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Wait! Flaxseed isn't healthy?

The6TthSister
The6TthSister Posts: 4 Member
edited December 22 in Social Groups
So, I have been lurking quietly (listening and learning.) I recently saw an article somebody posted in a different thread about flaxseeds and phytoestrogens.

Having endometriosis, and also dealing with hormonal imbalances and infertility, this was of huge interest to me! For sure since I have been consuming flax seeds and chia seeds fairly regularly.

I am interested to hear your thoughts!

https://mariamindbodyhealth.com/flax-not-healthy/

Replies

  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    Good article!! I can believe it.

    Just eating keto has helped a lot with my hormonal problems.

    I don't eat flaxseeds.

    I take a few supplements for hormonal issues...As needed, I hate taking meds everyday, even natural ones. I'm terrible at taking meds.

    But just since starting keto... My cysts in breast are gone. My cervix pains are gone, my ovarian cysts pains are gone!!!

    I take liquid kelp for thyroid health. Adrenal support for my my adrenaline disorder. Dong Quai and Astragalus for female hormones.

    Since starting keto, only doing the liquid kelp every couple of days. And adrenal blend if under high stress.

    Thanks for sharing article!!
  • The6TthSister
    The6TthSister Posts: 4 Member
    Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »
    Good article!! I can believe it.

    Just eating keto has helped a lot with my hormonal problems.

    I don't eat flaxseeds.

    I take a few supplements for hormonal issues...As needed, I hate taking meds everyday, even natural ones. I'm terrible at taking meds.

    But just since starting keto... My cysts in breast are gone. My cervix pains are gone, my ovarian cysts pains are gone!!!

    I take liquid kelp for thyroid health. Adrenal support for my my adrenaline disorder. Dong Quai and Astragalus for female hormones.

    Since starting keto, only doing the liquid kelp every couple of days. And adrenal blend if under high stress.

    Thanks for sharing article!!

    Wow! I find that all super interesting! I am really wanting to work with nutrition for my issues as much as possible.

    I haven't found much related to keto and endometriosis. If be curious if anyone has experience with that.

    But it is huge if the keto helps the hormones! I would love to get my hormones straightened out!

    Currently taking progesterone, and Ovidrel. Doctor said I was on the verge of needing estrogen also. My Dr. is awesome and although he is a medical doctor, he pushes a more natural approach. He has me taking a ton of supplements, (which I don't do very good about taking, because I hate taking pills every day, too!)
  • Jessimom2
    Jessimom2 Posts: 109 Member
    @The6TthSister I started keto partly because I have PCOS. I was a month in and had all my PCOS markers checked with my GYN and everything came back normal! Yay! Not sure if anyone else has had that experience. So I’m sticking to this and feel so much better! I do eat flax because I’m looking for the PCOS hormone affect. There are conflicting studies out there about it, just like with Keto. So you may want to look up the information and decide for yourself. I tried to stick with the latest articles, hoping that they are the most accurate.
  • The6TthSister
    The6TthSister Posts: 4 Member
    Jessimom2 wrote: »
    @The6TthSister I started keto partly because I have PCOS. I was a month in and had all my PCOS markers checked with my GYN and everything came back normal! Yay! Not sure if anyone else has had that experience. So I’m sticking to this and feel so much better! I do eat flax because I’m looking for the PCOS hormone affect. There are conflicting studies out there about it, just like with Keto. So you may want to look up the information and decide for yourself. I tried to stick with the latest articles, hoping that they are the most accurate.

    Thanks for sharing! I am so glad keto is treating you and your PCOS well! That's awesome!

    I think I will do more research on the flax and chia seeds. I have only been diagnosed with Endo and hormonal problems since May, so I am still trying to learn everything that I can regarding either.
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    I was having menopausal symptoms at 25 from ovarian issues, had tubes tied and bad side effects.

    I refused to go on that liver killing estrogen pill made of horse urine. So, I worked with a doctor who owned a compound pharmacy and specialized in natural hormone replacement therapy. He made an estrogen shot out of yams. I researched and found that the body absorbs and converts dry red wine the exact same as the yams.

