I was having menopausal symptoms at 25 from ovarian issues, had tubes tied and bad side effects.

I refused to go on that liver killing estrogen pill made of horse urine. So, I worked with a doctor who owned a compound pharmacy and specialized in natural hormone replacement therapy. He made an estrogen shot out of yams. I researched and found that the body absorbs and converts dry red wine the exact same as the yams.

So, I started drinking dry red wine for estrogen ($12.00/month) versus his yam concoction ($226.00/month) and got the exact same effects.

TheDevastator wrote: »

Dragonwolf wrote: »

I highly recommend checking out Inositol (myo-inositol is the most easily available and works by itself in sufficient quantities, though if you can get your hands on d-chiro-inositol, a blend with a little of it and less myo-inositol than if it were by itself, is awesome) for balancing hormones in PCOS. Inositol is a "non-essential" vitamin (B8, specifically) that apparently women with PCOS are likely to be deficient in. Like most of the B vitamins, it plays a huge part in neurological communication and basically helps "uncross" the wires.

My choline pills have inositol in them(vitacost brand). I guess they work together? like most of the B vitamins. Eggs and meat have inositol but the websites I looked up said fresh fruits and veggies have the most.

    Inositol is also found in meat sources and eggs. 
While meat sources are rich in inositol, it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources. 
If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.
    Fruit sources of inositol include oranges, peaches, and pears. Potassium-rich fruits like banana are also considered as foods high in inositol.
    Grains are among the foods high in inositol. 
Note that inositol occurs in whole grains and not processed, refined grains.
    Legumes and sprouts are also considered as foods high in inositol. 
Vegetables, such as bell peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, and asparagus, along with green leafy vegetables, are also good sources of Inositol.
    Nuts and seeds also contain a good amount of inositol.

https://sepalika.com/living-well/foods-high-in-inositol/

The amount needed for PCOS treatment is measured in grams, so it's arguably more about treating a deficiency than maintaining a reasonable level, but once you get out of "deficient," maintaining the levels with food is certainly something to consider.

The important ones for treating PCOS, specifically are myo-inositol and d-chiro-inositol. Like most nutrients, not all sources are created equal, so it's important to suss out which inositol is being counted.

According to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814603006265 , which notes that kiwifruit juice has among the highest of myo-inositol at 153mg/100g and mandarins with the highest for "chiro-inositol" (which I'm guessing is equivalent to d-chiro) at 108mg/100g. (By the way, this paper contradicts your link regarding the inositol content of bananas, which this paper says has none at all.)

The therapeutic dose for myo-inositol for PCOS treatment is 4g+. Even in a myo/d-chiro blend, it still requires a gram or more of myo. To get that from food, then, would require a kilogram of kiwifruit juice or equivalent.

D-chiro is easier to get, from what I've found, with beef being up there 260mg/100g. Grains technically have more, but there's a lot of crossover between PCOS and gluten/grain intolerance, so I don't consider the benefits of more d-chiro to outweigh the harm, personally (and they're out in a LCHF/keto context anyway, there's that). Lentils and chickpeas are fantastic sources if well-tolerated, though (assuming it's bioavailable and not bound up in anti-nutrients).
https://www.leaf.tv/articles/list-of-foods-high-in-d-chiro-inositol/

I'm not finding hard numbers on myo-inositol in individual foods at the moment, but the abstract for this paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7416064 suggests that even eating the highest-content foods falls a fair bit short of the therapeutic requirements for PCOS, to say nothing of the glucose/insulin load of the foods highest in myo-inositol.

Side note - this part in your quote:

it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources.
If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.

goes for plant foods, too. Plants grown with a bunch of pesticides and herbicides do more harm than good, too.

The internet has changed so much, now full of blogs and opinions. I enjoy reading articles and blogs.

But, when I really want to research something, I use search engine with keywords like... Clinical trials, results of study, case studies on ***. I also look up trials and studies done in other countries.... Some countries have less corrupt, not purchased studies and research teams.

Good luck all!!

Sorry in advance for the length. And sorry, not trying to devalue this article or this blogger.

Just confirming what previous poster said.

I love reading and read a lot. But there's an excessive amount of contradicting information for anything relating to health, food, or supplement.

That's why I read through the studies/research results after reading blog or article. Can usually dig through the science confirming.

But, I've also read bloggers (even nutritionists and doctors) with bad, even dangerous, health advice.

If the information is legit, the science almost always backs it. Reading the links attached to blogs and articles is a good place to start.

The reason I like looking outside my own country US or UK, is the corruption. I love it when foreign countries tell the FDA to ****-off and publish results.

I've found even major research institutions being paid off and report exactly what FDA and/or Monsanto want them to publish and access to studies and results being hidden.

