What's on your mind today?
RangerRickL
Posts: 8,469 Member
This is where we let everyone know how we are all doing with this month's challenge, or you can just share what's on your mind. Recipes, ideas, workouts, anything that you think might be helpful to others.
Maybe, you've tried something that has worked for you in the past and would like to share it with the group. Maybe, you have a NSV (Non Scale Victory) that you would like to share with the group. Anything that you feel comfortable sharing or anything that you feel comfortable asking the group with help....this is the place to come.
The GOOD!! What NSV did you have this week!!
The BAD!! So what....you ate the whole thing!!
The UGLY!! That darn scale went through the window this week....it deserved it too!!
What's on your mind today??
Maybe, you've tried something that has worked for you in the past and would like to share it with the group. Maybe, you have a NSV (Non Scale Victory) that you would like to share with the group. Anything that you feel comfortable sharing or anything that you feel comfortable asking the group with help....this is the place to come.
The GOOD!! What NSV did you have this week!!
The BAD!! So what....you ate the whole thing!!
The UGLY!! That darn scale went through the window this week....it deserved it too!!
What's on your mind today??
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Replies
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Read a post on giving up bread so though I would share what is on my mind about food addiction psychology.
Food addiction psychology.
Quite a lot of diets advocate you must eat this or give up that. On the surface it sounds good, but there are are hidden dangers in blanket restrictions.
Our brains do not like being barred from choice. They actively fight against it. They look at it as grief. (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance). You have a rough time until final acceptance is made.
Second problem is barring a choice that give pleasure is like breaking an addiction. Addictions are an action that fulfils either a physical or psychological desire. If you blanket deny what you desire you go through withdrawal (with cravings and sometime physical reactions).
You cannot consistently act in a way that is contrary to your nature. Willpower only goes so far.
Lets say you are trying to give up soda. Three options, slow down, substitute (diet) or stop entirely.
Slow down. One less per day week one, two less per day week two, every second day at lower rate week three, etc... Advantage: Slow acclimatisation to change. Disadvantage: Temptation remains around, allows you to sneak back up. Also you "know" you get to the point that beyond which none is permitted (grief).
Substitute. Diet instead of full sugar, soda water, etc... Advantage: Reduces grief of hard stop. Disadvantage: Could exchange one "bad" for another.
Cold Turkey. Full stop. Advantage: No temptation. No bargaining. Disadvantage: Grief can bring to what you are trying to give up harder.
What is really needed is a balance between all three. This way you bargain and balance the reduction with alternate rewards and buy time to find alternatives that the original fulfilled.
Eg. Instead of cold turkey on soda, try:
Week 1: Cold turkey for 6 days (detox) with the allowance for some day 7 and an extra treat for keeping to the plan for the week. (repeat till entire week to plan).
Week 2: Cold turkey for 6 days (detox) with the allowance for less on day 7 and an extra treat for keeping to the plan for the week.
Week 3 and on: Track how many days since last soda. Keep a track of best efforts (max number of days - track top 5 successes - reward each time you beat any previous best in top 5). Each soda start count back at one. Multiple tracks so a single huge success does not make a seemingly impossible task.
Important to not "beat yourself up" for a regression. You may even allow yourself a soda on special occasions.
This way what your are trying to stop is not forbidden from you. It's not a "sin" to have some. It's just sets the plan back a step or two. You can admit, forgive and move on without feeling you need to punish yourself.
Unless you have an allergy (or intolerance) to a food, or it is a cultural/religious restriction, a diet should permit ANY food IN MODERATION. Too much of anything is bad. It just depends on what the food is as to how much is too much.
I used to have 1-2 cans of coke a day. I enjoyed it. It helped me relax after a hard day. It was a physical and psychological signal that everything was fine and I had done well (also good social beverage when out).
After 6 months I reduced to the point where I had can of coke a month ago (and I found it so sweet it took most of an hour to finish the single can and did not want any more). I can have one if I want, but usually I really do not want. My taste for sweet became re-sensitised. I keep the calories for other more delicious things (and have lost a lot of weight as well). I found I wanted health, weight loss and better taste more than coke.
The reward of not having was greater than having. Consequently I do not miss it, but I can have it if I desire.