    So, I started drinking dry red wine for estrogen ($12.00/month) versus his yam concoction ($226.00/month) and got the exact same effects.


  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    edited August 2019
    Dragonwolf wrote: »
    I highly recommend checking out Inositol (myo-inositol is the most easily available and works by itself in sufficient quantities, though if you can get your hands on d-chiro-inositol, a blend with a little of it and less myo-inositol than if it were by itself, is awesome) for balancing hormones in PCOS. Inositol is a "non-essential" vitamin (B8, specifically) that apparently women with PCOS are likely to be deficient in. Like most of the B vitamins, it plays a huge part in neurological communication and basically helps "uncross" the wires.
    My choline pills have inositol in them(vitacost brand). I guess they work together? like most of the B vitamins. Eggs and meat have inositol but the websites I looked up said fresh fruits and veggies have the most. 
        Inositol is also found in meat sources and eggs. 
While meat sources are rich in inositol, it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources. 
If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.
    Fruit sources of inositol include oranges, peaches, and pears. Potassium-rich fruits like banana are also considered as foods high in inositol.
    Grains are among the foods high in inositol. 
Note that inositol occurs in whole grains and not processed, refined grains.
    Legumes and sprouts are also considered as foods high in inositol. 
Vegetables, such as bell peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, and asparagus, along with green leafy vegetables, are also good sources of Inositol.
    Nuts and seeds also contain a good amount of inositol.
    https://sepalika.com/living-well/foods-high-in-inositol/
  • The6TthSister
    The6TthSister Posts: 4 Member
    Yes, I'm sure I need to take more time to do research. It was such a brand new thought to me, I was curious if others had heard of it, and I was left in the dark on something that was common knowledge!?

    Thanks everyone! All of it is so interesting to me. I'm so intrigued with the effect that what we eat can have on our hormones and our bodies in general. It's amazing that we aren't all taught alot more about proper nutrition. (But then, who's to decide what's 'proper'?)
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    TheDevastator wrote: »
    Dragonwolf wrote: »
    I highly recommend checking out Inositol (myo-inositol is the most easily available and works by itself in sufficient quantities, though if you can get your hands on d-chiro-inositol, a blend with a little of it and less myo-inositol than if it were by itself, is awesome) for balancing hormones in PCOS. Inositol is a "non-essential" vitamin (B8, specifically) that apparently women with PCOS are likely to be deficient in. Like most of the B vitamins, it plays a huge part in neurological communication and basically helps "uncross" the wires.
    My choline pills have inositol in them(vitacost brand). I guess they work together? like most of the B vitamins. Eggs and meat have inositol but the websites I looked up said fresh fruits and veggies have the most. 
        Inositol is also found in meat sources and eggs. 
While meat sources are rich in inositol, it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources. 
If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.
    Fruit sources of inositol include oranges, peaches, and pears. Potassium-rich fruits like banana are also considered as foods high in inositol.
    Grains are among the foods high in inositol. 
Note that inositol occurs in whole grains and not processed, refined grains.
    Legumes and sprouts are also considered as foods high in inositol. 
Vegetables, such as bell peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, and asparagus, along with green leafy vegetables, are also good sources of Inositol.
    Nuts and seeds also contain a good amount of inositol.
    https://sepalika.com/living-well/foods-high-in-inositol/

    The amount needed for PCOS treatment is measured in grams, so it's arguably more about treating a deficiency than maintaining a reasonable level, but once you get out of "deficient," maintaining the levels with food is certainly something to consider.

    The important ones for treating PCOS, specifically are myo-inositol and d-chiro-inositol. Like most nutrients, not all sources are created equal, so it's important to suss out which inositol is being counted.

    According to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814603006265 , which notes that kiwifruit juice has among the highest of myo-inositol at 153mg/100g and mandarins with the highest for "chiro-inositol" (which I'm guessing is equivalent to d-chiro) at 108mg/100g. (By the way, this paper contradicts your link regarding the inositol content of bananas, which this paper says has none at all.)

