General Discussion about Weight Loss, Health, Habits, Exercise, Mindset, and Similar
Replies
-
Pav, I love your posts, comments and advice....I need all the help I can get!.....3
-
Weekends...
Weekends are proving to be my downfall. Since I have no set schedule and actually plan to allow myself some time to rest, I find I struggle to stay on track. During the week it's easier. I'm not out and about, I have a pretty set routine, and there is not a lot of flexibility. But during the weekend, everything seems to go right out the window. I have extra time on my hands and for some reason my brain thinks I need to fill it with eating.
And if I am fatigued or tired? It's like my brain shuts down and next thing I know I am surrounded by horrible food choices.
Anyone have any suggestions, hints, or tips? I don't know how to break this cycle.3 -
Weekends...
Weekends are proving to be my downfall. Since I have no set schedule and actually plan to allow myself some time to rest, I find I struggle to stay on track. During the week it's easier. I'm not out and about, I have a pretty set routine, and there is not a lot of flexibility. But during the weekend, everything seems to go right out the window. I have extra time on my hands and for some reason my brain thinks I need to fill it with eating.
And if I am fatigued or tired? It's like my brain shuts down and next thing I know I am surrounded by horrible food choices.
Anyone have any suggestions, hints, or tips? I don't know how to break this cycle.
I also have struggled with this. Weekday eating - I'm right there with you. I have a routine, it works, it is easy. Breakfast is usually the same thing every day, lunch is usually leftovers or tuna, and dinner is where I get my variety and flexibility. But on weekends, everything is flexible and omg it is easy to go off track.
So, a few ideas you may or may not find helpful!
You could "bank" some calories during the week, so have you some extra to indulge a bit on the weekends. This might give you more flexibility...go out, have a beer, eat some snacks, but still hit your calorie goals for the week. (Note - lots of people do this, but it doesn't work particularly well for me. My brain wants every calorie I'm entitled to every day.)
While I don't plan my meals ahead of time, on the weekends, I do try to pre-log each day when I wake up. I mostly populate it with what I think I'll have/want today, and make sure there is room for treats. This often changes throughout the day, but I update as I go, and for some reason, it makes it easier to hit my calorie goals.
On weekends, I don't do my weekday routine, but try to do something fun and special. Some times it is cooking a big healthy brunch (frittata with lots of veggies, fresh fruit, etc...), sometimes it is a special dinner. I also try to do a bit extra movement on weekends, whether it is working in the garden, taking a longer walk than normal, going for a bike ride, or even just running errands or going to the thrift store. And the weekends when I'm tired and don't want to move from the couch, I might choose lower calorie snacks to graze on, or plan a particularly filling meal so reduce snacking urges, or plan to fit something special into my day (takeout, pizza). I often only eat 2 meals a day on weekends, so they can be bigger.
I also keep a list of "Things I can do when I have free time." It includes reading, crocheting, gardening, napping, projects around the house, art, playing music, going for a walk, everything from basic day to day to bigger things. Every time I'm bored or listless or can't decide what to do, I open it. Inevitably, something on the list sounds good and matches the level of effort I'm willing to put in.
A note on the second part - feeling fatigued absolutely makes it harder to make good food decisions. Getting enough sleep is an important part of my plan. When I'm tired and not thinking, I'll just eat anything and everything. You can try to keep some lower calorie snacks around for when it eventually happens (I mindlessly ate a big package of toasted nori snacks yesterday...for a whopping 100 calories). And also make sure you aren't depriving yourself of food you like. I am much less likely to eat an entire package of cookies in a day on a weekend if I allow myself to have them as treats more frequently.
And, it will still happen occasionally. Find some small tweaks to make it happen less often. And when it does, log it, move on, and don't stress.5 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »How do you know when you are doing enough or too much or not enough?...of eating or exercising?...how much am I physically able to do?...when do you take a break or increase your food or change from sedentary to slightly active?...
The short term answer is do the math, or if needed, allow me or someone like me to do the math for you. If you are losing too fast the numbers will reflect the need for more food.