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Thanks @craigo3154 my bread addiction is real. I've gone cold turkey in the past and after a week I don't miss it. When I've reintroduced it I've quickly returned to having too much rather than enjoying it in moderation. When I've tried to limit it to a slice or small roll a day I have ended up having more so completely omitting it works better for me. I'm going to cut it for the month and then decide where to go from there.2
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Thanks @craigo3154 my bread addiction is real. I've gone cold turkey in the past and after a week I don't miss it. When I've reintroduced it I've quickly returned to having too much rather than enjoying it in moderation. When I've tried to limit it to a slice or small roll a day I have ended up having more so completely omitting it works better for me. I'm going to cut it for the month and then decide where to go from there.
@am_change. Keep us informed of how it goes.
The "little at a time" grazing approach to eating has the same flaw (more opportunity to blow out). Sometimes cold turkey is the best way.
Bread probably also has a "comfort" factor for you. Be kind to yourself in other ways while omitting the bread.
Best of luck. You have my support.2 -
I know that it actually took over a year for me to completely give up dairy when I found out I was intolerant even though it made me ill each time I'd still give in to temptation occasionally. Now over 10 years later it doesn't bother me at all and I find even the smell of cheese (which I used to love) nauseating.3
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Just had this tonight, thought it would be worth sharing.
(we are working on lowering the calories for the dressing in order to get the whole meal under 400 cals)
CHICKEN AND BACON SALAD with croutons
TOTAL 442 calories and 47 g protein
Spring Onions, 20 g - 6 cals
Bacon, 15g - 43 cals
Chicken Breast, 200 g - 228 cals
5 cherry tomatoes - 15 cals
Basil Leaf, 5 g - 1 cal
Baby Leaf Salad has rocket and spinach) , 45 g - 6 cals
Peppers Red, 25 g - 8 cals
Mayonnaise Hellmans , 10 g - 69 cals
Creme Fraiche, 10 ml - 18 cals
Garlic , 2 g - 3 cals
Chives, dried 1 g - 0 cals
Bacon Croutons -9 croutons 45 cals
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Eating out got me today. Dammit. I went over a couple calories (took a skip day) and learned a lot when it comes to what restaurants to go to. Privately owned places aren't so great. It's difficult trying to guess the calories and ya don't realllllly know everything in the dish (could be hidden high calorie items). So I think I will politely decline invitations if it's somewhere I cannot get nutritional information. I'm disappointed but will take this as one of those lessons you learn a little too late. (And i don't even go out often!!)
Other than that I feel really good !2 -
conchita962 wrote: »Eating out got me today. Dammit. I went over a couple calories (took a skip day) and learned a lot when it comes to what restaurants to go to. Privately owned places aren't so great. It's difficult trying to guess the calories and ya don't realllllly know everything in the dish (could be hidden high calorie items). So I think I will politely decline invitations if it's somewhere I cannot get nutritional information. I'm disappointed but will take this as one of those lessons you learn a little too late. (And i don't even go out often!!)
Other than that I feel really good !
@conchita962. Eating out is tricky when trying to track and keep in budget. A few of things that I have found helps.
If you have time to plan.- Go lighter on (or even skip) other meals and snacks (save calorie budget for eating out).
- Try get some extra exercise earlier in the day (build up a reserve - the extra 100 or 200 calories may end up the difference).
- Try get a menu in advance so you have an idea what to order.
If it's spur of the moment.- Try find something that is likely to be higher protein/lower carb on the menu (it's likely to be lower overall calories). Even high fat is good.
- Breads, sauces and desserts are the biggest dangers for sneaky calories.
- Go easy on the alcohol (it adds up quick).
- You don't have to finish everything on a plate.
When guestimating because info is not available, just go with best guess. Calories is not an exact science. Even food with published nutritional info is known to be out (sometimes by a lot - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100106095051.htm). Be realistic (know what 100g or 4oz of food actually looks like), and not super conservative.
Managing weight (and UAC) should not be a reason to divorce yourself from social life. UAC has 3 pass days a month, so use them if you have to be part of circle of family and friends. The family and friends circle is FAR more important than the monthly UAC winners circle.
You will need to manage health, in one form or another, for the rest of your life. Enjoy being with friends and family. They are part of what makes you, you. Enjoy eating out occasionally. Just be mindful of what you consume.
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@craigo3154 I so appreciate that you share your vast knowledge in such a caring and generous manner!
Thank you, Rick3 -
@craigo3154 I totally agree with RangerRickL. What a helpful post...for us all. Great points to be reminded of. Thank you for this.2
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Re: food allergies
In the past, I have benefited from working with a wellness doctor who had been a medical researcher. He told me that many of the foods we crave are the foods which trigger our allergies. That is an unpleasant relationship.