    The therapeutic dose for myo-inositol for PCOS treatment is 4g+. Even in a myo/d-chiro blend, it still requires a gram or more of myo. To get that from food, then, would require a kilogram of kiwifruit juice or equivalent.

    D-chiro is easier to get, from what I've found, with beef being up there 260mg/100g. Grains technically have more, but there's a lot of crossover between PCOS and gluten/grain intolerance, so I don't consider the benefits of more d-chiro to outweigh the harm, personally (and they're out in a LCHF/keto context anyway, there's that). Lentils and chickpeas are fantastic sources if well-tolerated, though (assuming it's bioavailable and not bound up in anti-nutrients).
    https://www.leaf.tv/articles/list-of-foods-high-in-d-chiro-inositol/

    I'm not finding hard numbers on myo-inositol in individual foods at the moment, but the abstract for this paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7416064 suggests that even eating the highest-content foods falls a fair bit short of the therapeutic requirements for PCOS, to say nothing of the glucose/insulin load of the foods highest in myo-inositol.

    Side note - this part in your quote:
    it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources.
    If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.

    goes for plant foods, too. Plants grown with a bunch of pesticides and herbicides do more harm than good, too.
  • macchiatto
    macchiatto Posts: 2,890 Member
    booksnbrains wrote: »
    The6TthSister wrote: »
    So, I have been lurking quietly (listening and learning.) I recently saw an article somebody posted in a different thread about flaxseeds and phytoestrogens.

    Having endometriosis, and also dealing with hormonal imbalances and infertility, this was of huge interest to me! For sure since I have been consuming flax seeds and chia seeds fairly regularly.

    I am interested to hear your thoughts!

    https://mariamindbodyhealth.com/flax-not-healthy/

    Not weighing in on the phytoestrogens bit, but as a scientist I would very strongly recommend reading multiple articles rather than giving something up based on a single article. Also, I would suggest only reading stuff from NCBI (peer reviewed science). I never believe anything that’s not peer reviewed unless it has sufficient and multiple citations.

    Thank you, that's helpful. I get a little overwhelmed by all the conflicting research out there and trying to keep up with what few foods are *not* controversial.
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    The internet has changed so much, now full of blogs and opinions. I enjoy reading articles and blogs.

    But, when I really want to research something, I use search engine with keywords like... Clinical trials, results of study, case studies on ***. I also look up trials and studies done in other countries.... Some countries have less corrupt, not purchased studies and research teams.

    Good luck all!!

  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Lots of people like to devalue bloggers opinions as nothing more than that but this particular article the OP shared, which I had shared in the previously mentioned thread, is written by a leader in the low carb world who has been a nutritionist for many years and even teaches an accredited Keto Coaching program and if you don’t care about any of that, she lists all the sources she drew the information from at the end of the post.
    I don’t put much value on posts without sources but when they provide them, you don’t have to take their word for it and people shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss their blog post as just some online written drivel.

    “ Sources:
    1 “Flaxseed and flaxseed oil (Linum usitatissimum),” Mayo Clinic, www.mayoclinic.com, July 8, 2010
    2 Wanasundara, P.K., Shahidi, F., “Process-induced compositional changes of flaxseed,” Adv Exp Med Biol. 1998; 434:307-25
    3 Nagao, Totani, Munkhjargal, Burenjargal, Miho, Yawata and Yuko Ojiri, “Chemical Properties and Cytotoxicity of Thermally Oxidized Oil,” J. Oleo Sci., 2008; Vol. 57, 153-160
    4 Brenna, J.T., “Efficiency of conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to long chain n-3 fatty acids in man,” Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2002; 5(2):127-32
    5 Burdge, G.C., Calder, P.C., “Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to longer-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in human adults,” Reprod Nutr Dev. Sept.-Oct. 2005; 45(5):581-97
    6 Gerster, H., “Can adults adequately convert alpha-linolenic acid to eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid?” Int. J. Vitam. Nutr. Res. 1998; 68(3):159-73.”
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    Sorry in advance for the length. And sorry, not trying to devalue this article or this blogger.