The medium term answer is trial and error with the emphasis on error. There are parts of this you can only learn by making mistakes and then refining your process. Most of the diet advice out there that includes a single plan that gets you from point A to point B with little to no alteration is less likely to work for Larger Losers or larger losers. The capital L is us, the lowercase l are all those like us out there that are not group members. Even a plan that works for a time may need radical changes as weight is lost. That is not to say that the advice out there is not useful. It is very useful but needs to be applied within your own context and timing. I, for instance, am realizing more that while mindful eating (slowing down, etc) was not really all that necessary to get me here, I am going to need to make some improvement there to plug some holes in my system.
The longer term answer is using the two above for management and also practicing awareness. If you look at my thread on quotes, epiphanies, etc you should see one on asking yourself "why" a lot. After a time it becomes second nature and things that are out of the ordinary jump out at you. When going through the vaccination I experienced some mild energy drops. When some people that previously said they didn't experience anything but a sore arm asked me how I was doing, and I mentioned the energy, some of them realized it had happened to them too. The exception was very active/athletic people who are already practicing energy awareness, the ones that also experienced it already knew it happened to them.
When someone asks, or I ask these type of questions myself, then it is very likely time for change. I believe after doing this for a time we start to anticipate at least some of the problems.3 -
May 28, 2019 I weighed 350 lbs....today I am 244 pounds....I will be 70 in July, about 5’ 8” ( I think I shrank an inch )... I have my calorie goal set at 1370 a day to lose 1 1/2 lb a week....I get about 4000 steps a day doing normal activities....I have myself listed as sedentary....
Although I am pleased with the total amount of 106 lbs lost, I have pretty much maintained since the first of the year....I have had a couple of binges but nothing like I used to...I still have weight to lose...
With the amount of swimming I have been doing ( MFP says I burn about 900 to 1000 calories a day which I think is inaccurate and too high of a burn )....I only eat back about 25% of burned calories giving me between 1500 and 1600 calories of food....
...I also started riding the bike at the gym 3 times a week for 20 minutes....
So why am I not losing faster?...maybe it’s my age or my metabolism....I know I am getting stronger and getting some muscle....should I cut my calories or maybe not eat any exercise calories...I have never maintained in my life so at least I am not gaining weight....
All I want to know is how much I should eat!...less or more?
Your advice is always welcome as well as anyone else who has advice for me!
Thanks!1 -
I also have struggled with this. Weekday eating - I'm right there with you. I have a routine, it works, it is easy. Breakfast is usually the same thing every day, lunch is usually leftovers or tuna, and dinner is where I get my variety and flexibility. But on weekends, everything is flexible and omg it is easy to go off track.
So, a few ideas you may or may not find helpful!
I shortened the quote to make the post easier to read...
Thank you for your suggestions.
The fatigue part is really getting to me I think. Not having energy keeps me from wanting to cook. If I don't cook, then I order in. When I order in, I am not making good choices because, lets face it, there are not nearly as good choices as there are bad. (Note: I use "good" and "bad" to designate "fits into my health goals" and not as "morally assign labels to food").
I suffer from chronic fatigue along with periodic insomnia. I take meds every night to help me fall asleep and stay asleep. So I do what I can to get the sleep I can, but my body just fights me for it. I'm a mess, I know. This also makes evenings specifically difficult because I am getting fatigued (have used up all my spoons as some chronic illness suffers might say) and the willpower goes away.
It's like I went off plan the weekend after my second Covid shot and can't seem to reign it back in. It was understandable that I went off plan as I was knocked on my butt by the shot. There is no excuse for me to keep doing this though.
I think I need a better plan on weekends. During the week I plan ahead my breakfast, lunch, and dinner. On weekends I only really plan my dinner. Maybe I need to change that. That way I won't be trying to figure out what to eat for lunch and then giving up on making a "good" choice.1 -
I also have struggled with this. Weekday eating - I'm right there with you. I have a routine, it works, it is easy. Breakfast is usually the same thing every day, lunch is usually leftovers or tuna, and dinner is where I get my variety and flexibility. But on weekends, everything is flexible and omg it is easy to go off track.
So, a few ideas you may or may not find helpful!
I shortened the quote to make the post easier to read...
Thank you for your suggestions.
The fatigue part is really getting to me I think. Not having energy keeps me from wanting to cook. If I don't cook, then I order in. When I order in, I am not making good choices because, lets face it, there are not nearly as good choices as there are bad. (Note: I use "good" and "bad" to designate "fits into my health goals" and not as "morally assign labels to food").
