Vitamin K2
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TheDevastator
Posts: 1,626 Member
Does anyone supplement with vitamin K2? If so, how much? I'm currently taking about 200 mcg a day with my vitamins D3 and E mixed complex.
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There is no concrete science I have found on the subject but your dosage is typical. I shot for at least 100 mcg of MK-7 per 10,000 units of D3. For others in the house I keep an MK-7/D3 mix. A 5000 unit capsule of D3 also contains 180 mcg K2 MK7. Personally I do K1 and K2 MK-4 and MK7 but MK-7 is the one I deem the must do to lower coronary artery calcium scores. My score was 9.8 three years ago so I want to keep it that way. I have been heavy into fish oil since 1996 which helps with arthritis pain in my n=1.
If one does like Coumadin (Warfarin) one needs to be aware of K1. K2 is thought to be positive for diabetes as well as directing calcium from building up in the arteries but going to the bones and teeth if doing high dosage of D3 because a high dosage of D3 is undefined by science at this time and the anecdotal values are all over the board.
I just read read Tiago Henriques book on Vitamin D3 and K2 so there are reviews on Amazon if interested. Hopefully there will be settled science but today we are stuck with anecdotal data.1 -
The book looks good, I bought it on kindle. I've read "vitamin k2 and the calcium paradox" which is a good read and Jeff Bowles book on high dose vitamin d which really was testing the limits of high dose d3 therapy. I just take K2 MK-7 since it can be used by the body for a longer period of time than MK-4. Supplementing K1 would be smart since most of the foods I eat don't have enough.
I'm doing high dose vitamin E treatment (http://www.doctoryourself.com/heartdisease.html) for chest pains related to amlodipine I was taking for high blood pressure. I try to take enough D3 and K2 to balance that.
People on blood thinners need to be wary of K1 and K2 deficiencies. They can increase their CAC score in no time at all. There are newer drugs that don't effect vitamin K status. https://innovixlabs.com/blogs/insights/vitamin-k2-and-coagulation1 -
I know have read Jeff Bowles' book because he talked about taking 100,000 units daily but I will find it or remember loaning it. My memory is recovering after 5 months trial of CBD oil. Just now my Amazon password popped into my vision after trying to remember it for weeks.
Multiple Sclerosis and lots of Vitamin D by Ana Claudia Domene is another book where she talks about being on the Coimbra Protocol for 8 years. It was meaningful to me but read some reveiws before putting up $$$.
I really must get my books organize that I have been ordering and reading for many years on many subjects.
I have a brother-in-law with very serious side effects from Warfarin use long term.0 -
I'm not going to try that high of dose, I just take 5,000 iu d3 a day and 100-200 mcg k2. I think eating well is more important than too many supplements.
Most of my books are on kindle so it's easy to locate, hard to find the right spot of, the book.1 -
TheDevastator wrote: »I'm not going to try that high of dose, I just take 5,000 iu d3 a day and 100-200 mcg k2. I think eating well is more important than too many supplements.
Most of my books are on kindle so it's easy to locate, hard to find the right spot of, the book.
The nice thing testing for Vitamin D levels are normally part of an annual lab work protocol. Personally I consider anything in the 75-150 ng level range to be protective against most premature death causes. Not sure about COVID-19.
In 2013 my Vitamin D level was 22 ng so the doctor had a talk with me. In 2014 it was 28 ng and he let me know if I was serious about showing up at my 110th birthday party that I had to get serious and to shoot for 90 ng.
In 2015 I had a new doctor and she freaked when I hit 120 ng so I started reading research and found there were no proven known toxic levels but just anecdotal remarks. Next year I brought this up with her and she said that was true and that annual conversation ceased.
In another MFP thread I learned about Vitamin D helped move calcium out of the gut and into blood stream where it could build up in the arteries instead of the bones and teeth only leading to heart attacks and strokes. There was a doctor marketing to come to his practice to lower your Coronary Artery Calcium Score which I did not know was even possible.
Here on MFP was when I started to learn about Vitamin K2 for the first time. In earning my OD degree we had pharmacology like MD's have but it was just about Rx meds.
After I learned here that K2 was the steering wheel that puts calcium into the bones and teeth instead of the arteries I learned K2 could move calcium deposits from arteries back into the bones and teeth.
I had moved to using 50,000 unit D3 capsules once a week to save money and effort. When I read daily was better than weekly and I had a boat load of the 50K capsules I started to taking one daily and have not found any reason to change that but I am looking for them all of the time. For the past 3 years my levels have been at 155+ ng since the lab does not test beyond that level. This is just my n=1 experience and I do not promote it for others. I keep Vit K2 with 5K D3 capsules for others in the household.
With the event of COVID-19 I continue to read to see its antiviral roll if any. In the UK a few years ago one larger study showed D3 reduced the odds of getting the common flu better than getting the annual flu shot which was telling in my view.