Wanting people to research for themselves is why I post my opinions in personal experiences. I personally don't eat flax, corn, soy, aspartame or saccharin, etc. I take controversial supplements, B17, graviola tea, ect. But I try to never tell anyone what to eat or not eat. Just my own experiences hoping they'll research it.

Sometimes I post science or a link, to show where I'm coming from.

I will say, I take blanket statements as a red flag. When I can't find results from trials, only repeated blanket statements. Red flag!! 15 different research centers saying the results are "the body metabolizes corn syrup identical to cane sugar" and all results of trials hid (how many rats or humans, the time period, charts, graphs, etc)...I cut corn syrup which is in every single food on American shelves, yep Monsanto produced, no thank you.

People need to research for themselves, and I really try hard not to take it personally when they want to cross research something I stated or posted.

Sorry so long.

Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »

I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

@Sabine_Stroehm

I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.

canadjineh wrote: »

I think soy gets a bad rap in the Western world because almost all of it grown here is GMO and not organic.
https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/adoption-of-genetically-engineered-crops-in-the-us/recent-trends-in-ge-adoption.aspx
Japan does not grow biotech food (only GM blue roses since 2011) so if you are buying soy products try to get Japanese soy or at least certified organic.

That too!! I used to love soy products. Since cutting out gmos, I only eat organic, fermented soy.

Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »

Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »

I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

@Sabine_Stroehm

I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.

Is there evidence that soy causes weight gain? I've not seen that.

Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »

Emmapatterson1729 wrote: »

Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »

I'm not going to weigh in on the phytoestrogens much, except to say: context is important. As a post menopausal woman, I'm actually looking for phytoestrogens.

And to note that soy comes in so much lower, but boy does it get all the press.

@Sabine_Stroehm

I think it gets a lot of press in the US, because it's in everything. It's hard finding a product on the shelf here that doesn't contain corn syrup and soy.

When I need estrogen, I take a sip of dry red wine after dinner. It's accepted and converted to estrogen easier by the body, doesn't cause me weight gain like soy does, and added bonuses of helping fight cancer and acid reflux.

I don't like the taste, I have to take it like medicine, lol.

Is there evidence that soy causes weight gain? I've not seen that.

@Sabine_Stroehm

No, that's just from my personal experience.

I had switched to eating vegetarian and consumed a lot of soy. Started packing on weight, quickly.

All the GMO talk was fairly new. Had already cut corn for the GMO reasons, before switching to vegetarian diet.

When I discovered soy was also mostly a GMO crop, I cut all the soy in my diet, except organic (non-gmo) fermented. And the weight fell off, just as quickly.

Shortly after, became a label reader and really into organic (non GMO) foods.

No science, just personal.

Dragonwolf wrote: »

The amount needed for PCOS treatment is measured in grams, so it's arguably more about treating a deficiency than maintaining a reasonable level, but once you get out of "deficient," maintaining the levels with food is certainly something to consider.

The important ones for treating PCOS, specifically are myo-inositol and d-chiro-inositol. Like most nutrients, not all sources are created equal, so it's important to suss out which inositol is being counted.

According to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814603006265 , which notes that kiwifruit juice has among the highest of myo-inositol at 153mg/100g and mandarins with the highest for "chiro-inositol" (which I'm guessing is equivalent to d-chiro) at 108mg/100g. (By the way, this paper contradicts your link regarding the inositol content of bananas, which this paper says has none at all.)

The therapeutic dose for myo-inositol for PCOS treatment is 4g+. Even in a myo/d-chiro blend, it still requires a gram or more of myo. To get that from food, then, would require a kilogram of kiwifruit juice or equivalent.

D-chiro is easier to get, from what I've found, with beef being up there 260mg/100g. Grains technically have more, but there's a lot of crossover between PCOS and gluten/grain intolerance, so I don't consider the benefits of more d-chiro to outweigh the harm, personally (and they're out in a LCHF/keto context anyway, there's that). Lentils and chickpeas are fantastic sources if well-tolerated, though (assuming it's bioavailable and not bound up in anti-nutrients).
https://www.leaf.tv/articles/list-of-foods-high-in-d-chiro-inositol/

I'm not finding hard numbers on myo-inositol in individual foods at the moment, but the abstract for this paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7416064 suggests that even eating the highest-content foods falls a fair bit short of the therapeutic requirements for PCOS, to say nothing of the glucose/insulin load of the foods highest in myo-inositol.

Side note - this part in your quote:

it is important to consume only those sources which are grass fed and chemical free sources.
If the meat sources are raised on steroids and antibiotics, they can do more harm than good.

goes for plant foods, too. Plants grown with a bunch of pesticides and herbicides do more harm than good, too.

Therapeutic doses of vitamin isolates are almost always much higher than most food amounts, especially B vitamins. I just quickly found the link to help someone looking for foods with inositol. As goes with any internet link, use with caution.