My anecdotal experience is that I have eliminated gluten before. After a number of months of success, one day I woke up and just started eating gluten foods again. After a year of eating breads and more, I have decided to return to not eating gluten foods. This time, I have real experience with both states of being. Now, I know that breads and gluten foods make me feel bloated; increase my belly fat; and cause pain where the esophagus joins the stomach.
One of my friends is a lifelong diabetic. Years ago, I asked him, "Don't you miss eating pies and sugary foods?"
He responded,"No! They look like poison to me!"
I now know that to a lesser extent, bread and similar cause my body inflammation. Gluten, or something used with it, is poison to me.
Rick
@craigo3154 and @am_change and @Slimspossible0076 -
@RangerRickL. I can confirm that. Allergen foods can trigger cravings for the very thing we have allergic reactions too.RangerRickL wrote: »Re: food allergies
In the past, I have benefited from working with a wellness doctor who had been a medical researcher. He told me that many of the foods we crave are the foods which trigger our allergies. That is an unpleasant relationship...
An allergic is effectively an over-reaction of the bodies immune system to what it perceives as a toxin. (like gluten seen as a toxin and attacked by while blood cells in the gut partially shutting down the digestive process, while it also feeds other gut bacteria creating un-wanted by-products).
A great example of this is spicy food (based from the peppers family). The peppers naturally developed an irritant so that ruminants would not grind the seeds up with their teeth. The irritant affect the mucus membranes and gives a burning sensation. Birds however do not grind the seeds, so the irritant does not affect them. The seeds pass through and are scattered through the birds droppings.
Most ruminants keep away from peppers, except humans. The allergic reaction (to an extent) we seek out. We even get to like it (as certain pain and pleasure senses get cross wired through associated experiences in our brains). We learn from an early age that if we can resist discomfort, the rewards can be greater (ie. delayed gratification). The better we are at it, the greater the rewards.
As long as the subject is not TOO allergic to the food, the discomfort can be associated with either the desire for discomfort (yes - there is such a thing), the desire for the endorphin rush of relief as the discomfort subsides or the desire for social acceptance/adoration over discomfort (eg. chilli eating contests).
Only once the brain is retrained that the particular discomfort is bad (ie. "looks like poison to me") and not worth the trouble, then the cravings go. This re-training needs to filter down to the sub-conscious level so it takes a LONG time (and continual re-enforcement).
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@craigo3154 Ah! The subconscious! You are so right. We are ruled by the subconscious. That is why the UAC is a more effective plan for long-time positive health behaviors. Even though, many who join mistakenly think that this is a one month challenge, it's not. If one settles in for the long haul, the UAC is all about changing us down to the subconscious level by developing new habits of tracking; conscious calorie limits that are livable for the participant; and developing a love of exercise/physical activity.
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Awesome posts guys!! @RangerRickL and @craigo3154 I have a similar reaction to gluten. I had an endoscopy and the Dr said he saw redness but blood work was negative. However, at that point I had cut out most gluten and was not aware that you had to have been eating gluten to get an accurate test. >eye roll< So I stay away from it for the most part. My cravings are sugars and sweets. I do not partake in that stuff often as it upsets my tummy and well...the waist line grows but I still engage now and again. I reallllllllly want to develop that mindset of "it's poison" because at any moment I could completely cave. I am practicing resisting and reminding myself that I will physically feel ill if I eat this wonderful Amish made zucchini bread or that delicious apple pie...So far I'm doing alright but again I'm teetering on the edge.3
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@conchita962. You are already on the right track.conchita962 wrote: »...My cravings are sugars and sweets. I do not partake in that stuff often as it upsets my tummy and well...the waist line grows but I still engage now and again. I reallllllllly want to develop that mindset of "it's poison" because at any moment I could completely cave. I am practicing resisting and reminding myself that I will physically feel ill if I eat this wonderful Amish made zucchini bread or that delicious apple pie...So far I'm doing alright but again I'm teetering on the edge.
Add a periodic reward (like something sweet, non-gluten based) for remaining on the right track and you will be there in no time. If you slip up, take extra notice how bad you feel physically (and why you feel bad).
The periodic rewards re-enforce the reminders that keeping away from the bad stuff is the right thing to do. Our brains work better with a combination of BOTH "positive reenforcement" and "negative punishment" than just "negative punishment" alone.