Your dosage level seems typical and very safe for the general population. If you find some key K2/D3 research please post a link.2 -
For me the Vitamin K2 factors in health still are not fully clear but it does seem if balanced the gut microbiome can make K2 for us. That is the reason I go ahead and supplement.
https://intechopen.com/books/vitamin-k2-vital-for-health-and-wellbeing/menaquinones-bacteria-and-foods-vitamin-k2-in-the-diet
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/weight-loss/vitamin-d-impacts-insulin-metabolism-and-obesity/articleshow/77597662.cms
We know there is a relationship between K2 & D3. We know vit
D levels and the gut microbiome can be a factor in resolving obesity. In time maybe it will all become clear.
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So you take 50,000 iu d3 a day and 500 mcg mk-7 k2? I took 10,000 iu d3 and 100 mcg mk-7 k2 today. I might go up to 15,000 iu a day.
Don't forget vitamin E, it's the antagonist of Vitamin K and helps stop abnormal clotting. I'm taking 1600 iu of alpha tocopherol and one pill of mixed tocotrienols but I was getting chest pains, so this is a high dose.
Vitamin A or retinol is also important for hormones like testosterone but I get it from foods not supplements since it's synthetic. I eat liver and eggs and get over 100% rda almost every day.
Have you looked into borax for arthritis? I take 1/4 teaspoon in a quart of water (recommended men's dose) about 3 times a week for many benefits since I don't have arthritis much yet.
The Borax Conspiracy0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »So you take 50,000 iu d3 a day and 500 mcg mk-7 k2? I took 10,000 iu d3 and 100 mcg mk-7 k2 today. I might go up to 15,000 iu a day.
Don't forget vitamin E, it's the antagonist of Vitamin K and helps stop abnormal clotting. I'm taking 1600 iu of alpha tocopherol and one pill of mixed tocotrienols but I was getting chest pains, so this is a high dose.
Vitamin A or retinol is also important for hormones like testosterone but I get it from foods not supplements since it's synthetic. I eat liver and eggs and get over 100% rda almost every day.
Have you looked into borax for arthritis? I take 1/4 teaspoon in a quart of water (recommended men's dose) about 3 times a week for many benefits since I don't have arthritis much yet.
The Borax Conspiracy
What are your Vit D level at last labs? I know there's no real science regarding Vit D yet I sense around 100 nl may be s sweet spot. Hopefully in the next 3-5 years COVID-19 data will solidify as to Vit D levels that were helpful managing the.symptoms if any.1 -
I think I'll go back to 5,000 iu. I'm not really concerned with a blood test but might get one in a few months. I'd be happy anywhere from 60-100 ng/ml.1
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TheDevastator wrote: »I think I'll go back to 5,000 iu. I'm not really concerned with a blood test but might get one in a few months. I'd be happy anywhere from 60-100 ng/ml.
That sounds like a sweet spot. Some day science hopefully will shed more light on this subject. Magnesium is needed as well.
https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2673882
https://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2673882#:~:text=Magnesium assists in the activation,in the liver and kidneys.1 -
K2 is something I never heard of before info here on MFP as it relates to Vit D safety at higher levels.
https://healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-vitamin-d-is-too-much#section4
"Taking vitamin A, vitamin K and magnesium with vitamin D may therefore improve bone function and reduce the chances of other tissues becoming calcified."
Below is more on K2 value. Keep in mind there is no proven science on this Vit D and related supplements. Actually the link is to article after article.
https://healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k
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@TheDevastator the article below shows how unknown Vitamin K2 can be to MD's and how hard science is often missing from their input just because Vit D is not a well studied yet.
If you wish just skip to the readers comments for random thoughts on K2.
https://devaboone.com/post/vitamin-d-part-2-shannon-s-story0 -
Vitamin D has been studied a lot but sometimes the commenters have the most facts versus doctors. I'm just taking 5,000 iu because that is about the highest or slightly more than they recommend in all the books I've read. I don't see how a crazy vitamin D number can be helpful compared to 60-80 ng/ml for mostly healthy people. It's just one nutrient out of many.
I do supplement magnesium and most of the other minerals and eat good salt. "The Magnesium Miracle" is a good book but I think they overdo how much you actually need a day. I think I'm supposed to take 900 mg minimum a day. I'd be in the bathroom all the time with that much.1 -
Probably only if you are supplementing with the cheap magnesium oxide. I take 800 mg a day Mag bisglyconate and have no issues.I'd be in the bathroom all the time with that much.1 -
It's not magnesium oxide, it's magnesium glycinate and lysinate. Mineral drops also can make me go too since they are mostly magnesium.canadjineh wrote: »
Probably only if you are supplementing with the cheap magnesium oxide. I take 800 mg a day Mag bisglyconate and have no issues.I'd be in the bathroom all the time with that much.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »Vitamin D has been studied a lot but sometimes the commenters have the most facts versus doctors. I'm just taking 5,000 iu because that is about the highest or slightly more than they recommend in all the books I've read. I don't see how a crazy vitamin D number can be helpful compared to 60-80 ng/ml for mostly healthy people. It's just one nutrient out of many.