I suffer from chronic fatigue along with periodic insomnia. I take meds every night to help me fall asleep and stay asleep. So I do what I can to get the sleep I can, but my body just fights me for it. I'm a mess, I know. This also makes evenings specifically difficult because I am getting fatigued (have used up all my spoons as some chronic illness suffers might say) and the willpower goes away.
It's like I went off plan the weekend after my second Covid shot and can't seem to reign it back in. It was understandable that I went off plan as I was knocked on my butt by the shot. There is no excuse for me to keep doing this though.
I think I need a better plan on weekends. During the week I plan ahead my breakfast, lunch, and dinner. On weekends I only really plan my dinner. Maybe I need to change that. That way I won't be trying to figure out what to eat for lunch and then giving up on making a "good" choice.
Ugh, I'm sorry, that sounds frustrating. Fatigue definitely makes things more difficult. (I'm familiar with the spoonless feeling too, from a mental health perspective, anyway). I'm going to assume that your chronic fatigue is as managed as it can reasonably be (if not, talk to your doctor!). So, control what you can, and plan for what you can't. The goal should be to make this as easy as possible for yourself - so what would make your evenings easier when you are fatigued?
Here are some brainstorm ideas to consider, which may or may not work for you:
Could you make your "big" meal of the day be breakfast or lunch, and then focus on a smaller, less-involved dinner? (Tuna wrap or a salad or sandwich?)
Or prep some of your dinner steps during the day? (Chop some extra veggies or cook some pasta at lunch time, then at the end of the day, just assemble)
Instead of ordering in, are there any frozen pre-packaged foods you like? Throwing a frozen burrito into the microwave, or one of those bags of steamed veggies and pasta, can be a nice and quick dinner. Or those bags of microwavable curries maybe? There are also bags of microwavable rice and grains that I keep on hand, which could save on cooking and prep effort.
Do you have energy some days to meal prep? Or could you cook an extra big meal and save the leftovers? Soup is generally low effort to make and clean up and freezes well. I often cook extra and freeze leftovers for quick and easy reheatable meals.
Weekends are tough for sure. I usually do better if I try to pre-log a bit. You can always change it as you go. For example, I recently pre-logged some oatmeal for breakfast, tuna salad for lunch, and pizza for dinner. The day of, I changed it because husband cooked a big breakfast, so I had a small snack for lunch, and cut down my pizza a bit by having a side salad with dinner. Calories still came out, I still had a plan that was flexible. It forces me to think a bit more about what I eat on the weekends during the day, rather than just eating and then logging at the end of the day to find out I'm way over.
I also have a hard time going back on plan. It doesn't need to be immediate though. Instead of trying to hit a deficit, try logging for a few days with no goal, just to get back in the habit. Then try aiming for maintenance for a bit, then slowly increase your deficit. This is a long game, so do whatever you need to to make it easier on yourself and be kind to yourself.2 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »May 28, 2019 I weighed 350 lbs....today I am 244 pounds....I will be 70 in July, about 5’ 8” ( I think I shrank an inch )... I have my calorie goal set at 1370 a day to lose 1 1/2 lb a week....I get about 4000 steps a day doing normal activities....I have myself listed as sedentary....
Although I am pleased with the total amount of 106 lbs lost, I have pretty much maintained since the first of the year....I have had a couple of binges but nothing like I used to...I still have weight to lose...
With the amount of swimming I have been doing ( MFP says I burn about 900 to 1000 calories a day which I think is inaccurate and too high of a burn )....I only eat back about 25% of burned calories giving me between 1500 and 1600 calories of food....
...I also started riding the bike at the gym 3 times a week for 20 minutes....
So why am I not losing faster?...maybe it’s my age or my metabolism....I know I am getting stronger and getting some muscle....should I cut my calories or maybe not eat any exercise calories...I have never maintained in my life so at least I am not gaining weight....
All I want to know is how much I should eat!...less or more?
Your advice is always welcome as well as anyone else who has advice for me!
Thanks!
What was your weight 6 weeks ago and then 12 weeks ago (with dates)?
With a 750 calorie deficit and only eat 25 percent of your exercise calories you should definitely be losing but I have had fluctuations mask my weight loss for almost 2 months before. You have added some new exercise so my initial response would be to stay the course for another 3 weeks but let's see what your recent numbers say.