Think of how your train a dog to do a trick. Initially every time they succeed you reward them. Every time they do something wrong you gently scold them (proportionate to the discretion). As the successes get more common, the rewards becomes less frequent or less intense (eg. pat instead of food or multiple successes for a single reward). Scoldings for discretions remain proportionate (and must be immediate and not withholding of future rewards - ie. harsh tone, firm tap instead of pat).
People have a greater tolerance for delayed gratification. We can wait longer for the reward, but not too long.
The "negative punishments" should not be disproportionately severe, but should be immediate and linked to the discretion.
Best of luck.
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@craigo3154 Fantastic ! Words I need to hear. I think rewards do work much better than strict removal of everything forever. Once in awhile is good enough for me. I'm done with punishing myself and defining everything around food and 'good' and 'bad'. Thank you!!1
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@conchita962 I have to chuckle at @craigo3154 suggestions from dog training. I do the same type of analogies, but I reference his fellow countryman and famous horse trainer, Clinton Anderson. Craig, Clinton is a super successful teacher of people regarding working with their horses. He is a disciple of Ian Francis , deceased. A renowned Aussie master of the quarter horse world. He always said,"Make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy." Your advice to Conchita is right along that line. She is about to fall in the abyss of cheating and then keep on falling. Your suggestion is for her to choose an intentional less damaging, but satisfying reward...e.g. "How about some ice cream?" The first bite tastes so delightful that she will feel satisfied and she can start to satisfy the subconscious self-sabotage machine with an alternative healthier portion and treat.
Very cool!
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I came here to write about how I am thinking of chocolate today (and did so yesterday as well). Then I read what @craigo3154 wrote and although I am still thinking of chocolate, I aim to sit myself down today with a cup of tea and work out a plan to deal with the craving (and constant indulgence). Thanks!2
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I love how people make analogies linked to their lives. @craigo3154 are you a dog person? My own would be to compare it to a baby's sleep routine.
a baby might be fundamentally a terrible sleeper (carb/gluten/bread addict) 
sticking as best as you can to the same night routine leads to better sleep. (Consistent cut it out = feel healthier) the sleep routine may occasionally be derailed due to teething, illness, holiday (same kind of things!) but you want to get back to the routine (diet) as soon as possible for the greater good! 
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@RangerRickL and @craigo3154 This is some good stuff!
I was invited to a cookout today and did NOT want to go. In the past I randomly munch, just mindlessly munch at events with food, I randomly munch when I am anxious. I don't even realize I'm doing until I feel the consequences. I have some moderate anxiety so I know what is driving this.
So rather than put myself thru all that, I'd rather stay home. Well, I figured today I would face this head on and be AWARE of my own behavior and hide from a a challenge.
When I got there I had 4 oz of the sangria and threw my cup away immediately. My friend made it and I wanted to try it. I normally cannot tolerate much alcohol. I brought my own iced green tea to drink (thinking ahead). On the table was a giant bowl of chips and dip and I resisted for about 2 hours then picked 2 very small chips with a very small amount of dip and that was it. I also had a very small burger with a couple of tablespoons of a couple of sides. I have tummy issues and I could feel my tummy gurgling because of the foods i ate (a too creamy potato salad). I was impressed that I threw the plate away and not mindless munch or go back for seconds hours later. I had a 1 inch by 2 inch brownie and then I logged my food right away and knew that I had little left for the day. I spent most of the time paying attention to what I was thinking and how I was relating myself to the food. I thought a lot about mindless eating and how if I did have more food and yuck foods how it would make me sick later.
I guess the moral of the story is to take a small bite and be satisfied, be aware of how I am relating to food, events with food and respect that my body doesn't like 'crap' so respect it. This was a major accomplishment for me because I normally drive home in shame with a bloated gut.
I'm going to add something to my daily log in about my relationship with food for the rest of the month because it's not realllllly about the food.
(Sorry for the rambling)
Happy 4th Everyone !!!!!!6 -
I love how people make analogies linked to their lives. @craigo3154 are you a dog person? My own would be to compare it to a baby's sleep routine. a baby might be fundamentally a terrible sleeper (carb/gluten/bread addict) sticking as best as you can to the same night routine leads to better sleep. (Consistent cut it out = feel healthier) the sleep routine may occasionally be derailed due to teething, illness, holiday (same kind of things!) but you want to get back to the routine (diet) as soon as possible for the greater good!
@am_change. I am actually a cat person (only ever once had a family dog and that was over 30 years ago - much prefer cats). Training cats is A LOT harder (as dogs have a pack instinct that can be used to great effect) and not many people are familiar with cat training.