I do supplement magnesium and most of the other minerals and eat good salt. "The Magnesium Miracle" is a good book but I think they overdo how much you actually need a day. I think I'm supposed to take 900 mg minimum a day. I'd be in the bathroom all the time with that much.
60-80 ng/ml Vit D levels should be good especially in this current pandemic era. Some think a good amount of magnium is required for Vit D3 work well. I was happy with lab results today in light of my D3 intake. I try to take 1200 mg of additional of magnesium daily to help with leg cramps.0 -
@TheDevastator below is a link with a chain of related D3 links below the article. While these published articles are not hard research but I found them helpful over safety concerns at high blood levels at different dosages.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28012936/
" A 2011 report on vitamin D toxicity showed that hypercalcemia resolved when 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) blood levels dropped below 400ng/ml in 2 patients with blood levels ranging from 645ng/ml to 1220ng/ml after accidental ingestion of massive doses of vitamin D." This may have been a small diary that was shipped some mislabeled Vit D to add to the milk.
" There is little data on the safety and blood levels of 25OHD and calcium after prolonged daily intake of amounts of vitamin D in this range. In this report, one subject took increasing daily doses of vitamin D3 for 6 years starting in April 2009: 6500 IU for 6 months; increasing to 10,000 IU for 13 months; 20,000 IU for 24 months; 40,000 IU for 12 months; 50,000 IU for 10 months, and 60,000 IU since October 2014. 25OHD blood levels were 28, 81, 204, 216, 225, 166, and 218ng/ml. Subject 2 began 10,000 IU in Nov 2011, increased to 20,000 IU in Feb 2014, 25,000 IU in June 2014, and 30,000 IU in Oct 2014, and then decreased to 20,000 IU in June 2015. 25OHD blood levels were 96.6, 161.1 and 106.9ng/ml. He reported marked clinical improvement in his asthma. Subject 3 started on daily 10,000 IU in Sept 2013, increasing to 20,000 IU on Nov 2013. 25OHD blood levels were 31.4, 102, 164, 148, and 143ng/ml. No one developed hypercalcemia or any adverse events. The major finding of this case series is prolonged daily dosing of vitamin D3 with doses of 10,000 to 60,000 IU was safely tolerated. "
The lab report that received yesterday is calling 30-96 ng/ml as the range for D levels.2 -
This morning I Googled magnesium vit d3 paradox and read for a few hours. Many links talked about K2. Some are thinking Vit D3 toxicity is just a side effect of Vit K2 deficiency not of D3 itself. K2 is thought to decrease risk of a cytokine response and if that is the case may be helpful in the case of COVID-19 side effects that is cytokine storm related. Many health problems and premature death cases seem to relate back to a magnesium deficiency since the level in the blood tells nothing of the level in the muscles and bone.0
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I think all the fat soluble vitamins are very important and should be balanced as much as possible. I’ve heard d3 is good to take to fight covid19 so I wouldn’t be surprised if the rest of the fat soluble vitamins might help. I’ve just heard that magnesium oil on the soles of the feet are a good transdermal way of getting your magnesium. I tell my family to use mineral drops also since they have 250 mg magnesium per 40 drops.2
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TheDevastator wrote: »So you take 50,000 iu d3 a day and 500 mcg mk-7 k2? I took 10,000 iu d3 and 100 mcg mk-7 k2 today. I might go up to 15,000 iu a day.
Don't forget vitamin E, it's the antagonist of Vitamin K and helps stop abnormal clotting. I'm taking 1600 iu of alpha tocopherol and one pill of mixed tocotrienols but I was getting chest pains, so this is a high dose.
Vitamin A or retinol is also important for hormones like testosterone but I get it from foods not supplements since it's synthetic. I eat liver and eggs and get over 100% rda almost every day.
Have you looked into borax for arthritis? I take 1/4 teaspoon in a quart of water (recommended men's dose) about 3 times a week for many benefits since I don't have arthritis much yet.
The Borax Conspiracy
@TheDevastator your "The Borax Conspiracy" link contains specific info I have been wondering about for years. Actually I may have read some of that even here in pro Boron post but just did not know enough at the time to know what I did not know but wanted to know.
If someone reads your link and just do not get any value out of it I suggest they save the link at least. I like to be in Google when reading something like this so I can highlight words and right click to get the meaning.
I now have some 3mg boron capsules the way. Thanks for sharing.
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