    Just confirming what previous poster said.

    I love reading and read a lot. But there's an excessive amount of contradicting information for anything relating to health, food, or supplement.

    That's why I read through the studies/research results after reading blog or article. Can usually dig through the science confirming.

    But, I've also read bloggers (even nutritionists and doctors) with bad, even dangerous, health advice.

    If the information is legit, the science almost always backs it. Reading the links attached to blogs and articles is a good place to start.

    The reason I like looking outside my own country US or UK, is the corruption. I love it when foreign countries tell the FDA to ****-off and publish results.

    I've found even major research institutions being paid off and report exactly what FDA and/or Monsanto want them to publish and access to studies and results being hidden.

    Wanting people to research for themselves is why I post my opinions in personal experiences. I personally don't eat flax, corn, soy, aspartame or saccharin, etc. I take controversial supplements, B17, graviola tea, ect. But I try to never tell anyone what to eat or not eat. Just my own experiences hoping they'll research it.

    Sometimes I post science or a link, to show where I'm coming from.

    I will say, I take blanket statements as a red flag. When I can't find results from trials, only repeated blanket statements. Red flag!! 15 different research centers saying the results are "the body metabolizes corn syrup identical to cane sugar" and all results of trials hid (how many rats or humans, the time period, charts, graphs, etc)...I cut corn syrup which is in every single food on American shelves, yep Monsanto produced, no thank you.

    People need to research for themselves, and I really try hard not to take it personally when they want to cross research something I stated or posted.

    Sorry so long.

  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

    And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    edited August 2019
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

    And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

    @Sabine_Stroehm

    I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

    When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

    I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,396 Member
    I think soy gets a bad rap in the Western world because almost all of it grown here is GMO and not organic.
    https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/adoption-of-genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-us/recent-trends-in-ge-adoption.aspx
    Japan does not grow biotech food (only GM blue roses since 2011) so if you are buying soy products try to get Japanese soy or at least certified organic.
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    canadjineh wrote: »
    I think soy gets a bad rap in the Western world because almost all of it grown here is GMO and not organic.
    https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/adoption-of-genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-us/recent-trends-in-ge-adoption.aspx
    Japan does not grow biotech food (only GM blue roses since 2011) so if you are buying soy products try to get Japanese soy or at least certified organic.

    That too!! I used to love soy products. Since cutting out gmos, I only eat organic, fermented soy.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    canadjineh wrote: »
    I think soy gets a bad rap in the Western world because almost all of it grown here is GMO and not organic.
    https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/adoption-of-genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-us/recent-trends-in-ge-adoption.aspx
    Japan does not grow biotech food (only GM blue roses since 2011) so if you are buying soy products try to get Japanese soy or at least certified organic.
    I think so gets a bad rap in part because much of it is GMO, even though much other food is also GMO. It very often gets a bad rap because it has estrogenic properties. In fact it gets worse publicity than virtually any phytoestrogen or xenoestrogens.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

    And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

    @Sabine_Stroehm

    I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

    When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

    I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.

    Is there evidence that soy causes weight gain? I've not seen that.
  • Jessimom2
    Jessimom2 Posts: 109 Member
    @Sunny_Bunny_ I love that blogger too :) learned so much! I think that blogger is awesome. But there is no date I could find on that article being written. All the references are older than ones you can now find that say different things. I wish bloggers were better about placing dates and disclaimers on there, especially about health, that said if it is older than 5-10 years recommendations may have changed. I honestly believe that it was a thoughtful and great article for when it was written. But everything gets updated over time. I mean when I was a kid butter and eggs was bad bad bad. You avoided them. Now - especially with keto - I eat a ton and all you see are articles about how healthy they are. Versus back then all you saw was how bad. I saw a bunch of newer research for PCOS and phytoestrogens. Not sure about Soy for PCOS, but that could change. I LOVE black beans. So occasionally I know I can have black soy beans to be in keto and not worry about the estrogen.

