canadjineh wrote: »Mmmm, Idunno.... how about a proper set of Viking headwear instead of that weird hat he's got on. And the Cap America mask isn't my thing.... maybe Batman's would look better.
Yeah, I adore Cap. But he needs to do something about that headwear.
I think Loki has some sort of...er... complex. I mean look at those horns...or maybe he's just a braggart.
I always joke with the kids and call him the "demented grasshopper." He needs to fire his stylist.
I always did prefer the darker heroes...or the bad boys, though. Steve is way too squeaky clean for me.1 -
baconslave wrote: »Darn Romanticists!canadjineh wrote: »Mmmm, Idunno.... how about a proper set of Viking headwear instead of that weird hat he's got on. And the Cap America mask isn't my thing.... maybe Batman's would look better.
Yeah, I adore Cap. But he needs to do something about that headwear.
I think Loki has some sort of...er... complex. I mean look at those horns...or maybe he's just a braggart.
I always joke with the kids and call him the "demented grasshopper." He needs to fire his stylist.
I always did prefer the darker heroes...or the bad boys, though. Steve is way too squeaky clean for me.
You can thank the Marvel artists for both of them. It's also really hard to translate super hero comic costumes into live action and still make them look good (it's kind of like live action minotaurs--awesome animated and drawn, but horrendous in live action). With that in mind, I think they did really well with Loki and all of the Avengers'.
That said, the Marvel Loki, and the mythic figure he's modeled after, does kind of have a complex. We are talking about a character who has had his lips sewn shut and mated with (and gave birth to) a horse, and then tied up in a cave with a snake dripping venom on his face until Ragnarok. So there is that...
And yeah, Cap is way to squeaky clean in most of the movies (they do finally start darkening him up in Winter Soldier and Civil War, though; though he somehow still manages to keep his Mary Sue vibe). I much prefer Thor, Hawkeye, and Elon Musk Tony Stark as far as Avengers go.0 -
I've always wondered why, when remaking Loki and Thor, they left out the Valkyries. They seem like a whole force of superheros waiting to happen.1
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OMG. You're all there!
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LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »I've always wondered why, when remaking Loki and Thor, they left out the Valkyries. They seem like a whole force of superheros waiting to happen.
There is a metric ton of stuff they left out and/or took "creative license" on with regard to Norse lore. Valkyries would be really cool, though.1 -
Yeah, they did seem to leave out a lot of the actual Norse lore, probably to make it fit the Marvel world. For instance, Lady Sif was Thor's wife in the stories and they could have done more with her in the movies too.1
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canadjineh wrote: »Thinking opera here lol
I'm a valkyrie if ever there was one....!0 -
LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Yeah, they did seem to leave out a lot of the actual Norse lore, probably to make it fit the Marvel world. For instance, Lady Sif was Thor's wife in the stories and they could have done more with her in the movies too.
THOR IS MARRIED - ?! Oh, I'm crushed!!
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »
I'm the one on the left..... because better accessories, although the feathered hat on rear right is fetching...1
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