I try choose analogies that are appropriate to the listeners situation. I like your baby's sleep routine analogy. (I have stories about that too - like how in a single night I taught my wife to allow our daughter to learn to get herself to sleep at 3 months - wife wife still tells that story ).
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conchita962 wrote: »@RangerRickL and @craigo3154 This is some good stuff!
I was invited to a cookout today and did NOT want to go. In the past I randomly munch, just mindlessly munch at events with food, I randomly munch when I am anxious. I don't even realize I'm doing until I feel the consequences. I have some moderate anxiety so I know what is driving this.
So rather than put myself thru all that, I'd rather stay home. Well, I figured today I would face this head on and be AWARE of my own behavior and hide from a a challenge.
...
I guess the moral of the story is to take a small bite and be satisfied, be aware of how I am relating to food, events with food and respect that my body doesn't like 'crap' so respect it. This was a major accomplishment for me because I normally drive home in shame with a bloated gut.
I'm going to add something to my daily log in about my relationship with food for the rest of the month because it's not realllllly about the food.
(Sorry for the rambling)
Happy 4th Everyone !!!!!!
@conchita962. AWESOME!!! Simply awesome.
Happy to read comments is daily log too. It is important and is it important to you.
I think I said earlier that weight management is as much a mental as physical game.
Well done.
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@craigo3154 Thank you Sir I appreciate your support. I keep fighting the physical part by daily exercise and that's what we all do cuz it's the easier part. Fighting the mental part is a whole other game and I'm loaded for bear!2
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I'm thinking about 2 questions today.
Does anyone know if you measure the popcorn before or after it's popped?
Does anyone have any iron rich recipes that hopefully don't go too far over on the calories? I recently found out I'm anemic and even though I take iron pill, I should be trying to get natural iron every day.1 -
@harringtonen I have no idea about popcorn sorry. As for iron I'm a big fan of adding leafy greens (spinach, kale, broccoli etc) to meals as they also have vitamin c as well as iron, which is needed for absorption of the iron.
@craigo3154 ah I'm a cat person too. But I don't have a cat analogy!
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harringtonen wrote: »I'm thinking about 2 questions today.
Does anyone know if you measure the popcorn before or after it's popped?
Does anyone have any iron rich recipes that hopefully don't go too far over on the calories? I recently found out I'm anemic and even though I take iron pill, I should be trying to get natural iron every day.
@harringtonen. Popcorn weighs almost the same before and after popping. Just the amount of space it takes up changes (dramatically ). Measure by weight, not volume .
I have not had popcorn in a while. We have an air based popcorn popper (no oil ).
Foods rich in iron include:- Red meat, pork and poultry
- Seafood
- Beans
- Dark green leafy vegetables, such as spinach
- Dried fruit, such as raisins and apricots
- Peas
Vitamin C helps with iron absorption.
Be wary of fruit juices if trying to lose weight (but get vitamin C). Juicing often takes out a lot of the fibre, but leaves in the calories (sugars). A 16 oz glass of orange juice contains the calories of about 4 - 5 oranges, but almost none of the fibre.
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Ok my. Goal calories are set at 1220. I used 1086. Should I have a snack to get to that goal? (Pardon if this is a stupid question)0
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@conchita962 is your goal a target or a maximum limit? My calorie limit is a barrier. I consider myself more successful if I have reasonable margin below the limit. If I go over my limit, then I have passed my personal barrier.
On the other hand, your goal may be a specific goal to attain. Some MFP users have micronutrient goals within their calorie goal.
I am just blunt calories.
Changing the focus:
Congratulations on your thoughtfulness at the party! The UAC is all about achieving thoughtfulness!
Rick0 -
@RangerRickL The calorie goal was set by MFP for 1lb per week weight loss. Thank you so much! I learned today that it's okay to feel hungry!!!1
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@conchita962 since you are in the weight loss phase you will feel hungry as you adjust. While this specific choice may not work for, let me share this concept. Carbohydrates do not give us a feeling of being full. For example, no matter how many potato chips, I eat, I will not feel full. I can eat them until I feel sick, but not full.
On the other hand, I can eat two tablespoons of 4% fat cottage cheese and it gives me a feeling of satiety. I do need to wait a few minutes for the food to be recognized by my body. Choose a fat+protein food you like and use a predetermined portion as your satiety trigger. Another food that works for me are almonds.
Rick2 -
Thanks again Rick!! I will definitely think about that! I try to stick to protein and veggies! I really appreciate your advice.1
This discussion has been closed.