    But the fact that there is research out there for PCOS that shows positive affects with flax made me want to at least try it. And it could just be the fiber/insulin affect and nothing to do with anything in flax. Who knows.

    I wish we knew more about nutrition and the foods we eat. But phytonutrients is an elective type study for health professionals. Not a lot of money or focus on it :( Like another person stated, I will find out something interesting from a blogger. But then will go to the articles themselves and also google to get the NCBI articles to see what is said. Half the time you find out everything has something that contradicts another article. So I just go with the information I can get and weigh risk versus benefit.
  • Emmapatterson1729
    Emmapatterson1729 Posts: 1,296 Member
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

    And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

    @Sabine_Stroehm

    I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

    When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

    I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.

    Is there evidence that soy causes weight gain? I've not seen that.

    @Sabine_Stroehm

    No, that's just from my personal experience.

    I had switched to eating vegetarian and consumed a lot of soy. Started packing on weight, quickly.

    All the GMO talk was fairly new. Had already cut corn for the GMO reasons, before switching to vegetarian diet.

    When I discovered soy was also mostly a GMO crop, I cut all the soy in my diet, except organic (non-gmo) fermented. And the weight fell off, just as quickly.

    Shortly after, became a label reader and really into organic (non GMO) foods.

    No science, just personal. ;)
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    canadjineh wrote: »
    I think soy gets a bad rap in the Western world because almost all of it grown here is GMO and not organic.
    https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/adoption-of-genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-us/recent-trends-in-ge-adoption.aspx
    Japan does not grow biotech food (only GM blue roses since 2011) so if you are buying soy products try to get Japanese soy or at least certified organic.
    The Weston A Price Foundation is against any soy, that's when I stopped eating it besides occasional processed foods like ice cream or chocolate. I don't think there is any reason why men should have it?
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    Dragonwolf wrote: »
    The amount needed for PCOS treatment is measured in grams, so it's arguably more about treating a deficiency than maintaining a reasonable level, but once you get out of "deficient," maintaining the levels with food is certainly something to consider.

    The important ones for treating PCOS, specifically are myo-inositol and d-chiro-inositol. Like most nutrients, not all sources are created equal, so it's important to suss out which inositol is being counted.

    According to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814603006265 , which notes that kiwifruit juice has among the highest of myo-inositol at 153mg/100g and mandarins with the highest for "chiro-inositol" (which I'm guessing is equivalent to d-chiro) at 108mg/100g. (By the way, this paper contradicts your link regarding the inositol content of bananas, which this paper says has none at all.)

    The therapeutic dose for myo-inositol for PCOS treatment is 4g+. Even in a myo/d-chiro blend, it still requires a gram or more of myo. To get that from food, then, would require a kilogram of kiwifruit juice or equivalent.

    D-chiro is easier to get, from what I've found, with beef being up there 260mg/100g. Grains technically have more, but there's a lot of crossover between PCOS and gluten/grain intolerance, so I don't consider the benefits of more d-chiro to outweigh the harm, personally (and they're out in a LCHF/keto context anyway, there's that). Lentils and chickpeas are fantastic sources if well-tolerated, though (assuming it's bioavailable and not bound up in anti-nutrients).
    https://www.leaf.tv/articles/list-of-foods-high-in-d-chiro-inositol/

    I'm not finding hard numbers on myo-inositol in individual foods at the moment, but the abstract for this paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7416064 suggests that even eating the highest-content foods falls a fair bit short of the therapeutic requirements for PCOS, to say nothing of the glucose/insulin load of the foods highest in myo-inositol.

    Side note - this part in your quote:
    it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources.
    If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.

    goes for plant foods, too. Plants grown with a bunch of pesticides and herbicides do more harm than good, too.
    Therapeutic doses of vitamin isolates are almost always much higher than most food amounts, especially B vitamins. I just quickly found the link to help someone looking for foods with inositol. As goes with any internet link, use with caution.
  • whitpauly
    whitpauly Posts: 1,483 Member
    Flaxseed gives me shortness of breath for some reason 🤷
This discussion has been closed.

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