I wouldn't worry too much about metabolism and after an initial bit of growth you won't see much muscle added while you are in a deficit.1 -
I also have struggled with this. Weekday eating - I'm right there with you. I have a routine, it works, it is easy. Breakfast is usually the same thing every day, lunch is usually leftovers or tuna, and dinner is where I get my variety and flexibility. But on weekends, everything is flexible and omg it is easy to go off track.
So, a few ideas you may or may not find helpful!
I think I need a better plan on weekends. During the week I plan ahead my breakfast, lunch, and dinner. On weekends I only really plan my dinner. Maybe I need to change that. That way I won't be trying to figure out what to eat for lunch and then giving up on making a "good" choice.
For some people making a definitive plan when you are feeling stronger is like taking the reigns away from a future version of yourself that may be feeling weaker. I often refer to this as creating a contract for future me to live by. It doesn't mean I will always abide by the contract but there are times having the decision already made is more important to me than the fact the food may not be exactly what I want in that moment. I think it is also true that we really do not like letting ourselves down.3 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »May 28, 2019 I weighed 350 lbs....today I am 244 pounds....I will be 70 in July, about 5’ 8” ( I think I shrank an inch )... I have my calorie goal set at 1370 a day to lose 1 1/2 lb a week....I get about 4000 steps a day doing normal activities....I have myself listed as sedentary....
Although I am pleased with the total amount of 106 lbs lost, I have pretty much maintained since the first of the year....I have had a couple of binges but nothing like I used to...I still have weight to lose...
With the amount of swimming I have been doing ( MFP says I burn about 900 to 1000 calories a day which I think is inaccurate and too high of a burn )....I only eat back about 25% of burned calories giving me between 1500 and 1600 calories of food....
...I also started riding the bike at the gym 3 times a week for 20 minutes....
So why am I not losing faster?...maybe it’s my age or my metabolism....I know I am getting stronger and getting some muscle....should I cut my calories or maybe not eat any exercise calories...I have never maintained in my life so at least I am not gaining weight....
All I want to know is how much I should eat!...less or more?
Your advice is always welcome as well as anyone else who has advice for me!
Thanks!
What was your weight 6 weeks ago and then 12 weeks ago (with dates)?
With a 750 calorie deficit and only eat 25 percent of your exercise calories you should definitely be losing but I have had fluctuations mask my weight loss for almost 2 months before. You have added some new exercise so my initial response would be to stay the course for another 3 weeks but let's see what your recent numbers say.
I wouldn't worry too much about metabolism and after an initial bit of growth you won't see much muscle added while you are in a deficit.
I did hit my lowest weight this morning of 246.0....
April 6.....246.8
Feb. 23...248.0
I had a one day binge in March and shot up into the low 250s but have not binged since then...any advice would be great!...husband and I had a lot of stress this spring with his sister who is legally blind being left homeless on the street by her son...we now have her in a nursing home and things are ok but with my husbands severe RA and spinal stenosis it was a lot to deal with...as he becomes more immobile most of the shopping and errands are being done by me...he is having a scraping procedure done this summer on his spine that may help relieve pain...right now he is getting injections in his hip and back...of course this all makes me anxious but I have come to realize that me over eating does not help his pain!...he can still walk, drive, etc. it is just becoming more difficult for him...
So this is my story for now!...I have a doctor appointment mid June with blood work, etc....
Thanks again!
2 -
I really am losing my mind....I weighed 243.5 this morning....jeez I can’t believe I forgot what I weighed!...I need more help than I thought but it is with my brain I need help!3
-
Connie I think it would be helpful to you to plonk your weight numbers into a weight trend app. Especially since you sometimes have "overage" days and what have you. It would also help Novus calculate things more effectively as the weight trend is more indicative than any single daily weight in (most of the time). if you only weigh once a month, it may make sense for you of course, and if it does, it is THE way to go, but it does increase the uncertainty. You could be losing much faster or much slower and not know it depending on what happened a few days around your weigh ins.
In terms of logged numbers, one of the issues you're running into is that you're engaged in long duration moderate to low intensity exercises. MFP when you log an exercise includes the whole amount of gross calories you spent during that time.
But the actual TRUE net calories (net from the value MFP has already assigned to the time slot) is at least 1.25x BMR less than what you see.
Not just 1x BMR, the usual definition of NET calories. But 1.25x because that's what's assigned to the time slot based on MFP sedentary (and it would be 1.4x BMR if lightly active).
If you search for MFP BMR you will see the value, it is straight up the Mifflin BMR, same as used by Fitbit and with a lot of other estimators.
All of this is a convoluted way to say that because of MFP peculiarities, the way that they handle exercise calories for hand entered exercise truly ends up with some of the exercise calories double counted.
In any case... it still sounds as if you're trending down. Albeit slower than before.
The question is what do YOU want to do? Are you happy? Do you want to keep going?
We're assuming you want to keep going; but truly this is something you have to decide on as to whether it remains a priority for yourself or not!
If nothing else, whatever it is that you're doing right now is helping you stay on a path that is trending down on a pace that will probably have you a good 20-25lbs lower than now by the end of the year!
For most people that is far from minor, and definitely a better position that the--more usual and to be avoided-- gain and regain options!0 -
Thanks PAV8888.... yes, of course I want to keep going and lose more weight!...I feel better than I have in years!...more energy, stamina, stronger, etc...
.I do put my weight on Happy Scale and Weight Diary Light..
..I know I do not burn as many calories as MFP says I do and that’s why I only eat about 25% of the calories back...as far as the low intensity exercises go, I really don’t know what other exercises I could participate in....I can’t run on land and I can’t do really joint impacting aerobics....I do Richard Simmons on occasion ( I hate that little man! )..
. I measure and weigh all of my foods and I don’t forget to log things...I don’t take extra bites of food or clean up the leftovers either....maybe I need to eat less by a couple of hundred calories but if I am doing this the rest of my life ( as I plan on doing ) I guess I should be happy to lose slower and be able to stick with it....I would just really like to get to 220 and then be happy to slow the next twenty pounds down...weighing 199 would be the lowest I really want to go because of my age, skin, etc...
I do have binges but I haven’t for about six weeks and the last one was really just an over feed but of course my over feeds can be a massive amount of calories....the binges are further apart and fewer...
How much more would I have to do to be lightly active?...I am swimming 5 days a week and biking at the gym 20 min. three times a week...I want to get up to 30 minutes on the bike....most of the errands and shopping have become my responsibility with my husbands health problems....I know I have anxiety but I take “ happy “ pills daily!...and I will be 70 in July with two replaced knees, a fixed shoulder, had back surgery and a few bad discs in my neck and back!..( gee I am a mess! ).... I think my hip is going, too!...SMH
Any and all suggestions are appreciated...it means so much that you and Novus take the time to help us!1 -
What if I go to 2 lb. loss a week goal instead of 1.5 lb. and only count actual exercise and no cleaning or cooking?...that would certainly lower my calories I eat....just don’t know if I could get by on too many less calories....we will see....I am going to do some tweaking on here the next few days!0
-
conniewilkins56 wrote: »I do put my weight on Happy Scale and Weight Diary Light..
So to the question novus asked you about your weight: what were your "happy scale" and "weight diary light" trending weight numbers on the timeframes he asked about?conniewilkins56 wrote: »..I know I do not burn as many calories as MFP says I do and that’s why I only eat about 25% of the calories back...as far as the low intensity exercises go, I really don’t know what other exercises I could participate in
the best exercise is the one you're likely and willing to do. It doesn't matter what the numbers estimate or whether these are "low end" or "high end" exercises... you're willing and able to do and enjoy them: that's what counts! And if 25% is the correct percentage on average, it's the correct percentage.
Sure. I do exercise / walk in order to "get more calories to spend", or at least I did so initially. Now I mostly do it because I want to stretch my legs, vent some agitation, and listen to my audiobook and have some me time. The calories are either a bonus. Or sometimes even a pain in the butt instead of a bonus as I have to adjust meal timing or snack or what have you to get enough calories in without overdoing it... and when I start on cliff bars and chocolates the without over-doing part becomes a problem... but multi-hour walks don't happen on cherry tomatoes and no-dressing coleslaw mix! So try to pick the exercise because you enjoy it! Which according to your reports: you do!!!
This is a great victory! Is it correlated with keeping to a smaller deficit? Or just with feeling better about your weight and being more active?conniewilkins56 wrote: »I do have binges but I haven’t for about six weeks and the last one was really just an over feed but of course my over feeds can be a massive amount of calories....the binges are further apart and fewer...conniewilkins56 wrote: »How much more would I have to do to be lightly active?...I am swimming 5 days a week and biking at the gym 20 min. three times a week...I want to get up to 30 minutes on the bike....most of the errands and shopping have become my responsibility with my husbands health problems
This is the part that has me a bit at a loss. What does being lightly active mean to you or how would it change things for you? Are you feeling that you would like to eat more? Are you wondering if you are already too active or that you're not active enough?
The activity labels are just that. Labels to "pre-guess" or pre-estimate your likely daily burn.
If you're eating back 25% of 1500 Calories i.e. a good 375 calories over sedentary, you're probably close to the ACTIVE category if you were to not add ANY exercise. Or lightly active while adding a very small amount. Or somewhere in between.
So is the question how to increase food intake without slowing down weight loss? Is the question how to speed up weight loss? Are you wondering if you can call yourself an active gramma?
(the answer is YES!!) Inquiring minds and confused helpers want to know! 
I am heading out with the puppy... so it will be a few hours before I look for a response!1 -
April 6 was 246.8
Feb. 23 was 248.0
This was on Happy Scale...
Yes, I exercise to get more food but I am honestly starting to like how good it makes me feel to be able to actually exercise!...I feel strong and I like the energy it gives me....
I think the binges are under control because mentally I am in a good place right now and I am getting enough to eat....I also like all of the compliments I am getting!...I am competitive and I have been pushing myself to d more so I am competing against myself!...and I like to win....
I know everyone gets tired and we don’t feel good every day but last week my energy was bottomed out...it’s hot here and I do drink a lot of fluids ( mostly water ).... so I probably did do too much....getting groceries and bringing them in and putting them away is hard work in 90+ degrees...and then my grandson and I dragged a ton of stuff to the road out of the garage....plus the swimming and biking....is the exercise I am doing enough or too much?
I want to speed up my weight loss without eating less food than I am now....( doesn’t everyone? ).... how much more exercise should I do or can I do without zapping my energy?....and I do not plan on aging!...I have reached the age where I will remain 70 for a few years if anyone dares ask me how old I am lol....my daughter says I lie so much about my age that she can’t remember how old I am lol....I plan on keeping it that way....I will never be “ old “....0 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »What if I go to 2 lb. loss a week goal instead of 1.5 lb. and only count actual exercise and no cleaning or cooking?...that would certainly lower my calories I eat....just don’t know if I could get by on too many less calories....we will see....I am going to do some tweaking on here the next few days!
But... but.... why would you do all that?!?!? You've already got a system that works for your logging!
Are you trying to increase your loss rate?
All you need to know is that you've lost a certain amount of lbs... I think you've indicated about 1.5 to 2lbs a month at this stage.
So your effective deficit is about 200 Cal a day. (the magic estimate is 3500 Cal per lb)
Which means your maintenance calories as currently showing based on weight changes are whatever you've logged in terms of food intake plus 200 Cal a day on average.
You know me. I advocate cautiousness as to the degree of pressure especially if fatigue has set in..
if you increase your 200 Cal a day deficit by 250 Cal (1.5lb to 2lb move)... you would more than double your current deficit! If you also stop logging other things you would apply even more pressure.
3 -
Understood!2
-
Also Connie do note that after a long period of deficit we do tend to slow down or exhibit some degree of
what is known as adaptive thermogenesis. Which means that that three and a half thousand magic number may actually represent four or five or more thousand calories of actual deficit from what your numbers would have been without the adaptation..
Usually a long enough period of eating at maintenance (or perhaps more undesirably a time period of eating at surplus) helps to reverse this adaptation.
This is the basis of recommendations for maintenance breaks and for people to seek to reverse diet at the end of weight loss
deficits that may not seem to do much 2 years into continuous weight loss might yield results after a long time at maintenance
By the way if you're on your feet and up and about several hours a day you're not sedentary regardless of whether the estimates and calories cooperate.
Most of us tend to compensate for such slowdowns by being able to do much more than we used to be able to and by increasing intensity as we get more fit. But I'm curious what Novus and others may think
0 -
By the way isn't technology wonderful? Skylar and I are posting from our mini forest where we're hoping not to run into the big coyote pack that howled as we were walking nearby a couple of days ago!1
